Goodbye Torture Scandal - Hello Beheading

[Mick Knox]

The torture scandal will become an asterisk to the beheading - perhaps instead of the other way around - and you can bet the news and the sheeple will quickly justify in their minds whatever was done to the prisoners. I think the torture scandal as important news came to an abrupt end today for most; I could be wrong.

[kalian]

1. Exactly....

something VERY strange about this whole thing.

[aquart]

7. What's strange about it? They didn't wait on us?

They went ahead and dealt with the torture scandal themselves?

"The evil you teach us we will imitate, and it shall go hard but we will better the instruction."

They don't care if it's on our front pages. It's been on THEIRS. WE don't matter a damn to them. They beheaded the captive because he was an American and they had been shamed by Americans. Actually, they were showing us how merciful and civilized they are. They just killed him.

It is RACIST to believe they can't act without prompting from the whities.

[kalian]

13. Maybe...maybe not.

The way that I see it, this beheading serves the administration
quite well. While the beheading IS tied into the torture issue,
the spin meisters will start stating 1) muslims are animals (they
hate Americans,etc.), 2) these people are "terrorists" (even though
they are defending their land against an occupier) and 3) the
beheading will eventually warp into "something else" and the
torture chamber story will be conveniently forgotten and thrown
down the memory hole...

Yes, there will be outrage in America against the beheading but
not in the manner that we here at DU understand it. It will be
the SAME REACTION to the deaths and mutilations of the four
mercenaries....

[CJCRANE]

50. Just saw a clip of John McCain

looking very shifty and saying some of those points you've mentioned.

[kalian]

52. And it will build with time....

the initial image is to create shock. Then the spin meisters will
start with the real deal.
Forget torture...look at how they hate us. :eyes:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. the Abu Ghairb torture CAUSED the be-heading of Berg and Boykin/Miller

Meyer, Rumsfeld and bush are to blame and the WORST is yet to come for any US soldiers or citizens captured ion Iraq because of their evil deeds in Abu Ghairb

bush is more dangerous and harmful to America than 500 Osamas could ever be....his incompetence is criminal...IMPEACH BUSH NOW before he kills us all!

[bushbegone04]

16. No

It wasn't the torture, it was the MEDIA'S SHOWING OF THE PHOTOS that caused this young man's beheading. Like I said in an earlier thread, an innocent man died for the bad behavior of a few brought to the surface by the media in a time of WAR. Whether you agree with the WAR or not, the media should have waited until after we pulled out of Iraq to show those photos. I agree they should have been made public, but not while our boys are still there. The media has put a collective bullseye on the back of every soldier there. What did we expect to happen? I saw it coming. And, it's a shame.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. NO bushco* put "the bullseye" on the back of every soldier in Iraq

Rummy/Meyers/Boykin/Miller/Papis/ they ARE RESPONSIBLE for ALL of this HORROR!...NOT the fucking press

and btw did you make a wrong turn back at the fork?

[bushbegone04]

24. I agree to an extent

But the media decided to fan the flames and I'm outraged. It's upsetting that they couldn't wait until we hand over Iraq on 6/30 to show the photos.. what is WRONG with them?

I mean, we're there and none of us like it at all. But the fact remains that our guys are THERE and now the media has made it worse for them.. Period. I can't beleive this is happening.

Where is YOUR outrage?

27. I have a feeling the Iraqis knew about the torture before

the photos got released.

The US presence as (in the view of the Iraqis) an occupying force is what cause the death of Americans, not the release of photos.

Iraqis didn't just now start killing Americans.

on edit: after June 30? there will still be a whole lot of soldiers there, so what's the difference about then?

[Karenina]

33. You have a feeling...

Can you imagine Iraqis being just like some of the characters in your own neighborhood? Can you imagine a neighbor who disappeared off the streets on his way to pick up some bread and milk at the grocery coming back and telling what happened to him?

35. I'm not sure I understand your point

My neighborhood is New York City at the moment, so in a literal sense, no I can't imagine it happening.

