Quick ideology question

[taxidriver]

Which of the following democrats do you most admire or agree with? Please explain if you feel like it.

1)FDR

2)Clinton

3)Kucinich

I tried to get a wide range here, add others if you want to.

[Dookus]

1. Both FDR and Clinton

they both have incredible records of accomplishment despite nearly unbearable opposition.

But FDR's accomplishments are monumental. The greatest President ever.

[alittlelark]

2. post elsewhere with rhetorical questions.

I have my eyes on the prize, and you appear to be distracting me.

[taxidriver]

3. sorry

I was trying to get a feel for the atmosphere here. what is the proper forum for this kind of topic? general discussion seemed fitting.

[bigbillhaywood]

8. I think you're okay here, it's just that many people here distrust new

people, as they are suspected to be right-wing infiltrators. Rest assured, if you are one we'll figure it out and you'll be tombstoned. But if not, let me welcome you to DU!

[crossroads]

11. Especially when they have a DISABLED profile!

:shrug: If not a 'spy,' Welcome to DU!

[Donkeyboy75]

7. Obviously not, if you bothered replying to this.

[alittlelark]

9. I reply to those that pique my interest and those that raise my angst

I will continue to do so.
"I See Strawmen"........

[Eric J in MN]

4. Dennis Kucinich

Kucinich stands for justice, peace, compassion, and accountability.

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/10key.php

[izzie]

15. I like the way this man thinks. I do not know why he did not go far.

But that I am more a social Dem than most Dem are.

[bigbillhaywood]

5. Kucinich/FDR

1. Kucinich I think is the purest ideological "lefty liberal". But he's a vegan and I hate fucking vegans. His stands on labor issues are excellent.

2. But FDR is pretty close, and, objectively speaking, he was in the right place at the right time to do much more than Kucinich ever has or is likely to. Also, my grandparents were huge FDR admirers, so I kinda got a soft spot for the guy.

3. Hate Clinton. Slimy, back-stabbing conservative fuck.

[charlie]

16. "But he's a vegan and I hate fucking vegans"

LOL. Bill, you're a hoot. I just had to tell you that. Carry on :)

[bigbillhaywood]

19. Yeah, it all stems from an ex-girlfriend...

She was drop-dead gorgeous until she went vegan and turned into a stick. And she started hanging out with this PETA activist-type (white girl with dreads, you know the type), who would feign vomiting whenever I tried eating a cheesburger in front of her. What an asshole!

[rman]

21. why would anyone *hate* vegetarians?

It's not like Kucinich would force you to not eat meat would he?

It seems to me that whatever someone eats or doesn't eat is totally irrelevant to politics.

Would you vote for someone you hate?

Would you not vote for someone because he is a vegetarian?

Maybe you're just exadurating when you use the word "hate" in this context?

[bigbillhaywood]

22. Okay, veggie people, take it easy, don't get so upset. I'm just screwing

around. And I said I hate "vegans" not "vegetarians". And why do I hate them so much? Because they're too sensitive and can't take a joke (******SARCASM****** Or is it?)

[Donkeyboy75]

6. FDR

His New Deal could be the one thing you could point to that pulled the country out of depression (aside from that pesky World War II). He managed to do this despite a hostile congress.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[chicagojoe]

10. Welcome, taxidriver !!! F.D.R., mostly, but Clinton for taking out

Bush Daddy.

[Pachamama]

12. I admire/agree with some things they did and didn't do...

....I stopped "admiring" and "idolizing" people a long time ago, especially Politicians...

I can and do however admire things that these individuals have done - other things that they haven't:

1) FDR - The new deal was a good thing and saved this country from the Depression (Too Bad Bush can't be creating something similar here with the money he uses to destroy Iraq and line the pockets of his buddies). I also admire that he didn't let his physical handicaps prevent him from doing things and challenging himself.

2)Clinton - I think that he is very intelligent, certainly one of the smarter ones that we have had and certainly very charming and a great speaker. I think he genuinely cared about this country and he had respect from a lot of Foreign Nations and their leadership, something our current administration has none of. I think that he implemented some very good policies that were good for this country (and that sadly BushCo. has systematically tried to dismantle).

3) Kucinich - I respect him for being honest and not backing down on something that no other Politician including Howard Dean had the guts to say and that is that the first thing he would do as President is get the F**K out of Iraq....That took balls...but it is the truth...and he wasn't playing politics...PS: So what if he is a Vegan? Who cares what someone chooses to eat and its their personal decision how they want to treat and honor their temple. It's like religion - who are we to judge?

One, actually two, no three, no four names missing off this list are:

Jimmy Carter, Abe Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson and a favorite of mine, Benjamin Franklin...

