PLEASE READ: What We Must Do to Reclaim Our Dignity

[Beam Me Up]

What Americans can Do--Perhaps MUST Do--to Reclaim Their Dignity and Standing in the Eyes of the World

Dear DUers,

Yesterday, in a MoPaul thread, I posted the famous quote from Mario Savio forcefully and passionately delivered almost forty years ago:

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part; you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop. And you’ve got to indicate to all the people who run it, to the people that own it, that unless you’re free, the machines will be prevented from working at all.

Here is what I want to say to you today:

There are moments in history which become DEFINING; moments when something happens at a deeper level than our ordinary lives. Suddenly something calls to us and we feel the absolute NEED to respond to this call from within ourselves and do what MUST be done. These defining moments become part of the MYTHOLOGY that defines a people--be they a political movement, a nation, or a philosophy--and sets the stage for how they see themselves and how they are seen by others through time. Our nation was initiated by such a moment when our founders risked death by writing and signed the Declaration of Independence.

The quote from Mario Savio above is an example of such a moment. It came in the context of a preceding year of protest against racism in this country. It was a call from one student, an activist, to the student body of the University of California, Berkeley to, for a time, put aside their political differences, lay aside their roles as students, abandon their classes and their studies and to quietly, non-violently, take up a cause of greater importance and walk into the UC Berkeley Administration building of Sproul Haul and not only protest but actually, physically STOP the workings of the University Administration. This sit-in was sparked by the arrest and expulsion of students who had taken a stand in favor of free speech and political organization on that campus--something the Administration had outlawed. It came in the wake of an impromptu mass demonstration a few days earlier when thousands of young people sat down in Sproul Plaza, physically blocking a police car in which student activist Jack Weinberg was being held. The sight of this impromptu demonstration and mass act of civil disobedience had shocked the world and became a defining moment in what later became the movement to stop the war in Vietnam. The sit-in in Sproul Hall would end with the arrest of over 800 students, the largest such arrest of students up to that time. Students everywhere saw themselves in those arrests and felt called to commit themselves to something more than simply being a student.

This is but one set of examples. This nation has been defined by moments of greatness, large and small. Times when we have shown one another and the global community of nations that, despite our many real and serious differences, we, as a people, stand for ideals such as TRUTH, JUSTICE, HONOR, FREEDOM, and INTEGRITY. Repeatedly Americans have been so CALLED by their commitment to these ideals that they felt the absolute NEED to put themselves--and sometimes their very lives--on the line and to stand up for what they know in their heart is right.

Given the circumstances we find ourselves in today, I believe that WE, the American People, are being CALLED once again by circumstances of history to be willing to peacefully GO BEYOND politics as usual. Called to BE PREPARED to sacrifice our daily cares and concerns and put ourselves, our roles or jobs, our very lives if need be, on the line against corruption in high office, against dereliction of duty, against crimes of humanity perpetrated in our name with lies and deceit.

Last night on this DU Board a thread was started by Oddman suggesting that WE, the people of DU, organize a "Resignation March on Washington July 4th 2004]" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1554399 . I think this is a fine idea--and I support it--but I am writing today to offer another suggestion--something for us all to think about and consider:

Today with Internet Technology and Instant Access to one another via Cell Phone, IT IS POSSIBLE TO ORGANIZE AN IMPROMPTU DEMONSTRATION OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE ON A MASSIVE SCALE.

Personally, I am OUTRAGED by what has happened in this country since the selection of 2000. I regard the people occupying the White House as nothing less than criminals who have figuratively tortured and raped me and my fellow citizens--and our Constitution--while literally robbing us of great wealth, dignity and our sense of personal and national security. Simultaniously they have literally murdered, tortured, raped and robbed the people of Iraq and Afghanistan--all based on the pretext of a BOGUS "War on Terrorism"; all predicated on the heinous events of September 11, 2001 which day by day not only look like they could have been prevented but, in fact, look like they may have been aided and abetted by mercenary covert operatives associated with criminals now occupying the highest offices of our nation.

I feel strongly that it is time that we here at DU use our intelligence and our resources to begin to FIGHT BACK--not only by means of seeing to it that these criminals do not steal yet ANOTHER ELECTION this year--but more directly. What I am suggesting is that WE here at DU, in conjunction with other individuals and activist organizations, friends and family and coworkers, begin to forge alliances and an agreement that: UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES (yet to be defined--but such as another 'terrorist attack' or another 'escalation' of war, etc.) WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES WILL ACTIVELY YET NON-VIOLENTLY RESIST ANY FURTHER EROSION OF OUR LIBERTIES OR ANY FURTHER INCURSIONS OF OUR MILITARY ABROAD. Agree, in other words, that if certain conditions arise, we WILL put our bodies "upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus" of this out of control system and we WILL make it stop.

My vision is to organize this in such a way that--given a significant "triggering event"-- EVERY city center becomes a 'Sproul Plaza' and every government and corporate office building becomes a 'Sproul Hall'--a SUDDEN AND MASSIVE GENERAL STRIKE.

It is my belief that such a defining moment is not only POSSIBLE but may actually be NECESSARY. We MUST show ourselves and the rest of the world that WE WILL NO LONGER ALLOW THE TYRANNICAL NEO-FASCIST AGENDA TO GO FORWARD IN OUR NAME. We have a RIGHT to free speech. We have a RIGHT to peaceful assembly. We have a RIGHT to demand a redress of grievances. ALL OF THESE RIGHTS ARE ALSO OUR RESPONSIBILITIES. We are OBLIGED to defend them with our lives if need be by the very Founding Documents of our Republic.

I say, NO MORE! NOT ONE MORE ATROCITY!! NOT ONE MORE LIE!!!

Edited to add some links to background on the Berkeley Free Speech Movement for those interested:
http://www.fsm-a.org/
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/saviotranscript.html
http://home.att.net/~enfield/fsm_gallery.htm
http://home.att.net/~enfield/fsmhist3.html

[Nashyra]

1. I will go to Washington in July

no problem!

[opihimoimoi]

2. We must turn to ourselves in finding a cure a solution, not the band aid

thing, but the end of it, the vaccination.

That is the challenge. It will take a long time and may be impossible in our life time.

But to no end we should be making the attempt.

[Beam Me Up]

8. Don't we KNOW what the solution IS opihimoimoi?

I admit I may be totally deluded but it seems to me fairly simple: Great Wealth has corrupted our Democratic systems. Great Wealth in the hands of a few people who have primarily their own class interests at heart. Great Wealth which has used the system to perpetuate their own hegemony.

This analysis is admittedly simplistic but I don't think anyone here can argue that at its core, it is the essence of the problem. The QUESTION is, what are we going to DO about it? When Great Wealth and political power is concentrated in the hands of a few families, corporations, cabals and mafias--how do you redistribute that wealth and power? How do you correct the system--especially when the NEWS of how the system is being corrupted and abused is itself under the control of those who own the major media (not us)?

