9/11 Commission Hearing (afternoon session) thread 2:

[Vadem]

Thread 1 (first afternoon session) here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1272713&mesg_id=1272713

[underpants]

1. USS Cole.....cruise missile strike could show weakness

Comparing capture of OBL to Saddam.

[Vadem]

2. Rummy reading his statement now.....n/t

[Kahuna]

3. Rummy is using his time giving his "brief" statement..

I saw Tom Kean roll his eyes. :evilgrin:

[Frank_Person]

5. Powell did the same thing- friggin' 45min. of bullshit.

[Kahuna]

28. I know. I can imagine smirky reading for his whole hour..

of time. Then, whoops! Time's up. Gotta go.

[burythehatchet]

45. I don't there's a toddler book that can be read for a whole hour

unless he reads good night moon like 37 times

[Wickerman]

4. Why can't Rummy pronounce Bin Laden

He sez Ben Lay-den instead of the more common Bin Law-den. Must be a reason.

[never cry wolf]

27. Lack of practice

It's cuz he's been so used to substituting Sadaam for so long.

[underpants]

6. Rummy recounting Feb.2001 briefing that he doesn't remember

except to say that it wasn't complete or a thurough plan.

A briefing I was told I was given...

A briefing I have been told I asked a lot of questions at....

[Vadem]

7. speaking of the future of terrorism...requiring us to think ...

differently than we did in the past, due to suicide bombers, trains, planes, etc. Shouldn't rely on a single centralized intel source...

[RoundRockD]

10. Why isn't there a time limit on their opening statements?

Shouldn't their valuable time be used to answer questions? Just asking.

[leftchick]

16. no shit... this is an obvious attempt to run out the clock

:grr:

[sadiesworld]

8. Will he be taking questions today?

WTF

[Vadem]

9. They are supposed to end by 5:00 and Wolfowitz, Myers...

haven't spoken yet, so probably not today. The Comm'n will probably ask fewer questions of them, just to finish by 5:00.

[underpants]

12. Just said, "In conclusion...."

:thumbsup:

[kentuck]

14. He's gonna filibuster the day away...

Obviously he doesn't want to take any questions so he's not gonna leave any time for questions? Wonder why??

[Catfight]

11. Is this Dumbsfield stump speech?

what the hell is he preaching? About not changing the current administration? It sounds like a Dumbsfield stump speech. Oh God, don't change the White House when we could be attacked again! We made the world safer..remember?

[jean]

13. William Cohen - what a ray of brilliance that man is!

I thought Kerrey predicated going after Rumsfeld by hitting Cohen "hard" first. Kerrey didn't upset me - all these people need to have their feet held to the fire.

It is a delight to see which ones are rising to the top due to their superior intellect and vision.

[underpants]

15. Now talking about his job as ME liaison under Reagan (Saddam pic era)

Talking about learning to put up concrete barriers but the terrorists adapted to them.

[Vadem]

17. Kerrey questioning--"Rumsfeld, my favorite witness"....n/t

[dryan]

19. 911 on Tonight?

Is the 911 comission hearings going to be rerun on Cspan tonight? I can't watch tv at work but I can at home tonight. I like to watch cspan while I iron -- yeah people still do that!

[Vadem]

21. C-Span usually repeats the hearings at night....check the

schedule at c-span.org.

[Frank_Person]

18. I like the way Kerry fellates all the republican assholes...

and then kicks Clinton in the nuts. That's just great. What a prick.

oH, WAIT... I THINK I'M WRONG. my bad.

[Frank_Person]

20. Remember Rummy "there are known knowns and unknown unknowns etc...

moron!

[Teddy_Salad]

22. Who's the guy...

...making funny faces on Kerrey's left?

Looks like a fool.

[Nashyra]

23. June and July

when chatter spiked why did the asshole went on vacation? They did not warn the fucking airlines, they might have warned the FAA but they did not warn the airlines, the flight crews were never warned nor was our security level raised which was done on more than one occassion when Clinton was in office.

