Is Dean the next JFK?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

Although brand new to the national political game, Howard Dean has motivated, inspired and shocked Americans like no other Presidential candidate in the last 30 years. Grassroots financial support from traditional Democrats was almost unheard of - until Howard Dean.

The current leadership of the Democratic Party, used to getting their political campaign budgets from Unions, Trial Lawyers and mammoth Corporations have not had any need whatsoever for the bulk of the people who actually make up the Democratic Party. Taken for granted, patronized, called "radicals" and "extemists" the average middle class Democrat feels alienated from a party that largely caters to corporate lobbyists and special interests to the exclusion of everyday, working folk.

Vividly contrasting this current reailty is Dean's model of small contributions, gleaned off of the Internet from supporters who give $20 at a time, thereby retaining eligibility and the ability to give again and again up to the $2000/person limit. Dean has not even BEGUN to tap into the financial support he already has. Inspired, passionate and incredibly motivated the number of Dean's supporters is growing exponentially. No other candidate has acheived this in the last 50 years. It is a credit to Howard Dean's ability to inspire and lead that it is happening now.

Up against the goliath of the Bush fundraising machine, Howard Dean's model of grassroots support and his inspiring leadership are our only hope. The Democratic Party must change. And change it will. From the bottom up.

[ryharrin]

1. A lot of people have been bristling at comparisons to the great leaders of

the past, but the fact is that Dean is generating enthusiasm at an unprecedented rate from a wide base of people. I agree that the Democratic party has become too entrenched in their old big money way of thinking. I believe that Howard Dean can at least start to change that for the better.

[chimpymustgo]

45. What the hell are you guys smoking? Howie is nowhere near

that league. Howard "tap dancing" Dean? You guys are getting scary.

[hedda_foil]

2. Yeah. I think he may just be exactly that.

I've been over the moon about two presidential candidates prior to Dean ... JFK and RFK. I volunteered for both of their campaigns, though I was only 15 in 1960. Dean reminds me far more of RFK than Jack in presentation, cadence and demeanor, but his willingness to speak truth to power and stand up strongly for what is best about America is tremendously reminiscent of both of them.

[mandyky]

35. I agree with the RFK likeness more than JFK

The way Howard Dean is energizing students, and the enthusiasm of the grassroots this definitely reminds me of RFK's campaign.

I think Dean is doing a lot of JFKish things though, like Dean Corps, etc. Some meetups come up with a lot of the community needs on their own, too.

[caledesi]

46. Yeah, I heard RFK give his last speech before CA

and there is a similarity there w/ Dean.

[MidwestTransplant]

3. Is he the next Messiah?

n/t

[Woodstock]

4. No, just the next president

:kick:

[Bombtrack]

5. None of the Kennedy's support him or will support him

this thread has no original ideas, it's just onother clogging thread to turn this place futher into a Dean echo chamber

JFK was perceived as a centrist by the people, he was charming and charismatic to all sorts of people, not just anti-war liberals, and he was a war hero with 2nd generation roots to the immigrant working class.

Dean is none of those things.

If Dean is the next anything he's the next Ralph Nader, a self-absorbed a-hole who's ego is more important to him than defeating Bush

[ryharrin]

9. That last sentence is BS.

If anyone, Lieberman is the next Nader. Or at least he is what Nader warned about. Lieberman seems to refuse to entertain the idea that the people might want a choice between a dem and a repub, not just Bush and "look at me I like Bush too!"

[Bombtrack]

19. Well, Leiberman is the only candidate who figuratively does that

And Nader's rhetoric is completely exagerated stupidity 90 percent of the time. He'll use republican talking points when ever it suits his purpouses, and then speak about how much we need an agenda, and the agenda he speaks about is the agenda of the dem party

Dean could also be called the next McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis all wrapped up into one. the most anti-war, pro tax increase, socially liberal democrat governor of the most liberal new england state.

[Pallas180]

27. Tra la la la la, troll la la la la, tra la la la, trolling along...

Dean could also be called the next McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis all wrapped up into one. the most anti-war, pro tax increase, socially liberal democrat governor of the most liberal new england state.

