could bush survive a debate with kerry? will he even try?

[mopaul]

i remember when dumbya was campaigning, and the subject of debates came up, and the repubs went into debating first, but when it came time to debate gore, dumbya sorta hid out for a spell, and was severely accused of ducking the debate.

of course, the two had three debates, and i'm still mad at al for blowing it.

not to endorse him or reject him, but i suspect that kerry could fairly well trounce w in a legitimate debate, on any subject.
in fact, it could well be the total live prime time melt down of w, and his ultimate ruin, that we've all been fantasizing about.

w has no clue what to say if it isn't fed directly into his earpiece from offstage, or from a teleprompter in front of his monkey face.
witness his grueling meet the press disaster. when and if kerry finally faces the thick headed simian under the hot lights and glare of millions of p.o.'d dems AND repubs, little george could finally be exposed, and his true form revealed. that of a large cockroach in an expensive suit.

but.....WILL w even have a debate?

[molly]

1. I think Kerry's campaign team should start "inviting"

every single day.

[Hoosier Democrat]

2. How about a series of five debates...

Weekly, up to election Eve.

Moderated by Tim Russert

Candidates question each other for half of it


Damn, having an imagination is cool!!!!

:spank:

[mopaul]

13. cool...except for the tim russert part

with w wired up to get shocked every time he tells a lie.

russert? i'd go for just about any moderator but him

[LiberalFighter]

14. Not just gw* wired...

The moderators should also be wired to get shocked too.

[kath]

33. Ewwwwww, not Tim Russert!! He's such a #^&!in whore!

[OneTwentyoNine]

42. I'll take a non media whore for the moderator,that excludes Russert..nt

[adriennel]

3. does W have to debate?

I don't think he does, and I bet BushCo will do everything in their power to avoid a Kerry/Bush debate. There's no way a debate can make Georgie look good....well, unless Kerry panders as much to Bush as Gore did, uck!

[LiberalFighter]

16. Get a stand in that looks and talks like gw*

Let the people know up front this gw* is more real than the real gw*.

[Yupster]

40. Bush has debated

in every race he's ever run.

If he wasn't afraid to debate Al Gore or Anne Richards why would anyone think he'd be afraid of John Kerry?

[OneTwentyoNine]

45. Yeah,because he had to....

Its painfully obvious that Chimp doesn't like to speak before a crowd unless its a totally controlled situation. Rove makes the rules and Bush speaks. They cover up boxes and hit military bases and Bush speaks.

He won't enjoy any debates with Kerry,I'll be looking forward to all of them.

David

[OneTwentyoNine]

43. Get that Bush look alike that Leno uses...

Hell,he looks just like Chimp(my deepest sympathy) and problem has more common sense. He could stand in...


David

[dennis4868]

4. It does not matter...

how well Kerry does or how poorly Bush does in the debates. The post debate analysis by the media will say that Bush won and Kerry was awful (this is what happened in 2000 when Gore clearly won the debates.)

[phantom power]

12. that was the day

Discouraging, but true. That was the day I realized something had gone deeply wrong with media coverage of politics. I'll never forget it. Gore could have come across much stronger than he did, but the post-debate "discussion" after all three debates was completely focused on wardrobe, mannerisms, anything except issues.

[dennis4868]

15. I agree....

But I thought Gore did great in the debates. He clearly demonstrated a clear understanding of the issues and laid out his plans for America. Bush on the other hand used catchy phrases and was lying all over the place and of course the media did not hold him accountable for anything. For example, during the debate Bush tells Gore that he pushed though a patients bill of rights. The truth is that the Texas legislature passed the bill against Bush's wishes and Bush vetoed the bill and the legislature overided the veto and the bill was passed. But in the debates the media was bragging how well Bush didd and how Gore is a liar. This is when I first realized something was very wrong....i mean very very wrong and knew Gore did not have much of a chance.

