How does gay marriage actually UNDERMINE the sanctity of marriage?

[Sean Reynolds]

This seems to be a common argument built up by the right-wing fundies. But IMO it's a flimsy argument that is built to scare the general public. How exactly does allowing gays and lesbians marry undermine the sanctity of marriage more so than it already is?

Who defines what the sanctity of marriage is?

Because last I checked marriage wasn't a sacred thing. If anyone is undermining the sanctity of marriage it's heterosexuals. They're the ones cheating on their wives; they're the ones abusing their spouses. HOW is THAT not undermining the sanctity? Last I checked many religions were against divorce. So isn't it logical to say that divorcees too are undermining the sanctity? Really it seems the whole marriage notion has been dejected by typical hetero Americans.

So why would letting gays marry undermine such an institution? Is there anything left to undermine?

Am I just too simple? Because it seems rather obvious to me.

[Dark]

1. You're right. Marriage given by the government has no sanctity.

The government is seperate from religion (seperation of church and state) Thus, sanctity, which comes from God and, supposedly goes through religion. It never enters the government. How can the government distribute anything sanctified if it has no sanctity? It can't.

[Killarney]

2. It's a horrible argument.

When they say this, make the note that if anything is undermining the sanctity of marriage it is divorce. When Britney is married for 55 hours or J Lo for 8 months, THAT is undermining the sanctity of marriage. Not two men together for 30 years.

Then they'll inevitably bring up children and say that since two men cannot bring forth a child, it undermines the original purpose and therefore sanctity of marriage.

THEN, you counter with--well what about infertile couples or couples that want to be married but do not wish to have children?

Then, they'll mutter something about going to hell and they'll walk away.

[BigDaddyLove]

3. The last you checked, Marriage wasn't a sacred thing?

Check again big boy.

Sharing one's life with one other person until death is indeed a sacred thing.

Aside from giving birth to a child, there is nothing more beautiful.

[Sean Reynolds]

5. So when one divorces, or cheats, or abuses....

That isn't undermining the sacred part of marriage? Why isn't our government taking away THESE people's rights to marry?

[BigDaddyLove]

7. I don't know, you'd have to ask the government........

I was only responding to your idea about the sacredness of Marriage.

[Sean Reynolds]

9. Good to see the government is dictating religious thought.

Not only does that go against what our country was founded upon, it crosses over that wonderful line that separates church and state.

If you're going with the logic that gays and lesbians will undermine the sacredness of marriage; one too has to go by the logic that abuse, divorce and cheating undermines marriage as well.

How many Americans cheat on their spous?
How many abuse their spous?
How many have divorced?

[BigDaddyLove]

15. Where did I mention anything about gays and lesbians?

You seem to be looking for a fight where there isn't one.

I never said anything about Gays getting married affecting my Marriage, or anything else for that matter.

Also, I don't need the government nor any particular religious group to tell me that my Marriage to my wife is sacred....the feeling comes from me, from us.

With regard to your questions, I suggest you consult Google...the answers are all there.

[Sean Reynolds]

18. I said that the sacredness of marriage

Isn't what you think UNDER Republican logic.

THAT was the point of my post.

[BigDaddyLove]

20. I'm sorry, I don't see the connection between.........

how I feel about my Marriage and Republican logic; you're gonna have to clear that up for me.

While you're at it, fill me in on why if Marriage is so horrible, Gays would want to get Married in the first place.

[Sean Reynolds]

22. I never said marriage was horrible.

I think you've misread my post as an attack on marriage. Whereas it was an attack on Republican logic. I only meant that if Republicans wanted to use the sacredness of religion as their argument to stop gay marriage; that then ALL religion would not be sacred because it's been broken by hetero couples.

[BigDaddyLove]

24. Perhaps I did misread your post..........

Though I would have to disagree with your assertion that because many heterosexual Marriages end in divorce that that somehow takes away the 'sacredness' of Marriage.

I understand what you mean, I just disagree that that's what happens, anymore than a thunderstorm makes the summer less summerish.

[Sean Reynolds]

25. But I don't think that!

I was just saying that if Republicans could use the sacredness of marriage to attack gay marriage - then they should think that divorce, abuse and cheating undermines that as well.