[sadiesworld]

24. Exactly how much stock does Kerrey have...

in Boeing, GE, etc.?!

[underpants]

25. Kerrey states: NO new military options before 9/11

Our investigation has shown there were NO NEW military options available..

[Nashyra]

26. Kerrey going after Rice

[Cush]

29. Rummy: There are no targets in Afghanistan

[Vadem]

30. Is Rummy explaining his statement (according to R. Clarke)..

that there were no good targets in Afghanistan but lots of good ones in Iraq?

[leftchick]

35. I think he was hoping to deflect the oncoming question...

of his statement in Clarke's book. It ain't gonna work rumballs.

[readmylips]

31. Yeah..Rumbutt saying what Clarke said in his book...

Rumbutt didn't see important targets in Afghanastan...

[underpants]

32. Rummy:"As I have said There just aren't a lot of targets in Afghanistan"

BAM!

[Vadem]

33. Slade Gorton (R) questioning now... n/t

[underpants]

34. When were these people nominated?

Rummy begging that it took to long.

[chelsea0011]

36. I can't take this we had a plan that was, "unusual", "very complicated"

You would think they have reinvented the wheel. Let me paraphase. We did nothing and would like to now make it seem like we were busy saving America. But we all weren't under rocks. We know that the Crooked Administration had a complicated plan to figure out how Sprout could visit as many grade schools as possible in his 1st year of vacation(or Presidency as they believe).

[chelsea0011]

37. "Let me answer that two ways" Rummy

1. I don't know what you are talking about
2. You are all idiots

[leftchick]

38. Is it just me or does this Gorton guy look like..

a cadaver on six feet under? About as expresive as one also.

[chelsea0011]

40. Maybe that's why when I see his face, I keep thinking "Slate" Gordon

[readmylips]

39. Gorton kicking Rumbutts a$$....

That's the answer to my question...rumbutt failing.

[underpants]

42. Backing off:Tell us how you have been so successful for 2 1/2 years

in preventing another attack onthe US ....luck?

Hey have you noticed all the attacks on "American interests" in IRaq? They are called soldiers!!!!!! :grr:

[teach1st]

46. Didn't Clinton's admin go a long time too?

1993 attack and then no more on US soil, despite aborted attempts.

Is that correct?

[sadiesworld]

41. Yeah asshole...

heaving a few cruise missiles might have helped!

[kentuck]

43. And they used all the cruise missiles left over when Clinton left...

on every rock pile in Afghanistan. They wasted them all.

[burythehatchet]

54. wasn't wasted

some company has to make more. I wonder which company that would be.

[underpants]

44. Rummy on the difficulting of running a 90 nation coalition

:eyes:

[justsam]

47. they have spent the

whole day talking and not saying anything, mostly sucking up to each other

[Vadem]

48. How can he say everything is more difficult today, i.e., to

communicate, move equipment, etc., especially when we CAPPSII, Eschelon and Carnivore in communications? He's full of it, but, of course, we all know that!

[Vadem]

49. Ben-Veniste up now! Good! n/t

[Paradise]

50. some bipartisan 9/11 commission...

if it was truly bipartisan, we wouldn't be able to detect who are republicans and who are democrats, and we can. :puffpiece:
thanks for alerting me that it's back on, vadem.

[Vadem]

52. Sure, happy to, Paradise!.....n/t

[Cush]

51. Ben-Veniste: We knew they had plans/ideas to use planes as weapons

giving a list of examples


On Edit: It's a looooooong list

[matcom]

53. THEY ARE GONNA GET HIM NOW!!

about to bring up the FACT that we KNEW they wanted to use the PLANES AS WEAPONS!!!

HIT HIM HARD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cush]

55. FAUX is talking over Ben-Veniste

Can't let their viewers know this stuff

[underpants]

58. That guy is kicking some serious but today

First the list of POTUS appointees who have testified now the LONG list of intel and known plans to use commercial airliners as weapons ( 8 or 10 examples).