[Pallas180]

18. JFK was NOT perceived as a centrist anything. His appeal was

youth. he was the first candidate who was not an old fogey.

Nor is Dean the next Nader.

One should think before shooting off erroneous opinions.

[Bombtrack]

21. you don't know your history

he was then and is now considered a centrist democrat.

He was way closer to Nixon public policy-wise, than Gore was to Bush

[Pallas180]

26. I was there. There was no such thing as a "centrist". You're reading

revisionist history sonny.

[dolstein]

37. Two words: "missile gap"

Was he a centrist? Well, that term probably hadn't entered the political lexicon. But certainly most historians agree that the ideological gap between the two party's candidates in the 1960 election was about as narrow as it had ever been. Nixon embraced Nelson Rockefeller's liberal civil rights platform. Kennedy arguably ran to the right of Nixon on foreign policy.

Sorry, you're history is wrong. JFR wasn't the liberal favorite that year -- it was probably Adlai Stevenson, with Humphrey second.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Liberalism Meant Different Things Back Then

but Kennedy ran as a cold warrior. He even campaigned on the premise that America had become militarily weak under the Eisenhower administration allowing a missile gap to develop between us and the Soviet Union.

He also campaigned to get America moving again, implicity arguing that America had become stagnant under Ike


Bobby Kennedy was anti-Viet Nam war but like his brother he was far from a pacifist. Bobhy and JFK were sui generis-liberals with brass ones.

They were truly something and to compare today's politicians with JFK and RFK is mockery.

[Cha]

6. It's always nice to come home from work and see one of

your Positive Dean Thread's, Thor!

I wore my "Howard Dean for America" pin to work today for the first of many times. I just got it Wed night @ my first Meetup. A lot of "firsts", lately!

It felt so comfortable wearing it and I had a few inquiries from People in this small town in Upper State New York! :kick:

[ryharrin]

14. Upper state NY? Whereabouts?

I'm from Syracuse myself. I've been thinking for a while about an all- Central/Upstate NY Dean fundraiser.

[tsipple]

7. Damn Smart Campaign

I'm thoroughly impressed. Never quite seen anything like it. Some of my favorites:

1. Running TV ads in Texas just as Bush started his vacation in Crawford, Texas. Cheap, lots of free media replay, and sets him up beautifully for the Texas primary.

2. Iraq. Dean took a gamble (nothing to lose, everything to gain) and, well, we know how that went. He was (is) right.

3. Personal letters from Dean supporters across the country to Iowa and New Hampshire voters. Simple, direct, extremely effective.

4. Blogs, complete with trolls. Fun stuff, and energizing.

5. Humor. These folks are having serious fun! I find that adorable.

6. On-air first with the "man-to-camera" TV ads. Every political expert thought it was a waste of money. Which only proves that you should never listen to every political expert.

7. Being a governor. He's the only one, and that's a huge, unreported advantage. Governors do well running for president, especially in recent history. (That's where the John F. Kennedy comparisons break down. Kennedy was very unusual.)

8. Starting the whole campaign early (as did Clinton). Dean started a LONG time ago, when Bush was at peak popularity. You have to run for the presidency almost from birth these days, and that helps suck the political oxygen from other candidates. Dean has been to Iowa and New Hampshire more than anyone, I think.

9. Admitting mistakes. They haven't made many, but they admit them quickly and openly. (The Social Security/Kucinich episode is an example.)

10. Fundraising. The Cheney Challenge was terribly clever. So was the end-of-quarter sprint. They knew that the fat cat donors would follow and that they'd never compete there out of the gate, so they figured out a way around that problem. Dean will now have more money than anyone for the foreseeable future, and he's at least going to make it a contest with Bush should he win the nomination.

11. Slamming Bush. This is a Democratic primary, folks! (Memo to Lieberman: pay attention.) Why are you running for president if you agree with the current one?