[bigbillhaywood]

14. taxidriver was asking about dems, that's why Lincoln wasn't on the list

I guess I don't mind vegans so much, although not being a very tolerant person, I do find their sensless self-denial of the pleasures of meat and dairy products to be annoying in a hippie-dippy way. It's the animal rights activist PETA types that really piss me off-- anyone who places the concerns of animals over humans has a very fucked-up moral system as far as I'm concerned.

And who am I to judge? A judgemental asshole, that's who!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigbillhaywood]

20. I love animals. I have pets. I have no problem with animal lovers, it's

animal activists I can't stand. It's a waste of time and energy when there are so many human concerns to address, especially when you take a position like PETA, which is opposed to MEDICAL TESTING FOR LIFE-SAVING MEDICINES! Funny you mentioned the ex-lover thing, as I had just posted something regarding that above. Check it out and enjoy. I think we should now close this discussion, as it is beyond the bounds of this thread. I will say one last thing, people have critcized my profile "hobbies" and signature line before. I got a dark sense of humor, what can I say? Don't like it-- oh well. By the way, please don't launch personal attacks against me-- it is clearly forbidden by DU policy. I would alert your message, but I don't want it deleted because I think its kind of funny.

[bigbillhaywood]

23. Oh, and I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist, the Dalai Lama?

Do you have any idea the kind of highly-stratified feudal society that guy represents? I suppose an "incredibly strong moral system" includes thinking it's okay for the priestly class in Tibet to use peasants as foot stools to mount their steeds (Yeah, they used to do stuff like that prior to the Red invasion). Tibet independence? Sure. Restoration of the Dalai Lama and return to the stratified and oppressive feudal theocracy? I don't think so.

Okay, I'll go drink some herbal tea and burn some incense and chill out now.

[Djinn]

24. just had to say YEAH

for the (off topic) rarely noted points re the Dalai Lama and Buddhism - I have no personal truck against the bloke, seems like a decent enough fellow but it's a myth that Buddhism doesnt encompass as much prejudice and classism as most religions

[RoyGBiv]

25. Lincoln

Pardon the tangent...

I don't quite agree with your assessment of Lincoln, although "true democratic spirit" could actually mean a lot of things, which possibly means my comments are misplaced.

Historians will argue about this, so I'm not claiming some sort of inspired wisdom, but there are a few facts to consider. Lincoln was an old Clay Whig; he said that much himself quite clearly. He was deeply involved with railroad interests before and during the war, and if he had lived, it's rather clear this relationship would have continued. Railroad interests were the 19th century's oil interests. While direct comparisons probably aren't truly possible due to coalition shifts in the parties, it should be noted nonetheless that this branch of the Whig Party is often seen as the ancestor of the "big business Republicans" of the modern era. The 1860's-70's Republicans most like modern Democrats, specifically the liberal wing, were the so-called Radical Republicans. Lincoln and the Radicals rarely got along; they did not see eye to eye on a number of policies.

That said, Lincoln's accomplishments should not be downplayed. They were many, and they were spectacular. But, I don't think Lincoln would make a very good Democrat in the modern era.

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

27. Animals.

I'll give up meat when the dolphins and lions do.

"You are an Animal Big Bill Haywood!"

Can't work out whether you are posting satire or are serious. Why would you use 'animal' as an insult?

And that post is clearly a personal attack. BBH is like the torturers? And a serial killer?

You need to start practising that peace & love, as well as preaching it.

[Pachamama]

28. Mixing Satire w/ seriousness

If you follow Big Bill's postings, he has a twisted passive-aggressive funny/strange sense of humor...I was trying to do that..obviously you didn't see that...

Obviously, there were some true feelings in there, but you don't think that some of the things I was addressing were true?

I by the way do not claim to having discovered complete peace & love and a perfect zen-like state...I do aspire to it, but I am human and I wasn't preaching...

Obviously, you felt it necessary to reprimand me...

PS: I love Meat!!! I even have hunted! I just don't hunt for the pleasure of the kill and I eat what I hunt! :)

Aahhh Good Nite...I have a baby to go nurse and snuggle....

Namaste

[Oddman]

13. Personally I agree wholeheartedly with Kucinich

REalistically I'll vote for Kerry. I think Kucinich could be made official court jester. I think he would look cute in the outfit . . . For christ sakes . . . most real Democrats would agree with Kucinich they just know that he is not electable. . . .too bad . . .the world would be a better place . . .


As President Bush put it, they are an exceptional "few bad apples"
whose actions "do not reflect the nature of our country."

[Mattforclark]

17. Sorry, I don't do ideology

Ideology is a dangerous thing, and in my book is to be avoided as much as possible.

But I agree with all of those 3 people on different issues, and to different extents.

[Tellurian]

26. I don't do Bad Apples...

and I agree, "the big three", trio, troika, whatever you want to label them. Need to be royally Impeached!

[durutti]

29. None of the above.

All craven opportunists.