Rape, pregnancy, and honor killing. An abortion hater's dilemna.

[peacetalksforall]

"In November last year, Swadi visited a woman detainee at a US military base at al-Kharkh, a former police compound in Baghdad. "She was the only woman who would talk about her case. She was crying. She told us she had been raped," Swadi says. "Several American soldiers had raped her. She had tried to fight them off and they had hurt her arm. She showed us the stitches. She told us, 'We have daughters and husbands. For God's sake don't tell anyone about this.'"

"Taguba discovered that guards have also videotaped and photographed naked female detainees. The Bush administration has refused to release other photographs of Iraqi women forced at gunpoint to bare their breasts (although it has shown them to Congress) - ostensibly to prevent attacks on US soldiers in Iraq, but in reality, one suspects, to prevent further domestic embarrassment.

Earlier this month it emerged that an Iraqi woman in her 70s had been harnessed and ridden like a donkey at Abu Ghraib and another coalition detention centre after being arrested last July. Labour MP Ann Clwyd, who investigated the case and found it to be true, said, "She was held for about six weeks without charge. During that time she was insulted and told she was a donkey."

"

"In Iraq, the existence of photographs of women detainees being abused has provoked revulsion and outrage, but little surprise. Some of the women involved may since have disappeared, according to human rights activists. Professor Huda Shaker al-Nuaimi, a political scientist at Baghdad University who is researching the subject for Amnesty International, says she thinks "Noor" is now dead. "We believe she was raped and that she was pregnant by a US guard. After her release from Abu Ghraib, I went to her house. The neighbours said her family had moved away. I believe she has been killed."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/052304C.shtml

Excuse my utter cynical question - do pro-life radicals favor delivery in the case of rape of an Iraqi prisoner by a U.S. guard? And how do they feel that the baby wasn't carried to birth because her family killed her? Course, most radicals will avoid answering by saying it couldn't be true.

[baldguy]

1. It's getting harder and harder to "support the troops".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I am pro choice

But I have heard that women detainees at Abu Ghraib asked that rockets be sent to kill them because they had been dishonored. That families may have killed women family members who were raped is sad, but it is culture and not Qur'an. Qur'an says to punish the perpetrator, not the victim.

I think that any serviceman found guilty of rape should do hard time, and be branded a sex offender. My worry is that these rapists will go unpunished-and come home to do the same thing here.

[peacetalksforall]

5. Your statement has me thinking...

"My worry is that these rapists will go unpunished-and come home to do the same thing here."

And if not doing the same thing, how many are going to come back with a feeling of total betrayal? Not only have they been betrayed by the military brass - by feeling free to torture and humiliate and then having the regulation rug pulled out from under them and being branded forever, but they could turn all that betrayal on the public. Darn, I never put myself in their shoes in regard to their betrayal. They acted stupidly and criminally and they thought it was OK? We felt betrayed by all by the military, but perhaps their betrayal is even more devestating. I can't believe I'm saying this or thinking this. I believe in top down investigation and condemnation, if proved, and I felt the usual contempt for animal behavior, but they have an extra special dilemna? We are contaminated forever and still no one is talking peace.

War is hell. Why do we keep going to hell?

[eleonora]

3. Inverse it

What if an iraqi had raped a female US soldier?

"Ack, she's going to give birth to one of those raping brown towel heads! What to do Lordy, what to do?"


-pukes-

[acmavm]

4. This is just the repuke mentality, period. If they can't find the men,

take the women or the children. If by some chance the women are raped while incarcerated, well them's the breaks. And if a child is conceived, and the woman is killed, well you know it's not the fault of the Americans who committed the rape, it's the Iraqi womans fault for being an Iraqi. And if she's murdered by her family because of some crazed theory of 'honor', who cares? She's just an Iraqi.

It's "the chick got in the way" school of thought.

[pop goes the weasel]

6. I'll answer on behalf of those anti-choicers I've known

"Yes, we oppose abortion even in cases of rape. Even in cases of threat to the life of the mother. Even if the mother is herself a child barely pubescent. After all, you have to think of the widdlebiddleunbornkiddle. It's completely innocent. Unlike menstruating women, who are evil and caused Adam to sin. Besides, it is woman's lot in life. Women aren't supposed to challenge the position into which Gad has placed them. They are to accept whatever is done to them meekly, with a spirit of brokeness, even rape, even honor-killing."

