Just sad

[Lorien]

An old friend called last night, obviously distraught. His wife had been e-mailing her best friend of 20+ years (we'll call her Jane) earlier yesterday when the economy came up in conversation (friend and wife have been unemployed and looking everywhere for work for 19 months). Wife typed something about how things would improve after the election, when the current misadministration would be voted out of office. Jane wrote back "well, if that's how you really feel, then why don't you just join Al-Qaeda? If you are going to keep hating America, then don't ever contact me again!"

All of us are just floored. I'm acquainted with Jane, and I always took it for granted that she's a Dem. She's a university English professor working for a very liberal college. She isn't fundamentalist Christian, if fact, I would call her "New Age". She loves animals, shops for her groceries at Whole Foods market, has a good grasp of history...none of it ads up! I know that she's always avoided political discussions with her mostly liberal friends, but NO ONE would have guessed she's a closeted Freeper. My friend's wife has been avoiding politics since Bush* stole the Presidency, just because it depresses her too much to talk about it. But with what has been happening in Iraq, plus the economy and jobs market here at home, she has found it much harder to remain entirely silent. What's most distressing to all of us is that Jane would chose Bush* over her closest friend of 20+ years! What could lead ANYONE to be THAT committed to that pathetic, criminal failure in office? She and her friend had just taken a road trip last weekend and had a wonderful time, and now this??!

The only conclusion I can come to is that RummIsFrosted was right. He/she wrote a comment the other day that stated that conservatives are members of a cult, and posted this definition from another site:
Definition of a Cult

Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following 5 characteristics:

1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society

3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma

4. It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds
recruit people

5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society

It seems we are just as divided as a Nation now as we were during Vietnam and the Civil War, maybe even more so. For the first time in our history we have media monopolies that all march to the same drummer. We also are more conservative as a Nation than at any time in our history (according to two guests on Bill Moyer’s “Now” last night, one of whom, a Brit, said that America is so Right wing to EU countries that even the Tories see Kerry as “their kind of conservative”, while they see Bush* as “just scary”.)
And now the Freeper types are behaving like cult members who would sacrifice anything for their leader, including their closest friends! Jane doesn’t even have any family left, except a brother she rarely sees, so it makes her sacrifice even more confounding. My friend’s wife still hasn’t decided how she’ll respond. She’s extremely upset right now, so she needs some time to gather her thoughts. I’m certain that I couldn’t continue a friendship with such a person. It's just sad. :-(

[against all enemies]

1. Tell the woman she is an idiot and an asshole.

But be sure to use proper grammar.

[qanda]

2. Wow! That is sad...

It's hard to imagine how someone could be so irrational until I listen to the callers on CSPAN in the morning. I think whoever said it's a cult is right on track.

[mopaul]

3. i've lost several friends over this crap

i just don't appreciate being screamed at by a rightwinger as much as i used to. i'm an asshole, but i try to be friendly when possible. i had a dear friend calling me up to scream at me and call me an idiot liberal and i just couldn't take it anymore after months and months.

told him where to get off and that was it. i won't answer his phone calls or emails. too bad. but i'm fed up with rush limbaugh and his devotees.

[Lorien]

5. I'm about at the same point myself

I have another friend who somehow manages to continue his friendships with the conservatives in his circle. Recently one of those friend's said something to the effect of "all the liberals want to do with terrorists is hold their hands and sing "Kumbaya" to them" my friend said "but I'M a liberal, and YOU KNOW how I feel about terrorists!" she answered "Oh, you're not really a Liberal, you're just a left Democrat". :wtf:

[Iris]

28. you mean this "friend" actually called you for the sole purpose

of screaming at you because you are a liberal? Was he just trying to find some liberal, any liberal, to scream at? I can't even imagine the nerve of someone doing something like this!

Maybe that's what happens when you drink to much PBR while listening to Hannity, Limbaugh, Boortz, etc.

[SheilaT]

40. mopaul, you are NOT

an asshole.

[NJCher]

4. maybe a cult with psychological predisposition

I saw the comments on Moyers last night, too. Very revealing about how far out of touch with the world our country is. The Europeans think Howard Dean is too far right!

