The mainstream press is ignoring the big Rumsfeld story...

[Junkdrawer]

The BIG story today was that Levin, Kennedy, Byrd, and McCain clearly see the big story in this scandal to be:

-> Who hired the private contractors ?

-> What did they tell the guards to do ?

and

-> Who did they report to ?


McCain pressed Rumsfeld over and over for answers and Rumsfeld was mum.

But I have yet to see ANY major network cover this aspect of the story.

[freeminder]

1. couldn't agree more !

the same issue randi has been on for days if not weeks now. Who do they obey, country or company??

Combine this with the act Bush* signed that makes all actions undertaken in Iraq non-prosecutable.

Nice, really nice.

Rummy can resign and head up one of Carlyle's subsidiaries and go do some private torturing. He's good at it I bet. And loves to watch it at night too.
:puke:

[enough]

2. We need to let these senators know

that WE heard them.

[doni_georgia]

32. Write them today! I will

http://www.geocities.com/sendhimpacking/
Send Rush Packing

[chicaloca]

3. not to be picky, but....

"Press" does not mean "networks." Networks are the bastards who broadcast TV news, the press is strictly print journalism, which is not as conservative and inaccurate as TV journalism. (There have actually been loads of studies showing that people who primarily get their news from TV are a lot more conservative than people who read papers and online sources.)

I actually just read a Yahoo headline article that briefly mentioned that Rummy wasn't really forthcoming, although being the AP, they tried to kind of tiptoe around it. I generally find the AP to be one of the most ridiculously conservative "print" outlets (if you can call them print) but we'll have to wait until the papers come out tomorrow to see how the mainstream press actually covers this. Of course, there's always the danger that they'll just run the AP story, which would really suck. :mad:


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040507/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/abuse_mps__role_3

<snip>

It is a role that military police are not trained to perform and are prohibited from doing, the Army says; that led members of Congress to press Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Friday, largely unsuccessfully, for details on what role MPs played at the troubled prison.


Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., asked Rumsfeld whether military intelligence or the MPs' direct commanders had authority over the military police prison guards at Abu Ghraib and what the MPs' instructions were.


Rumsfeld said authority over the guards had "shifted over a period of time."


U.S. military and civilian leaders have said repeatedly that the shocking acts depicted in widely circulated photographs of prisoners being sexually humiliated at the Abu Ghraib detention compound are gross violations of military regulations about the handling of prisoners.

[Postman]

4. kick...

this is a really important point....

Who hired the private contractors?

What did they tell the MP's?

Who did they report to?

[ConcernedCanuk]

5. Just Murikkan Media, the rest of the world has Rummy front page

.
.
.


al-Jazeera

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4D19123-9DD3-11D1-B44E-006097071264.htm

The Toronto Star

www.thestar.com/

The Globe and Mail

Do you think U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld should resign over Iraq?


Yes - - 16663 votes - - (79 %)

No - - 4525 votes - - (21 %)

Total Votes: 21188

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/home POLL on right side of page

BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/default.stm

The Age - Australia

http://www.theage.com.au/index.html

LYNNDIE'S LEGACY

[kaitykaity]

6. Great work on this post.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[seemslikeadream]

7. At least this ending to their reign

has portrayed them for what they really are.

[Merlin]

8. BULLSHIT! It's a phony diversion. They're looking elsewhere for scapegoats

Evidently I'm the only Dem who can see clearly the importance of the literal, publicly announced connection between Bush administration POLICIES and these abuses. I'm the only one who thinks they are important.

Everybody else I guess wants to focus on which contractor or which general or which major or which sargeant.

IT WAS NOT SOME LOWLY UNDERLINGS!
IT WAS BUSH ADMIN POLICIES!

Why in the hell can't the people on this board GET IT?????

I will not shut up until I know for certain that DUers are starting to focus intelligently on this issue.

SPECIFICALLY: At the outset of combat two years ago, Rumsfeld announced:

1. that detainees in Afghanistan "do not have any rights" under the Geneva Conventions, which are "outdated",
2. that there will be no formal hearings to determine whether detainees are prisoners of war or unlawful combatants (as GCs require),
3. that Army regulations on the interrogation of prisoners no longer apply,
4. that detainees may be held incommunicado,
5. that detainees may be deprived of legal representation, even if they are US citizens,
6. that--even after all of the previous standards of conduct had been waived--no new procedures were put in place to ensure against violations of conduct.

Those POLICIES produced the ABUSE!. Get it?

Sorry if you are offended, but godam it wake up and smell the coffee! This will not be seen as a mark against Bush unless we make the clear connection.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Of course you are right, and any international tribunal would agree.

The problem is that the literal-minded American public, and the picture-driven media that feed them, can't handle even this minor level of conceptual abstraction.

[Merlin]

10. Yes, but WE can and MUST.

We have GOT to press these points. Otherwise this will be chalked up to an unfortunate incident for which the Bushies are not responsible.

If we let that happen, we Dems DESERVE TO LOSE. We are not fit to lead this country if we can't focus on this clearly and make our points strongly.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Two points:

1.) Rummy today said that the pResident has declared most (e.g. non-criminal???) detainees to be POWs deserving of Geneva rights protections.

2.) The best way to get to the heart of the scandal is, IMHO, to follow the MI/Private Contractors back to Rumsfeld.

[Mz Pip]

12. There's more

This administration sent soldiers who were poorly trained and ill equipped. With all the blather that falsely connected Iraq to 9/11 it's no wonder our people over there decided to enact a bit of nasty revenge on who ever they could get their hands on. Who cares if a few rag heads get tortured. They deserve it. They were responsible for 9/11.

That's the mentality that lead to this. This was never about "liberation." Liberation was just a word that masked the stench of what was really happening.