[mopaul]

18. al WAS the better debater, & the press spun it

and i voted for al and would again, but everyone is right, gore 'won' the debate hands down. the next day the media said, 'too much makeup'
'stood too close to w', 'seemed TOO hung up on details', 'talked over the audiences head's', etc.

we can't let that happen this time. if they do it again, we call em on it loudly

[ironflange]

22. That's the liberal news media for ya

[nostamj]

24. yeah, you gotta love the liberal 'news'.....

To the tune of “Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo”

KOBE AND MARTHA
MICHAEL AND JANET’S
SUDDENLY TELEVISED BOOB...
TWENTY-FOUR-SEVEN AND WHAT DO WE SEE?
CERTAINLY NOTHING LIKE NEWS!

LOOK THERE’S A CAR CHASE
SOME CELEB’S SEX LIFE
NOTHING BUT YAPPING YAHOOS...
TWENTY-FOUR-SEVEN AND WHAT DO WE SEE?
CERTAINLY NOTHING LIKE
CERTAINLY NOTHING LIKE
CERTAINLY NOTHING LIKE NEWS!

[blondeatlast]

50. ROFLMAO!

Off to a good start, I see! Wish I could contribute something but I seem to have run out of wit lately.

[KansDem]

30. I know what you mean...

When I watched the debates and then heard the media whores say Bush won, I thought "Did we all watch the same debate?"

[aldebaran]

37. It's different now

The powers that be realize what a disaster they created, and now that they have an acceptable alternative (Kerry), they will bring down the shrub.

[rucky]

5. It'll be an Arnold-style debate

questions in advance & approved by the WH.

[BOSSHOG]

6. No, but Kerry should insist on debates right now

AND, Kerry and his team should insist on ground rules. Bludgeon the white house now with requests. Make bush's failure to debate fairly a campaign issue. I doubt rove will allow it to happen since he won't let junior spend more than one hour with the 9/11 commission and then in private and with only two members. This issue could be shoved right up the right wings ass. Their man of integrity, the big bad war president is afraid to debate a liberal from Massachusetts.

[seabeyond]

7. remembering back

i dont think al blew it so much as he didnt have a chance.

bush did horribly and lied thru out,. they even had lie barometer yet was set up for gore. gore had like three exaggerations and that was stretching and bush had 11 lies. yet they didnt publicize it cause wasnt against gore

bush was made so less that all he had to do was remember his name and he was deemed a success

it didnt matter how gore presented self he was relentlessly attacked. couldnt win.....bottomline. even though easily won in non bias, but bush low expectations didnt work

bush got to attack. if gore went after policy, he was accused of clinton attack

so i just dont think it is anywhere close ot being the same looking back

[NewJeffCT]

8. don't get overconfident

Gore could have destroyed Bush, but never did... and probably lost points for looking exasperated and rolling his eyes. A lot of people accuse Bush of being stupid, and I don't think he is.... he may mangle the language, take excessive vacations and be generally disinterested in details, but I don't think he's stupid.

We need to approach this like we're a huge underdog... start setting up the eventual nominee as an underdog scrapper who is lucky to be in the same ring as W*.

[Jackpine Radical]

26. You're absolutely right. Bush isn't stupid.

I want to scream every time I see or hear people accusing him of that. He has accumulated a lot of sins, but he's not dumb. "Dumbness" just gets him off the hook, and maybe even helps Joe Nascar identify with him.

[damnyankee2601]

35. I'm not convinced.

Clearly the puppet masters are smart. I'm not so sure the puppet is.

[lapislzi]

36. No, but he is very much a loose cannon

He is snippy and testy when he's unscripted and put on the spot. He honestly doesn't see why he should have to answer for his policies, and this will come through loud and clear. If you give him enough rope, he will surely hang himself with his own bad attitude. He will come off like the juvenile frat boy he is.

[NewJeffCT]

44. that is true

But, Gore didn't do that because he underestimated Bush and believed the "Bush is stupid" mantra that made * a regular, down-to-earth guy...

[retread]

38. "Stupid is as stupid does"!!! n/t

[vi5]

9. Last time around he had the "low expectations" thing...

If he has to rely on that after 4 years in the presidency then people will see that for being just flat out sad...which it is.

