Did Kucinich come across like a "raving lunatic" ?

[kentuck]

:) Personally, I think Dennis is the most progressive candidate in the race, but I have seen him referred to as a "raving lunatic" elsewhere. I confess that he does make everyone else look like a "moderate" - which may be good for Howard Dean. Kucinich looks like a stereotypical "leftist".

But does he come across as very passionate or angry and strident? Would he not be more effective with a low-key approach to his very excellent message? No doubt, he is doing a great service by pulling all the other candidates back from the crevice of their right-wing march. It seems to me that all the candidates, except maybe Lieberman, have moved left in this campaign.

[onecitizen]

1. I liked Dennis too but.......

he came across very angry yesterday. I like anger but only at bush!! I have to re-think Dennis now. He was just too much for me.

[tjdee]

2. I was surprised to see him go for Dean like that.

So far I've been expecting a Kerry/Dean knockdown brawl, but last night Kucinich charged in from left field...

I think he's righteously upset that some people are getting 'liberal' support when he's the most liberal guy up there (maybe Sharpton?). That's what I read it as. I read it as he was upset with people giving pat answers--He was trying to get all of them to cut the crap.

That said, I do think he could have turned it down a notch or two. He was hot from "Hello". But, I don't think he was as out of control as others do.

[glasschains]

3. Yes. n/t

[eileen from OH]

4. Ayup. . .

I sure thought he did. But, then, I'm from NE Ohio and, quite frankly, we've seen quite enough of ol' DK, thank you very much. I had to laugh when he implied he could deliver OH. I don't think he could carry all of Cleveland (heavily Dem), much less the really conservative southern areas. Outside of his own district, well, he's not taken seriously at all.

What he did reminded me exactly of Rick Lazio did to Hilary during their debate, which backfired. Granted, I am not a fan, but I thought he looked like Dennis Demento.

Just my .02

eileen from OH

[RichM]

19. Please enlighten us as to what this phrase means -

"...quite frankly, we've seen quite enough of ol' DK, thank you very much."

Name one or two specific positions he's taken, that you feel have not served the interests of his constituency well. This should be easy for you to do, seeing as how you're from the same part of Ohio as he is, & are therefore undoubtedly very familiar with his record.

[eileen from OH]

29. Ah, geez. .

it wasn't the specific positions, it's the whole package. I'm not speaking as a constituent (never said I was) - I'm from the area, not his district. He probably serves his constituents well, if not they'd vote him out. But his district ain't Cleveland, it ain't NEOhio, and it sure as hell ain't all of OH, which has some VERY conservative areas (particularly around Cincy). I can virtually guarantee that there is no way in hell he'd ever carry OH.

A lot of us who remember when he was mayor, and there was a lot of yelling back then, too. Cleveland was the national-butt-of-jokes for decades, and a lot of folks attribute it to him. He lost after one term, remember. And despite his bragging how he's beat Republicans, he leaves out that after only 2 years as mayor, a Republican beat HIM. Heavily Democratic Cleveland replaced him with a George Voinivich who kept the job through most of the 80's.

eileen from OH

[Terwilliger]

5. No...but it was close

he has GOT to temper his responses...he's a bit over-the-top

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. The corporate media prefers Dean to Kucinich

for obvious reasons, none having to do with personality nor appearance.

[stickdog]

45. At least 90% of America prefers Dean to Kucinich.

Kucinich's message is good.

But it needs to be toned down just a tad.

And it needs a better messenger.

[LWolf]

7. No. He came across as passionate, determined, and angry.

Let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that these 9 candidates are not going to be targeting each other as the race heats up. Dennis has been targeted by Dean, and it is appropriate for him to respond.

It is also appropriate for him to get his message across loud and clear. He has been the frontrunner in opposing *; in opposing the war on Iraq; and in many other issues. He is the true progressive. Yet the mainstream media portrays Dean as the progressive (what a joke! Dean doesn't consider himself "liberal") and generally ignores Dennis. It is appropriate for him to clearly define the differences between his position and other candidates.

He isn't always angry, but every time I've watched or listened, including in person, he is determined. He is passionate. He is focused. I've also seen him relaxed. I've also seen him laughing and joking. He can "come across" as all of those things, because he is all of those things. One thing that you can count on, though. When he is making a point about something he cares about, he isn't going to be laid back. He is going to be passionate about it.

[glasschains]

10. What matters is the image

And his image is that of a fringe, whacko candidate with his performance last night.

[ewagner]

8. Strident

That's the correct word.

Dennis has done a lot to mobilize the party but he's coming across as small (in the character sense) and a little bit mean. Last night he was (in my opinion) trying too hard to "out Dean Dean".

