What was the tipping point for liberal resurgence?

[WillyBrandt]

What even (or tightly contained series of events) was the tipping point for liberals fighting and standing up for themselves?

I don't mean something vague like the Iraq War (in fact, I just remember this leading to more liberal dissemilation).

My bet: Al Franken chewing out Bill O'Reilly at the Book Expo.

ON EDIT: My Personal tipping point: Reading in the Guardian about Wolfowitz saying that WMD were chosen for bureaucratic reasons. The total nihilism and malignancy of these fools suddenly hit me like a pan in the face. I knew that they were bad before, but I knew it on a visceral level; and I became determined to work afterwards.

[kalian]

1. Don't know....

maybe another rigged election....?
Maybe an "October surprise"...?
How about now?

[mstrsplinter326]

2. Al Gore not being able to carry Tennessee

Or Joe Liberman, in general.

[WillyBrandt]

4. I remember that making liberal dispirited

That added to the seething, impotent anger, but didn't start turning our taken punches into delivered counterpunches.

[mstrsplinter326]

16. It's what got me into politics

[Kathy in Cambridge]

3. 2002 elections-not the 2000 debacle

I think the way Max Cleland and other Dem candidates were treated by the Republican spin machine pissed a lot of people off.

[WillyBrandt]

5. Good point

It's one thing to be fired from your job unfairly (2000). But it's when you suddenly find yourself in the gutter for no reason (2002) that you start getting deterimined to get your act together.

[Joanne98]

7. I agree 2002

Then we found out about the voting machines. big deal. HUGH DEAL

[NewHampshireDem]

18. That could be as well ...

Since combined with the Clinton impeachment trial, the 2000 election, the non-existent WMDs (I could go on but I won't) it becomes clearer and clearer that the Repugs play a "win at all costs" game. I think that flies in the face of the sense of fair play most Americans have.

BTW, I think it was Charles Schumer who made a similar point about the Repugs on the Daily Show this week. If I remember correctly, he said the difference between the left and right was that the left fought for principles and the right fought to win.

[supernova]

6. The 2000 election

the way the SCOTUS handled it, that they were even involved in the first place, caused A LOT of bitterness in ways I don't think they thought about before hand.

And I would say before that, the constant witchhunt for nonexistent Clinton scandals put us liberals on slow boil.

[Qanisqineq]

14. I agree

that's when I woke up and started paying attention. I voted before that, but didn't really pay attention to the world.

My second awakening came when the Iraq War was being planned, even before my husband was deployed to it.

[ulTRAX]

37. nonsense

I beg to differ. The Dems had no message after losing 2000 to an anti-democratic abomination called the EC. They didn't have the balls to place the blame where it belonged... but instead blamed Florida, the GOP goon squad and the SCOTUS. Only a few called for the abolition of the EC when they should have been questioning the moral legitimacy of ANYONE who wins without at least 50%+1 of the vote. The Dems, as usual, were AWOL on democracy itself. Their moral cowardice disgusts me. Even here at the DU many members who SHOULD know better defend to the death the anti-democratic nature of our Constitution.

[supernova]

40. Not at all

If you're talking about the Dem Leadership during the 2000 selection, you're right.

But there is a big difference between the leadership and everyday Dems. I'm talking about rank and file Dems who do the grunt work to get Dems elected. There was A LOT of anger then. Perhaps you just weren't paying attention to other people, not on TV, then.

Look here's a clue: Leaders don't really lead in western republics. They respond to the mood of the populace. It's that whole "consent of the governed thing." A good leader will articulate that mood and try to channel it in healthy ways. It is the populace who give our reps the permission to act in ways they might not.

My point is that mood on the populace started long before where we are today. One of the reasons, I identify myself as a liberal is that I don't have to wait for a cue from the leadership about how to think about a subject. I tell them what they need to be saying. Me and millions of others.

[NJCher]

8. for other politicians

It was seeing that Howard Dean was getting traction from it.

Originally, Dean was going to run primarily on health care. While campaigning, however, he criticized bush and learned there was a huge, pent-up demand for someone to call it like it is. The rest, as they say, is history.


Cher

[ThomWV]

9. The Aircraft Carrier Stunt

I date the fall of the Son of a Bitch from the landing on the Aircraft Carrier. What will that be, 1 year in May?

[Guava Jelly]

10. The Media was the Tipping Point

We were tired of being lied to!!!!

"Ive had just about enough of you"..J.T.Kirk as he kicks a Klingon off a cliff in the search for spock

[eleny]

11. The growing realization that there were no WMDs

This was the "actual fact" proven day by day by day that proved Franken among others to be accurate about right wing lies. Asserting it is one thing. Having the fact stand up under the bright light of scrutiny cemented the resolve of the left. No WMDs became our leg to stand on - our foundation that has never been shaken.

[ThomWV]

12. On Second Thought ... Karen Hughs Leaving

When she decided to hoof it back to Texas the Son of a Bitch went flat and it just went down hill from there. I wish she had moved to Bogata ....

[jumptheshadow]

13. Many events, but one springs to mind

It involved a confluence of circumstances, Willy, but I think the Iraq war energized people, revived them, made them want to fight again.