So, to me, first thing is massive education. Back in the sixties we used to have 'teach-ins' where a bunch of people would get together and listen to a stream of speakers informing us about things we didn't know. THAT IS WHAT DU HAS BEEN DOING FOR ALL OF US. Hopefully many of us have been taking the information here and BROADCASTING it to our own circle. I know I have.

So that is a step.

What I'm pointing to is ANOTHER STEP. We could make arrangements to agree that, given a trigger event, we would get on our computers and email lists, get on our cell phones, and begin to contact everyone we know to IMPLEMENT PRE-ARRANGED NONVIOLENT CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

We, the people, so often FEEL POWERLESS. We are not powerless. WE make the system work! If need be we can STOP the system from working. The only thing is, to be effective, it must be a very large scale movement. It must SHOCK everyone to make it sufficiently newsworthy--something that can not be ignored.

Why do this? To show those of Great Wealth that, we, too, have power and we know it.

I'm not saying this is the 'end game'--I'm saying it could be a necessary strategy in the months ahead if things continue to spin further and further out of control. I'm saying we should begin to organize and plan for this NOW. And I'm also saying that leaving it 'unpredictable'--that is, not set to a particular time or place--gives us an incredible of advantage.

[opihimoimoi]

26. I type this moments before leaving for GOLF

Will respond this evening. Thanks

[opihimoimoi]

43. We must find ways to curb Brainwashing by the Pub Psyops machine,

They are up to no good, complete control and domination is their goal,

[doni_georgia]

27. I was thinking about this the other day

Our government was not designed to be controlled by special corporate interests, but that is what has happened. Corporations run America through their campaign donations and their PACS. Something has got to be done! Information is controlled by these same corporations. We are a country of, by and for corporations now days. Something has got to give! Defense contractors and oil countries control our foreign policy. Pharmeceutical companies dictate our health policies. When is enough enough? I am sick to death of it. Corporate donations to political parties and political campaigns need to stop NOW! Only way to get through to these people is use their language. Find out who the SOBs supporting this administration are and boycott the hell out of them. I am quite content to buy my food from food co-ops from independent farmers. I am quite content to park my damn car as much as possible (only drive to and from work). I am quite willing to boycott restaurants, soft drink companies, and commerical television. Hell, I'll even buy a kit and brew my own damn beer. Let's do something!

Want to get started on a small scale?
Send Rush Packing
http://www.geocities.com/sendhimpacking/

[Beam Me Up]

28. I've been downsizing my life my whole life.

I still have plenty of 'little luxuries' like the wonderful Peets coffee I drink every day. I'm an artist, too, so I create my own beauty around me. I have incredible friends and get to take lots of time off from my day job to enjoy life.

I am not "rich" but, qualitatively, I am very privileged and I know it!

We need to do this. We need to take back control of our lives. One way is to STOP watching so much TV. I stopped watching completely not long after 9/11. I DO NOT MISS IT, FOLKS!! I am just as informed, perhaps more so, than I've ever been. I AM JUST LESS INDOCTRINATED BY THE CORPORATE REALITY SYSTEM.

I am a spark. I want the fire to start. I can feel there is warmth--I can feel it. I'm not alone. WE are not alone. People all over this country and all over the world WANT CHANGE.

WE CAN CHANGE THE SYSTEM BECAUSE WE ARE THE SYSTEM!

[doni_georgia]

54. You are absolutely right

I watch, maybe 1 hour of commercial television a week (usually MTP on Sunday mornings). TV drives me crazy, because it is nothing mind control over your shopping, thinking, and lifestyle habits. I comment to my students all the time about their obsessions with name brand products, because of advertising. Thing is, their parents are every bit as bad. People make fun of me for being a "granola mom." I take it as a compliment!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. General strike

I like the idea of going to work, school, whatever, and then just walking out, standing and facing east in silence. Or go to a designated place, and stand in silence. It is something everyone could do, including those who cannot get to Washington to protest.

[Beam Me Up]

13. Yes!

I admit that I am an agitated soul. I am agitated because I was born into a world of injustice and ignorance that makes no sense to that divine spark within myself that knows LOVE and UNDERSTANDING are the solutions to the very problems that surround and permeate us. I admit that I am not very good at cultivating the very things that I know are the most important. I try to sit in meditation at least once a day. I'm not very good at it. My mind just goes on and on--agitated. Occasionally that small quiet flame appears in my heart and I understand.

I have sometimes fantasized that the most effective thing we could do is begin a massive, peaceful and SILENT resistance. I've envisioned thousands of people sitting in meditation, contemplation and prayer with invitations for others to join. Stop everything. Stop what you are doing with your body. Stop what you are doing with your mind. Bring your attention to THIS moment NOW; try to sense the eternal qualities within it. We are here. THIS is our world, our reality!

Truthfully, we, as human beings, can not control everything. That is a fact. BUT we CAN control many things that we do--to ourselves, to one another. We CAN become responsible--to ourselves, to one another.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. I agree

we can bring peace by first finding it in ourselves.

Shalom. Salaam. Peace.

[CityZen-X]

18. Strike Now, Again, & Again.......

until we make this vile, odious machine stop!
And stop feeding the monkey by denying them their extortion money. (aka taxes)

[jbm]

4. I am amazed this post is dropping...

For two years I have been frustrated and appalled and angry and worried,but the latest events have changed all that into absolute outrage. I realized last night that,for me anyway,this was that defining moment where I said "NO MORE". Unlike you though,who spent that outrage in a constructive way by suggesting action,I went to a conservative board and wrote one of those "whatkindoffuckingmoronsareyouanddon'tyoudarewavethatflaginmyfacethatyou'vedefiled"posts.

Your way is better. Thanks for writing this.

[chimpymustgo]

10. I posted this last Saturday, calling for some kind of DU action:

Matcom, Skinner, DU FAMILY: turn our anger, disgust sadness into action?Edited on Sat May-01-04 11:28 AM by chimpymustgo

These last few days many of us clenched our teeth as we saw the pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused by laughing American servicemen and women. We watched and listened last night as Ted Koppel read the names of the American troops killed in Iraq.

This morning, I, and many of you, grimly noted the names of the war dead that Skinner has put on the DU homepage. Then, I wept through the New Yorker article outining the systematic abuse of Iraqi prisoners - please read this, and understand how we are "liberating" the Iraqi people. It is painful, but we cannot avert our eyes.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Then I read Matcom's heartbreaking thread - a veteran's sorrow and outrage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...

I don't think we are alone in feeling sick, disgusted, dismayed, horrified. What has become of our country? Endless war, war crimes, lies, censorship, voting misconduct, civil liberty curtailment, and the CNN news anchors are yukking it up, misleading and misrepresenting as I write this.

How can we turn our sadness and rage into a positive force? Can we do something collectively - as Democratic Underground - to take action for change?

Many of us have been, and continue to be active in political campaigns. I hope we all continue to do that. But I wonder if we can make a very focused statement, take a strong action that specifically addresses the outrages that our government is prepetrating upon us, our country, and the world.
Does anyone else share this desire? Do your have any ideas about how best to do something? One thought I had is to donate for a full page ad in the NYTimes. I'm sure you guys can think of someting - many things - better.

Now the CNN anchors are talking about Kerry's hair.