I do imagine that word of this kind of stuff leaks out though.

so yes I can imagine it.

or are you just being a smart a**?

[Karenina]

46. Yup, they don't call me

Auntie Smartass for no reason. :shrug:

49. I was all ready

to be pissed off and nasty, but with that kind of response I just have to have a sense of humor and laugh.:)

[daleo]

48. What does 6/30 have to do with it?

Bremer, Myers, Bush, et al were on record as saying troops would not be pulled on on June 30 anyway. There are plans to keep large numbers of U.S. troops in Iraq for years, probably decades if everything goes right for Bush. 6/30 is a straw man.

[RapidCreek]

54. If americans were not in Iraq Americans would not be

getting thier heads chopped off and americans wouldn't be torturing Iraqi's. It's that simple. Nothing more needs to be said. It is the Iraqis country, it is not ours. If you hit the tar baby your gonna get stuck up in the tar baby. To bad most Americans are to fucking stupid to figure that out.

RC

[TEXASYANKEE]

25. Wrong.

Nick Berg died because our stumbling, bumbling idiot of a pResident felt compelled to act Godlike by invading Iraq. If, as he should have, he had kept his eye on Afghanistan and al Qieda, Nick Berg and thousands of innocent Iraqis would still be alive. You can blame the media for not asking enough serious questions of this misAdminstration before the war, and being a cheerleader while the invastion was going on, but you can't blame the media for the subsequent events. The Arab street knew all about the abuses at that prison, it wasn't the US media that enlightened them.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. exactly! and when bush* said "Rummy, you've been a SURPERB Secty

the Iraqi's were appalled ...that statement flamed this!

IMPEACH the INCOMPETENT INSANE BUSH NOW!!!!

[RapidCreek]

55. Nick Berg died because Nick Berg was a war profiteer

I just heard his daddy on TV. The man stated that his son supported the Administration and the President and what was going on in Iraq. He further stated that his son "just wanted to contribute in a positive way". My, what a nice way of describing the actions of a war profiteer. Perhaps his son should have stayed at home and contributed in a positive way...then again the contributions to his bank account wouldn't have been nearly so positive.

If one is going to be a war profiteer...I shan't shed a tear for him or her. You fly with the crows you get shot with the crows. He knew the risks, he took them and he paid the price. Oh well. I feel much more sorry for a man who looks day after day, month after month and year after year for a job here in the US and cannot find one. I feel much more sorry for such a mans family. I feel more sorry for that man and his family when that mans government cares more about putting money in the pockets of war profiteers than the pocket of those seeking honest work for honest pay.

RC

[Bridget Burke]

28. The WAR is behind it all.

The illegal, unjustified invasion of Iraq led to the torture of the prisoners, which may have led to the beheading.

Our soldiers had bullseyes put on their backs when they arrived in Iraq.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. Bridget Burke that is TRUTH! that is the BOTTOMLINE!

[Malva Zebrina]

34. the American soldiers were distributing the CD's where

at least a thousand pictures were passed back and forth.

that is who took the pictures and who were distributing them long before the media did.

I may be wrong, I know it is the case in Saudi, where images or pictures of a person are not allowed--it may be the same for Muslims in Iraq.

Anyhow, you can bet these people knew that our soldiers were doing this.

[kaitykaity]

36. Bush put the bullseye on the soldiers by putting

then in Iraq illegally to begin with. The media are FINALLY
doing their fucking jobs.

(Is that media you're bitching about "liberal"? I
wonder.)

[thebigidea]

41. What a shameful argument.

"media has put a collective bullseye on the back of every soldier there. What did we expect to happen?"

As opposed to oh, the Bush regime.

[Mike Daniels]

32. Oh Bulls*hit

I'm as appalled by the torture photos and what's going on as much as anyone else, but Daniel Pearle and others have been executed by people in that country well before those photos were released.

They may use the prisoner abuse/torture as a convenient excuse but they've never lacked for reasons to execute their captives before and I think they've probably caused the tide to swing back to Bush with this act.