Anyway, I would add this to your assessment. I read where conservatives have punishing parents. They like the father image, authoritarian bit. It would be interesting to see if the Whole Foods shopper had a parent like that.

I have a friend like that, or had, I should say. She appeared left in every way but was strongly oriented to punishing types, like death penalty-talking repukes. Finally she decided to move to Texas; isn't that hilarious!? Right where she should be.

I hardly ever talk to her anymore; in fact haven't in years and I wont' because I know I'd just hear the same kinda' crap from her that your friend heard.

So, yes, cultish combined with a psychological predisposition to be punished. These people must like being stolen from. Well, goody for them because we're very shortly about to find out we're flat-assed broke, thanks to these thieves.


Cher

[chookie]

11. A journey of 360 degrees

A guy who was a friend for many years started to go nuts during the Clinton adminstration. He was so nuts that I couldn't stand talking to him. It's one thing to attack the substance of Clinton's policies, but it is quite another to be foaming at the mouth about Clinton sending state troopers out to kidnap schoolgirls for him to rape.

He too moved to Texas! Of all places to end up, he worked for that sleazy funeral corporation (SCI -- remember them?) there that was caught providing very poor service, to put it mildly -- botching embalmings, dumping corpses in ditches etc. Back in 2001 I asked him if he knew that George W was a stockholder in his company, and he said no, but it made him proud! He had a girlfriend who had just lost her job at Enron. When I asked her if she was aware of Ken Lay's ties to George W, she said, well, I guess no one is all bad, and that it made her think better of the guy. Bizarre!!

He has since rethought the whole George W thing, and last time I saw him, he was deeply regretful about having been stupid enough to fall for Bush lies, and to buy into the whole NeoCon program. He now feels like a total "space alien" in Texas, and broke up with the woman,who is still a George W worshipper. Bizarre.

[SmokingJacket]

45. Could it be Limbaugh?

My total RightWingNut father actually voted for Clinton in 1992. He was a normal guy until about... hm.. 1995. Then he went nuts. I could still talk to him, kind of, but not since Bush was elected. He harbors an absolutely irrational hatred for Hilary Clinton, among other symptoms.

Didn't Rush Limbaugh get rolling around 1995? Could his show be responsible for so many people going around the bend? Like a Jim Jones of talk radio?

[Lorien]

12. I didn't think about the "punishment" issue. Wow!

Jane's parent's were really abusive types, too (they both passed away within the last five years). I never made the connection, but most of the people I've known who are Freeper types have come from very disfunctional families. One even had parents that would starve her for days on end.

And yeah, that Swedish volunteer for Dean said Dean was really Right Wing. I'm surprised he wasn't working for Kucinich (who probably isn't at all radically left in the EU)>

[Iris]

22. Here's more

I got this from this discussion group, but I'm sorry I don't know who posted it. I kept it because it is just like my family.

Most of it doesn't sound like it relates directly to your friend's friend, but maybe deep down. I had to unearth a lot of these tendencies from my own thinking - many of which I would have denied having until I finally realized how stifling they were to me and how much they impacted my life and the choices I make.

There's also the tendency to think in "black and white"/"all right or all wrong" patterns, which really blows my mind about the woman you are telling us about. How can you be an English teacher and think like this? It would make my head explode. The "black and white" thinking might be addressed at website whose address is at the end of this piece:


Authoritarian Personality
 
excessive conformity

submissiveness to authority

intolerance

insecurity

superstition

rigid, stereotyped thought patterns
 
 
Notes:
Adorno identified the authoritarian personality type as having these characteristics.
The authoritarian personality does not want to give orders; their personality type wants to take orders. People with this type of personality seek conformity, security, stability. They become anxious and insecure when events or circumstances upset their previously existing world view. They are very intolerant of any divergence from what they consider to be the normal (which is usually conceptualized in terms of their religion, race, history, nationality, culture, language, etc.) They tend to be very superstitious and lend credence to folktales or interpretations of history that fit their preexisting definitions of reality (thus the Founding Fathers of the US are conceptualized of as supporters of white nationalism.) They think in extremely stereotyped ways about minorities, women, homosexuals, etc. They are thus very dualistic- the world is conceived in terms of absolute right (their way) vs. absolute wrong (the "other" whether African American, liberal, intellectual, feminist, etc.)

http://www.gossamer-wings.com/soc/Notes/race/index.htm

[Arianrhod]

6. I also saw a friend turn that way.

We weren't close, although our daughters used to play together and I have been to their house for dinner. We used to join in argument against a mutual Republican friend. But after 9-11, she just went ballistic, and began yelling about "killing all the dirty Arabs", and how Islam is "such a repressive religion", etc etc--all the freeper crap. It saddened me to see it, and I no longer have anything to do with her.

