How much will Kerry have to win by to ACTUALLY "win" the 2004 "Election"?

[tom_paine]

Poll question: How much will Kerry have to win by to ACTUALLY "win" the 2004 "Election"?

Now, we all know and have seen the many Manual and Electronic Disenfranchisement strategies pioneered by Uncle Karl his his Merry Brigades of Dirty Tricksters.

From Vacation-Home Double and Triple Voting (gotta love that) to "repairing absentee ballots for Bush" to Charles Kane getting a week alone with the Florida Voter database to Jeb using Florida's Tax Monies to pay to solicit absentee votes from Florida Republicans far away (and don't forget to vote in your home state, wink wink) and SO MUCH MORE...we know them by their foul deeds unmatched in scope or scale by our side (although it WOULD be naive and foolish to say there is ZERO Democratic cheating going on)

Having said that, just how bad is the Voting System skewed towards the Imperials? This is excluding the Extreme Gerrymandering and Extereme Mis-Use of Recall and Other Good Laws and other fronts on which the Busheviks have muted the Intent of the Founding Fathers and the Voice of the American People.

Arguments on that aspect of Bushevik Coup belong in a thread devoted to those topics, thank you.

I'm talking Diebold and Georgia 2002. Florida 2000 and Jeb Crow and Felon Purges. The further Jeb Crow of stacking the error-prone machines in minority Dem precincts. Phony Contrary Bushevik Pravda Polls showing Up is Down, sort of "countering" a spate of good polls results (now this is a Kremlin-style Pattern now oft repeated that I am noticing...lets see if it holds true).

So, how much does Kerry REALLY have to win by to "win"?

I am very interested to not only see the Voice of the DU Community and where we stand but to hear all of our reasons for either hope (and I do think some will be hopeful) or despair.

Poll result (83 votes)
None. (There is NOTHING wrong with the Imperial Amerikan Voting System)	(1 votes, 1%)	Vote
1-2% (Systemic Inequities only. Poor districts getting error prone machines)	(2 votes, 2%)	Vote
3-4% (Minor Roveism. --in addition to above -- Under the radar felon purges & illegal txapayer-funded solicitations)	(7 votes, 8%)	Vote
5-8% (Partial Rove. --in addition to above -- Diebold & their Special Friends get backdoor key codes and do their thing.)	(13 votes, 16%)	Vote
8-11% (Full-Court Karl --in addition to above -- All that and MORE we've not yet discovered and MORE which their Specialists have found weaknesses in the System BBV doesn't even know about yet)	(39 votes, 47%)	Vote
Greater than 11% (Kerry WILL NOT be permitted to win)	(18 votes, 22%)	Vote
No, the system is rigged in favor of the Democrats. It is Bush who will need to gain extra votes to win.	(3 votes, 4%)	Vote

[BiggJawn]

1. 11% will not be enough.

11%? OK, so Fat Tony will have to work a little harder, but he will have AHH-Nuld helping along with Jebbie this time.

It will have to be a landslide to negate any of Rove's dirty tricks. Kerry will have to win by popular acclaimation

But then, there's still Martial Law and the suspension of the election....

[Misunderestimator]

2. 5 - 8%

And I chose that with a great deal of optimism. All around me I see people angry at what is happening. There are finally rumblings about electronic voting... and I have to keep the devil of pessimism at bay and hope that it will only be a minor percentage of votes stolen. After all, if they get really stupid, and try to claim a landslide victory, or even much more of a margin than last time... there will be an uproar of legal suits and recounts. Even if the presidency is re-stolen, those things would follow him like an albatross and echoes of Nixon will become even eerier.

If we can't de-select him, we must IMPEACH!!

[tom_paine]

3. Given the level of extreme pessimism (which I might add I share)

I have added another Poll Choice.

Though it is NOT going to DETER ME from working as HARD AS POSSIBLE TO INSURE A KERRY VICTORY just as if the system still worked normally and healthily.

Lets give him that 10% landslide.

[workforpower]

4. Oh such garbage!

Always I have to hear about if Bush wins because he will fix the election we will take to the streets. If you think he will steal the vote,take it to the polls. If they aren't honest,SHUT THEM DOWN!