Kerry needs to watch the same things Gore had to watch for. Not sounding or seeming stiff or humorless and not being long winded.

As much as I hate repeated catch phrases, they do work and they are effective and Kerry seems to be picking up on this so that's a good sign for me at least.

[sadiesworld]

10. Gore made a few mistakes, but won handsdown in the debates....

It's just that the media didn't report it that way. It IS frightening how the media so effectively convinced people that they had seen something totally different than what they had just witnessed.

[bushisanidiot]

11. No, Pres. Shitferbrains Could NOT survive a debate with Senator Kerry

and he knows it.

[Kamika]

17. Bush wouldn't only debate.. he'd win it.

Kerry: So Mr President just how are you going to handle the enourmus deficit? I have a plan that WILL work but will require alot of hard work!

Bush: nineoneone

Kerry: Excuse me , you didn't answer my questions just how are you planning to address it?

Bush: *showing V signs with his hands* Saddam!

Kerry: Excuse me but he isn't answering my..

The debate leader: That was Senator Kerrys time. Now over to President Bush.



Bush: Al Quaida...

*silence*

Bush: nineoneone

*silence*

Bush: *smirking*

*kerry sweating badly.. looking mighty annoyed*

Bush: *Smirks*

*kerry hides his face in his hands.. *

Bush: U S of A!!!!

*applauds by the audience*



Day after.

Headlines:

"Bush wins debate while Kerry can't dish it"

"President makes Kerry nervous"

etc etc

[LeahMira]

21. You're right. :-(

Unfortunately, this will be a debate focused exclusively on fighting the threats from the terrorists. Bush sees his job as doing this and only this. I doubt he can even get his mind around anything but policing and soldiering.

[damnyankee2601]

31. Won't work.

Too many comedy shows have already put the public wise to this trick. Bush would look like an SNL skit.

That's not to say he won't try it. The colossal egos in the WH have severed all ties with reality. They believe their own propoganda now, and are acting like Hitler in the bunker moving non-existent divisions around on the map.

[Kamika]

32. hehe true

Well my post was not a realistic post, what I meant was that he will just bring up stuff like al quaida.. and the public will buy it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. I think you just scripted a This Modern World strip

I'm forwarding this message to Tom Tomorrow. :evilgrin:

[grannylib]

19. Not a chance; he couldn't even survive a debate with himself from 4 years

ago - he'd be arguing with himself over everything he said at the time and has done a 180 on since...

[Demonaut]

20. no "real" debates will happen, it'll be a staged and coordinated

by the repukes, attacks on Kerry will happen from sources outside bush's camp and bush will attempt to be above the negativity

[readmylips]

23. N. O. No debate invite from Kerry....

First, bury bushie in his lies until rove has to beg Kerry for a devate. The media is not on our side. A debate now will turn Kerry into a Dean, and we still have a long ways to November. The bushies have no plan for a debate, at all. Their crusadors are licking their chops, hoping to destroy Kerry this week. Just listen to media commentators, they are all stackedup against Kerry.

[InhaleToTheChief]

25. No debates?? Is that possible??

Is there any precedent for a Presidential race in which the two major candidates did *not* debate? Wouldn't that be a PR disaster for Bush (since Kerry will be spoiling for a debate big time)?

[dubae524]

27. debate?

I don't see how either candidate would refuse to debate. Sure Bush probably will end up losing, but they got damage control in place for that. It would be a greater disaster for the repubs, if Bush didn't debate.

[damnyankee2601]

28. It would be a greater disaster for the repubs, if Bush didn't debate.

Not necessarily. It could easily wind up like Nixon v. Kennedy in 1960.

And if Bush ducks it, Kerry can bring up cowardice and AWOL. We win either way.

[InhaleToTheChief]

29. Nixon/Kennedy had a lot to do...

...with it being the first televised debates. That stopped being a factor long ago, since we only pick photogenic goo-ole-boys like aw-shucks Georgey the simple Texas rancher.