[wyldwolf]

56. been out of the loop all day - how is it looking so far?

[chelsea0011]

61. Bush came into his Presidency running in the fight against terrorism

Well,at least one side has claimed that

[wyldwolf]

62. Who is looking the worst?

[chelsea0011]

74. Clinton was at least pro-active. The Crooked Ones didn't do much at all

They had some very complicated plan to try something new and unique that had never been done before in the history of the world. Utter nonsense!

[underpants]

64. 3 threads on it

Albright was okay lots of "let's remember to put ourselves in pre-9/11 mindset"

Powell read for a while and then made sure he mentioned "Not swatting flies but eliminating" several times basically he repeated Condi's talking points from yesterday. ARmitrage gave Clarke a bit of props.

Cohen was cool as a cucumber. Smooth and pre-emptive, he answered quesitons before they were asked.

Rummy....is being Rummy but milder than ususal. He has confirmed (by mistake I think) the "they were no good targets in Afghanistan" line Clarke mentioned.

[sadiesworld]

57. An aside re. Faux...

Shunned hearings all day until Rumsfield testimony. Switched sound off and went to split screen when "planes as weapons" questioning started.

[Cush]

59. Rummy: I don't recall seeing it (other two with him say the same)

Ben-Veniste brings up the incident where the guy tried to fly the plane into the WH

[xultar]

60. They are fucking lying...I know they concieved that planes could be used

as weapons.

FUCKERS!

[chelsea0011]

63. Of course

Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

[chelsea0011]

67. Oh wait a minute, I just found out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???$^&^^$%$Holy Good GOD

[underpants]

73. Ben-Veniste"BUT NO ONE DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT"

ON planes being used which Rummy said that he didn't say THEY didn't know about but that HE didn't know about.....civil aviation flyer suddenly is handed to him.....now trying to give some "context".

[VolcanoJen]

68. They ABSOLUTELY knew planes could be used as weapons.

Why else did Ashcroft stop flying commercial in July '01?

Please, everyone read this EXCELLENT post by DemoTex, who also knew. His points are fascinating, and I think this thread is a must-read:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1263588

[Tansy_Gold]

97. Military District of Washington

Not sure if their website is still alive and still has the photos, but they had a training exercise just a few months before 9/11 in which they had a mock-up of a jetliner crashing into or landing in the "courtyard" of the Pentagon. I have the info on my home computer; am at work now and can't access it.

So the Donald is full of shit if he claims hijackings were the purview only of civilian aviation.

Tansy Gold, who really has to get to work and make it look like she's done something productive today

[Cush]

65. Ben-Veniste: They sent out a memo, but nobody did anything

[Vadem]

66. "Why wasn't the US protected? We knew there were two

operatives in the US and there was no notice to the airlines to anywhere else..." Nobody did a thing about it!

[AZCat]

71. Rummy's passing the buck

Claiming civilian aircraft hijackings are not his concern...

[Cush]

69. Gorelick now up asking the Q's

Good grief, he doesn't even know the acronyms?

[Vadem]

70. Jamie Gorelick back up to question now....nt

[xultar]

72. OMFG Hijackings are to be handled by Local Authorities...WHICH ONES

Does it change based on which AIR SPACE the plane is flying over
Rummy=Dummy!

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[Vadem]

75. "In this summer of threat, what did you do to protect the...

Pentagon?" Is there anything that we did at the Pentagon to prevent that harm?

Rummy: The DOD monitored the flight but did not have the authority to shoot down the plane that was being hyjacked.... We're in the flight pattern... no way to deal with that, at all."

[htuttle]

76. Quick! Somebody shout out just two words!

Payne Stewart!

[xultar]

78. HELL YEAH! n/t

[Cush]

83. not the subject of this hearing (the Time Line)

the actaul timeline will be discussed on another day

[VolcanoJen]

124. Exactly!! Ex-freaking-actly!!!!

Arrggghh!! I'm pretty frustrated...