HELP!!!!!!!
 

  Replies to this thread:
   Maybe a time of silence  ayeshahaqqiqa   May-01-04 11:14 AM   #1 
   That seems like...  brook   May-01-04 11:28 AM   #3 
      It should be planned  ayeshahaqqiqa   May-01-04 11:54 AM   #4 
      I agree.  brook   May-01-04 12:34 PM   #7 
      NO TO SILENCE! TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND SCREAM IN PUBLIC!  JohnOneillsMemory   May-01-04 12:03 PM   #6 
         I like the moment of silence idea, but I LOVE the BELL!  chimpymustgo   May-01-04 12:43 PM   #8 
   Choose one issue  pberq   May-01-04 11:28 AM   #2 
   TIME TO BREAK OUT THE BOOTS  saigon68   May-01-04 11:57 AM   #5 
   I can't stand it.  undergroundpanther   May-01-04 01:07 PM   #9 
   Oh, God. I just read that New Yorker article.  VolcanoJen   May-01-04 01:29 PM   #10 
   There ARE no words. What can we DO?  chimpymustgo   May-01-04 02:09 PM   #11 
      Any ideas? Given the level off outrage,  chimpymustgo   May-01-04 06:27 PM   #12 
         Sunday morning thoughts or ideas.  chimpymustgo   May-02-04 09:53 AM   #13 
            I'm in favor of massive protests and boycotts!  doni_georgia   May-02-04 11:47 AM   #18 
   We've got tohit them where it hurts....in the pocket book and stock accoun  keithyboy   May-02-04 10:06 AM   #14 
   Here is what I did!  Hubert Flottz   May-02-04 10:16 AM   #15 
   A symbolic parade and burial in some major city  mmonk   May-02-04 10:24 AM   #16 
   Here's another thread posted this morning.  chimpymustgo   May-02-04 11:37 AM   #17 
   From the second I read Hersh I could think of nothing else  seemslikeadream   May-02-04 12:05 PM   #19 
   kick  lostnfound   May-02-04 08:48 PM   #20 
   Kick for Monday morning - good time to have an updated resource list...  calimary   May-03-04 12:00 AM   #21 
ayeshahaqqiqa  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe a time of silence
Choose a day, a time, when everyone stops what they are doing, wherever they are, and stand and face the east in silence. This would be symbolic, because this is what school kids used to do on Armistace Day at 11 am. It could be a reminder that the US used to have ideals, and that there is still a chance that the world can live in peace.  
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brook  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That seems like...
a good idea to me. Simple and eloquent. Respectful. Can be done anywhere. If you're in your car and can safely do so, pull over to the curb and stand. Do it at your desk, in your front yard, any place, alone or together. 
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ayeshahaqqiqa  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It should be planned
so it happens on a specific date and time. It is something everyone can do, and if enough do it, it can make a powerful statement. 
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brook  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I agree.
And in this case, I do believe the 'silence' is eloquent. We live in such a noisy society that an angry scream is lost in the din. 
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JohnOneillsMemory (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. NO TO SILENCE! TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND SCREAM IN PUBLIC!
Remember the old town crier? That's what we all need to be.
Lunch hour in cities has thousands in throngs on the sidewalks. Get a bell and an American Revolutionary war tri-corn hat and use your lungs to list the crimes of King George.
This will resonate with people, a little theater and A LOT OF OUTRAGED INFORMATION!
HEAR YE - HEAR YE! HEAR YE- HEAR YE! 
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chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I like the moment of silence idea, but I LOVE the BELL!Edited on Sat May-01-04 01:03 PM by chimpymustgo
Our new American Revolution. 
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pberq (30 posts) Sat May-01-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Choose one issue
Good point. We need to turn our anger into action. How about picking one issue, like voting fraud, and gong after that?
In this article, Greg Palast talks about the purges of Florida in 2000 now being institutionalized nation-wide with Help the America Vote Act (HAVA).
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040517&s=palast  
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saigon68  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. TIME TO BREAK OUT THE BOOTS
?TIME TO GET MARCHING AGAIN
LOOKS LIKE COWARD AND CHICKEN HAWK ARE HAVING A PARTY IN THE CITY
THIS FALL
We need to go there and say hi to them
The second and last Nixon Inaugural Convention Miami 1972
Ron Kovic in the chair front far right 
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undergroundpanther (291 posts) Sat May-01-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I can't stand it.

Maybe the military should get some morals, if not instituted frfrom the TOP down.Make it come from the bottom ~up then.
Shake the corruption from your own heartsand the hearts of your fellows until it has nowhere to hide from justice!
http://www.unknownnews.net/031126a-up.html  
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VolcanoJen  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh, God. I just read that New Yorker article.Edited on Sat May-01-04 01:40 PM by VolcanoJen
That's the hardest thing I've read in this entire fucking bullshit war. It was very, very difficult just to make it through the article.
When he returned later, Wisdom testified:
I saw two naked detainees, one masturbating to another kneeling with its mouth open. I thought I should just get out of there. I didn’t think it was right . . . I saw SSG Frederick walking towards me, and he said, “Look what these animals do when you leave them alone for two seconds.” I heard PFC England shout out, “He’s getting hard.”
Everyone really needs to read this story, and the mainstream media needs to start reporting the truth about Abu Ghraib: those photos do not represent the acts of a few; those photos do not represent an isolated incident, as we are being told.
Those photos represent a complete failure of the Army to instill honor and values in its soldiers. Those photos represent the result of what soldiers were instructed to do by their commanding officers, and worse, private contractors.
It's worse, really, than we could have even imagined after seeing the photos for the first time. It's far worse.
I just... wow, I feel like matcom now. There really are no words, are there? 
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chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. There ARE no words. What can we DO?
We have to take action. Do something. These criminals cannot be allowed to continue doing this to our country. 
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chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts) Sat May-01-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Any ideas? Given the level off outrage,
anybody want to DO something? 
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chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Sunday morning thoughts or ideas.
I just read a post about bombarding Congress with emails. I'm all for it. But again, I wonder if we at DU can organize a focused, defined protest. 
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doni_georgia (654 posts) Sun May-02-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I'm in favor of massive protests and boycotts!
We've been silent too long. People are waiting for some organized protest. We need to get something going - like yesterday! 
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keithyboy (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. We've got tohit them where it hurts....in the pocket book and stock accoun
But most of us here are unwilling to sacrifice and to ask others to sacrifice. It would mean an unprecedented boycott of autos, gasoline, and products that make these greedy, evil oligarchs wealthy and powerful. It won't happen. We do not have the courage and stamina and purpose of the people who organized and successfully carried out the civil rights boycotts that took place in the sourth and bought an entire city bus service to its knees. It just ain't in us!! We are much too comfortable. 
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Hubert Flottz (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. Here is what I did!
Senator ______;
I would like to call this article in the 'New Yorker' to your attention!
TORTURE AT ABU GHRAIB
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
American soldiers brutalized Iraqis. How far up does the responsibility go?
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact
"How far up does the responsibility go?" is exactly what congress should look into ASAP. I can't believe my tax dollars are funding these awful things! Public Congressional hearings on this matter with all the witnesses UNDER OATH should be demanded! "This Aggression should not stand!"
How can we EVER expect to settle anything in Iraq with these types of things going on?
SNIP>
"At the Article 32 hearing, the Army informed Frederick and his attorneys, Captain Robert Shuck, an Army lawyer, and Gary Myers, a civilian, that two dozen witnesses they had sought, including General Karpinski and all of Frederick’s co-defendants, would not appear. Some had been excused after exercising their Fifth Amendment right; others were deemed to be too far away from the courtroom. “The purpose of an Article 32 hearing is for us to engage witnesses and discover facts,” Gary Myers told me. “We ended up with a c.i.d. agent and no alleged victims to examine.” After the hearing, the presiding investigative officer ruled that there was sufficient evidence to convene a court-martial against Frederick."
This does not sound at all like Bush and Friends are willing to conduct an honest investigation on this horrid matter! Congress should DEMAND some answers! Congress should DEMAND that the witnesses be examined in a public hearing! Are we a civilized nation, or have we become like the Nazis we defeated, or thought we defeated, in WW II? Does Congress not have any oversight over Rumsfield's Army anymore?
Sincerely; 
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mmonk  (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. A symbolic parade and burial in some major city
about the death of democracy in America? 
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chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Here's another thread posted this morning.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...
I'm not sure about flag burning. I agree with the right to do it, but not sure that's the most successful tactic - it's so divisive, the message gets lost. 
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seemslikeadream  (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. From the second I read Hersh I could think of nothing else
CORRECTED-Iraq prisoners faced "sadistic" abuses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...
TORTURE AT ABU GHRAIB

