I'm racist, and it's all Charlise Theron's fault.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

So, when Charlise Theron accepted her Oscar, and gave her little line 'well, everyone is thanking New Zealand, so I'll thank my beloved homeland, South Africa' (I paraphrase), I must admit, I cringed. I always feel that way about white South Africans, especially Afrikaaners. Whenever I meet one, or I see them on TV, I just think the same thought 'and what did you do under Apartheid?'. It's racist, it's wrong, but I can't get over it. I grew up with the violence and loathing of South Africa on TV, in the papers, in people I knew (I knew quite a few South African ex-pats growing up), and I cannot differentiate between the entire white South African race, and the evil some of them perpetrated. I'm not fond of that, and they don't deserve it, but there you are, this is my truth. Anyone else in a similar boat?

[DenverDem]

1. Yep.

Too much history to ignore. Hard to say without knowing Charlise's personal story, but impossible to ignore the overwhelming history.

[jsw_81]

3. We have a rather racist history too

But does that mean that all Americans are racists?

[DenverDem]

6. Good point

Our history of institutionalized racism is more than a generation removed, however.

Hard to argue against American socialized racism though.

Pretty high percentage of American's are racist, so it wouldn't be a bad bet.

[JNelson6563]

2. She's kinda young, isn't she?

'and what did you do under Apartheid?'.

Get her diapers changed? Cut teeth? :shrug:

Julie

[Screaming Lord Byron]

4. That's what I mean, it's an irrational impulse.

[iverglas]

23. being much older than thou

... I had never bought a bottle of South African wine in my life -- when I came of drinking age at the very beginning of the 70s, the boycott was on, and it went on and on.

Then one day it was over, and it was a *good* thing to buy South African wine, solidarity with the new society and all.

And I went into an LCBO (that's the Liquor Control Board of Ontario), and I found the South African wines, and I tried to get my arm to lift my hand up to get one, and it just didn't wanna do it! Irrational impulses ...

I tended to meet good white South Africans in the old days -- them as had left for good reasons, like being in trouble with the gummint, although of course they still had the privileges that gave them the means to do it. 'Course, that was partly because I shared office space for a few years with International Defence and Aid for Southern Africa. But I met a few in Havana too, and here and there. And hey, I'd take them over the pompous obnoxious misogynist Bishop Tutu any day. (Sharing space with IDAFSA, I naturally went to see him speak when he was in town ... not knowing I was walking into a bigtime outcropping of religion. And then I could just feel his humiliation when he told us how he, a middle-aged black man, couldn't vote, but an 18-yr-old white girl could.)

And hey, it doesn't help that those folks have one of the most absolutely annoying accents going. Did you catch Margaret Somerville on some TV thing a week or so ago? "Founder of the McGill Centre for Medicine, Ethics and Law", and one of the most sophistic dishonest hypocrites I've ever had the displeasure of reading in the Globe and Mail. Sometimes our reflexes are necessary self-defence mechanisms!

.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

24. Yeah, the accent really doesn't help them, I'm afraid.

I always imagine people trying to be seductive with that harsh accent. That again, is a pretty racist thought, but I thought it.

[Submariner]

5. I just spent a month

on a work ship in the Arabian Gulf with an Afrikaaner onboard who was the medic. When he would bring up his comments about black people in S.A., I felt like I might as well be talking to some 1950s backwoods redneck in the U.S.

I can only assume the Afrikaaner hate of black folks must have been instilled in them as soon as they leave the womb. And what was amazing when he made his derogatory comments was that I assume he thinks most white folk think likes he does..........wrong!

[DenverDem]

9. Not unlike the American South

where socialized racism continues to be endemic.

If it quacks like a duck. . .

[Minstrel Boy]

7. True for me, too.

Irrational as hell, but there it is.

I'm sorry, Ms Theron, it's nothing you did.

[lapislzi]

8. I lived in South Africa for 10 years

operative word: "lived." Past tense. If they're here, they're not there. Although many left for opportunistic reasons, many more left because of the intolerable political climate. Many more stayed and tried to change things. Beware of painting with too broad a brush.

There was a very healthy underground movement that the South African press never reported on.

It was also dangerous to practice progressive politics. Many progressives were destroyed, or lived out their lives in exile in the UK.

I know nothing about Ms. Theron, but you can't automatically assume that everyone who comes from South Africa who has a white skin is a racist. That in itself smacks of racism.

It is also too complicated a situation, and too complicated a history to sum up in a few paragraphs. There are historical parallels with other plantation societies, but the apartheid system is peculiar to the brand of "ultra-reformed" Calvinism practiced by the Dutch colonials.

We can talk more if you want more background.

[SoCalDem]

11. She was born in 1975

and apartheid ended in 1993 IIRC, so she would have been a child durinig the remaining years.. As a child of Afrikaaners, she probably grew up in a home that supported apartheid, much as the civil war southerners supported slavery.. But she was in no position to DO anything about it.. She was born there, and her place of birth was not her choice..

It's more important how she feels NOW.. and how her family feels..

Here's a good website that details apartheid
http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hist.html

[Screaming Lord Byron]

13. That's what I mean, the point of my post is that I am wrong and irrational

I hope I made that clear.


On edit - I do know who Joe Slovo was, if that helps.

