Does "freepermania" make it difficult for new people to post on DU ?

[kentuck]

Are new people really afraid to post on DU for fear of being called a "freeper"? How difficult can it be to say George W Bush sucks? How difficult can it be to say Iraq was an illegal war brought to us by the lies of of the Bush Administration? How difficult would it be to make a comment agreeing with the sentiments of at least one other DUer? How difficult is it to speak out against the big oil companies and their moral and physical pollution? Surely there are some subjects that would not draw suspicion as a possible "freeper"?

Of course, if you wish to post something like, "Rumsfeld is not really a bad guy" or "Bush is right about one thing" or something similarly ambiguous in your first attempt at posting, naturally some suspicions will be raised. Just something for the "newbies" and "lurkers" that might want to post something, but feel intimidated, to think about. Go for it! :)

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. I was called all kinds of crazy things when I started posting...

So I hear ya...

[kentuck]

2. It takes everyone a while to find their legs.....

You just have to jump in the water...If you show respect to others, it usually works out... ( I know I have not always been so respectful to some but most of the time I am .... :)...)

[Hepburn]

36. Newbie who has lurked.

Have never posted on your message board. Read you guys a lot. So, I might as well put my first post here and say, "hi." Nice to see everyone and hope to spend some time here. :hi:

[kaitykaity]

38. Well, then. Welcome to DU, Hepburn.

:hi: Happy Posting!!! :toast:

[Hepburn]

41. Hey, hi, back to everyone!

Thanks for the welcome. I have been reading and enjoying. Good links for articles. Did not see anything on the news until I checked in here about Poland withdrawing. You guys seem to come up with the latest!

[DjTj]

39. Welcome to DU!

I'll wave right back at ya! :hi:

[Hepburn]

42. Hey, and one back to ya!

Nice place over here. I post on another political board and, geeeeez, putting up with the Bush apologists is a real gagger! Nice to find a crowd where I fit in! Will try and post more here - but need to slap around the Bushies on the other board! LOL, need to get them ready for defeat in November!! :headbang:

[FlaGranny]

69. Welcome, and I like your user name.

:-)

[No2W2004]

3. Way I look at it,

is if someone wants to engage me on my views, fine! I got nothing to hide, and if I get called names, so what, I can deal with it.

Besides, it seems my views have finally found a home here.

[jjs]

4. ...

I've had a screenname on this site for over two years and check it daily, but I feel reluctant in posting due to my low count. In all honesty though, my main use of this site is to get links to info to use against rabid Bush supporters on other message boards and in daily life.

[kentuck]

10. You're probably one of our better educated DUers......

with only 13 posts....You should post more often and join in the fun...:)

[Kukesa]

55. From Another Newbie

I'm in the same camp as JJS -- I use the info I read here to rebuke the Repugs I'm surrounded by. I just joined in March after having lurked since September; it was that "press conference" of Shrub's that made me decide to get involved.

I have a couple of questions:

What does BBV mean? How about MIHOP and LIHOP?

Do DUers post on Freeper boards?

Why do DUers not support John Kerry whole-heartedly? He's our candiate -- we should embrace him -- worts, scars, and all. OK, so maybe he doesn't fit everyone's idea of a PERFECT candiate, but Martin Sheen/Jeb Bartlett isn't going to run, folks.

Kukesa

[MAlibdem]

57. Happy to oblige

BBV=Black Box Voting, that is, voting where there is no paper return, votes cannot be confirmed independently, increasing the risk of vote tampering and election fraud.

MIHOP=Made it happen on purpose, in reference to 9/11. Some believe the Bush administration ordered the attacks to boost popularity.

LIHOP=let it happen on purpose. the belief that the bush admin had previously knowledge of the attacks and allowed them to happen, same motivations as MIHOP, just done by OBL.

DUers don't fully support Kerry for a couple reasons (tho I DO!)

1. People are still mad their candidate isn't the nominee (tho i think this reason is almost gone)

2. Some people on DU woudn't really be considered big D "Democrats" as much as other types of leftists.

3. Lurkers.

4. I dunno.

[Kukesa]

61. Thanks, MAlibdem!

I appreciate your answering my questions; that was very nice of you.

Kukesa

[NashVegas]

66. Don't Worry About It

It's not the number of posts, it's what you do with them :)

And a belated welcome!

[nosmokes]

i lurk way more than i post

and i haven't been around that long, but there is a definite air of paranoia on some days lately. i come from further left than most of y'all though so i'm not intimidated, but i can see where someone more moderate might be. not that i believe there's cause for it, ya understand.