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&...
Then this was reported
30 MORE TORTURE SCANDALS PROBED

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&...  
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lostnfound  (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. kick
I like the full page ad idea. 
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calimary  (1000+ posts) Mon May-03-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Kick for Monday morning - good time to have an updated resource list...
, PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!
OR, TRY (877) – 762 – 8762. It’ll get you there, too! (Thank you, DUer redqueen!)
Please note, here, The World's Greatest Lists of Media Contacts – updated April 30, 2004– in the following thread:
LINK:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...
IF THEY THINK WE DON’T CARE, THEY WON’T, EITHER!
LOTS of good contact data. Just pick one or two. Just do something. Anything. Make a stink. JUST DON'T SIT IDLY BY and assume somebody else is gonna do it. That somebody else is gonna have to be us, too.  

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1508754

[Beam Me Up]

16. Thank you, Chimpy!

I was at work last Saturday and did not see your thread.

Saturday's may not be the best days to initiate threads like this. I know it is a beautiful day outside and I intend to get out in it--not to mention other things I need to attend to.

It is also a long read--and that always puts lots of people off. But I'm going to keep this thread kicked all the way to Monday, even if I'm the ONLY one kicking it!

I'm certain there are MANY here at DU who feel this frustration and outrage and sense that it is time for us to move toward organized direct political action. We have been doing it. We will continue to do it. We can change the course of history. WE MUST change the course of history. Our lives and the lives of those who come after us DEPEND upon it.

[rdfi-defi]

17. you wont be the only one to..........kick

[jbm]

44. somehow I missed this thread...

when you posted it last saturday. Thanks for reposting it. I was thinking tonight that sitting here getting angrier and angrier everytime something new happens is pointless,and the cure for the anger is positive action. It's time for me to stop fuming and focus on action.

[jarab]

5. kick!!

...O...

[calimary]

6. Sure seems to me like it's come to this.

I'm watching even now to see what kind of critical mass is being reached.

We have to get their attention.

And for another reason, also:

The world - the Arab world, the EVERYBODY world, needs to see that there are huge numbers of Americans who vehemently object to this and resist it being done in our name. We HAVE TO SHOW THAT FACE TO THE WORLD. Because I fear much of the world now assumes Americans are just all in this together and that bush somehow speak for most of us and because we're part of him, we're part of the problem and every bit as guilty as he is. The better and more understandable to launch another, even more horrifying terrorist strike somewhere on our shores. The rest of the world needs to know that there are SUBSTANTIAL numbers of Americans who SHARE THEIR VIEWS on this, NOT THE VIEWS OF OUR "GOVERNMENT."

It may not help that much, but it may be enough to ameliorate someone's lust for revenge from somewhere overseas...

I, for one, am among MANY here, I'm sure, who dread the thought that WE who objected, and tried to stop this before it started, and fought it every step of the way since, will be revenge-punished along with those directly deserving of such possible revenge.

I want as many people, as many nations, as possible, to know that I DID NOT APPROVE THIS. I WAS NEVER PART OF THIS. THESE HORRORS WERE COMMITTED IN MY NAME WITHOUT MY SUPPORT OR AUTHORIZATION. I DID EVERYTHING I COULD TO PREVENT THIS.

Somehow, projecting ahead to the time after my death, when I'll be able to see much more, and to know where bush and his greedy aggressor friends are going to have to spend eternity, is not quite comfort enough.

[Beam Me Up]

11. Thank you, calimary!

This is how I see it:

WE ARE BEING DRIVEN INTO A DARK FUTURE. I personally believe that the events of 9/11 were what is called a "psychic driver"--regardless of who perpetrated them, the SPECTACLE of those events are being USED as such by the oil-soaked corporate-military-industrial complex. 9/11 is being USED as the "defining moment"--A NEW MYTHOLOGY--to JUSTIFY America's headlong drive to tyranny. I am convinced that if another, far worse, event occurs our job of changing the course driving us to this Dark Future will be made almost impossible. WE MUST NOT WAIT FOR THAT EVENT.

I and many people here on DU, in this country and around the world participated in massive peaceful protests against the war in Iraq before it even started. I saw something like 300,000 people march down Market Street in San Francisco and I HEARD THEIR ROARS OF DEFIANCE ECHOING OFF THE STEEL AND GLASS TOWERS. My voice was one of them. This, too, was a defining moment; a moment of personal mythology defining who I am and what I stand for and believe in.

Now more than ever, I think we need to do this. We need to tell everyone we know that we MUST PROTEST OPENLY THE RUINATION OF OUR COUNTRY BY CORRUPTION FROM THE HIGHEST LEVELS ON DOWN.

Those of us who oppose what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan and Haiti--AND WASHINGTON DC--and many other places around the world, must begin to build alliances. We must begin to understand that THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES. The people of Afghanistan ARE NOT OUR ENEMIES. Our enemies are not the indigenous populations of resource rich nations! Our enemies are those who OPPOSE Freedom and Democracy and the Rule of Law!

Bush's father drew a "line in the sand"--this was another 'defining' moment, another myth. Bush* the younger has said, "You are either with us or you are against us." He was speaking for his class--not for me, not for you, not for the freedom loving people in this country or around the world.

IT IS TIME FOR US TO CREATE OUR OWN DEFINING MOMENT: It is time for us to create a NEW mythology that we will carry forward into a BRIGHT future, a future filled with the awareness that OUR LVIES are OUR responsibility; This Earth is OUR responsibility; The peoples of the world are NOT our enemies but our brothers and sisters who, though different, are more like us than not.