[Bad Thoughts]

10. Not racist at all

Is it racist to reflect on how certain groups have advantages because of their race? Apartheid was an institutional practice, and people like Theron ought to acknowledge that they owe their successes to that practice. And I would further point out Theron because she has misrepresented the realities of Boers in South Africa. My advice is that you should be critical--and self-critical.

[lapislzi]

19. White South Africans have much to answer for

myself included. I live with the shame of having benefitted from apartheid, even if I did not support the institution. I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for my crimes of omission.

I didn't do enough, even after the scales fell from my eyes.

[Robb]

12. It's a toughie

I knew white South Africans when I was going to school... the "advantage" I have now is they were both political activists working to end Apartheid. So I know what they were doing, so to speak. :)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. Commendable self-awareness on your part

You're willing to analyze your feelings from an "outside" perspective, under a rational light, and judge them. That's almost the exact opposite of bigotry. Congratulations.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

25. Thanks a lot.

[VOX]

15. Theron has publicly expressed shame for being South African...

It's difficult not to have a negative reflexive reaction about white South Africans who lived under Apartheid. However, Theron came to the U.S. when she was 16, and is on the record as being anti-Apartheid.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1285/5_31/74583321/p8/article.jhtml?term=
OUT OF AFRICA.(famous Africans speak about their continent)
Interview, May, 2001

CHARLIZE THERON, actress; Homeland: Benoni, South Africa. Resides: Los Angeles, California
interviewed by INGRID SISCHY
<snip>
IS: When you first came to America, apartheid was still the policy of the South African government. Did you have a sense of shame about being a South African?

CT: Yes. I think it's because of how people responded to my being South African. For a while, I wouldn't even bring up the fact that I was South African. It took me a couple years to get over that.

IS: When you were growing up, was there something inside you that said, "Wait, I'm living in a situation that's all wrong?"

CT: Yes. It's hard to believe anyone growing up there then wouldn't have had that reaction. But I'm sure a lot of that had to do with the awareness in my family. We lived on a farm and we had every nationality living there and working the land. All the workers' families lived there, so from the age of three I grew up with their kids. I was always surrounded by Zulus and South Sothos; apartheid was something that was always being discussed in my house.

As a kid I remember being extremely happy living in this little world on our farm where nobody was being abused and human rights were respected. It was only when I left, when I became a teenager and went to school in Johannesburg that I went, "Oh wow, people really think it's weird that black people live on our farm."

IS: Do you think one reason why your mother wanted you to have a life outside South Africa was because of the politics and the instability there?

CT: I think that was her primary reason...

<snip>

[Screaming Lord Byron]

18. Good for her.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

16. Just to point out, my title is ironic, obviously it isn't Theron's fault.

I'm sure you guys knew that, but I thought I'd better state it, just in case.

[MrPrax]

17. When I was into the Sanctions Movement

at university and a member of a SANTU-affliated group ...two things always struck me

1) black folks from South Africa themselves seems to have NO problems with the white folks from South Africa abroad

2) and the white folks gave me an invaluable insight into the paranoid state of the Africaanker mind set and showed that, regardless of your skin colour, repressive corportist regimes ultimately label everyone 'the enemy' and treat them as such...

[seabeyond]

20. moving to texas from california

southern texas bigoted religious. yup. and for a handful of years i yelled about their limited thinking and bigotry. then i started talking to self that just in this i was being bigoted, i was sittin in judgement. when i let that go, truly my whole world opened up. the last handful of years, though i can say get me out of here, still i can value and appreciate the lite they are. that is a healing for me. it does nothing for these texans all around. my feeling to them didnt do a thing to them. only me. but it does allow me to be in peace and harmony.

it is all about self. cannot change another, only self.

it is an understanding, knowledge these people that differ were merely conditioned different than i, their experiences in life different than mine. to see it isnt the base of the person, but the conditioning helps to be non attached to the conditioning.

actually with all the mess we are in right now and my position here, i may have started falling back into this anger so maybe this is a reminder for me to say enough again. thank you

[Bridget Burke]

21. No. She thanked "South Africa"

Not "all the white people in South Africa" or "all the Boers in South Africa". There's a link on this thread to her actual political thoughts, which pretty much absolves her.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

22. I guess you didn't get the meaning of my post.

My post isn't about Charlise Theron and her beliefs, it's about my perception of others.

[Bridget Burke]

26. You asked "anybody else in a similar boat"

My answer was No.

Your thoughts reminded me of the common statements about "all those Southerners" or "all those Texans."

Ignorance is so boring.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

27. Again, you misunderstand. I was condemning myself for racist thought.

Ignorance seems to work many ways, doesn't it?

[JI7]

31. not ignorance, this person is ACKNOWLEDGING

to having racist feelings and admitting they are wrong. that is not ignorance, that is being truthful and wanting to change. this is the first step in getting racist people to change. they have to admit they have racist feelings and that they are wrong.

[bicentennial_baby]

28. In the interest of full disclosure

You should know I'm 1/4 Boer...I hope you don't think any less of me.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

29. Nope. Must resist impulse to make Boer / bore pun.

[bicentennial_baby]

30. Hehe..heard it before!

Actually, it's part of my last name, Boersma, so I get a fair number of comments. :-)