I refuse to be friends with people whom I consider to be destroying not only our country, but the world itself, with their inhuman, solipsistic hatred.

[Iris]

15. I completely agree with you. It's become like a moral issue to me.

"I refuse to be friends with people whom I consider to be destroying not only our country, but the world itself, with their inhuman, solipsistic hatred."

It really is about what kind of society you want your children to grow up in. I just become so depressed thinking about the current blame the victim, look out for #1 attitudes most people have. "So my SUV can drive over the car in front of me, killing all occupants? That's ok! I can afford the gas and at least my children are 'safe'". (Yeah, until they watch YOU die in a rollover because you are taller than they are, but, hey, for the most part your "safe".)

Yesterday on NPR I heard a report on school vouchers and the reporter said this is supported by people who want religious education for their children, want a chance to get the best education possible for their children or those who "simply don't believe in 'government sponsored education'"! I mean how can one honestly believe THAT is the kind of society we should be living in!

Every once in a while researchers come up with a monetary total for raising one child. It's usually something like $100,000 over 18 years. If you added in private school tuition and 4 years of college (or some other post-h.s. training), you'd have to add another $300,000 (at least!) to that total!

And I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the problem of homelessness and how we treat the poor in general in this country.

[Arianrhod]

55. It's no longer politics as usual.

We no longer have the luxury of approaching an election with the attitude of choosing the lesser of two basically equivalent evils. The "neo"Cons have demonstrated that they want nothing less than to preside dictatorially over a rights-free feudal state. We are, literally, now in a struggle to save our country from collapse.

One thing to remember, though, is that it will take more than a simple Kerry presidency to do this. Many, many changes need to be made, and this will take time, effort and sacrifice--all the things Americans currently hate. Hard to believe our country was founded by men and women who believed in diligent manual labor, eschewing luxuries, and genuinely felt (if a bit misguided) moral principles. All we seem to want now is sex, beer, and the NFL. Meanwhile, our children are growing up in one of the most violent societies that ever existed, unguided by parents who are too busy chasing money to pay attention to them.

November is the first step in a very long journey. My only fear is that those in power will not allow us to take that step. I think we are facing the most dangerous time in my life.

[Iris]

59. You are not alone in your thinking

I am continually distrubed by the treatment of children as just another possession obtained on one's way "up the ladder." One seemingly benign result of this are those inane birthday parties for 1 years olds that are basically about showing of the child and creating contrived "photo ops" of the child eating cake. (And, in the case of my niece, eating sugary, fat-ladden cake in one hand and holding a Barbie doll in the other!)

[Arianrhod]

60. Yes, the big parties for children who don't even know what's

going on, and who won't remember a single thing about them. That obviously is more for the parent than the child.

And of course, the concept of "children as possessions" is yet another throwback to the "good old days" the Cons want to take us back to. Where the male of the household was all that mattered, and the family was just something used to make him "respectable" and "promotable".

Sick.

[JohnnyRingo]

7. I've narrowed it down....

....To two things: Tap water and AM radio.
The fluoride apparently makes one suceptable to the high pitched background noise and leads one to believe whatever they hear.
Of course I'm kidding, but Hate radio is a common denominator among my close friends that are loyal to the current admin.

[chookie]

8. Bizarre

Let's see -- if you express concerns about the American economy, you are a terrorist sympathethizer?

You mention that she is many respects fits the "liberal" profile. Question: did she have a "Dennis Miller" moment on Sept 11? Was she so freaked out by events that she finds security in absolutism?

It's kind of weird. Although much of this talk is Brownshirt intimidation, much of it resembles childish "magical thinking" -- that if you recite mantras like "I am behind our President", that you will protect your country from harm.