12. Meetup.com. Who knew this would work so well? The Dean campaign did.

13. Minimal entourage. This campaign runs on instinct, not political consultants, and Dean gets to meet personally in comfortable settings with Iowa and New Hampshire voters. You can't do that if you outnumber the voters. These early primaries are intensely "retail," and Dean (perhaps because of his Vermont experience) gets it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Bob Graham Was Governor Twice Of The Fourth Largest State In The

Union so Dean's not the only governor in the race.

By the way, metropolitan Orlando is three times as populous as the entire state of Vermont.

[Pallas180]

22. Graham is a good guy, but I think he started too late....be a great VP

for Dean who will need the Washington connections.

And the only other one who didnt vote for the war and has
been slamming the dimwit.

Dean and Graham - carry the South too. Graham is beloved
in Florida by the way.

[chookie]

65. I *love* both Dean and Graham

The reason: both of them know Bush is nothing but a good poker player, and that he is holding an empty hand -- and they are calling him on it. They, and Kucinich and Clark, are the only ones who have seen through this creep from the start, and who have been making noise from the start.

I think the reason these two men ran for the presidency is because they are OUTRAGED by the crimes of the Bush Crime Family and what has happened to our great nation -- not because they think they "have It", or deserve the job because of their long careers of public service, or somehow fit the image that Someone Electable has. No -- they're brave enough and tough enough to go toe to toe with the most evil administration in American history.

This pains me to my heart to come to this conclusion, but for as much as I support President Gore, I have now given my support to Howard Dean, because he embodies my intelligence, my ideals, and my anger. Dear Al was just been too damned cautious and gentlemanly facing a coup; he scored a lot of abstract moral points, but he let them steal the game.

[ryharrin]

13. Geat points, but I have to correct you on one.

Graham is also a former governor. Another reason he would be a good choise for VP.

I also agree that his campaign seems more genuine because of the fact that he's from VT. I would imagine that politics there is much more person-to-person without all of the personality management and spin we're used to.

[tsipple]

20. Re: Graham (Governor)

Yes, absolutely correct about Graham (former Florida governor). I should have inserted the word "recent" in there, because I was trying to make the point that a currently serving (or just recently serving) governor does have political advantages over House and Senate members. To elaborate on that, you don't have to worry about missing crucial votes, which has been a handicap for both Gephardt and Kucinich, in particular.

That said, Graham is one of the few with the executive experience of a governor, and governor of Florida at that. (Good point about the population of Vermont, except that small state governors probably have an advantage in the intensely retail politics of early caucuses and primaries.) I think he's a phenomenal talent and also innovative with his NASCAR-oriented campaign.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. People Have The Right To Be Enthusiastic About Their Candidate

but to compare Howard Dean with John Kennedy is silly. John Kennedy is one of the few politicians I know who actually pulled strings to get i-n-t-o a war. He was the hero of PT-109 and he won a Pulizer Prize for Profiles In Courage* to boot. He was arguably one of the most charismatic democratic leaders in the twentieth century. He was Hollywood handsome and a cultural icon to boot. Yes, even in his own time he was a cultural icon.







*whether Profiles In Courage was ghost written is academic.

[JohnKleeb]

10. I gotta agree

Take no offense but JFK was something else, imo what makes an presidential icon is a program, so you have FDR with the new deal which makes him a legend, JFK had the Peace Corps among others, and LBJ is best known for the Great Society. Dont take that as a bash but JFK was something else, its real hard to find a true heir to JFK today.

[tsipple]

16. Re: Profiles in Courage

Ted Sorensen (the most likely ghostwriter) denies he did, I believe. Ted's a masterful writer, though.

[Pallas180]

30. Actually it is said Jackie wrote it, or most of it, and the book was her

idea, she did the research while he was flat on his back from surgery.
Sounds like her.

[arcos]

68. Dean is becoming a sort of cultural icon

just as McCain did.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

71. yeah look how that all turned out for McCain

:eyes:

Every season a candidate comes along who enthuses the "youth": Gary Hart did it in '84, Jesse in '88, and now Dean. It means nothing other than appealing to high hopes, utopian fantasies, and all that nice stuff. Now we do in fact have a candidate who's like JFK and wouldn't ya know?... his initals ARE JFK!!!