I agree that they can't really just refuse to debate and still come out looking OK. I'm sure Rove feels like he can shape the aftermath of any debate to make Bush the winner. I think he's wrong.

[damnyankee2601]

34. I (mostly) concur.

I know that the Nixon disaster was primarily an appearance issue, but the metaphor goes deeper. You have an articulate underdog that the pundits say can't win going up against an arrogant right-wing idealogue who sucks at public speaking.

On the Karl Rove issue, I agree. Rove & Co. have taken leave of their senses. The gay marriage thing is a perfect example. They have no clue how pissed off people really are.

[SonofMass]

41. Who are the people in the picture?

.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. He's not much in a debate

He might do one with the questions handed out beforehand, but... even then he'd still have to make and answer rebuttals.

He might forgo the debates. Heck, he might even cancel the election.

[TrogL]

47. Dubya will use exactly the same debating tools he used last time

• accuse opponent of "debating tricks"
  
• answer a different question
  
• stick to his talking point scripts
  
• use his "down home, aw shucks" accent
  
• use his "all hat, no cattle" persona
  
• oversimplification of complex issues
  
• claim to have won the war on terrorism
  
• accuse opponent of unproveable things
  
• refuse to discuss specifics - call them "a bunch of numbers"
  
• lie through his teeth
  
• babble economic nonsense
  
• smirk
  

[kurtyboy]

48. Yep, there will be a debate.

According to several of the pundits in last night's primary coverage, there at least a couple coming (Larry King even had the location for one of them--Phoenix).

What I think the Bush team will attempt is exactly what they accomplished in the last selection. They'll make sure that high praise is lavished on Kerry's prowess in debating (as with Gore) and set the bar so low that mere survival by * will appear as a victory.

This strategy with Gore worked well on two counts--First, it accomplished the bar-seeting goal enumerated above, and second, Gore took measure of the press' reporting of him as "vicious" (Remember The Atlantic cover with Gore owning significant fangs?) and scaled back his aggresiveness. There would be no skewering moment like he'd shown Ross Perot on Larry King ("I brought you a photo of a couple of you're heroes, Mr. Smoot and Mr. Hawley.")

I think that Kerry can counter this by:
1). Getting a couple of stories into the press with the analysis I just made.
2). Painting * as a smart politician who only plays dumb to gain votes (not sure how to best implement this...)
3). Waiting for * to make the invitation to debate--the pressure will be there in the Fall, trust me. Kerry should just let the issue rest until the press brings it up, and then reply, "I'm ready whenever he is. I'm just waiting for his call." Of course the sticky part of this is that the GOP will try to make some unacceptable format stick---pre-written questions, inclusion of Nader (which I would welcome, BTW), inhospitable audience, etc.
4). When the debates finally happen, Kerry should, above all, be himself. Just pick the administration's policies apart while respecting GWB as a person who is not bad, only ideologically misguided. If he can outclass GWB by granting him respect (unlike the way GWB treated Gore, which was decidely closer to neutral thatn respectful) he will prevail in the minds of the public, while giving the pundits very little to focus upon beyond the rhetoric of the debate.

Will they debate? YES. Will Kerry win? PROBABLY. Will that matter in the General Election? LET US HOPE SO.

[blondeatlast]

51. Excellent ideas. From your lips (fingers?) to Kerry and his

handler's ears!

[struggle4progress]

49. What bush usually does

is not to care at all how he comes across. But he might be well-rested and well-prepped with sound-bites for a debate. And if the election is close, I might expect a wounded "why-do-you-treat-me-like-i-was-a-drunk-frat-boy" demeanor from bush, in the hopes that this will get a few votes. My personal view is that the votes from the drunk-driving bloc might have carried bush over the top last time.

[liberalcapitalist]

52. Could Kerry survive a debate with Nader?

Bring back Pat to take Bush to task... Let Nader and Kerry go toe-to-toe.. Kerry would certainly do better than W.