Forget the signs and puppets and the other BS. Old people man polls. Honest questions will be welcome. Find your poll place and hang there all day. Do exit polls. If the cops appear you can have your fantasy (being arrested) for something that matters.

[tom_paine]

6. If you think my fantasy is getting arrested, you have another thing coming

You don't know me.

My fantasy is contuing to live the Good Life in a Strong and Free Democratic Republic with a Strong, Vibrant, and Healthy System of Checks and Balances.

My fantasy is to return to pre-2000, when I trusted and believed in the System and the possibility of Tyrannical Coup was so far from reality I would have laughed in my own face had 2004 Me had come back from teh future to chat with 1997 Me.

My fantasy is to one day be able to quit fighting you bastard Busheviks, with your Seig Heil fall in line mentality, so blind to even the most egregious wrongdoings from your side while trumping the most minor "crossing on a red light" violations of the people you demonize and belittle and try to bully and dehumanize with your words and perhaps, with your deeds, as well.

To go back to weekends spent drinking beer, shooting darts, hiking, biking , hunting or watching football instead of working for the Kerry Campaign because you people would do WHATEVER your Bushevik Masters tell you whenevr they tell you...believe any lie...without question nor remorse nor single solitary thought.

To not have to worry that the System is breaking down and becoming like the Soviet Union (Free Market Bushevik Style).

By the by, remember Commie MayDay? It looks as if your Bushevik masters have revived that one.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/2004043...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/2003043...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/2002050...

Chew on that, Bushevik Comrade. Wake up. Think. Awake. Join Free America.

[frank frankly]

12. is that Loyalty Day thing for real?

great post.

I am very relieved to see the BBV gaining momentum. i will have to volunteer to poll watch, as per your sig line.

right on!

[tom_paine]

13. I think it is

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/proclamations /

Note that this is the actual whitehouse.gov, not the pardody whitehouse.org

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A2849-2003May1...

This one down in the lower middle makes passing mention of "Loyalty Day, 2003" (Der Fuhrer* has been busy under the radar, creating his Free-Market Stalinist Fuhrer*holidayz).

I think it's real (80% chance), and flying underneath the Corporate TV Pravda Radar as you would expect something which can make the Busheviks look like the Totalitarian Scum they are.

[BiggJawn]

8. What Tom Paine said, and then some!

" If they aren't honest,SHUT THEM DOWN!"

Oh, yes, indeed....Perfect recipe for being arrested and perhaps taken to the Psych Wing of your local hospital instead of Jail....

You "everything gonna be alright" people make me wanna puke.

"Baaaaaaaa! Baaaaaaaaaa! Buuuuuuush won't win, so Stoooooooop with the shit about 'stealing the election'....Baaaaaaaaaa!"

just like we were assured last time, right? And to think I actually thought "Hey, Jebbie says he's not gonna be involved with the re-count, maybe it'll be fair after all..."

I've learned since then.

Being arrested isn't MY "fantasy". Perhaps seeing all of us who see through this bullshit arrested is YOUR fantasy.

[tom_paine]

11. "Perhaps seeing all of us who see through this bullshit arrested is YOUR..

"...fantasy."

Nicely said!

BigJawn, I believe you have pierced the masturbatory self-exposure of this Little Freeper.

Yes, that's what they DO want. I've got some news for them and a little surprise

WE'RE NOT GOING TO LAY DOWN FOR IT OR ANY OF YOUR BUSHEVIK SHIT!

Not for a second.

[Redleg]

10. It's not my polling place I am concerned about.

It's the polling places in predominantly poor and minority areas that concern me. Not enough voting booths and not enough poll workers makes for long waiting lines and more frustration and less voter turnout.

Who said anything about fantacizing about being arrested? Are you crazy? A person could end up in Guantanamo for going against Bushco.

[0rganism]

23. "If you think he will steal the vote,take it to the polls"? Whaaaaat?

We CAN'T take it too the polls for PRECISELY THIS REASON.

Duh.

> If they aren't honest,SHUT THEM DOWN

Gee, that's real easy to do, when the voting machines are programmed to spit out victory margins of 18,181 votes no matter what.