Get a grip people.

[MODemocrat]

11. Howard Dean truly inspires me

I can garner more strength from DEAN than from any other presidential candidate in my lifetime. I am contributing to his campaign by (bits and pieces), which is the first time ever for me to contribute to any candidate. In my opinion, he's forthright and he listens, not taking anyone or anything for granted.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

36. Ditto.

[kentuck]

15. The next JFK will be John F Kerry....(eom)

???

[Pallas180]

23. Kery is the same old entrenched establishment - DLC n/t

:evilfrown:

[JohnKleeb]

28. well no offense Dean is DLC

or at least supports them on some things, Sharpton was critical of them and all, and Dean said something like "I disagree with Al on the DLC." just pointing out a fact.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

51. You are wrong on this one

The DLC is actively opposing Dean, trying to destroy his campaign.

[JohnKleeb]

52. Well he did say that he supported their original goals

I am not flaming him just pointing out what I've heard.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

55. But Dean now thinks they are out of control

Politicans are allowed to change their minds. Especially over the course of a decade.

Gore used to think abortion should be illegal.

Gephardt used to think abortion should be illegal.

Are you going to call them hypocrits because their political opinions have changed over the years?

[JohnKleeb]

58. you're right about that

No I dont have a problem with evolving, I was just merely pointing out that he has many DLC like views.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

59. Like universal health coverage?

[JohnKleeb]

60. thats a DLC point?

What are you saying?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

64. DLC is violently opposed to this idea

And Dean supports it.

[JohnKleeb]

67. thats good for him then

Kerry is DLC too right? and if my memory is correct he opposes the death penalty.

[whirlygigspin]

62. John Forbes Kerry

is JFK!

oh my G*d!

[Starpass]

17. Simmer down-----as with all these candidates, time will tell

Dean might not make it to the big dance..and then, again, he might. Dean might make all the repukes repent and vote Dem in '04 and then he might make McGovern look like the great "White Hope". Howard is basking in the glory of an adoring "choir"---the choir he is preaching to. But choirs have a way of having their asses glued to the pew too long and not realizing what is going on with the passive, non-politically involved public who feeds on tailored propaganda, Madison Ave, jingles. We are not sure that Howard can sing bare naked infront of the big audience.

[Eloriel]

42. What you're missing, Starpass

Is that Dean is reaching and mobilizing the "passive, non-politically involved public."

He'll do far better at reaching the ones "who feed on tailored propaganda" when the primary season heats up more and there's more TV coverage.

No one else can reach these people.

Eloriel

[ThorsteinVeblen]

57. The Doctor is in!

[revcarol]

24. No.

x

[JohnKleeb]

29. can you imagine how much ridicule we could get if we said the same about

our guy. I think DK is more like RFK than JFK really. JFK was a unique breed really.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. So was RFK

A little story.

The night MLK was assasinated RFK had a campaign stop in Gary Indiana before a predominately African American audience. His aides suggested he cancel. The atmosphere was just too tense. Bobby refused.

He told the crowd that his brother too was killed by a white man and quoted Aeschylus. I forgot the quote. It was awesome.

I can't imagine another politician doing that.

Comparing today's crop of politicians with RFK and JFK is like comparing Jerry Falwell and Benny Hinn with Jesus Christ.

I feel dyspeptic.....

[JohnKleeb]

34. That was beautiful

It was so inspirational and heres the link if anyone wants it,
this man gives me hope RFK and I wasnt even alive to witness it.
http://www.rfkmemorial.org/RFK/rfk_mlk.htm
"My favorite poet was Aeschylus. He wrote: "In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God."

What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence or lawlessness; but love and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or they be black."
BTW RFK was a great orator too bad he died, I am sure he would be doing fine, and fighting the evil that is Bush and Cheney.