We have so much to learn. We have so much to give ourselves and one another. We can NOT let MAD MEN DEFINE HUMAN DESTINY!

Edit: typo

[anarchy1999]

21. Thank you for saying it all for me!

I believe the time is now. I really do not believe we can afford to wait for the "election/selection" in November.

[laura888]

7. Yes. I am with you. I am ready to sacrifice my lucrative job as...

...a military contractor, doing work that I love, in order to remove myself from this machine that has gone awry.

My plan was to send a mass email to my company on my last day of work, to explain that I cannot take part in this madness.

I am involved in creating software applications to trace "terrorists." Leaving would be my way of showing that I cannot support this vague and disastrous policy of "fighting terrorism."

I am starting to make plans so that I am not financially devastated by this action.

[anarchy1999]

19. Good for you! I quit a job I spent a year chasing after because

I could not reconcile my beliefs with selling to the military and the government every day. I even visited the military bases. 4 weeks after the trip into the heart of the beast, I quit.

Anyone know what city is the 2nd largest government town in the nation outside of DC?

[Beam Me Up]

23. It is a sacrifice!

When I was 19-20 years old the saying was, "Turn on, Tune in and Drop out." Being young, I took those words quite seriously. I understood that "dropping out" didn't mean sticking my head in the sand--quite the contrary. What it meant for me was "dropping out" of a mind-set, a "reality structure," that had been created for me by an established social order that did not actually reflect or represent my values.

One of the ways that manifested was that I REFUSED 1) to graduate from college (although I continued to educate myself independently) and 2) I REFUSED to work for corporations. I have, essentially, worked at the same small business for over 25 years! I do not own my own home. The vehicle I drive is a beat up rusted out old pick up truck. I live well enough, but not at all high on the hog. These are sacrifices I've made throughout my life. They are my 'life style'--and although I sometimes covet the things money can buy, I never even for a moment believe that I could, or would want to, ever do the things one has to do in this system to acquire that money.

On Edit:

Here is a question for you: Could your skills be used to help us in some way? For example, I don't know anything really about CELLULAR TECHNOLOGY. I've been wondering how we--activists--could begin to communicate with one another wirelessly. Obviously direct cell to cell phone is one means, but what about the ability to have 'channels' so one cell phone could broad cast simultaneously, say, to hundreds if not thousands of others? Think of the ORGANIZING POTENTIAL for that! In-the-mooment communication between individuals within a large demonstration and the larger demonstration itself.

[laura888]

49. yes, I know a few others who have "dropped out"

or rather "jumped off" the military industrial complex gravey train. I don't know them well, but I do know they took a pay cut.

When I took the job, I was not thrilled to be working for the military, but saw so many others doing it, and thought I could do it.

Now, however, I realize that all of that training, all those billions $ spent on the military every year since 1950 or something, and we STILL don't have the intrastructure in place to keep Abu Gharib from happening.

Plus, it looks like at GTMO, torture is probably on-going.

How can I possibly be a piece of this?

Unfortunately, my expertise is not on the back-end side (I design interfaces), so I couldn't help with your idea. But its a GREAT idea!

[rdfi-defi]

25. after being homeless for a short while,

i was convinced to move back in with some of my family in another town. upon arriving in that town i took a job at a local manufacturing plant. i thought, at the least i can get med/dental insure in 3 months even if the pay sucks. the work was new (so therefore interesting to me) but repetitive. i could not determine what the thousands of parts i was producing were used for so i asked a co-worker. parts for cruise missiles, artillery and other military applications. i was sick, i quit because i could not be the means for such ends.

follow your instincts, if they tell you to quit, then quit and never regret making that decision based on love for your fellow human beings.

sorry for going off topic

[Beam Me Up]

29. I don't regard that as the least bit off topic.

We need to make these sacrifices apart of our own NEW MYTHOLOGY, a new understanding of who we are and what we really want.

I don't want war. I don't want a civilization based on non-renewable resources. I don't want a civilization that is not wholesomely integrated into the Earth's natural environment. I do not want pollution.

I want a world that values and respects differences. I want a world where people have opportunities to live and grow. I want a world that recognizes there are REAL limits to growth. I want a world that recognizes that TRUE WEALTH IS QUALITATIVE NOT QUANTITATIVE.

These are the things I want and don't want. AND I am willing to sacrifice to see the seeds of this new world sewn. I understand that the world that is is not the world I want--and I understand that the world I live in supports what I do not want. I want to change and I can change and I will change and I have changed and I will continue to change and I will continue to agitate and organize to see that these changes continue.

To a NEW Beginning--a new beginning for a NEW America and a New World.

:toast:

[Turanga Leela]

9. I reached my turning point last night, too.

I laid awake in bed last night, awash in guilt and shame. I suspect many of us did.


I have two small children. When they are old enough to understand, what will I tell them?

My choices are crystal clear: LEAVE or FIGHT.


I love my country, but I love my children more. If the day comes when they are endangered, I WILL leave.

Until then, I vow that I will fight LIKE HELL.


This must not stand. I say NO MORE.


"Screw your courage to the sticking point, and we'll not fail."

[Pachamama]

33. Sister - I'm with you...

I didn't sleep last night either - I wrote letters to Newspapers, gave Money to Kerry and Moveon.org and joined the Underground and swore to myself that I will fight and not rest until we have gotten rid of these evil fascists..

I too am the Mother of two including a newborn...what kind of world is going to be there for them?

I love the USA and the Constitution for which it stands...the Bush Administration is anything but American and have trashed the Constitution and International Law...

I'm not sleeping until our country and world is safe again for our babies...the real "Terrorists" is this administration...I hope they are all exposed and tried (even if its in abstentia) of War Crimes and crimes against Humanity...Bush, Cheney, Condi, Rumsfeld, Wolfie', Ashcroft et al...

[anarchy1999]

46. Welcome to DU!

Thank you for your post.

[rdfi-defi]

12. even after...

our republic was stolen......

even after the worst attack on the mainland u.s. in history........

even after the suspension and suppression of our civil liberties and our constitution....

even after the launching of a world war, which defines its targets with loose language and ambiguity.......

even after these events (and much more) we have not acted with cohesion, i agree we have arrived at a moment that calls for massive non-violent mobilization.



"And what is it but fragments of your own self you would discard that you may become free?
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
You cannot erase it by burning your law books nor by washing the foreheads of your judges, though you pour the sea upon them.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed.
For how can a tyrant rule the free and the proud, but for a tyranny in their own freedom and a shame in their own pride?
And if it is a care you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed upon you.
And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.
Verily all things move within your being in constant half embrace, the desired and the dreaded, the repugnant and the cherished, the pursued and that which you would escape.
These things move within you as lights and shadows in pairs that cling.
And when the shadow fades and is no more, the light that lingers becomes a shadow to another light.
And thus your freedom when it loses its fetters becomes itself the fetter of a greater freedom."

