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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:56 PM
Original message
Had an argument with my boss over Bush....
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 01:57 PM by dennis4868
My boss is a democrat but today he made me lose it (not my job thank the good Lord). He said that Bush has brought respect, dignity, and honor back to the White House. When he said that I just lost it. I started with the lies about the war in Iraq. Of course he never heard of PNAC and the Office of Special Plans. He said that Bush has shown strength in invading Iraq. WTF? Anyway, in the end he started to agree with me that perhaps Bush is not all that he thought he was. He is mad at Clinton about lieing under oath. Of course he never heard of the Arkansas Project. I said that lieing about a unneccesary war and having over 500 soldiers die and over 3000 soldiers have life changing injuries is a hell of alot worse than lieing about sex. I also mentioned outing a CIA agent is not exactly bringing dignity back to the WH. Like I said he started to agree with me, perhaps to get me off his back....who knows.

But the question I have for all of you is....how can a democrat think this way about Bush? My boss is a smart guy and one would think he would know better. Should I blame the media for not doing their job on uncovering the "real" George W Bush? How in the hell can anyone say with a straight face that Bush has brough dignity back to the White HGouse? WTF!
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. arkansas project
Can somebody give me a bit more detail on the Arkansas Project - I know it was funded by Scaife (how is that pronounced, anyhow? SKAFE, like rhymes with safe?)

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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. read this....
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ArmchairActivist Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Oodles and oodles of information in:
"The Hunting of a President" by Jim Conason and Gene Lyons. Pretty systematic unveiling of the entire counter-Clinton enterprise.

-AA
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Yes.
Rhymes with safe.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. But is it pronounced
SKAFE or SHAFE?
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Media is part to blame, however...
it's obvious he relies on the convenience of mainstream media too much.
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. psyops
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 02:01 PM by Insider
and it works. soldiers were working it at cnn years ago. news reporters trained by the cia. it works.

wait. allow me... :eyes:
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. He is obviously not as smart as you thought he was.
Ask him where he gets his news from. Fox, CBS, CNN... If his sources are limited to those I mentioned then thats all that he is absorbing.

"Bush has brought dignity back to the White House". Can somebody explain to me as to HOW?
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. "Bush has brought dignity back to the White House". Can somebody explain t
My boss says that after Bush we needed someone in the WH who is honest and who could bring dignity back to the WH. He says that Bush has done and showed great leadership in attacking Iraq....sometimes I wonder how people come up with their crazy thoughts and beliefs....it is scary.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. What kind of honesty has he exhibited?
I mean, seriously, where? In misleading the American people into believing there's some connection between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda? In misleading the American people about Iraq's threat to the United States? In continually obfusticating and outright lying about his military record? In refusing to take a required military physical because it required a drug test? In abandoning his sworn commitment to serve his country in the military? In lying outright about his friendship with the CEO of Enron? In trying to hide his connections and his Administration's connections with Halliburton, Arbusto, Harken?

I fail to see where there is honesty and dignity in this Administration. I truly do not see it.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree...
and when people say that Bush acted so wonderfully after 911 I just dont get it.....what did Bush do that other presidents would not have done? NOTHING. He attacked aphganistan like any other person in the WH would have done.....in fact he used Clinton's war plans for that war. He went to ground zero. Big shit....any prez would go down there for the publicity. And then he lied us into the war in Iraq. So what exactly did he do after 911 that was so great?
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just ask him one simple question
Does he know as much about Bush*'s history as he does Clinton's. Then ask why not? Mention Arbusto, Harken, Funeral-gate, AWOL, ETC. If he has never heard of any of those things then suggest he is not informed and maybe after becoming so he might change his opinion.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's collective stupidity.
Many in our society suffer from it. I have no other explanation. I'm not an expert nor have I ever played one on TV.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. You need to introduce him to DU.
That should take care of things.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. smart boss???
Don't confuse the ability to make money or run a business as being smart. It merely means he has a talent for doing so just as a plumber has the talent and knowledge to unplug sewer lines (and in most cases a plumber is a far more useful member of society). Smart and intelligence is the ability to think for yourself and research before placing foot in mouth.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. what scares me is....
that there are most likely many others out there who think like my boss and will vote for Bush in 2004 based on not being informed...
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. bush* brought back dignity to the WH if dignity means
lying and stuffing your pockets and getting people killed for no good god damned reason.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. If only...
... we could somehow get Bush under oath.

Honestly. A lie is a lie.

Some of these people can't see that a lie about an affair, while important to a spouse and family, is not the end of the world for a nation. A lie about a war very well could be.

Since these people only think lies of any significance really matter when they are spoken under oath, could we please ask Bush to take an oath, solemn, on the Bible, with all the trappings, and then ask him why he ordered an invasion of Iraq.

That seems to be what it would take to convince some people... even some people who themselves wouldn't think of lying under oath or not under oath. Wonder why they hold their pResident to a lower standard than they hold themselves?
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. That's why he will never testify under oath
Almost every word coming out of his mouth these days is a lie. He would be busted left and right.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. lieing to congress....
is equal to lieing under oath...he lied in his state of the union speeech and the letter/resolution he sent to congress asking them to give up their war powers to him. Plus, he misled congress all along with the intelligence = high crime and misdemeanor. John Dean's book should be out soon that will explain all of this.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. Bush DID lie under oath
Didn't he take an oath when he was sworn in as prez to uphold the Constitution? Here it is:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

He's a LIAR because he never had any intention of "preserving" or "protecting" anything but the wallets of his corporate overlords.
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. He is an informed member of society
He believes in "credible" news sources.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. There are plenty of Dems
who are just like your boss. People who would've said you were crazy if you told them about AWOL before the media stopped sitting on the story. And these people aren't stupid either. They just fail to see the wool that's been pulled over their eyes.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. and that scares me....
because those dems will most likely vote for the criminals in the WH. These dems are so uninformed about what is going on that they dont know how stupid they sound. I dont even know where to begin with these people. Are they a lost cause? How do you argure/talk about the issues with people who are uninformed? I never seem to get anywhere with them.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. The people of the nation are being constantly bombarded with propaganda
And they are always reminded just how afraid they should be, and in turn just how great Bush is.