[slksln]

63. me too

I lurk way more than I post, but more because I don't feel that I have anything more to say than has already been said, really. I would only be repeating what's already there. *shrug*

I'm quiet IRL too, so it's just in character for me, I guess.

[Skittles]

5. LOL

when they start off vigorously defending Wal-Mart THEY ARE ASKING FOR IT.

[Catshrink]

12. I remember that one!

What a moran.... didn't s/he also go off on Condi-criticisms? Saying it was because she was black? Farewell, little freeper.

[Skittles]

18. he thought the wages were just A-OK

and gave cheap tomato juice as an example. F***ing mind-boggling.

[DoktorGreg]

6. After lurking for several years

I cant keep my mouth shut anymore, even if it just just to say me too.

At which point, If I could play a sound it would be a rendition of the Dean scream.

In the last couple of days I havent had any problem with moderation. But then I am left of most of the posters on DU.

[blm]

7. Hey, I've been called a freeper

even though it is well known I defend both Kerry and Kucinich and other worthy Dems consistently and doggedly.

I've been called a freeper even though I was the one who alerted about BBV in early fall of 2002.

I've been called a freeper even though I posted for well over a year about the Bush-Moon alliance and their links to rightwing theocrats like Tim LaHaye.

So, if I and others like me can be called a freeper without hitting alert on the poster, then so can a few newbies.

Just my personal opinion..

[TiredTexan]

8. I've been here a really long time . . .

but I read most of the time and rarely post. I contribute and really love DU. But I still get insulted quickly because of my low post count.

[Hobarticus]

17. TiredTexan, you should have a thicker skin...

...after having Bush as guv!

[lapislzi]

70. I get insulted too...and look at my numbers

sometimes people of a different liberal stripe take it upon themselves to question your credentials. I just tell 'em to go back and look at my posting history. I am nothing if not consistent.

Good luck to ya, TiredTexan!

[Crunchy Frog]

9. One of the things not to do

is to jump in and start attacking Kerry right away, saying that you're going to vote for Nader or write in Dean.

While there are some legitimate criticisms one can make about Kerry, it is not very good form to jump right into a Democratic message board and start attacking the Democratic nominee.

This is one of the behaviors that tends to arouse suspicion that you are really a freeper.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. I was never accused of being a freeper during my first posts.

I was bashing that sorry bastard in the white house back then and I still am.

LOL!

[kentuck]

13. It was easy for you!

You fit right in... :)

[strategery blunder]

14. I was intimidated with a freeper issue

The first couple of weeks I was on DU, there were flame wars on abortion galore--this is probably the only issue I really agree with freeps on (and I'm not single-issue, either). As there was little else going on at the time (I had yet to discover the Lounge), guess where my first few posts were?

(Note: excluding abortion/choice, whatever you want to call it, I'm probably left of Dennis Kucinich, so please don't accuse me of freeper trolling here.)

Talk about nervewracking; but I avoided the talking points and actually DEBATED. Talk about a trial by fire--I made it, though!:D

[Vogon_Glory]

15. Some of My Earlier Posts Got Deleted

Some of my earlier posts got deleted. I complemented Republicans of the sort that had been out of power for over a generation. The sort that actually practiced something like the integrity they espoused, the sorts that actually did stand for honest government and the prosecution of corrupt officials, the sorts who not only claimed to be patriotic, but actually practiced their patriotism.

Even when I compared and contrasted those Republicans of yore with the self-aggrandizing, power-hungry, authoritarian-minded wanna-be Falangists in control of the Republican Party of today my posts got deleted by the moderators. Even when I was trying to make the point of the lesson I learned--that that was then, this is now, and that neither I nor anyone else should expect those old-style Republicans to ever again reassert themselves in the Republican Party, my posts still got deleted.

Nevertheless, I consider myself a Democrat. The GOP has shifted so far over to the right that moderates who once liked some Republicans can either prostitute themselves for the benefit of the reactionaries in control of the Republican Party, or they can follow their consciences and their own beliefs and join other moderates and even liberals in the ranks of the Democrats.

[Redneck Socialist]

16. Everybody's a freeper but me!

I think "freepermania" has made people a little suspicious and paranoid.

This too shall pass.

I lurked for a while before joining in. The DU gravity well is pretty strong. It is hard to resist being sucked in. My words of encouragement to the newbies: Don't fight it. All resistance is futile. You're going to have thousands of posts before you know it anyway so you might as well jump in with both feet now. The water's fine even if it seems a little murky at times.