> Do exit polls

That's gonna be REALLY effective, oh yeah. Don't you know by now that nationwide exit polls aren't done anymore, because they proved the incredible vote fraud required to install bush in 2000? Weak. Very weak.

> you can have your fantasy (being arrested)

Wow. What utter BULLSHIT. Useless. Your post is compeltely useless.

Go read Palast's book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, before you come on this board telling us what's "garbage" and "fantasy".

[TahitiNut]

5. Other - it's not about the national vote

It's about the electoral votes. A relatively small percentage of votes in very few key states can be 'lost' or switched and the election thrown.


Remember, Senate Democrats currently represent over 55% of the people.

[opihimoimoi]

7. The Gen Vote should be about 10 percent, resulting in a Mountain Slide

"Crawford"..... We have a problem."

Bush is on automatic cruise control towards self destruction. A death spiral. A crash. Inevitable. Unbelievable.

He and his Core are in Denial but its all there. The Lies have been told, the Bad decisions added up, the actions leading to waste and despair all on HIS Watch haunts them daily, The Man is Toast.

Add the neglect of important aspects to keep the Nation/Earth Healthy.

Instead of the STATESMAN he strives to be: The COURT JESTER is HE.

Come, we go laugh

[Redleg]

9. One electoral vote should be sufficient.

Of course after a close finish, the Rethugs will say that Kerry really doesn't have a mandate. I say "fuck 'em if they don't like it."

[x-g.o.p.er]

14. 3-5%

Simply for the fact the full implementation of the electronic voting machines have not been completed. If Diebold had full implementation (like they will in the next four years) it won't matter what the "opposition" candidate draws, because it won't matter. With no paper trail, a select few will be able to arbitrarily put "pecentages of the vote" next to the candidate they see fit, regardless of who received what.

Soon, voter turnout will dramatically rise, and someone will get upwards of 60% of the vote, then a few years later, 63, then 65...and slowly we will be in a one party state, and sadly, no one will give a shit. Why? Because they will be pissed off the the American Idol vote will be fixed, and their attention will be blissfully diverted from what really matters.

And sadly, with but a whimper, our Republic, our beloved way of life, will be gone forever.

Agitate, agitate, agitate!!

[markomalley]

15. There is no way Kerry will win

When Bush takes both New York and California, you will know beyond your worst nightmares that there was no election and that the constitution was just rendered null and void.

[opihimoimoi]

16. Come, we find ways to get NY/Calif to go Kerry, along with many other

States whose citizens got large doses of Coffee and Visine.

[markomalley]

17. If the election is honest..

...of course those two states will go for Kerry, no matter what kind of trick shrub pulls. That's why I say if they go for the shrub, you know that the election was rigged and its all over.

[opihimoimoi]

20. Kerry has a plan to get those States into his column

By a Landslide.

[markomalley]

24. Duh...

...but if the election is rigged, no plan will work. And both states now have rethug governors (if memory serves)...one of which took control of the state by a quetionably legal coup.

[ThoughtCriminal]

18. He needs one more vote

On the Supreme Court or it will probably be 5-4 Bush again.

Every close state that Bush loses will be challenged.

[sonias]

19. We can not stand for back to back stolen elections

One coup d’état is more than enough for these bastards to get away with. I think with California's Secretary of State on Diebold's case, we're finally getting some serious media attention on that corrupt firm. Kudos to Bev Harris and her BBV crew for keeping the heat on everywhere.

If the Dems in Congress want to make sure we have a fair election, they better keep this issue front and center.

Bush will lose the popular vote once again. We will re-defeat him and his crony capitalist friends. That said, we do have to cover all our bases and make sure it doesn't go to the SCOTUS again, since we know it's a 5-4 vote for him there, no matter what.

We have to win big, really big. Landslide big so they don't have the resources to steal it.

Sonia

[Blasphemer]

21. 55% to 44% (1% Nader)

If he wins, it will be by numbers close to that. I'm more worried about an October Suprise than a fixed election. IF they haven't managed to pull something off, then they will try for the fix but their first shot is going to be something like Osama, Another War planted WMD's etc. If nothing spectacular happens before election day, the polls will miraculously shift in his favor and the fix is in.

[opihimoimoi]

22. A kick from the Pond