[BigDaddyLove]

28. Hmmmm.........

I guess what they mean is that it's sacred because it's between a man and a woman; that that's how God intended it to be, and not in the sense that it's sacred because it's simply beautiful.

It would seem that they're only talking about a relatively narrow definition of the word 'sacred', and probably not the same definition most people use when they think of their Marriage.

Marriage would be (and is) a sacred bond between two people regardless of the sex of those involved.

[Sean Reynolds]

30. I agree.

And if they're taken it the way God intended it to be, THEY'D realize that marriage wasn't sacred because of divorce, abuse and cheating.

[BigDaddyLove]

32. True.........

Though if they do continue to rely on what God 'said' about what a Marriage should look like, they will sorta have a point about it only being between a man and a woman....Adam and Eve and all that.

It's an easy argument to make, just point to the Bible and you don't have to really think about it....which is probably why it's relied on so much.

[foreigncorrespondent]

34. It might be beautiful...

...but it most certainly isn't sacred.

When the divorce rate is so high?

When most marriages don't happen in a church? (Please think about what the word 'sacred' actually means.)

I am sorry, but heterosexuals have made a mockery out of marriage, and don't have the right to keep others from having a chance at making it work.

[mike1963]

4. Isn't it obvious? All husbands will run off with the gardener and their

wives will elope with the maids!

:eyes:

[ikojo]

6. The right-wing is so hypocritical on this issue...

In the 1980s and 90s they said that gays were too permiscuous. NOW, when many gays and lesbians want to validate their relationships, they are being accused of undermining an institution wherein 50% of those entering into it FAIL!

[Guava Jelly]

8. As a 37 year old straight Male

Who has lived in sin with one woman for the last 14 years.
I think the institution of marriage isn't anything sacred , great or required.
I have watched Most of my Straight friends dive into Marriage having big elaberate ones with sappy love songs costing tons of cash.
Yet no matter how nice ,pretty or memorable a Wedding is marriages these days Rarely last.
I am friends with a few Gay couples one couple has been together for almost as long as I have been with my lady and are faithful good guys to each other.

I am not against anyone getting married..I just aint keen on anyone getting married as i think Marriage is just a paper a word and if you need your promises documented on paper then your promise is somewhat lessoned.

I think if a person wants to marry a ham sandwich then I dont care its none of my business its nobody but the person and the sexy ham sandwich :O).oooooooooooh hammmm sandwich..sorry homer simpson moment

[mike1963]

10. Well, (LOL) a ham sandwich won't ever cheat on you or file for divorce

:D

[unblock]

13. ham sandwiches can and do go bad. i've seen it happen, it's not pretty.

[donco6]

21. Ha! And thanks.

My partner and I will celebrate our 7th anniv this July.

We're stuck with each other now. Which is pretty cool.

Sanctity, schmanctity - I've seen both my sisters go through the big formal church wedding. Pfft. Both marriages ended after a year - one after her husband beat her up. Yeah, that's sanctity. No thanks.

Really - not interested in marriage even if I could.

[unblock]

11. don't think about the logic, there is none. it's about bigotry

this argument bugs me too. BUT IT WORKS. my own mother, a card-carrying member of the aclu, who has legally defended gays from wrongful dismissal, who has always had an 'i don't care what anyone does in their own home' attitude, even SHE believes that gay marriages somehow undermine her own.

it's baffling. i mean, if i make a promise and commitment to mrs. unblock, how the hell does a bunch of other people MAKING commitments undermine my own. but as i said, logic doesn't apply.

there's plenty of bigotry against gays, and this argument is an appeal to that bigotry. it stops there. gays want to do something, it gets viewed as a threat to heterosexuals, out comes an argument that makes no sense but gets read as 'whose side are you on'. with such high levels of anti-homosexuality, people instinctively go for the 'i'm not gay' side.

doesn't matter that there's no logic. the lack of logic merely makes it clear that it isn't about logic. it's about hate. deep seated hate.

[LuLu550]

12. I was happily married until gay people started getting married

then my blissful marriage broke up. It's all the gay people's fault....God told me. ;)

[terrya]

14. It doesn't. There's NO reason to deny gay marriage.

All this opposition to gay marriage is about is that some people hate gay men and lesbians and want to deny our existance.