This stuff has strained friendships of mine, as well. One of my very dearest friends was swayed to The Dark Side. I just don't discuss stuff with him, not openly. When he gets all crazy about the "liberal media," and how White Men are an Endangered Species, I will just respond with, "Yeah, the country is really polarized." If he'd ever push it, I would respond by saying, "Gee, Russ, if you and I, such old friends, can't talk about this tuff, what hope is there for our country to go forward?" I think this is the best way to deal with a person locked into this mindset -- to give them something indirect to think about....

[Lorien]

17. Yes, I think there was a "Miller" moment

that happened after 9/11. My friend's sister, also a liberal, went through the same thing. She now talks about "killing all the Arabs" and still won't fly on commercial aircraft-but at least she hasen't been overcome by * worship.

[salin]

9. Sometimes the only way to jolt people out of this kneejerk frame of

reference, and get them to think again... is to calmly get them to explain where that came from...

for example... as response...

Jane,

Wow, that was a pretty strong and unexpected response. In all of our years it seemed okay that we sometimes have different viewpoints on issues. Rather than disagree with me about the effect of the election on the economic outlook for the country, you suddenly call me a terrorist? I am really upset. Look, have I, over the years, really come across as a terrorist to you? Or do you only feel this way because we disagree about who to vote for, for president?

I respect you, and your opinions, to try to figure from where that very serious accusation came. Do you really think that I should be reported to the Department of Justice as a possible terrorist because I disagree with the president's handling of the economy? Does that mean, by extension, that we should lock up the half of the population that currently favors John Kerry for president? Does this really make any sense? As much as I disagree with the policies being promoted by George Bush, I do not think that his supporters should be locked up. That, seems rather contrary to our democratic system. It also seems to be a funny sentiment for those who assert that the reason we have currently sent our young people to fight in Iraq is to protect our freedom. If we are coming to a point where people are not supposed to voice their opinion, nor vote their opinion, then what freedoms, exactly, are these young US troops supposedly fighting for in Iraq?

Is it possible for us to have a disagreement about politics without throwing invectives at one another? I would think, in the name of our long friendship and association, that even if the folks on television, on the radio, and in Congress can no longer speak (and disagree) on civil terms, that we are made of stronger metal - as our long friendship has demonstrated. I am hoping that we can once again find that level of conversation in our friendship. Call me an optimist...


----------
Point being - reflect back how extreme her remarks were and what they implied personally to the wife - and about "freedoms" - then move back - not to disrespect her opinions - but to a point of ... isn't our friendship strong enough to have civil discussion????.... If this can open the door (now or later) - then the trick is to work to have a conversation in very, very civil terms - even when the content (eg Faith in bushes unending tax cuts... responding with "This policy concerns me because there seems to be no attention to what the long-term costs will be - how these things will be paid for" ... rather than "These fools are going to push us into bankruptcy and throw the elderly, the poor, and some of the middle class into the homeless class!")

I have to do that with my brother - and have at least gotten him to see that some of his assumptions are absurd. It is hard work - but if it gets some folks - over the long haul - to start thinking again, it is worth the investment.

or a response will come back that will be equally hostile - and then one knows it is time to just hang it up with this person. Those who chose to fully throw in their lot with those pushing a militaristic hate campaign against other americans... are a lost cause. No better than the racists who blew people up to stop the civil rights movement.

Personally I think so many things are so bad - and some who have bought into the neocon game are so desperate to believe in it - because to do otherwise is so horrible to comprehend in the sense of reconciling it with this noble vision of our country and our leaders - that they are in the last throes of extreme and hostile cognitive disonance and are striking out wildly in order to hold onto the last shreds of their belief system.

Oh - if one wants to throw oil on the fire, one could ask Jane if she supported the guy arrested in New Jersey with explosives who had the intent of blowing up 1,500 or more US citizens at a democratic presidential caucus meeting - since her rhetoric mirrors his.

[Lorien]

24. That's an excellent response

I think I'll pass some of those ideas along. You're right, using very civil terms CAN work with these types if one is patient enough. I convinced a lifelong repug to vote for Gore in 2000 with the same approach (she was my boss-so I had to be very careful).

Your last paragraph is also an excellent point. I'm keeping that one for my own arsenal as well!