That was the crap I was brought up with, so I feel pretty confident I got the disgusting spiel right.

[gula]

8. Holy sh*t, how long ago was that?

[pop goes the weasel]

9. late baby-boom

1960s and 1970s. I wish I could say that those were the bad old days, but I have met too many people who still express those sentiments.

[Cleita]

12. Boy that's truth. I thought we had shaken that type of ignorance, by

now, but lo and behold, it's not only still with us, it's getting worse.

[dsc]

14. Baldly false

Poll after poll after poll show you to be 180 degrees wrong.

Here is one poll the link will lead to several.

"Now I am going to read some specific situations under which an abortion might be considered. For each one, please say whether you think abortion should be legal in that situation, or illegal. How about ?"

Legal Illegal Depends
(vol.) No
Opinion


%
%
%
%



"When the woman's life is endangered"

85
11
2
2
.

.


"When the woman's physical health is endangered"

77
17
4
2
.

.


"When the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest"
76
19
2
3
.

.


"When the woman's mental health is endangered"
63
32
3
2
.

.


"When there is evidence that the baby may be physically impaired"
56
37
4
3
.

.


"When there is evidence that the baby may be mentally impaired"
55
39
3
3
.

.


"When the woman or family cannot afford to raise the child"
35
61
2
2
.

.

"Thinking more generally: Do you think abortion should generally be legal or generally illegal during each of the following stages of pregnancy? How about ?"

Legal Illegal Depends
(vol.) No
Opinion


%
%
%
%



"In the first three months of pregnancy"
66
29
3
2
.

.


"In the second three months of pregnancy"

25
68
4
3
.

.


"In the last three months of pregnancy"

10
84
4
2
.

.

"Next, do you favor or oppose each of the following proposals. How about ?"
Favor Oppose No
Opinion


%
%
%




"A law requiring doctors to inform patients about alternatives to abortion before performing the procedure"

88
11
1
.
.

.
.


"A law requiring women seeking abortions to wait 24 hours before having the procedure done"
78
19
3
.
.

.
.


"A law requiring women under 18 to get parental consent for any abortion"

73
24
3
.
.

.
.


"A law requiring that the husband of a married woman be notified if she decides to have an abortion"
72
26
2
.
.

.
.


"A law which would make it illegal to perform a specific abortion procedure conducted in the last six months of pregnancy known as a 'partial-birth abortion,' except in cases necessary to save the life of the mother"

70
25
5
.
.

.
.


"A constitutional amendment to ban abortion in all circumstances, except when necessary to save the life of the mother"
38
59
3
.
.

.
.

"As you may know, in 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court announced a landmark decision on abortion known as Roe versus Wade. Do you think that decision was a good thing or a bad thing for the country?" Options were rotated
Good
Thing Bad
Thing No
Opinion


%
%
%




1/03
53
30
17

end of quote

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

It is clear from this poll and several others that at most 1/2 and almost certainly less than 1/2 of pro lifers believe that abortion ought to be illegal for life, health of mother, or for rape and incest. This took me one google search. To cite one example from this poll, 11% favor making abortion illegal in the case of life of the mother, while 32% favor that for mental health of the mother, and 37% favor doing so in case of physical problems with the child. A ratio of 1 to 3 and 1 to 4 respectively. Not the majority you falsely claim.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eric J in MN]

7. More on this subject, including how it violates the Geneva Convention

More on this subject, including how it violates the Geneva Convention to hold prisoners because of their relatives, is at:

MOVELEFT.COM
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_05_21_us_imprisons_innocent_wives_iraqi_insurgents.asp

[Alerter_]

10. Ask the Southern Baptist Convention to Clarify their position on

Homosexual rape and torture as a "interrogation technique" during wartime. I'd love to hear their answer.

[annak110]

11. "Pro-life" activists are not "pro-life" they are pro-control, they have

never shown themselves to be at all interested in saving the lives of living humans anywhere, especially female humans.

[Cleita]

13. Pro-lifers are anti-abortion, nothing more and nothing less.

Anytime someone says they are pro-life tell them to tell the truth, that they are anti-abortion and don't care much about life otherwise.