-Kahlil Gibran

[Beam Me Up]

14. Truly incredible words from Gibran, thank you!

Clearly the movement toward freedom is not only an external movement. Something within ourselves must awaken to how we participate in our own oppression and thereby the oppression of others. Bush is not Free. Morgan, Rothchild, DuPont, Rockefeller -- the IMF, the Trilateral Commission -- Enron, Exon, Mobile, Standard, Carlyle group -- NONE of these are Free. They are slaves to their greed and ignorance and fear.

But ultimately the most important question is, Who am I? What is it that lives and breathes and comes into the world THROUGH ME, through my actions, through my thoughts and feelings? Is there within myself some call toward a state of being that knows what true freedom is and where it lies? Can I hear that? Can I in any way respond to it even if I do?

The time has come for a NEW DEFINING MOMENT. I've been saying this repeatedly here on DU: This is not only an American issue.We ARE responsible for a massive corporate military industrial complex that WE BUILT and FUNDED and ARMED. We allowed this, we were frightened into believing it was necessary. And for this reason only, we have a special OBLIGATION in what must now occur world wide. But the point is, this new defining moment must, ultimately, be a GLOBAL moment. A moment when the peoples of the world come together to redefine WHAT IS POSSIBLE.

Already it may be too late. Already environmentally and perhaps other ways the situation may be beyond our ability to change. IF that is the case, well, then so be it. All the more reason why WE--those of us who can see at least a little bit--must declare our connection to something higher than mere self interest!

[anarchy1999]

47. You are so right, we "Americans", went to sleep.

And yes, it may already be too late.

"All the more reason why WE--those of us who can see at least a little bit--must declare our connection to something higher than mere self interest!"

All the more reason to take a stand. Go to www.grannyd.com she will make your day!

[corporatewhore]

15. we need to recognize the anti arab racism in our society see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1555436

[Beam Me Up]

24. THANK YOU!!

Racism is inherent in this nation. We must never forget that however honorable our founders were in many respects, many of them were RACISTS. This nation was stolen from the indigenous people who lived here before us--people that we deceived and persecuted to the point of genocide.

Racism, however, is not only an American issue, an American fault or problem. Racism--and hate for 'the other' whether it is politically or economically or religiously based--is present in many cultures and peoples around the globe. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE CAN DO IS IDENTIFY IT IN OURSELVES. I am a white man. I admit that I have within me racist tendencies. I see them. I know them. I observe them.

I also know that it is possible to go beyond this racism in myself. On a very personal level, I tend to not be trusting of other people in general--even others of my own race. So I have learned that it takes me a while to get to know someone, to get beyond differences in class, culture, gender, race--to get to know who a human being is. But one thing I know deep down is that, however different we may be, we human beings are ONE THING; one living force on this planet. And each of us has within a spark of something higher, something some call 'divine'. Love, forgiveness, understanding--these are human qualities and possibilites that we all share.

[Tinoire]

20. I'm with you! For those who don't know me

I'll be the one pulling that rusty old guillotine behind me ;)

[seemslikeadream]

22. I'm with ya

This morning was it for me.

[Pachamama]

31. This morning was it for me too...call me an American Insurgent MOM

Looks like Rummy & Dimwit have finally woken the real sleeping Giant -Mama Bear's...We are awaking from our slumber and we are madder than hell...

[seemslikeadream]

38. AIM

American Insurgent MOM

[Zorra]

32. Great Idea. I've been on a 3 year strike/boycott

Since the Bu$h selection. If the people do not take direct action to stop fascism in our country, it will soon spread beyond our ability to stop it. We must do what the German people failed to do in the 1930's - stop fascism.

[Pachamama]

34. Ever ask yourself - What if I woke up in Nazi Germany circa 1941...

....What would I do? That's the question we each face and now need to decide on how we as Patriot's are going to save this Nation? This is one of those defining moment's in time everyone...how are we going to shape history and the World through our thoughts, intentions and actions....

[Zorra]

37. Yeah, thought about this most of my life.

I wrote this song a long time ago. Too long.

Same Old Bar

Here it is September,
and we're playing in the same old bar.
I see your picture in the paper,
and I'm wondering just who you are.
Some old politician man,
selling bombs across the sea,
are you the Pentagon, an oil man,
or AT&T.

Well I'd rather have a good dog,
than a brand new car,
and I'd rather have a forest,
than a street in my back yard.
Hey Mr. Workingman,
you been working too long, too hard,
won't you just sit down for awhile,
make the boss man show his cards.

They take our money, and they
fly to the moon.
I hear they're raising
the cost of living soon.
Television propaganda
keeps us dancing to the same old tune
We pay for war with our taxes,
and they'll be going up again -
Real soon.

Now here it is December,
still playing in that same old bar,
Seems like nothing ever changes,
can't change the way things are.
Same old middle class blindness,
Same old upper class lies,
People when you gonna listen,
seems like you been hypnotized,
People when you gonna listen,
People when you gonna rise.

[Beam Me Up]

39. Great song, Zora! Thank you!!

People, when you gonna listen,

People when you gonna RISE!

:toast:

[Zorra]

45. Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. A lot of folks didn't seem to understand it

at the time that it was written. (Here's another, dedicated to women, especially my sisters from Code Pink):

She's the girl next door,
You know who I'm talking about,
She's got a crazy idea,
She's gonna change the world.

Have I met you before?
Thirty somethin' years ago -
picking flowers in the rain
in San Francisco.
Was it the summer of love,
or 1969?
Were we winning the war,
with agent orange sunshine?

She's the girl next door,
you know who I'm talking about
she's got a crazy idea
she's gonna change the world.

Twenty somethin'years old,
She's afraid they're gonna drop the bomb,
and turn Iraq, into a Vietnam.
SHE'S GONNA MARCH FOR PEACE!
And find the bread to feed the poor.
MAKE THE WORLD STOP FIGHTING!
That's the girl next door.

She's the girl next door,
you know who I'm talking about,
she's got a crazy idea,
she's gonna change the world.

She's got stars in her eyes,
she's got love in her heart,
she's got this crazy idea,
making peace through out the world
Oh, what a crazy idea,
making peace throughout the world.
Oh what a crazy idea,
bringing peace to all the world.
Oh, what a crazy idea.

Anyone that wants a recording of Same Old Bar or The Girl Next Door can PM me and I will try to send. I have no idea how to do this, though. If you know how to send music over the internet, please let me know how to do it. I don't care about profit from music -

I want my country back.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. The whole world's watching, America, and the time is short.

From the fifth leaflet of The White Rose:

"Germans! Do you and your children want to suffer the same fate that befell the Jews? Do you want to be judged by the same standards are your traducers? Are we to be forever a nation which is hated and rejected by all mankind? No. Dissociate yourselves from National Socialist gangsterism. Prove by your deeds that you think otherwise. A new war of liberation is about to begin. The better part of the nation will fight on our side. Cast off the cloak of indifference you have wrapped around you. Make the decision before it is too late. Do not believe the National Socialist propoganda which has driven the fear of Bolshevism into your bones. Do not believe that Germany's welfare is linked to the victory of national Socialism for good or ill. A criminal regime cannot achieve a German victory. Separate yourselves in time from everything connected with National Socialism. In the aftermath a terrible but just judgment will be meted out to those who stayed in hiding, who were cowardly and hesitant."

http://www.jlrweb.com/whiterose/leaffiveeng.html

[rdfi-defi]

36. the whole world is watching, so keep up the effort doing whatever it is

you (meaning everyone) do

[rdfi-defi]

40. c'mon i know there are some duers here that are positively charged.....