Welcome to DU whoever you are. :hi:

[SeekerofTruth]

71. LOL - And I didn't even know it!

You learn something new about yourself everyday.

[kentuck]

19. Study this post and tell me why this person did not get tombstoned ??

And you will see that DU is usually very fair and open-minded and willing to see where a person is coming from before the trigger is pulled... :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1446319&mesg_id=1446453&page=

[RoyGBiv]

20. Yes, but this is not a unique thing

I've been participating in various online forums for 20 years, from the days of BBS's to Usenet to e-mail forums and now to web based groups. A consistent rule of all these forums is that established members are suspicious of newbies, sometimes for good reasons, other times not. Both cases exist here.

Before I first posted, I lurked for a few days to get the lay of the land, and I decided I could fit in here but that I'd have to avoid a few issues. Or, at least I'd have to hold back awhile and establish myself a bit first. There are some topics that transcend the standard distinctions, but it seemed from what I'd seen while lurking that a solid block of established members had their own ideas about the "right" way to see these issues and would only tolerate dissent from that standard line if the person offering it was also an established member.

I'm also not generally given only to offering sound bites like "Bush sucks." Well, yeah, he does, but that much is a given, and it gets us nowhere. It only serves as a release of tension when the blithering idiocy of the current administration or the press or whatever get to be too much to tolerate. I like engaging in thoughtful discussions, and I even like argument because I think I learn more from disagreement than from a following a standard line of accepted reasoning. If nothing else, disagreement forces people to more clearly define and express their positions if they are to maintain them without being seen by observers as intellectually bankrupt.

A few days ago I decided to jump into a discussion for which I feared I'd be taking the "wrong" line, and I was happily surprised to see that there was enough variance of opinion than no single line of thought was immediately discounted. That was encouraging, and I no longer feel the reluctance I once did.

Thanks for asking.

[kentuck]

21. Thanks for this comment, RoyGBiv

"...I was happily surprised to see that there was enough variance of opinion than no single line of thought was immediately discounted.."
===========================================================
What right wing website can honestly say that?

[RoyGBiv]

26. Right Wing

I have trouble even lurking at RW sites. I'm too highly strung on some of the things they yak at each other about for it not to make me crazy. But, from what I have seen, I haven't noticed ANY variance of opinion.

The jack booted thugs that hang out in freeperville inspire scary visions of brown shirts.

[MichaelHarris]

22. I've posted alot but

get very few responses. I've also written like 8 editorial/articles that no one reads. I don't know the reasons but I'll keep posting. If only one person reads one of my articles, and likes it then I did a good job.

[ContinentalOp]

23. I haven't seen any of your other posts but...

I like this one just fine :) I know how you feel though.

Despite my low post count and frequent lack of responses I've never been called a freeper. I just don't see how that would be possible. Maybe people who are afraid of being called freepers shouldn't post right wing talking points ;)

[MichaelHarris]

29. I've never been called a freeper

but I have wondered why very few respond to the articles or my other posts. Anyway if your interested I also keep them here:

The first 2 are kinda crumby but I'm kinda proud of the last few.

http://www.ypeace.org/articles.html

[kentuck]

24. You will learn the trick of headline writing with a little more practice..

:) But many old timers have posts that sink like rocks with "0" replies....Just gotta keep fishing...

[Morning Dew]

27. I hardly ever post ...

but this is one of my online "homes". Lots of like-minded folks here.


I often read at FreeRepublic, though - see, I have low blood pressure and can't afford medication. ;)

[nonconformist]

25. I've never been accused of being a freeper

But I don't consider myself a newbie either. I'm not much of a post whore, but then again I've never been one at any message board (and I've been involved with many over the years). I lurk a ton and post when I have something to say or add that's meaningful, that's all. I've been here well over a year and have donated as well, so I think it would be a curious strategy to try to disrupt or accuse me of such. ;)

But to touch on something I was actually discussing with my husband the other day - DU is different from any other board that I've ever been a part of because while at most places, newbies are looked upon with a certain amount of skepticism, but here they're welcomed with open arms because it shows us that there are many of us out there with the same general viewpoints. <-- holy run on sentence batman!

[x-g.o.p.er]

28. Yes...

I haven't been a democrat for long, and I still hold some conservative opinions on some things, but some people on this board seem to think that it's impossible for a person to change. Whatever.

It also seems that some DU'ers think the DLC is the breeding ground for the next anti-christ. Just because a person doesn't toe the liberal point of view on every issue doesn't mean they have little to nothing to contribute to the party.