[Orangepeel]

9. not crazy, but hostile

at least to me. IMHO, Dean has the unique ability to be angry and optimistic at the same time. That works for me because I am angry, but I need hope. I NEED to have the power!

To me, Kucinich just doesn't have that ability. He seems either angry or mournful about what America has become.

[Terwilliger]

12. he should be

and Dean comes across as phony...sorry, but what I know about him doesn't match his appearance

Dennis seems like the best possible candidate (and the only available candidate for progressives) but his stature and presentation are liabilities.

[Orangepeel]

15. To each his own

but mournful ain't gonna win no elections, justified or not.

[JewelDigger]

22. DK needs to be 'passionate' not 'hostile'

At least he's got the same 'feeling' that we here all share about the current state of our country (angry and/or mournful).

I hope that Dennis will be getting some coaching before any further debates/appearances to smooth off those rough edges and develop a 'style' that's effective without being offensive. Lord knows that the American people (and the world) have been offended enough in the past 2.5 years.

America needs someone with passion, vision, and courage not some hot-headed loose cannon.

[demigoddess]

40. I agree with that!!!!!!!

I got the impression that Kucinich was a firebrand but with no new ideas to back him up. Dean put out a few good, new ideas but because of his low key delivery some may not not hjave noticed. I loved his idea that we should collect social security taxes from the higher brackets that do not chip in now. Also Dean is aware that people are living longer and that raising the retirement age is not an unreasonable idea. Kucinich wants to hold on to 65 as retirement age, when people already can retire early if they are physically incapable of working. People who earn large salaries are more likely to work into their 70's and this should be encouraged, they can help support those who have to retire due to disablility.

[jagguy]

11. he appeared like a local pol

of course he is only a local pol so I guess it makes sense.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

13. Kucinich is way too far left and comes off as a lunatic

But I think it is pretty cute that he is all angry and stuff now.

[robbedvoter]

14. This was a forum, not a debate. He missed the distinction

It disturbed me that he seemed as angry at fellow Dems as he was at W - there was no nuance there.
But the Lazio moment really turned me off (Hillary's oponent, "the Pleasantville candidate" - s boyish, little guy walked to her in the debate and asked her to sign a commitment that she won't use soft money - she surged in polls after that because of his bullying manners)

[elcondor]

37. I agree

I like a lot of what Kucinich has to say, but I can't stand the way he delivers! He can be passionate without being confrontational (e.g. Robert Kennedy).

[On the Road]

16. The Phrase Applied to John Anderson is Apt:

"like a Volkswagen stuck in second gear." Having said that, I like DK and think he could widen his appeal by varying his tone and delivery.

[RichM]

17. No, that's overstating it. But he does need to work on his presentation.

His substance is by far the best in the field, IMO. His style, however, is not displaying what he has to offer to best advantage.

[Ripley]

18. Passionate for sure, but also a little snarly.

I like the guy, but I have a question. Last night he said the first thing he would do in office is cancel NAFTA, the second thing would be to cancel WTO.

I'm pretty sure I've heard him say in different forums that the "first thing" he would do would be to set up a Dept. of Peace, and a couple of other things. To me that is just crowd pleasing to redefine the first thing you're going to do by which group your're in front of at the time. I mean which will be the first thing he does?

However, a CSPAN caller after the forum said there was too much bickering at each other. HAH! Other than Kucinich doing the Dean/Gephardt attack thingy and the NAFTA/WAR vote thingy, who else was bickering????

[Terwilliger]

21. you're wrong

Kucinich has always said that he will cancel NAFTA first, cancel the WTO agreements, and scuttle the Patriot act.

Don't know what you were listening to.

[Ripley]

23. Okay.

But I swear I heard him say he would establish the Peace Dept. first.

I stand corrected.

[Terwilliger]

41. I guess he can't do more than one thing at a time?

What if he does these things all on the same day...will you still be worried about what he said to whom?

You claim he changes his tune to fit his audience. Frankly, Kucinich is one of the few who seems to believe in what he says to all of his audiences.

[nostamj]

20. "raving lunatic" ???

no. but, I found him difficult to watch. I can't see that attitude taking him to the presidency. I hope all these candidates continue to put ideas and issues out there--but a united front AGAINST BushCo is the key. strident confrontation of fellow Dems? not a wise move IMHO...

[ShaneGR]

24. I AM THE BEST CANDIDATE AND "INSERT OTHER" SUCKS!!!

That's the way he came off to me. God knows I'm not a big DK fan but I didn't expect him to go off the deep end like that. I know he represents a certain constituency, but calling out other candidates by name and screaming like that isn't exactly the way I want my Dem candidates behaving.