BRING IT.

[Ladyhawk]

41. Kick this thread.

:kick:

[markomalley]

42. kick

:kick:

[anarchy1999]

48. The Mario quote is a must read and a heart breaker.

Why are we all still fighting this same battle? I just want to know why? I'm blaming my mom and dad and I am almost 50. This is so upside down.

[G_j]

50. I wrote a fairly in depth response last night

to your post and lost the whole thing for some reason. So I will try again, but I will have to make it much more brief.

I was having this same discussion with a friend at a peace vigil last week. We both agreed that something needed to be done.

There is a sacred tradition of non-violent civil disobedience and direct action in America: take the people who have been trying to close down the SOA (SOA Watch) or the Code Pink women who have been disrupting Rumsfeld just for examples.

There are many people who have studied and applied the tactics of MLK and others. The number of activists who are down with CD is fairly limited at DU. Just post something about the people arrested at the SOA and you'll find there a great many people who are not in alignment with the principals of CD.

I do not see DU as being the core for the kind of movement you are speaking of. A spoke among many spokes is more realistic. My suggestion is to extensively network with other groups and bring that knowledge, inspiration and information here. I know that there are many people out here thinking about what you are talking about. Networking is the key IMO. Something like this will take a coalition to be effective. There are many things to consider and people with experience of putting themselves "on the line" are needed.
I have experience in non-violence training which is also an important component. Look around and I am sure you will find we are not alone in feeling something must be done.

[Beam Me Up]

52. Thanks for your input G_j

I'm glad to see that there are people here at DU who will consider direct action. I want to re-emphasize that what I'm thinking about is PREPARATION and ORGANIZATION for a broad action to be taken IF or WHEN a particular event takes place. I have not named that event and think we should have a list of events. The point being that the establishment will not be able to 'prepare' for this--it will be an immediate reaction by US to something THEY do.

[Roon]

51. I'll pledge....

one arrest in Denver.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. A massive general strike may be the LAST peaceful attempt made by....

...the American people to overthrow an illegal government that has turned the U. S. into a rogue nation.

Depending on the NeoCon Junta's response, we could find ourselves spiralling out of control into open revolution or civil war.

These are trying times indeed.

[G_j]

55. a general strike

would certainly be the most effective and safest action available to us. The question of course is, could there be the critical mass needed to make it successful?

[Beam Me Up]

56. Help me think about this...

What does "successful" mean as you think about it?

How many people would be required to make it meet your idea of success?

How would it be organized?

Anything else you'd like to add.

[G_j]

58. a good question

What does "successful" mean?

I guess the real question would be, What is the goal?
I'll just off the top of my head present one:
The people demand impeachment and will strike until such proceedings are seriously begun.

(I imagine that the goal of a general strike would have to go beyond simple media attention, that we would be looking for some sort of concrete results.)

How would it be organized?

The best model I can think of right now is Move On.
Is a 'general strike' too radical for them? Probably, but as events unfold, who knows? Of course, one way or the other, the internet would be the best means of connecting people.

Anything else you'd like to add.

I think a general strike would be a great democratic course of action. There is clear, indisputable evidence of criminal, unconstitutional conduct on the part of this administration making such an action entirely justified and legitimate. Something that could be added to this, although riskier as far as the law goes, is tax resistance.

[markomalley]

57. How about this...

...around labor day, everybody invested in the stock market (directly or through 401k's) completely divest and transfer into cash reserves. The effect on the market would be catastrophic and would send the economy into a tailspin. There is no way that * could survive that kind of maneuver.

[Thoth]

59. Absolutely! As Thomas Paine said...

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." If there's any sign that the November election is 'compromised', and Bush is re-installed, by Diebold or otherwise, I'm heading down to Washington (with tent and camping gear) to just peacefully sit there (perhaps just outside the White House, Pentagon or some other public space), with hopefully millions of our compatriots, until the fascists resign and we start over on the road to legitimate govt. It must be peaceful. But massive.

[IHaveADream]

60. I like the 4th of July idea . . .

It gives everyone time to organize, get permits, coordinate enetertainment, a national holiday about our country's true meaning, FREEDOM. What better way to express our freedom than by a massive peaceful demonstration calling for bush to resign and for our government to take responsibility for the mistakes of this administration! I think there should be local demonstrations as well as the main event down in Washington.

[kimchi]

61. Absolutely

Yesterday I resolved to no longer be compliant with any speck of wrongness on the part of the Bush cabal.

Maybe I'll just have a damn BBQ Bush Bash on the fourth of july this year. Loud, public, and often is my new motto. It is time to take our country back.

[Beam Me Up]

65. A BUSH BBQ !! What a great idea!

Loud public and often.

People who know me are finding me more and more vocal about what is going on. (I've never been particularly mousy about my political opinions.) People ask me how I am and I tell them: I'M ANGRY. I'm angry about what is going on and I'm DOUBLY angry that what IS going on is not accurately represented in the corporate media.

So, if THEY aren't going to do their job of educating the people--then WE are going to have to educate one another.

[Eloriel]

62. I'm sure there are millions of Americans who would participate

what's needed, of course, is someone -- or many someone's -- to organize it.

Also, regarding "where" to stage these, my thought is that there are two primary centers of influence who are responsible for the mess we're in today (other than Bush and the neocons themselves, of course), by virtue of the fact that they have been criminally derelict in their duties, and they are:

* Congress
* The Media

So, IMO, a general strike combined with protests outside any and all Congressional local offices and ANY and all mainstream media (newspapers, TV stations, radio stations) would be appropriate.

And when you come right down to it, even "the good guys" in Congress haven't been nearly "good enough" on these issues and so they shouldn't be exempt.

Also, I think your "list" of triggers should be rather wide.

Let's do it.

[Beam Me Up]

66. Oh, I like that: Congress and Media

I've been thinking for over a year that we need to begin to hold the media directly accountable. I've had fantasies of thousands of people surrounding their local TV stations--something they could hardly ignore and would certainly be news worthy.

Hadn't thought about Congress--including those, as you say, who are "good guys." Barbara Lee is my Congress woman and she has fairly accurately represented my concerns. GO BARBARA. But I would have no objection to supporting her more EMPHATICALLY.

I am interested in your thoughts regarding triggers. What would you consider to be good ones? (I'm thinking of starting a thread on this topic by itself.)

Thanks for your reply.

[sandboxface]

63. What does it mean to be radical?

This is a question I am investigating with a friend. I normally don't think of myself as a radical, however, some people do. In brief, I consider the current policies and actions of the United States as RADICAL. I also agree with the overall feeling of this thread. Does that make me radical? What does it mean to be radical?