It seems that when things get done in this country, Democrats and Republicans find common ground and work from there to get the best program for America, not their party. I just think the acrimony between the parties is so contentious that those days are gone forever, and extremism in one form or another will overtake our Republic, if it hasn't already. Distrust and stereotyping rules the political world these days, and it has permeated down to the grass roots level.

It would be funny were it not so tragic.

[Redneck Socialist]

54. You mean the DLC isn't breeding the next anit-christ?!

Damn it all to hell! Now I'm a gonna have ta change religions! :crazy:

[x-g.o.p.er]

67. LOL...

Maybe a minor baelzebub or two, but I think the Southern Baptists have cornered the market on the anti-christ business

[Arger68]

30. I've lurked for a long time

About 2 yers or so, and just recently signed up and started posting. It's never happened to me yet, but there are a few out there who seem ready to pounce on anybody with an even remotely conservative viewpoint on some subjects. I haven't posted anything too controversial, but most of my views are pretty close to the average DU'er anyway.

[KurtNilsen]

31. You get attacked just as much for defending Kerry as you

do critizing him.

[charlie]

37. Uh, no

Being a partisan for US involvement in the Iraq clusterfuck probably has more to do with you getting hit than for "defending Kerry."

[KurtNilsen]

45. How have I not defended the policy positions of John Kerry, and

also Hillary Clinton (As I found out on her excellent appearence on Larry King last nigh)?

I think Spain did a huge mistake by withdrawing their troops. If I could, I would have called Zappatero and told him myself. Thank goodness that John Kerry did it instead.

[Gman]

32. Freepermania should not keep anyone from posting here

except, of course, freepers.

No one gets tombstoned for a post or two unless they are obnoxiously and outrageously disrurptive. If the mods get alerted on someone, they will usually "watch" that person for a bit and review their posts to look for a trend. If there is a trend of that indicates the person is most likely a freeper disrupter, they're tombstoned.

A good case study is about "AskAlice" who got tombstoned last week. Go search on "AskAlice" (without quotes) and select Author. Check out AskAlice's posts on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=490822#491329

Notice that AskAlice is argumentative from the freeper perspective. Post enough stuff like this and you will get tombstoned. If you make a post or two that's questionable don't worry about it. People will press you to defend your position. In any event, your post history will eventually reveal if you are a freeper or not.

[MI Cherie]

33. I lurked for a long time before I signed up.

I still lurk more than post. The very few threads I've started have had reasonable responses. I try to reply to my replies.

I always feel frustrated when I see a deleted message — wonder what I missed! I must have hit a nerve once or twice and was starting to have fun ... but before I knew it, they were "tombstoned"! I have never been tempted to hit "alert" or "ignore" on anyone, yet.

I believe one must know what the "other side" is thinking. Being aware of what they are saying helps one recognize it when others repeat (almost word for word) the same talking points.

I also take a long time to read everything and even longer to put my thoughts into words and revise & edit. Then I end up killing the thread and feel guilty.

:shrug:

[MrPrax]

34. Nawh...

It's more that Newbies are being confused with folks that get 'banned' and ergo many 'newbies' are longtime folks that might be a little sore...and really don't care about the 'center'

[Selwynn]

35. Shutup freeper - your 1000+ posts are no disguise! LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEES!!

:)

Just kiddin..

[kentuck]

49. I've always had my doubts about you, Selwyn.....

:)

[Doomsayer13]

40. it's almost a rite of passage

every DUer has been accused of being a freeper at least once. I know I have.

[Hepburn]

43. OK....I am a newbie...

...can we get the Freeper thing over real fast? Please be gentle, k? I am tough, but geeeeeez, I have the Nazi groper for a gov. Haven't I been thru enough??? Ok....let me have it. I'm ready. :scared:

[Piperay]

48. We share the same 'governor'...

welcome to a fellow Californian! :hi:

[liberati]

44. I've been lurking for a long time...

but I've never posted. Kinda scared! I don't think anything I'd post would ever cause anyone to call me a freeper, but I've seen newbies trashed pretty badly for other stuff! Thanks for this thread where I can come out. I'll try to get up the courage to post more.

[Piperay]

47. Hi, welcome!

Glad you took the plunge, hope you join in more often! :-)

[Piperay]

46. Newbies, WELCOME! Please don't be scared

even with a high post count sometimes I get slammed. I know it is harder when you are just starting out but even when you have been here a long time criticism can be hard to take. I think that the benefits outweigh a little criticism. Please just jump right in, the more the merrier! :hi:

[Kukesa]

56. Thanks, Piperay

Please see my post #55.