[bobthedrummer]

10. It is as deep as the most basic human drives and perceptions

but our perceptions are being manipulated-that's mind control in the 21st Century kids.

Dennis Kucinich mentioned mind control in the original language of HR2977 The Space Preservation Act of 2001-but all "exotic weapons" text had disappeared from the revision, HR3616 The Space Preservation Act of 2002.
http://www.raven1.net/govptron.htm

Now in whose hands should this tech be, politically speaking?

[msmcghee]

13. When people feel danger from uncontrollable threats . . .

. . it's common to seek emotional security in a rigid, unforgiving world-view. The memes that make up that world-view are very protective of each other (self supporting). They are also lethal to competing memes - or any idea that could cast doubt on their validity.

They make their carrier attack and kill competing ideas and their carriers. And I mean literally. That's why there have always been religious wars.

We live in dangerous times. Many of those insecure folks who seek that rigid world-view (the US RW these days) are ready to physically attack and kill liberals. Simply writing off an old friend is a mild form of attack. It could get much worse.

They are using the rhetoric of violence already. All they need is some suggestion of permission from some authority.

If there's a big anti-war demonstration at the RNC convention, it's not inconceivable that planted RW agitators will set off fire crackers or something like that and some nervous cop on uppers will shoot their gun into the crowd, injuring or perhaps killing someone. At that point, the * administration will blame liberals for attacking the police and that's all the RW thugs will need.

I don't think this is at all far-fetched and we should be ready for it. These assholes are not going to give up their power quietly.

[msmcghee]

16. I kind of got out in space . .

. . in that reply. What I really wanted to say more clearly was - I don't think she's capable of seeing the value of your (our) POV.

She's drunk enough of the RW kool-aid that she's fallen into the world-view that she believes will protect her from the terrorists. A world-view that sees you as an enemy.

I'd just reply that you're sorry she feels that way - and get on with your life without her. Some day she may realize what she has lost and ask for forgiveness.

Fingers crossed!

:eyes:

[JohnnyRingo]

19. Very wise observation, MSM

I don't think the viewpoint in our country is going to move back to the center as quickly as it shifted to the right after 9/11, but I'm hopeful that with rational leadership in the WhiteHouse we may see a return to the day when the "kill first" crowd is, once again, marginalised.
Thanx for giving me a clear perspective.

[msmcghee]

23. We can be hopeful.

But if history is any guide, once these things start they seem to have to burn themselves out in violence. Rigid, unforgiving world-views create their own positive feedback - they fuel their own fire.

It's hard to reason with someone who is shooting at you.

That's why I say - hope for the best but be ready for the worst.

And, welcome to DU. :toast:

[Lorien]

35. I don't think it's far fetched either

we've seen it before (Kent State), but back then the media was more independent, so National outrage stopped events from escalating. It's VERY disturbing to see an old friend suddenly taken over by some pod creature. When my friend told me about this, I kept saying "Jane MUST have been joking-she HAD to be" even though it didn't sound at all like her kind of joke. But then I thought about my old friend Barry, whom I've been close to for 15 years. We never spoke about politics either, until the 2000 election. I knew he was very concerned about the environment, so I mentioned my concerns about ANWR if Bush* got into office. His eyes suddenly lit up with this crazed, Ann Coulter type hate, and he hissed "That's a LIE!! A Liberal LIE!! Bush would NEVER go after ANWR"!! I was stunned. How could he be so misguided about the Republican agenda? He had never shown any anger towards me in the past, and there he was, just seething with hatred! It was as if Barry evaporated, and this hate crazed creature took his place. I changed the topic quickly (I was completely rattled) and we never spoke of politics again.

[Jim__]

14. Question: Do you know what the the wife actually said?

The key to understanding "Jane's" reactions is what did the wife actually say in: Wife typed something about how things would improve after the election, when the current misadministration would be voted out of office.

Based on the description above of what the wife said, the reactions seems to border on the psychotic. But, if what the wife said was a serious attack on Bush; then Jane's reaction might be understandable.

Personally, I think Bush is the biggest disaster that's ever hit this country. But when I'm talking to people that I know or suspect may have voted for him in 2000, I tone down my rhetoric. I don't think you win people over if you begin by insulting them ( in this case, it doesn't sound like the wife even suspected that Jane was Bushie). I'd really like to see this country united in its opposition to Bush.