Then there was that awe-inspiring sight of millions of people marching against the war around the world coupled with Bush's arrogant and curt dismissal of the groundswell of grassroots protest.

That day, when the images of protesters came streaming through the Internet and (to a much lesser degree) on TV, helped bolster the spirits and the resolve of the dissenters here.

[NewHampshireDem]

15. I'm glad you raised that question ...

I was thinking about that very question myself last night. If we are indeed entering a new progressive era (coming back around, as history always does), what is the tipping point?

I don't think it was the 2000 election. 9/11 really squashed that.

Was it the aftermath of 9/11 and the loss of America's standing in the world because of the Iraq invasion?

Is is the proof--which we are now living through--that trickle-down economics is really vodoo economics?

Is it the corporate scandals that have gone unpunished under our first MBA president? (When was the last time you heard the Chimp refered to by that epithet?)

Is it Howard Stern attempting to motivate his millions of listeners to vote out Chimpy?

I wish I knew--I'd put it in a bottle and save it for the next time we need it!

[WillyBrandt]

17. That's why I say Franken

He sputtered out all the total anger and outrage we have at O'Reilly, then a ton of stuff comes thereafter. Our anger was validated and articulated.

The anti-Bush books, etc.

[NewHampshireDem]

19. But ...

don't those books largely preach to the choir? What made "Dude" and "Lying Liars" bestsellers in the first place? I mean, I bought them for the same reason I didn't buy Coulter, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly ... (gotta go wash my hands now)

[WillyBrandt]

21. I misspoke (miswrote?)

It seems that after Franken came a flood of anti-Bushism in the form of books, internet activism (particularly w/ Howard Dean), and liberals finally realizing that YOU CAN PREACH TO THE CHOIR!

[murielm99]

20. For me, it was the 2000 election.

Seeing chimpy standing there, with his arrogance, thinking he was entitled to the presidency!

I was mad before that, at the way they treated Clinton. I hated Newt and his Contract on America. I hated the impeachment, too.

But I thought my vote counted. I thought I was voting to keep these people out of power.

[eileen from OH]

22. 2002 election and No Child Left Behind

2002 election
Watching the Dems fall all over themselves trying to show how much they "supported" the President and then watching as each of 'em were positively trashed anyway. Stoopid, stoopid Dems. There's Mary Landrieu who supported him and had everything, absolutely EVERYTHING thrown at her. Stoopid, stoopid Dems. We didn't believe the damn "uniter, not divider" crap but they evidently did. Stoopid, stoopid Dems.

No Child Left Behind
As a former teacher and a big supporter, I highly resented the entire concept on which NCLB was based on - namely, what's wrong with education are these slacker teachers/schools and let's find 'em and punish 'em, dammit. Take desperately needed funds and divert 'em from where they're needed and put into TESTING, fer Gawd's sake. Ask any teacher what she/he needs and I'd be willing to bet you'd get a ton of answers, none of which would be "more tests."

eileen from OH

[Joanne98]

29. Dems rolling all over themselves

Never forgot that scene of Dems scrambling to sing God Bless America with the Thugs. I can't even tell you what that was for because my mind blocked the horror out.

[ulTRAX]

23. DEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Democrats/liberals EVER had a chance to show some backbone it was to fight for democracy after the 2000 election. But in large part the Dems/Libs caved... pissing and moaning about Florida and the USSC rather than see the REAL problem as our anti-democratic Constitution. Bush had the Democrats just where he wanted them... so much so he felt confident enough to fight an illegal war. Talk about balls.

In that context the I believe it was Dean who gave the Democrats some spine to fight back.

[Paradise]

34. DEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and

I'm a diehard Clarkie!
Here's to the one, the only, the original Mr. Backbone :toast:

[many a good man]

24. Election 2002 and Howard Dean

1) The huge midterm losses showed the utter futility of Bush*-lite-ism.

2) People-powered Howard demonstrated the huge grass roots resentment and made it OK to sling arrows against Bush's* post 911 invincibility. God only knows there's more than enough material to sling back in their face.

3) The debacle in Iraq makes it permissible for the mainstream news media to criticize the misadmistration, which gives traction to everything we've been saying all along.

[indigo32]

25. Personally I was furious in 2000

but this is an interesting question. * still seems to think he can get away with anything, and he can't anymore. I would pin in on the growing realization of what a failure this war has been. I don't think that fight on book channel got enough play to make a large difference (though it was certainly fun to wathc O'Reilly loose it like that). I think it's a gradual thing and at some point they crossed the line.

[hippiechick]

26. I don't think we're at the tipping point yet.

Getting close, perhaps ...


Maybe today's protests across the country will become the moment of snyergy the left needs, but I don't see a 'liberal resurgence' yet. If there had been one, Dean or Kucunich would be the nominee, not Kerry.

What we're seeing in the media and in Congress, etc, is just the beast starting to stretch and yawn. It ain't fully awake yet. At least I hope this isn't all we've got.


:hippie:

[WillyBrandt]

27. Locking

This discussion is too interesting and civil.