It was not just the policies, it was the mindset that was established before we ever fired a shot.

We are so screwed if Bush gets re-elected. His re election will be a F*c you! to the world community. It won't be just Bush who is hated. It will be all of us because we rewarded his slime with a second term.

MzPip
:dem:

[Merlin]

13. Amen to that! n/t

.

[Generator]

14. I agree and if you read the New Yorker article

It's obvious that the CIA and private contractors were controlling the interrogations.

They called them O.G.A.-other government agencies, CIA and it's paramilitary employees. There is a account of an Iraqi that they interrogated to death and for any follow-will never have existed because he was never entered into the system and didn't have a number.

This is a secret government with a secret army, death squads and torture.

While everyone wants to spend their time icking after Ms. England yuckiness, this is the real story.

Do you really think they get the chance to do this systematically without support from higher ups, or without a huge BLIND EYE?

I agree, wake up.

[Must_B_Free]

20. THe smoking gun is in Rummy's "Warrior Ethos" program

Not that this program taught torture, but what it did was to instill the corporate ethic of milking the employees for profits.

Rummy consulted with Israel because he wanted to be able to occupy these places with less troops than the army proscribed. Shinseki was an expert - he knew what it would take. Rummy thought that withthe Israeli training, they could do it with 1/3 the troops.

There is a suggestion via the mysterious murder of several troop wives by their husbands that ther may have been drugs of aggression expiramented with.

Look for Kevin Byrnes and Warrior Ethos.

[truth2power]

16. And remember when Rummy made that statement

about the combatants (or whatever) in Afghanistan, that the US wasn't in any position to be taking prisoners, and it wasn't too long after that that they were found suffocated in the shipping containers. Remember that? Course, that went down the memory hole too.

[bpilgrim]

24. where do you think this thread leads... if allowed to be examiend to its

BITTER END?


and CREW!

i think you may be preach'n to the choir here ;->

:hi:

peace

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. Remember all the times Rummy has talked about how important the Guantanamo

prisoners are, how much great info about terrorist threats we are getting out of them! Our electrical generators and rape rooms are working overtime to get this great info!

[Miss Authoritiva]

15. Does anybody have any links to stories about

Israeli MI/translators/interrogators being "on loan" in Iraq? I've seen comments in passing in various blogs but no links. Thanks.

[bobthedrummer]

17. Yep, them mercenaries are civilian contractors.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[Gin]

19. the report lists the names of the CACI employees...and what

the charges and recommendations for them were. One lost his job and clearance. One didn't have a security clearance to lose. No word of prosecutions. The men are probably back home having a beer with the buddies tonight.

[bobthedrummer]

21. There were 37 interrogators at that one prison according to today's

testimony from Rumsfeld-what are their names?

[randr]

18. Right o the money

And who do we know who has ties to The School of the Americas?

[KharmaTrain]

22. Dare I Say, The Time Isn't Right...

This story appears to have some very, very long legs. If there's a "Shock & Awe" in this invasion, here it is...a year later and not quite what Rummy had in mind.

You could see the slime merchant innoculate himself and this regime for the flood of videos, pictures and stories we're sure to hear over the days to come. It's then that the contractors issue will get the spotlight, and not for what we hope.

These profiteers are in an ideal position...free from any prosecution...to play scapegoat if needed to take the heat off of this regime. Look at the KBR/Coal To Newcastle/Oil To The Iraqi fiasco. They got a big fine (which I'm sure has never been paid) and it was THEIR fault.

I see some contrator being singled out here...an out of control company. Rummy fires 'em, several of the contractors get show trials that end up wiped out in a couple years (no harm no foul) and the contractor comes back in 3 or 6 months, all is forgotten and gets a new contract.

This regime always will pander to its base above all else, and right now they're looking for something/anything to blame this mess on.

[bpilgrim]

23. that's the FIRST thing that IMMEDIATELY PISSED ME OFF about this story

glad this important asspect of this isn't going unnoticed... this will lead right back to the bush gang via their corp cronnies, BET.

but we all know the press is good at MISSING THE POINT with their PROGRAMMING.

and so it goes...


peace

[Junkdrawer]

26. Kick

:kick:

[RedEagle]

27. Mother Jones did a Story Months ago on the Problems of Privatizing Miliary

Right on article.

The military has less and less control.

Privatization is planned.

Not only for profit but to get away with things the military would never allow.

The military takes on oath to serve their country, whether they are volunteer or drafted.

Mercenaries take no such oath, to my knowledge.

How convenient.

[annagull]

28. Sanchez signed the order

I watched the House hearing, and believe it or not Heather Wilson(R-cries over bare breasts) asked Rummy who signed the order for the MPs to report directly to MI, which is one of the illegalities, and she finally got them to admit it was General Sanchez.

[scrotim]

29. rummy wants us to focus on the peons at the bottom of the food chain.

so he can skate free, while waxing outraged about the so called scandal.

the whole damn administration has been a scandal since december 2000; that's the big picture here.

[Aries]

30. Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin, for one

via Josh Marshall:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_02.php#002926

"...In many of the articles on this emerging Iraqi prisoners story, it has been claimed that some of the key instigators or enablers of bad acts were military intelligence officers.

Now, who's the head of military intelligence? 'Head' is too vague. There's no such post per se. But what comes pretty close is the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence.

And who's that? Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin.

Remember him? He's the one who got in trouble last year for describing his battle with a Muslim Somali warlord by saying "I knew that my God was bigger than his God. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol", saying President Bush was chosen by God, and generally that the war on terror is an apocalyptic struggle between Christianity and Satan...."

[Junkdrawer]

31. They're hiding the proof where no one will see it --- in print....

Require READING for TortureGate....