[msmcghee]

20. These times are a perfect illustration of . .

. . why wars start.

Once one side figures they don't have to hold respect for the other (as in a democracy) then the only path left is a downward spiral into violence.

It's like trying to reason with a drunk. It can't be done.

[Lorien]

27. She wrote in very mild, general terms

though she is capable of vicious attacks herself, this wasn't one of those times when she dished one out. She wasn't trying to get into a political debate,but was just making a general comment about hope for the future.

[msmcghee]

29. Agreed

That's why it's like trying to reason with a drunk.

B-)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

21. Oh, my. Yes, that darned liberal media strikes again.

[Iris]

25. Can you give some examples of those policies?

[Lorien]

33. You've obviously "bought" a lot that's questionable

so why bother with an honesty?

[Lorien]

53. Dang

there wasn't supposed to be an "an" in that sentence. I wish this edit function lasted a little longer!

[doni_georgia]

38. Outting yourself rather early aren't you???

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Gone after only three posts

Those Mods are quick on the draw.

[Room101]

26. Call her a Fascist or NAZI= be blunt

You know the whole rap...

[troublemaker]

30. Could she have been kidding?

Was there subsequent discussion? If not... well, the language you've quoted sounds as much like parody as reality (I know they have become the same thing, but still)

[Iris]

31. I had that thought as well. n/t

[Lorien]

32. That was my first question to them

no, she wasn't kidding. :-(

[barbaraann]

34. My RW brother would let them torture me.

I talked with him last night and what he was saying has been sinking in. He basically agrees with everything Ann Coulter says.

When he started talking about politics he just really lost it and the only word I can use to describe his rant is insane. He thinks anyone who opposes Bush is guilty of treason and he doesn't think there was enough torture at Abu Ghraib. He is not unintelligent and considers himself a Christian.

He says that all of the Republicans he knows are fired up to fight the liberals because of our irrational hated of Bush.

Yes, he would strip me naked, do obscene things, inflict great pain and watch me die. He would probably also torture my son to hurt me even more.

My own brother. Somehow they took over his mind and his soul.

[Lorien]

36. That's scary as hell

I don't doubt you for a minute. I really think Rummyisfrosted was right in calling it a cult. They have turned into Manson's disciples, ready to kill on command. They don't give a f*ck about America (otherwise, they would be fighting the Patriot act, among other un-American actions this MisAdministration has taken). No, their ONLY allegiance is to the Neo-Cons. Bush is their Divine Master, not Jesus Christ. :scared:

[barbaraann]

37. Yes, and most of them have weapons.

While most of us don't.

[Sapphocrat]

42. Have you checked for any suspicious...

...pod-like plants in his backyard?

That's sad, frightening, and sickening.

And I have a cousin who (although he might balk at the idea of my being tortured, only because he loves my mother) sounds just like him.

My condolences. Sincerely. :(

[barbaraann]

44. Thanks for the kind words.

I think it was the radio in his car that did it, not pod plants. :-) It might have been the years of bible study, too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. Ask him, "Who would Jesus torture?"

and "Is George W. Bush the second coming of Christ, born without sin and error, to be obeyed without question as if he were the voice of God himself? Is that what you're saying? Because if you believe that he's a sinful human being just like yourself, then you're advocating idolatry."

Approach them in their own language. You may not convince them, but their heads will explode.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

39. The "Friends Lost to Bush" Support Group

I bet it has a huge membership!

I lost a "good" friend of 14 years AND a "good" friend of 10 years as well to the conservative "Christian Right". Over the same email!

They emailed me one of those "forward to everyone you know" emails about the Pledge of Allegiance and the "under God" line. I'm sure some of you have seen this one. It basically says that we were a country based on Christianity and that those who disagree with the idea that children should be forced to pledge "Allegiance" should sit down and shut up! They were Un-American, Un-Patriotic, yadda yadda, yadda. Then it said to agree and forward it to everyone or delete.