:P

[indigo32]

28. Hey!

:P

[WillyBrandt]

30. I put out an alert

Per DU rules, moderators aren't allowed to question moderator impersonators. :)

[kaitykaity]

31. Expecting Bush to be treated to the same contempt and

abuse that Clinton received, and being absolutely shocked at the kid-gloves candy-ass sucking of the corporate media. After the selection, I think that woke a lot of liberals up to the 'unfairness' of the game, and how rigged it is against us.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charlie]

33. Personally?

The Reagan years. Then Gingrich and his ilk amplified my horror that the gov't had been hijacked for the very authoritarian purposes the so-called conservatives had been obsessing about for decades.

Popularly? I doubt we're there yet. Maybe we're on the cusp. Maybe.

[caledesi]

35. Two words: Howard Dean nt

[dkf]

36. Howard Dean created the atmosphere for the tipping point

Prior to Dean, people were too afraid to speak out strongly against Bush lest their patriotism be questioned.

Howard Dean made it OK to criticize Bush.

Even now he leads the curve in creating and molding conventional wisdom and he is damned convincing due to his conviction and passion.

Dean is the most potent weapon we have against Bush and even though I'd have loved to see him as President, I have to say that he's more lethal to Bush as a non-candidate attack pitbull than as a candidate cuz he can LET IT RIP.

[caledesi]

42. Totally agree on HD. I think Dean is taking the liberal stigma away. nt

[donsu]

38. 2000 coup d'etat

nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Personally? The election of Ronald Reagan

For the country as a whole, I think the 2002 elections were a shock. I still remember watching the nationwide returns at the Portland Dems' election night gathering, and how the bar was crowded with people silently downing their stiff drinks.

[NewHampshireDem]

41. It's (Still) the Economy, Stupid ...

Not that you're stupid, just pulling out an old fav ...

I enjoy watching CNN's Lou Dobbs because I love watching conservatives slam Bush--and lately you'd have the impression that no one, left or right thinks he can do a damn thing right ... From outsourcing, to the deficit, to budget shenanigans (Medicare and war supplementals), to rising oil prices.

As much as I appreciate what Dean has done, I don't think he's the one that made it safe to bash Bush. It made it safe for libs to bash Bush, but his own party has been doing it since he was elected. When he ran on the lie of "compassionate conservatism," many conservatives railed that he was not conservative enough.

Now, he's gone on to show that he is neither compassionate--because of his inane socially conservative policies--nor conservative--because of his insane economic policy. Why do you think he wants to run on, of all things, GAY MARRIAGE? It's the only thing he's got that can prove to his party that he is, in fact, a conservative. I'd call him a RINO, but that would imply that he was somehow secretly a democrat. What will ultimately defeat Bush is that he is a man in search of an ideology.

[supernova]

43. RR frosted me as well

I've been politically aware since Watergate, age 11-12. But I wasn't really fearful for this country until RR was elected my freshman year in college.

I had african-american friends telling me "bye bye" because they (american citizens all) were genuinely afraid of being shipped back to africa! :scared:

As I watched Reagan I realized it wasn't him so much (bad enough) but that he made it OK, he created an atmosphere, where it was ok to say racist, intolerant things, make decisions based on the flimsiest of evidence.

Bottom line: I blame Reagan for making ignorance fashionable, noble even.

[camero]

44. Myself personally. Election 2000

I think for Liberals as a whole it was the proposals for Bunker buster nukes. Somebody finally got around to seeing what these assholes were capable of.

Goldwater wasn't elected because of his proposal to use tactical nukes in Vietnam. People should be asking themselves whose finger is on the button with GWB also. I would rather it be Kerry's finger than Shrub's.

[RichM]

45. It hasn't happened yet, though some forces are moving into alignment.

There is a very substantial amount of discontent - even hatred of Bush - & a sense that his crowd is swindling average Americans out of their future. Millions of people understand that the 2000 election was stolen, & that the Iraq war was a tremendous crime.

However, this discontent lacks political consciousness & guidance. It is inchoate & unfocused, and may well come to nothing if it is not properly channeled.

[sir_captain]

46. For me, it was watching Al Gore in Iowa in 2000

misrepresenting Bill Bradley's agricultural record to Iowan farmers. Really, that whole primary season made me furious.

[Lexingtonian]

47. hmmmm....

I'd say the whole saga of lies and (mostly suppressed) scandals emanating from the Bush Administration especially about Iraq and especially the WMDs between June and mid-December.

I mean, they really declared their moral bankruptcy and lack of any constructive plans for anything, domestic or international, so openly that it was pathetic. All they actually know about is stopgap measures shifting blame or attention away from themselves, exploiting the gullible and abusing the weak, and ruining their perceived rivals.

It was utterly unmasked, real, active, nihilism that we came face to face to, beyond any concealing by hypocrisies and lies. And naked nihilism is the one thing liberals consider truly unbearable. Morons who still believe in something that isn't utterly selfdefeating can be tolerated to the extent that they can be kept at arm's length from our individual interests; active nihilists are just pure vicious parasites on the living with covert death wishes.

Franken calling O'Reilly on it was a little skirmish of the type in a battle theater full of that kind of confrontation.