[notadmblnd]

79. did rumsfield go to the command center that day?

I could have swore I read in richard clarks book that rumsfield sat in a studio at the pentagon?

[Corgigal]

80. To protect OUR airspace

Rummy was in charge of this. Rummy is saying that they had so many airlines in the flight pattern and I guess he thought this was a good reason not to scramble. Bullshit...the terrorist planes were already uncontrolled in controlled airspace. We would have been able to control and vector the military aircraft for a hook up and would not have been them in harms way.

We need a controller in these hearing also.

[The Backlash Cometh]

104. That can't be true. Rumsfeld said that the order had been given to shoot

down commercial planes if necessary. He didn't give the order, but he had heard that it had been given.

[xultar]

77. You'd a thought Rummy was born on on 9/12/01...WTF...? n/t

[matcom]

81. NORAD!! NORAD!! NORAD!!

oh FUCKING FINALLY THIS IS BEING TALKED ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FINALLY

[htuttle]

85. Did I hear Gorelick say she wanted to get back to the NORAD issue...

...and look at a more detailed timeline, sometime later on?

Does that mean what I think it means? Did one of us (or hundreds of us) finally get her attention?

[Cush]

89. yup, thats the subject of another hearing

[Corgigal]

92. Well their better be

because Rummy just told any would be terrorist if you attack our planes during peak time we can't scramble. Of course due to safety which really helped the people in the towers of course.

[Vadem]

82. Gorelick: "Was it your understanding that the NORAD pilots

circling Washington, had the order to shoot down the planes."

Rummy: The command had been given instruction to shoot down commerical airliners filled people."

The order to shoot down the plane was on a conference all and everybody (pilots) heard it."

Gorelick: Did the NORAD pilots themselves have the authority to shoot down the plane?

Rummy: I don't know what they thought.

[notadmblnd]

91. Why doesn't he know what they thought?

Is he not the Sec of Defence? Isn't it his job to make sure those pilots know exactly what to think? Isn't that what the military is about?

[lostnfound]

125. He was quibbling with words to avoid the question.

"I don't know their thoughts" -- is not the same as "I don't know if they knew" or "I don't know what they were told".

[Andy_Stephenson]

84. Rummy either knew 1 of 2 things

He either knew if there were orders to shoot down

Or he is not Secy of Defense...of course he knew.

[xultar]

90. Maybe he was taking a shit and he didn't know...

:hurts:

[xultar]

86. So now they are heros because there were other Int'l Hijak squawk

on 9/11 later in the day. I don't buy it. Fuck'em

:wtf:

[The_Gopher]

87. who is this guy in the grey suit asking the Qs now?

[Vadem]

88. Tim Roemer now up to question....

Roemer: Did you consider Al Caedo to be the first order of threat and how did you practice this threat?

Rummy: We did consider it a serious threat...and drove us to a conclusion that they were active and were planning, hoping to do various damage. ...

Roemer: Special Ops were not used then, right?

Rummy: not against Al Caeda

[chelsea0011]

93. "Our records say no"

POW

[mtnester]

98. Oh but I had separate (sic unverifiable)

meetings with others, and some lunch dates

edit - typo

[htuttle]

101. Sure they met

They just didn't write any of it down. :eyes:

If I just heard Roemer correctly, the Bush administration didn't have ANY principle's meetings about terrorism until 9/4.

[The_Gopher]

94. "our records say 'No.'" Ha.

[chelsea0011]

100. "Oh really" Rummy's reply

This is too funny. Rummy is just finding out they spent no time talking about Al Qaeda prior to Sept 4th. Unbelievabale

[Andy_Stephenson]

95. Roehmer to Rummy

What were you doing? How were you pushing it out?

Rummy "We did it differently...Condi Rice Powell and I talked every day after our intelligence briefing and had lunch once a week!"



Once a fucking week!

[Vadem]

96. Were there meetings with the principals on terrorism?

Rummy: I was meeting with the Pres. every week. I made a decision to develop a close link with the intelligence agencies. (Doesn't mention the Office of Special Ops from the Pentagon).