[Trek234]

31. This coming from a person

With a Tostitos Fiesta Bowl foot ball icon on every post...

[BeachBuckeye]

50. Thats "football"

and after 34 years since our last National Championship, excuse us if we have a little swagger.

[Terwilliger]

48. yes, leave it to Dem voters to act that way

especially toward other Dem candidates

[quilp]

25. I've heard UDs do nothing but whine about lack of "leadership"!

Now some one is apparently showing a bit of guts and passion he is "over the top". Make your mind up guys! ( and women (pc)).

[Kahuna]

26. Last night he did. He was shouting and talking fast..

like he was on some king of drugs. I like Dennis and he made some good points last night. I give him a "B" for substance and an "F" for presentation. Too bad.

[Trek234]

27. Posted this earlier...

(first I'd like to say, yes, I do support Kucinich - especially after today)

It seems to me that Kucinich is realizing that he is being shafted by certain candidates who are not being honest with the people. It seems that he is pointing out potential hypocrisy in other candidates so that perhaps they may loose favor and he will gain.

If Kucinich had not pointed out who voted for what today (i.e. NAFTA/WTO) I would probably have not known. In fact, before Kucinich did so by the manner in which they were speaking I would have assumed they had voted exactly the opposite.

I see nothing wrong with calling them on it during the primary time.

This is part of the reason American politicians like Bush get in office to begin with.

In Britain, for example, when Blair goes up and speaks before parliament they don't applaud every 5 damn seconds regardless of what is said. Instead they either laugh or throw out something when Blair speaks dishonestly. They don't mindlessly get up and clap. And you know what? The British don't have the majority of the government headed by radical right wingers either.

Bush once said the British were "rude" to do this. Apparently many DUers agree with Bush after watching Kucinich. Disapointing.

Well, maybe we can look forward to great debates with Bush in which he is not called on anything, is spoke kindly torwards, and have empty smiles everywhere.

<sigh> Democracy really is shot to hell in this country. There is a point when civility among politicians goes too far. We have far exceeded it.

[hexola]

28. It was like the same song over and over

He should have only used that "over the top" tactic once or twice in the debate...using it on every question made him seem repetitive, and generally crazed...

Sort of made every answer seem the same...

Using it once or twice would have been sufficient to come off as "passionate."

I think he ends up upstaging his own message with that approach.

Dennis the Menace!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

30. Funny that the media never refers to rightwingers as "raving lunatics"

A rightwinger can rant all day long and the media will never characterize it as the rantings of a "raving lunatic." The media will use words such as "strong" or "forceful" to describe it!

[Trek234]

34. Fortunately for republicans

Democrats are always too passive. Fearful of doing anything that is strong and forceful. Republican punching bags mostly.

There is a reason we are the minority in the governorships, the majority of state legislatures, the national congress, and the white house.

[w13rd0]

35. I liked Sharptons response to Kucinich...

..."I thought we'd at least get to September before we started hearing that kind of talk..."

I don't think Al approved. I mean hell, Al has said he'll support the nominee, and he knows it likely isn't going to be him, but by damned, he IS shaping the debate. DKs approach is not, and will not. I want to vote for a President, not a dictator or revolutionary. Visionary perhaps, but not revolutionary. Not yet, as bad off as we are, we aren't there yet...

[Sweetpea]

39. I don't think Sharpton gets enough credit.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w13rd0]

49. Ok...maybe we are...

...but I'd prefer pursuing it with as little bloodshed as possible..

[gully]

32. Yes...yes he did

[kentuck]

33. After Dennis gets thru raking them all over the coals....

it will be hard for the Repubs to paint either candidate as "liberal"...They can always say, 'Just ask Dennis'! :)

[Trek234]

36. Or

They could just quote democrats such as your self.

[kentuck]

46. Good or bad, he gave the people a contrast....

I like his passion. And I think if he was not as passionate as he is, he would be getting nowhere near the support he presently enjoys. Also, I think it is good for our Party.

[Sweetpea]

38. His style of speech and his look isn't helping him

When he said he would appoint a transgender to the Supreme Court at the Human Rights Campaign, I said this guy will never make it. We are still in the baby steps for gay rights.

[killbotfactory]

42. I think he comes off as incredibly shrill everytime he speaks

And last night he turned it up a couple notches.

YMMV

[jpgray]

43. No, but though he needs to take some risks, these weren't the best (nt)

[Northwind]

44. He came across as a panderer in the forum.

He promised to repeal Taft/Hartly? He COULD NOT repeal laws as President! This is the one thing he keeps doing that really irritates me, is promising to do something outside the scope of the office of President.