Kukesa

[Vladimir]

50. I was never accused of

being a freeper, but then I hardly could have been... heh. But I did lurk for about a year before starting to post, which I think helped me to learn how things worked around here and avoid trouble when I did begin actively contributing.

V

[Vickers]

51. When I first started posting, some of the posters after mine seemed

to be raising their eyebrows a little bit.

It didn't bother me. Then I saw some posts where they would say stuff like "They'll even contribute to get a star next to their name so they look more legit!" and I had contributed (to do the advanced search).

Oh well, fuck 'em. I'm still here. Learned a lot. Made my first political contributions. Went to my first meeting of like-minded Democrats. Went to a MoveOn bake sale. Etc.

I imagine if you talk to the Mods, they will tell you that I have alerted several folks who came on here to start trouble, and in every case they were tombstoned.

I wonder if I've been alerted?

:scared:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

52. I was lucky enough to have someone vouch for me - that helps

Frankly, I think we should be sceptical. Trust is something built not granted blindly.

[TXlib]

53. My $0.02

If somebody posts obvious republican talking points, or points to extreme RW blogs as a news source, or spouts extreme Bush apologia, then I tend to assume they are trolling. In that case hit "alert", and move on. Don't reward them with a response. If you want to stymie them, ignore them, and "Ignore" them.

Now, the democratic party is a big tent, and there are conservative democrats who hate Bush as much as I do, but who otherwise disagree with me on almost every social issue I care about. So just because somebody exhibits a conservative attitude does not mean they are a troller, unless DU is implicitly supposed to be a home for liberal democrats only.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

58. More of a reader

than a poster. Not scared, but just hate typing and watching out for Boss walking in.

[Nadienne]

59. Yeah,

The boss causes problems for me too... :)

[fishnfla]

60. Hell, I'm so paranoid that I think I'm a freeper now!

I'm only half joking, especially after I read the "DU mole advice" that was posted from another place recently, alot of those suggestions are things that I have or had done, and then there was the implication that all one had to do was get the 1K posts and the gold star and you could say whatever you want with impunity....and I'm like, whoa! maybe people think I'm a latent freeper, I'd better watch what I say, 'cuz sometimes I'm not always in lock-step with the prevailing group think.

So you dont have to be a newbie to hesistate before you post, I guess.

[Puglover]

65. LOL...this thread is great cause it hits close to home.

Day before yesterday I posted a thread..."Bad Blood at Air America?
I had heard Randi make some comments that I did not quite understand and wanted folks take on what she had said. In retrospect I think the title could have been better thought out..."Bad Blood" is a bit melodramatic and I could have explained my point better...that being said I got slam dunked by a few folks for posting a "speculative" thread and one person wondered what my "motives" were for posting it. I was honestly blown away and hurt and pissed off....lol..all of the above. I realize like in the airline biz ( I work there) you gotta have a thick skin and roll with the punches. And take care to be CLEAR with what you are trying to ask or get across to folks.

[Coventina]

62. I was accused of being racist

but not a freeper.

I was accused of being racist for saying that biologically there is no such thing as race (in humans)!
:crazy:

[JVS]

64. Yeah, people are Freeparanoid

[Zorra]

68. I've been a liberal democrat all my life

and I believe I post like one. To my knowledge, no one has ever called me a freeper.

Kerry was not my first choice but the majority has spoken, and I believe that he is a solid candidate, and that it is very important for Democrats to unite behind our candidate in order to get rid of Bush.

The last thing freepers want to see is unity among Democrats. I believe that many of the direct or indirect subtle attacks on Kerry on this board come from freepers attempting to disrupt this unity, and plant seeds of doubt and dissension. They want us to be like "herded cats".

I do not think it is paranoid to analyze posts in order to determine the intent of those posts. Freepers post here all the time. Some are obvious, and some are not so obvious. It is only common sense to understand that they do. And it is only common sense to protect ourselves from disrupters that come here with the intent of attempting to keep us from being united or dimming our morale.

The fact is, Kerry is our candidate, and he is not perfect. But the only way we are going to get rid of Bu$h is to unify and vote for Kerry en masse. Tearing Kerry down at this point is only counterproductive to our goals. That's the bottom line.

IMO, newbies should take this into consideration. We really do have to be careful of freepers coming here attempting to plant seeds of doubt about our candidate, and disrupt our unity. We need every single vote we can get in November.