My friend has an idea of where radicalism leads. I'm not so sure I agree.


friend:
OK, let’s not be too radical here. Radicalism begins with utopianism and ends, in general, with genocide. (The same is true for reactionism.)

Are you willing to sacrifice for the greater good?
Are you with us or agin’ us?

Mark is not going to play that game. Neither, I think, should you, but you are perfectly free to do as you will.


my response:
I am not speaking of a utopia defined by duality.

Sacrifice can be many things. It can be simplistic and it can be radical. If I know one thing, it’s that you don't get anything unless you pay for it. The circumstances will continue to get worse until Americans, and the rest of the world, are willing to pay for a movement in a different direction. Some may spend more time with their kids, others may shut down a freeway. Sacrifice, to each his own.

[Beam Me Up]

64. "Radical"

Hello sandboxface and welcome to DU.

In the context of political jargon, "radical" means someone favouring extreme change--a sudden and significant, fundamentally revolutionary change in government and society.

What I am proposing--a general strike and/or civil disobedience to be initiated on very short notice using today's technology--isn't "radical" in my opinion, but I'm sure many would disagree. It certainly is unusual--but it is only an extension of the kinds of political organization already taking place via the internet. I am not advocating a "revolutionary" overthrow of the US Government or the Constitution. Quite the contrary. What I'm advocating is the organization of a kind of PREPAREDNESS; an agreement that IF certain conditions (to be determined) arise THEN we the American people will, en mass, take certain non-violent actions that may include work stoppages and non violent civil-disobedience.

I wish I were knowledgeable and articulate enough to spell out what I see and feel regarding what is happening in the United States today. In many respects, it reminds me of 1968, which was a year of turmoil. I suspect that analogies with Germany before the rise of Nazism are also accurate. Many of us here on DU feel that the system of checks and balances that are meant to stabilize our society of diverse opinions has become corrupted. It seems to many of us that a "radical" right-wing neoconservative form of fascism has taken hold of our government and is overwhelming the system WITH THE INTENTION of creating conditions that will lead to the dismantling of our Constitution itself. We are very suspicious of the way the current maladministration came to power; we are very suspicious of the events of 9/11 and the lack of a full and transparent investigation; we are appalled at the way those events have been used to erode our civil liberties and substantially effect foreign policy and we are certain that we were lied to regarding the reasons for a preemptive attack against another sovereign nation. Moreover, we are extremely concerned as it seems that, although most all of this has been 'reported' by the corporate media, nevertheless the EXTREME SERIOUSNESS of these and many other situations and events are not being presented to the American people. More often than not, it seems as if the media is PROTECTING the current maladministration, THUS FUTHER ERODING THE SYSTEM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THEREFORE I, and I suspect many other people, are beginning to feel that at some point WE are going to have to make a very clear statement--as Mario Savio did--that UNLESS the system begins to address our concerns, IT WILL BE PREVENTED FROM WORKING AT ALL.

Those who would make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

Edit: spelling/typos

[peacetalksforall]

67. Show the world, show the world soon.

I support a July 4th message.

I also think something peaceful should be done quick in addition to a July 4th message.

A call to gather in areas of little towns and big cities without a big need to travel....without signs, without shouts, without anger...just a chorus of phrases quietly repeated....

along the lines of

no imperialism, no war, little children, forgive.
Something as gentle as the gentlest peace songs we have listened to.

Not to exclude other demonstrations, only to pick up on the urgency of showing the world...that there are some who don't approve.

[PaDUer]

68. KICK n/t

[mike_c]

69. this IS a defining moment and we must fight the pig bastards...

...who've brought us here. I will support a general strike to oust the PNAC imperialists from power, but that's only the beginning. America's foreign policy is rotten to the core. If we don't turn it inside out, expose ALL the shabby secrets, and start over, the pig bastards will just wait in the shadows like they've done for the last 30 years, moving their evil agenda ahead incrementally when we're not looking, and ultimately coming back into real power.

[Beam Me Up]

70. There is a long-range need for change and a short-range need for guidance

Giving this a Monday morning :kick:

[sandboxface]

71. Kick in the....

post.

[kimchi]

72. kickin it for change

[IkeWarnedUs]

73. Another kick because we have to do something

I'm not sure about a massive general strike. I talked to my husband and a couple of friends about it and the biggest obsticle for them is that they are blessed with employers they like and respect and don't want to hurt them.

What about a "general strike" against oil/gas companies. With summer here, I think it would be practical to stage a boycot of sorts against buying gas.

I am thinking of something akin to the Montgomery bus boycotts, except this time we all opt to take public transportation rather than drive. Just like the people of Montgomery did, we find other ways to get by, cutting into oil and gas sales.

If at all possible, take public transportation, bicycle and/or walk where you have to go. If those options are not available (or practical) then form car pools to get where you HAVE TO GO and don't go where you don't really, really have to.

I am in the suburbs of Chicago, not far from the city, so I know it is easier for me than many other DU'ers. But think about what you can do to cut back. If you HAVE to drive to get groceries, try to just go shopping once a month and/or see if your neighbors would want to make the trip together. If there is no public transportation available to where you work, find out who lives and works near you and make arrangements to drive together. Talk to your coworkers and neighbors both. It may be that matches are more obvious at one end than the other (coworkers vs. neighbors). In other words, you may find a neighbor who works close to where you do or a coworker who lives in the same direction.

Don't run your air conditioning this summer if at all possible (health reasons excepted of course). This is an area that does hit me hard. I am overweight and menopausal and not built for heat, but I am going to try to go all summer without A/C. Make a point of shutting off lights and unplugging appliances you don't really need. It's going to be hot inside, so spend your evenings sitting outside with candles, tiki torches and/or solar lights. Or take a stroll around your neighborhood - and shut off the lights and TV when you do.

Cancel any vacation plans that involve flying and/or driving more than 50 miles. Take your vacation, but find things to do that don't involve traveling. City or country, there are always points of interest to check out. Or find the closest hotel/motel with a pool and bring lots of reading material (plenty of great books out now).

I know this all sounds very 70's, but the timing for this couldn't be better. With crude oil at $40 a barrel and gas prices going through the roof, this is an action all Americans can get behind - whether Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative. We can all approach our family, friends, neighbors and coworkers to get on board. We are all in this together and all affected by it.

Then, as we all spend more time together sitting outside and carpooling we can talk about the relationships the won't talk about on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the media. Like the ties between the House of Saud and the House of Bush, Cheney and the oil giants, Condi and Chevron. A foot in the door, so to speak.

It wouldn't necessarily be easy, but I believe that since 9/11 the American public has been looking for something to rally around. Some way to stand up and make a difference.

What is Bush going to do? Tell America it is patriotic to go out and drive and use their A/C?

[Pachamama]

74. America and the World need a 21st Century "Boston Tea Party"...

...I'm shocked that I haven't heard any talk of protests etc. here or abroad or especially in the Arab/Muslim world...Where is the outrage? Is anything being planned?

I'm feeling like a taxpayer who is being taxed without representation...It makes me sick to think that my tax dollars are paying for torture, rape and murder...