If this was to shake up the American public their timing sucks. At this point, the only photos shown have been pictures that at worst look humiliating (not to excuse what was done). If there are worse pictures out there (and I don't doubt that there's worse to come) then once those came out it would have been more reasonable to claim tit for tat. As it is, I doubt the public knows about the more severe acts of torture that took place and this is going to look like overkill compared to what they've seen in the paper at this time.

[bushbegone04]

40. I have been calling and writing

all afternoon to the networks asking them not to show anymore of the abuse photos for fear of more retribution - I hope they listen

[stickdog]

51. Pearl was executed in Pakistan because he stumbled on the ISI 9/11

connection.

[daleo]

53. Excellent summation of why some think this could be a black op

i.e. done by the CIA or similar intelligence agency to inflame U.S. public opinion, and make the torture photos seem minor in comparison (especially now that the torture photos will include rape, beating, and murder).

[Solomon]

3. Nope. This won't help the torture scandal go away because they

are connected. The beheading was retalitation.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

4. no

the beheading will be tied right to the torture scandal, just watch. They happened too close together for people nopt to see how one led to the other. If, as some say, the dark hand of Bushco is really behind Berg's death, it will be the worst mistake they ever made. This is the beginning of the end for the Bushitheads, folks. But we must counter Rethug spin by making the link between these two events readily apparent.

[kaitykaity]

5. God, I hope you're wrong.

I suspect you're right, but I hope not.

Maybe this story will make the torture story even
hotter. (I almost typed 'abuse' instead of torture.
I can't fucking believe it.)

[WilliamPitt]

6. Yup

Welcome to the new 'truth':

Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican from Oklahoma, lashed out at the outrage itself. "I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment," he said. While saying a few "misguided" and "maybe even perverted" perpetrators of abuse needed to be punished, he suggested that much of the criticism was exaggerated and misplaced.

"These prisoners, they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents," he said. "Many of them probably have American blood on their hands. And here we're so concerned about the treatment of those individuals." He went on: "I am also outraged that we have so many humanitarian do-gooders right now crawling all over these prisons, looking for human rights violations while our troops, our heros, are fighting and dying."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/11/international/middleeast/11CND-ABUS.html?hp

[Mick Knox]

8. Thanks for the link

It has already begun.

[kalian]

14. They're trying to justify the actions....

then, IMHO, they are justifying Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Kim Il
Sung's North Korea, etc, etc.
By demonizing the inmates, you remove all sense of responsibility
of treating them as HUMANS. By labelling them "terrorists" you are
immediately absolved of any wrong doing...and THAT is a VERY
dangerous thing.

[MnFats]

11. heard those comments live on radio this morning...

....almost had to pull over and puke.

[MnFats]

9. no, i think it will be used as an excuse...

can't you hear the right-wing pundits now?

"See what kind of people we're dealing with!?! Monsters! The only thing they understand is force!"

Bush etc. will harp on it; it'll be front-page news; some convoluted logic will be used to turn the whole thing on its head.

Of course, they'll be ignoring the fact that all this torture -- call it what it is, it's not 'abuse' -- was done by people in the guise of serving U.S. interests, paid for with yours and my tax dollars and, for as long as they could, and despite what Rumsfeld spewed -- covered up for just as long as could be.

Anyone else feeling a boiling rage welling up as these days go by?

[benddem]

10. Wait till the sex photos and videos get out !

[Mick Knox]

12. On the news right now:

The difference between us and them - we apologize and seek justice - they cut heads off. paraphrased MSNBC.

[thinkingwoman]

15. nah, there's nothing sexy

about this beheading...

and those amateurs didn't do anything sexual to the body after it was dead...

Don't worry. Sex sells. Wait for those photos.

[kaitykaity]

20. That's a good point.

But violence sells too, though, and there's video
of them killing the guy.

Just when I think it can't get any worse. :puke:

[rogerashton]

17. Wait a damn minute!

The guy disappeared on April 9 -- a month ago.