[robbedvoter]

99. Did you have any meetong before september 4? "I think so"

"Our record says no" "Is that so?"
There. Rummy vindicates Clarke.

[chelsea0011]

102. It's amazing. He has just been informed that he is clueless

[mtnester]

107. Wolfowitz

April 30 deputies meeting:

"A plan is not a military option, it is a single play in football, its like a hail mary pass a desparate, losing team does" "7 months was not a long period of time"

I fail to understand how anything done in Afghanistan could have prevented 911

killing a few relatively low level Al Quada would not have been a worthy thing to do

on edit - typo

[robbedvoter]

103. Why did you decide that the Cole trail was old and stale?

It was Rummy who abandoned the hunting of OBL! Why? he was concerned about a misile attack! Wow!

[Cush]

105. Roehmer to Wolfowitz: Did you bring up Iraq on April 30, 2001?

[robbedvoter]

108. Wolfowitx going miles around before answering...options, not a plan

he basically confirms - quibles with terminology. Eliminate afghanisstan as a refuge for terrorists - a much more ambitious thing.

[robbedvoter]

112. I didn't say "Ignoring AlQuaeda rhetoric is like ignoring Hitler in

mein Kampf' as Clarke sez. I actually used this a lot about Saddam. he goes to other quibbles. "You are doing very well for not having read the book"

[PaDUer]

121. interesting that the freeps are cheering for rummy..

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1103872/posts?q=1&&page=201

[Cush]

106. Wolfowitz: Bush brought up Iraq in Jan 2002

but there was no plan to attack


Suuuuure

[mtnester]

110. Wolfowitz

he did not deny clarkes quote about him, he just said it did not represent his thoughts

[burythehatchet]

109. SHUT UP WOLFOWITZ

you FUCKING bastard

[mtnester]

115. What would just about finish the Bushies

is if there was another attack during the testimomy somewhere in the world. If I was an Al Queda...(I'm not)...that would be my 48 hour goal

[Vadem]

111. Wolfowitz speaking now. ...

"A plan has to anticipate what each country will do. You have to call plays--to put a plan together in 7 months was not a long time to do so. Pres. wanted to see options against Iraq...

"Senator Gorton I fail to understand how killing a few low level Al Caeda in Afghanistan would have prevented 9/11...

"With respect to Mr. Clarke, reporter called and read quote to me... an objection to Mr. Clarke suggesting that ignoring the rhetoric of Al Cadea is like ignoring the rhetoric of Hitler.. I did not make that statement." (paraphrasing)

[never cry wolf]

113. Goddamn phone was ringing, what was it wolfowitless just said

And was that a groan from the crowd over it?

[robbedvoter]

114. Lehman "hate to use Clarke as an authority" - why is that? eom

[Andy_Stephenson]

116. Rummy

"I am genetically impaitent"


Yeah...we know :eyes:

[robbedvoter]

117. Rummy - "I am genetically impatient"

Superb job gen Franks did .... babbles...

[Andy_Stephenson]

119. Could you believe that???

genetically impaitent my ass.

[0007]

120. Dick, do you want to comment on that?

[0007]

118. I'm getting dizzy listening to these clown go around in circles

and then all of Rumsfeld hands and arms gyrations to express his stupid statements.

[robbedvoter]

122. Dick, you wanna answer that? They get to come in bunches to bounce

answers from one another. kean is blowing him now - come back, please!
THE END

[Vadem]

123. Chairman Kean thanking them all.....

Tommorrow will begin at 8:30 a.m. Long day today...longer day tomorrow!

Rummy thanks Kean and says that the Commission is doing a very important mission. (He is just glad that he is off the public hot seat for now)

[Jawja]

126. This cube rat

wants to thank all you folks for keeping us informed throughout the day. Occasionally I could get CSPAN over my computer in the office, but had trouble keeping it.

I appreciate a job well done!!

:hi: