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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:51 AM
Original message
The Red Cross knew!
Forgive me if this post is naive but, the BBC reported this morning that the Red Cross knew what was going on at the Iraqi prison, visited it many times and asked US officials to stop the abuse.

The Red Cross obviously did not go to the UN or to our great president or to Britian or to any other country or authority which might have been able to stop this insanity.

Why is this? This is the Red Cross after all.

And while I'm at it, various reporters have said that there were "whisperings" about what was going on at the prison for months. Why didn't they speak up.

There just don't seem to be any good guys left.

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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Red Cross/Crescent almost certaily did go to the authorities in Iraq
They just don't make the results of their inspection public, so as to avoid controversy that would restrict their access.

Whether this is a good strategy or a bad one is debateable.

I think there should be an agency more like the U.N. weapons inspectors, who do make public statements and get in because of the public consequences of not cooperating.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. If this is true......
how they kept the lid on this for months is a question that has been troubling me for a few days now.

It is almost as if the whole thing has been planned. Worse yet, were these soldiers set up from the beginning, meaning last summer. Is this the scandal that will be the "official story" of "why" for the next MIHOP. I have been foiling on this since I read transcripts of Sy Hersh's interview.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Please explain
what you mean by this being planned.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I just find it odd that this story has been the top story with every
major media venue for over a week now. Not that it shouldn't be, it is a scandal of epic proportion. There is more coming also, from what I can gather, not just pictures, but video. So this story is gonna be in the headlines for at least the next month, if not longer.

Every hack pundit is going to be interviewed on CNN, MSNBC, ABC et al. They are gonna start telling us we are ripe for a terrorist attack, here at home, because of these atrocities.

The theories have already been floated for a couple of months now that we will probably have another terrorist attack before the election. The reason being that the "terrorists" want to effect the outcome of our elections ala Madrid.

Obviously the Arab world is enraged already. How you thing they are gonna feel when the videos of boy-rape are released.

So when (if) there is an attack launched on the US, they have more than one way the American people can look to for it's cause.

Don't mind me I don tinfoil for every occasion.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think I heard...
that the ICRC doesn't make public statements of its findings. THey report to whomever and let them do the disclosing or not.

As long as they have documentation of what was said to whom when, the Bushies are in trouble.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. But what I don't understand is
if the ICRC didn't get anywhere, why did they remain silent. Do you think they quietly went to higher authorities? If they did, then this will be Bush's worst day!
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. That's exactly what I think
I think the Red Cross went to people in either the US DoD or the Iraqi COuncil (same thing right?) with its concerns and nothing was done about it.

Might this be the "smoking gun"?

But, still, I'm afraid Bush will come out of this smelling of roses instead of the manure. Pisses me off.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. Last year when the war began
I was trying to collect data on all casualties, military and civilian in Iraq and I would post the list here every few days.

In the beginning, the ICRC website was my main sources of data for Iraqi casualties. Everyday they would go out to the hospitals and count the dead and injured. This info was posted on their website on a daily basis.

Then on the day Shock and Awe started the ICRC site went off line. A few weeks later, when they finally came back on, they were a horse of a different color. From that point on they stopped all reporting of casualties in Iraq. I ranted and raved about it at the time, and posted this at least of couple of times last year.

Yes, the Red Cross knew, and they even cooperated in helping the US coverup the horror.

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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Who did the Red Cross contact first?
I owuld imagine that the Red Cross has some ears way up the channel.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. One being Elizabeth Dole.
"I owuld imagine that the Red Cross has some ears way up the channel."
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. It is all becoming clear now.
I've been a little slow on the uptake! The Red Cross did it's job, told all the right people...right up the chain of command and into the WH. Nothing was done. The abuse went on. The Red Cross took copious notes and waited. Pictures get leaked. George W isn't upset because he wasn't told about them. He's upset because they exist. They are incontrovertible evidence. The Red Cross notes will be incontrovertible evidence. Powell's meltdown today is his way of ducking because I'll bet someone in the Red Cross told him and he did what he's been doing all along...he went along to get along.

Maybe this is why John Kerry has been so modulated about this...it will all unravel on Bush without Kerry having to lift a finger.
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. We probably threatend to smear them or cut off aid and access.
Remember how O'Reilly did them in with his unproven allegations about how they mis-handled the money fromt he 9/11 contributions. They were almost wiped out when the neocons began a campaign against them. Floks, this current administration is nothing more then a group of thugs and gangsters in three-piece suits.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Raven, it was more than whispers
i heard about this shit about three months ago or close to it. but without the pictures, how could it be proven. congress is pissed as hell about it because no one briefed them. i heard it, believe it not not, from brit hume.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. Here comes the Red Cross bashing again.
Every time they blow the whistle on one of the US atrocities, the conservatives beat them over the head with a hammer. Even I remember reading articles of protests by the red cross about this prison, the Afghan prisons and Gitmo. They ARE saying it. They are being ignored.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Um, the Red Cross did not blow the whistle
a soldier with a photo and a concious did not the Red Cross, they did not comment on the issue until it was already out in the media.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. How do you know it was a soldier?
BTW who leaked the Pentagon report to CNN and MSNBC.
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