[DemBones DemBones]

31. "I knew Jack Kennedy and Howard Dean is no Jack Kennedy" eom

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. no friggen way...i don't even know of one kennedy that supports him

robert kennedy jr does not...for sure

[dolstein]

38. Perhaps he's the next F. Murray Abraham

Sorry, but I kind your question ludicrous. Hell, even JFK, when he ran, wasn't the next JFK.

[VermontDem2004]

39. Howard Dean is the next Howard Dean

He will have is own shining spot in history if elected President.

[mlawson]

40. I fear he will be the next Gary Hart (w/o the scandal).

Shunted aside next Spring, in favor or Kerry or Lieberman, by the Dem power brokers. I know I am a broken record with this, but I can't forget how disappointed many of us were, when Hart was ditched in favor of Mondale. And this was before Donna Rice. The general impression was, that 1984 was 'Mondale's turn, regardless who which would have been a stronger opponent for Ronnie. Hart was cheerfully dismissed, and was promised that 'his time will come'.

Hart *probably* could not have beaten Ronnie in 1984, but we will never know.

[Jonte_1979]

41. I'm a big fan of Dr. Dean but

...I think you're getting a bit carried away here. At this point in time, Howard Dean is the next Howard Dean.

[molly]

43. Well, which is it - Clinton or JFK - can't be both - make up

your mind! Seriously, I don't think he has the charisma. He is too wooden and evasive. His wife is not into it. Does she think she can run around the lake and wear a ponytail and be first lady? Image counts.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

44. I am just asking questions

I am not giving answers.

[newsguyatl]

47. haha

you call DEAN too wooden??? i take it you think KERRY of all people has charisma?!?!?!


hahaha... good one molly! for real, that just made my night...

poor kerry... slippin' slippin' slippin' in the polls... poor charasmatic thing...

guess dean's "woodenness" is really appealing to the almost 300,000 signed up for his campaign...

maybe kerry should steal THAT trait from dean, too then, like he has everything else...

[molly]

49. I met Kerry a handful of years ago and he was ANYTHING

but wooden - charisma, intelligence, humor, and most of all ENERGY. He just went thru cancer treatment - he'll be back stronger and stronger and he has a wife that is totally IT!!!

[w4rma]

48. Governor Howard Dean is closest to President Harry Truman, IMHO

"The buck stops here!"

"I don't think the son of a bitch {Vice-President Nixon} knows the difference between telling the truth and lying."

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it is hell!"

[ThorsteinVeblen]

50. Never thought of that

Straight talk and indignation. A little well placed anger every once in a while.

[w4rma]

63. Dean:"Look to what Harry Truman put in the 1948 Democratic Party platform"

...
Look to what Harry Truman put in the 1948 Democratic Party platform: Health insurance for everybody. We need to stand up for ourselves again and take on the President directly.
...
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000954.html

[TheBigGuy]

56. Ok..maybe...

...i dont see the JFK comparison....Truman...maybe....

[TheBigGuy]

53. ROFL!

geez....can this be more absurd or what?

[indigo32]

54. The Doc

doesn't need to be anyone but himself. He Rocks.

[Southsideirish]

61. Personality-wise they differ but they generate the same electricity.

I remember attending JFK rallies with my parents back in the late '50's and the excitement in the air was palpable. Now its the same at Dean rallies - and I've been to all of them - Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale, etc.
The best was a torch light parade down Michigan Ave. for Dukakis. It was a Friday night and the unions really turned out a fantastic crowd - in the rain it went on for ever - hours and hours of marchers - I only wish we had a candidate who had fire in the belly back then, as Howard Dean does now.

[DisgustedTX]

66. No. Dennis Kucinich has the message.

Pride - not blind pride - in your country.

The power of the common man.

The better good of mankind.

World peace through diplomacy and healthy discourse.

Kucinich reminds me of RFK.

[UTUSN]

69. No. So DEAN's Wife Is a Long Suffering Wife-Sufferer?? n/t

[UTUSN]

70. Is Thorstein VEBLIN a Friend? Perhaps, Maybe, Maybe-not n/t