Do we really have any evidence that the beheading took place SINCE the torture scandal pictures came out? Are they mentioned?

And even if so -- clearly this young man was in Al-Qaida hands DIRECTLY AS A RESULT OF HIS CIVIL RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED BY AMERICAN AUTHORITIES.

[markus]

18. Remember: They're not humans. They're terrorists

All of them.

Are you with us or agin' us.

/sarcasm off

Don't forget, while your debating abuse v. torture in your references, the reports of cold blooded murder: shooting prisons from watch towers with no provocation.

At the end of the day, this looks to me like a ringing endorsement of Goerge Bush by al-Qaeda. Having gotten all the benefit they could ever want in the Arab world out of the abuse, torture and murder scandal, they up the ante to get their All Time Favorite Enemy re-elected here at home.

[Bonhomme Richard]

19. Something doesn't smell right here.

OK, the FBI had this guy and he was released a couple of times.
Out of all the people that could capture him in Iraq it just happens to be by an AlQueda tied group?
Who turned down the exchange?
Was he passed around by his initial captors until this group got him?
Why is the video so bad? Could it be on purpose?
Just weird that a regular guy gets it while they still have that soldier prisoner.
Something just doesn't seem right.

[smallprint]

45. This whole thing stinks from beginning to end.

This entire scandal has obviously been carefully choreographed--- the coordinated media blitz, the steady 'leaks' of photos, the planted 'fake' photos, the politicians who keep saying gravely 'oh it's going to get worse' while they can barely hide their excitement, the carnival sideshow atmosphere of the daily release of images... etc etc. it's pretty clear this whole thing is deliberate. that's not to say there isn't real torture and abuse going on, obviously there is, but you can just feel all sorts of sick, slimy manipulation going on behind the scenes.

[RebelOne]

21. I feel that this only the beginning.

and there will be a lot more acts to come for revenge against the prison tortures.

[59millionmorons]

23. No, the beheading was done because of the abuse.

This is worse for Bush. Even FAUX news said that terrorist who may not normally harm hostages may do so now because of the abuses.

[Democat]

30. Pentagon/U.S. Media won't release images, then the beheading video shows!

Think about it!

The Pentagon or White House asks the U.S. media not to release anymore videos or pictures of U.S. soldiers torturing prisoners.

Then suddenly a video of an American being beheaded is released and the entire U.S. media picks up on it.

The U.S. media once again helps the White House get its message out.

Why didn't the White House and U.S. media try to stop the release of the American being killed like they did with the Americans killing or torturing people?

This is so fucking obvious.

[Iceburg]

31. Why is Berg in an US issue "detainee" orange jump suit ?

[59millionmorons]

37. MSNBC calling it retribution NT

NT

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[arwalden]

Bush & Rove Are Secretly PLEASED At The Beheading News...

... something to justify the torture. Something to deflect criticism. Something to distract. Something to point to and say "toldyaso".

Can't you just see them "tenting" their fingers like Mr. Burns and mumbling "Excellent, Smithers, Excellent"... can't you??

-- Allen

Bush Is A Pig

[nolabels]

42. Something to deflect criticism

Would never of expected less , but it I still think it will get worse, much worse.

They are attempting to shock, invoke fear. The problem they will have is fear only works for so long, then it turns to rage.

Be careful :think:

[Karenina]

47. The clamour for those TORTURE pix

was getting terrible "radioactive" loud! Throw the folks some red meat!

[bacchant]

39. Funny thing about these Al Queda guys

They always seem to help the Bush administration more than they hurt it. Accident? Or design?

[seabeyond]

43. they are one

what happened in the prisons is an extention of the beheading

they are for always one

[killbotfactory]

44. Come on, it's just a beheading.

Beheading is an accepted interrogation tactic. These guys were just blowing off steam with harmless frat pranks. It's not like this Berg guy was captured for speeding tickets... you know he had to be doing something bad. These are just a few bad apples and don't represent the majority of Iraqis.

...

Where the hell is my oxycontin?