For conservatives, every war is World War II

[bluestateguy]

The Right often attacks the Left's anti-war faction, mocking it as full of aging ex-1960's hippies and misguided youth who want to have their own sixties. They attack anyone who calls the Iraq war a quagmire, and suggest that the critic is just trying to replay the Vietnam War era. They say that we say "every war is Vietnam". In fact, this is a persistent pattern of Conservative critique of the anti-war left for the last 20 years.

I say fine, but has anybody ever measured the pro-war, neo-con Right's stance in support of the war in Iraq the same way? These folks have suggested for the last 2 and a half years that 9/11 was just like Pearl Harbor, and as such, the United States was in the same position of moral superiority as it was on December 7, 1941. They fantasize of a domestic and geo-political universe where the United States is unquestionably in the position of moral righteousness, and to question that is nothing short of treason. They demand that the media essentially function as an official arm of the US military and foreign policymakers, and even the most ambiguous of critiques are smeared as a danger to the nation. They lust for a war where good and evil (and we know what that means) is unambiguous, even if it means the good guys sometimes have to do evil things to prevail. They fantasize of a world where the government is never questioned, Americans fly the flag and young children sing "God Bless America" in the schools like something out of a Norman Rockwell painting. They salivate over the militarization of American culture and picturesque images of demure young women tearfully seeing young men off to war at military bases. They say that the country is "at war" as if those two words are supposed to shut down all debate, all dialogue that might raise questions about the country's leadership. Finally, they frame the war in Iraq as somehow being a fight for the survival of the nation.

If we on the Left fantasize for it to be 1968 again, many on the Right are pretending like it's 1942.

[RobertSeattle]

1. I fthey want WWII

We should remind them that in WWII everyone sacrificed and just about every male was available to go to war. Tax rates were raised - the highest income tax bracket was something like 96% during the war. Corporate executives took war jobs for $1/year during the war.

[ComerPerro]

4. AMEN!!!!! And, I might add

That during WWII, our president didn't spend 84% of the time either fundraising or on vacation, as Bush does now.

That asshole wants to pretend he is at war and is a war president, maybe he should show up for work once in a while.

[OhioDem]

2. War Fantasies of the Neo-Conservatives

If saying that every war is Vietnam means every war is terrible, then every war IS Vietnam. Anyone who doesn't understand that is either a sociopath or a fool. Mark Twain (not a 1960s hippie) wrote the classic of American literature "The War Prayer" to help everyone achieve clarity about the true nature of war, and the consequences that ensue when people are convinced that it is moral.

All conservatives know, at least abstractly, that war is terrible.
The problem arises when there is an objective (land, oil, or any other form of resource) that can be obtained by war. Conservatives invoke World War II because it was very clear that our overall role in it was just. Our country and our allies were fighting against a militarily powerful and most virulant form of tyranny.

There ARE parallels to be drawn between then and now, but there are also fundamental differences. In WWII, our enemies were acting in concert, and were national governments with similar ideologies (fascism, NAZIism, etc.). Today we are involved in two conflicts, one against the Fundamentalist Islamist terrorists who attacked us, and another in Iraq, for which there has been a series of rationales each of which has collapsed.

The neo-conservative opinion makers know that continued support for our involvement in Iraq depends on the public conflating the two into a perception of one war. That is why Dick Cheney and others in the administration persist in implying that they are one, even though they will admit when pressed that they are not. Recent Bush campaign ads have this as a sub-text. They are ostensibly about Senator Kerry's voting record on weapns systems (which they misrepresent).
But they do not miss the opportunity to plant, yet again, the lie that the occupation of Iraq is part of the fight against terrorism.

There are terrorists operating in Iraq, NOW. They are able to be there because, after the invasion, no plan was implemented to administer the country consistently. They were too short-staffed to prevent wholesale looting and revenge attacks, because they were more worried about convincing the people to support the war than about how to actually run Iraq. When General Shinsecki said they needed more troops , they sacked him for contradicting the party line. Not to put too fine a point on it, but in the real WWII, who was notorious for overriding the wisdom of his military commanders?

They have changed course too many times and made both promises and threats they did not keep since occupying Iraq. World opinion of the US is at an all time low. They are putting Saddam's Baathists in charge of some stabilization operations. Torture photos(yes Mr. Rumsfeld, genital shock and dog bites DO count as torture) of prisoners are being used all over the arab and Islamic world to galvanize hatred of the US.

These two wars we are in now are unique. The fight against terrorism is comparable in some ways to WWII. We were attacked. Our opponents are ideological fanatics. We have however neither the quality of leadership nor the level of committment and willingness to make sacrifices that existed during WWII. Bush's response to September 11 could be summed up as "Go shopping and maintain the economy while we think of ways to use this for our own agenda in the region." Remember, they openly considered attacking Iraq before going into Afghanistan.

The Iraq War is beginning more and more to resemble the Vietnam
War- shifting rationales, ethical compromises with discredited factions, betrayal of different ethnic populations who have counted on us, moral atrocities, and a desperate search for an "exit strategy."

So, it seems that this is both WWII and Vietnam. But I'm very glad we had Roosevelt's New Dealers in WWII and not the current Nixonians.

[IrateCitizen]

3. The right loves America like a 3-year old loves their mommy

They are completely blind and ignorant to its faults. The left at least tries to love America like an adult -- pointing out its faults and trying to help it to change.

I think it was Al Franken that said this.

[ComerPerro]

5. ahh, if only that were true.

I honestly don't belive that hardcore right wingers love America at all. They seem to hate everything that America stands for. They say they love it, but for them being American is like being affiliated with a winning sports team.

How can they love America when they hate American ideals and Americans so much?