That's it.

Terry

[MORTEN]

16. Since interpertation is linked with common sense

The fact that gay marriage undermines sanctity is that these people who are opposing have never readed the bible as it is supposed to be written: for interpertation possible.....

So a marriage as written (between a WOMAN and a MAN) can in fact seen as between 2 PEOPLE.

But some other people can only understand it to the letter...ironic...since these are often the people who judge some others as fundamentalists.


The laws of God, the laws of man,
He may keep that will and can;
Not I: let God and man decree
Laws for themselves and not for me;
And if my ways are not as theirs
Let them mind their own affairs.
Their deeds I judge and much condemn,
Yet when did I make laws for them?
Please yourselves, say I, and they
Need only look the other way.
But no, they will not; they must still
Wrest their neighbour to their will,
And make me dance as they desire
With jail and gallows and hell-fire.
And how am I to face the odds
Of man's bedevilment and God's?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.
They will be master, right or wrong;
Though both are foolish, both are strong.
And since, my soul, we cannot fly
To Saturn nor to Mercury,
Keep we must, if keep we can,
These foreign laws of God and man.

[thecrow]

29. Nice Poem!

Welcome to DU, Morten!

[x-g.o.p.er]

17. I think it's curious that...

those on the right are quick to condemn homosexuals for wanting to marry as a sin and as an affront to God, but when reality TV marries two people who basrely know each other, they say nothing. And when they divorce, and then "fornicate" it is as much of an affront to God as a gay lifestyle (according to their biblical beliefs).

It seems that two people in a committed relationship would seem to have a better chance than The Bachelor and the chick he picked out of a line-up.

:wtf:

[meg]

19. How will the 'little woman' know her place, if

equals can marry? It's all about gender roles and keeping women submissive.

[Nikia]

23. I think that it is a gender thing too

People who oppose gay marriage most seem to have rather rigid ideas about gender roles. They speak about how men and women are opposites that compliment each other in marriage. If one believes that each individual has a right to decide which gender roles they take, that philosophy falls flat on its face.

[smirkymonkey]

31. I never thought about it that way, but

it makes sense. Actually, more sense than any other reason I have heard. Not for disallowing gay marriage, but why the fundies would be so opposed to gay marriage.

Do you have any more info on that side of the issue? A link perhaps?

I am going to my first gay wedding in a few weeks. The grooms are getting married in Toronto, Canada and then they are having the reception a week later at their weekend house in Connecticut. I am really looking forward to it!

[dawn]

26. It doesn't. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[doni_georgia]

27. I don't get it

My marriage is between my husband and I. How could ANYONE else's marriage (regardless of the sex of the people involved) undermine our marriage? It's insane. It's not logical. I personally find people like Anna Nicole Smith who marry an old rich guy with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel offensive, but even THAT doesn't undermine my marriage. My marriage is legitimate because of the commitment my husband and I have made to each other. It's that plain and simple. What are these wringnuts worried about - that their spouses will come out of the closet and run off with someone of the same sex????

[SharonAnn]

36. Jon Stewart said he might've been against it until someone

told him that he wouldn't have to marry one (a gay person, that is). So after that, he said he's fine with it.

Me too. My marriage is not affected by someone else's marriage (or divorce).

The "sanctity" of marriage is most likely being destroyed by divorce.

[ulTRAX]

33. In the Same Way..........

Burning the flag is injurious to the nation.

It dosen't.... but it's a great way for RR'tard reactionaries to scare up votes.

[Failure]

35. MUST READ:

"The results of more than a century of anthropological research on households, kinship relationships, and families, across cultures and through time, provide no support whatsoever for the view that either civilization or viable social orders depend upon marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. Rather, anthropological research supports the conclusion that a vast array of family types, including families built upon same-sex partnerships, can contribute to stable and humane societies.

The Executive Board of the American Anthropological Association strongly opposes a constitutional amendment limiting marriage to heterosexual couples."



http://www.aaanet.org/press/ma_stmt_marriage.htm


Done.
Failure.