I kept getting 20+ emails a month from them spouting on about Bush and conservative "values". Prayer email etc from them. They both were keenly aware of my belief system (not conventional) but still kept sending me that crap. I had had it. I simply replied to the email with DELETED in the subject line. Wow! You wouldn't believe the emails I got from them. One of them even criticized me for using "big" words to intimidate her! That was when I had realized that I had long since "outgrown" them, and came face to face with the fact that we were much too different to be friends any longer. I wished one of them well (he he) and the best in life. I put the other on my Spam list so I would receive no more from her. She intentionally sent me even more crap! I guess she's still doing it, although I'm not getting it. I got a "reply to all" email that slipped through my filter and it was about her writing to her congresswoman in Indianapolis about why she won't support Bush* in his effort for the constitutional amendment against gay marriage. Figures, that's about right for her.

[mitchum]

41. Are you sure that Jane wasn't just being sarcastic or ironic?

Her response seems too comically knee jerk and cliched to be anything other than that.

[donco6]

43. True.

She's either kidding or crazy. I can't think of any other option.

[Lorien]

49. As I posted elsewhere in this thread, that was my first reaction too

sadly, her over-the-top response wasn't a joke. I truly wish that it had been.

[DaveSZ]

50. It is like a cult

The Fundie preachers and RW talk radio hosts use propaganda and a persecution complex to keep their cattle in line.

Independent thought, asking questions, and critical thinking are frowned upon.

[spanone]

48. Educate her.

[Iris]

51. How do you educate the willfully ignorant?

[Th1onein]

52. It IS sad; but you have to remember that it is just a product of the times

After all; we let the Repubs spend six years "Hunting the President." That had to make a difference in many people's perceptions......

Give it some time.

[Jim Warren]

54. timely thread

what with the long holiday weekend and the fact my rw, limbaugh loving brother-in-law just left with my sister. my sister is cool but he fits the cult profile. thanks, lots of heartfelt responses here on this touchy but important issue, gonna bookmark this one to mull over some more.

[Oddman]

56. Blind patriotism is very, very dangerous . . .

I remember asking a bush supporter why she was supporting bush. "Because of his strong leadership" she replied. So I asked her what was strong about it and she hemmed and hawed and she couldn't answer a simple question like that.

[coda]

57. Is Jane sure who e-mailed her?

Just a thought, anyway.

If you are going to keep hating America, then don't ever contact me again!"

So if "Jane" doesn't respond, she's going to keep hating her country right? :eyes:

No doubt she has to respond to that.

Ask her if it's love for country or love of political power, that an administration would out a CIA agent(Plame), thus outing all her contacts that worked in the field of WMDs. Did that help America or terrorists?


She needs to send Zinni's speech from the other day. He went into great detail as to why he thinks the Bush administration is making things worse. Ask her if she thinks the Vietnam vet and former CENTCOM commander hates his country.

It isn't just Zinni either, there are plenty of sources, especially former Administration officials who have served this country for decades.


I agree with spanone. Educate her.

[shimmergal]

58. She should tell Jane she doesn't let anyone impugn her patriotism, then

ask her why Bush is giving Bin Laden everything he's wanted: U.S. troops out of Saudi Arabia, thousands of new recruits for Al Queda, a weakened U.S. military and on and on.....

[Lorien]

61. I gave them very similar advice myself

I told them I had countless pages of reliable information that I could e-mail them refuting the whole notion that BushCo is "Pro-America", but the first thing they really need to decide is if the relationship is worth salvaging. Jane basically said that honoring Bush* was more important to her than her best friend, and that's a tough thing to get past (especially when her best friend absolutely despises the man). The wife also comes from a military family, so she is understandably infuriated with being accused of "hating America". The total lack of reason and logic in Jane's outburst is troubling beyond the hurt it's caused her two friends; there's a fundamental change in Jane that's happened here that's at odds with the rest of her character. It's as if she's in the grip of a psychotic episode, and one that seems to be capable of spreading throughout the country (from some of the responses here).

Yes, I think these GOP "cult members" do love their parties power far more than they love their country, because they seem to have forgotten what made America "America". The Constitution, the bill of Rights...they support the second amendment, but would obviously like to be rid of the first (as a right for at least half the country). I don't think any of us can afford to be silent with these people any longer; we need to drag them back into the light, somehow.