The logic is, there are evildoers everywhere who want to kill you. If you haven't been killed yet, then it must be because Bush is protecting you.
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Indiana Democrat Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. Things are different since 9-11...
...I've seen it with my friends and family.

9-11 affected a lot of people in a lot of different ways.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. so basically....
the deaths of 3,000 people is the greatest thing that ever happened to Bush. Just disgusting!
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Indiana Democrat Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. No.
It's the worst thing that ever happened on American (Mainland) soil.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. I think anyone who knows anything about Gettysburg
is going to disagree with that.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. Found out my Boss is a Dem
After I wrote a scathing LTTE (outlining all the lies, deceit, scandals, etc of glorious leader) and he (amongst others at work) read it since it was printed in the Sunday paper. He confided to me is is the "2nd" dem working here (I am in the buckle of the bible belt) and since then we've had many great conversations about how terrible Bush* is. He totally agrees that the Clinton thing was total bullshit -- who cares about a blowjob?! Of course, others at work found out my liberal ways and occasionally send me offensive cartoons and emails like the "saddam letter". But I'll send them a Bush joke back immediately which usually squelches further political communications. Your boss doesn't sound to bright if he can't recognize that lying about a blowjob is not a serious thing in the grand scheme of things.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I agree....
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 03:43 PM by dennis4868
but like I said, my boss keeps saying, "well Clinton lied under oath and what do I tell my daughter about that. He disgreaced the office of the presidency." It's like I want to slap him and say, "what do I tell my kids when they ask me why over 500 of our soldiers are dead in Iraq and 3000 have life changing injuries and why is there a CIA agent on the run because she was outed and why does Bush keep lieing about his tax cuts creating all these jobs, etc.....?
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Dennis. Let me explain it too you. You won't like the answer.
For a lot of people, "family values", "moral values", and other such "values" words are code words for white supremacy. Bush has tapped into this mindset, the most impressive thing about him being a white boy with balls enough to attack and kill brown peoples, and be proud of it. A lot of people don't even realize the mindset is there. It's the something they can't put their finger on that gets translated into strong leader, decisive, good at war, "values" and all the other bullshit used as veneer.

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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I agree with much of what you said....
what strength is it to attack an armless country....takes no balls whatsoever....I hope there will be a day for people like my boss that will see the light and understand how much of a criminal that Bush and his thugs really are. I just don't know if that day will ever come. Myabe 20 years from now when the historians will have their turn to analyze Bush and his thugs. Maybe not.

I really blame the mainstreem media for all of this. Up until now they have refused to knock Bush down no matter what it was....they have sponsored his presidency and make him look like a strong leader. So when you have a person like my boss who does not do his homework and relies on the mainstreem media for his information it is obvious that he will have those opionion about Bush and Clinton....I know that I have to work real hard to find out what is "really" going on in Washington. Never in my life have I been so informed. I am proud of that!
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Don't worry. Change is inevitable. The policy of integration
made sure of that. It will take more time, but it IS inevitable. Some of us are just ahead of others.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. As to "lying under oath"
is that really relevant if the questions are things that should never have been asked? Does one have the right to obfusticate or even outright lie when asked personal questions whose answer is irrelevant to any but the parties concerned?

An example of this: your elderly auntie gives you a toilet-paper-roll cover she knitted in the shape of a doll with a long skirt. You think it is quite possibly the most hideous piece of kitsch you've ever laid eyes upon. In front of auntie, your mother says, "Oh, don't you just LOVE that?" Now, if one were asked that question under oath, would it still be necessary to insult auntie by responding with the absolute truth?

You may think that's a specious example. However, I regard asking someone about their private sex life as analogous to asking them - under oath - whether they pick their nose, or have hemorrhoids, or suffer erectile dysfunction. It's none of anyone else's business, save their family.

Lying under implicit oath (the oath sworn to uphold the Constitution) and causing the death of hundreds of American soldiers and thousands of innocent civilians based on those lies is a far more serious breach of ethics and honesty.
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damnyankee2601 Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
29. That IS weird.
Learning all the things you mention is what MADE me a Democrat. (I used to be a rabid moderate.) I don't see how anyone can be a Democrat WITHOUT knowing those things.

The only thing in the middle of the road is yellow stripes and dead armadillos.

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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. If "dignity" means losing the respect of nearly every nation on earth...
Then yes, * has done an outstanding job.

If "dignity" means blowing the sh** out of a small country (that had been under strict sanctions for more than a decade) on faked and trumped-up pretenses, then yes, * has done a terrific job.

If "dignity" means squandering the world's goodwill after 9/11 to advance an agenda of personal profit, then, yes, * has done that with flying colors.

If "dignity" means being unable to and unconcerned with communicating clearly and rationally, then, hell yes, * is *the* man!

The only thing this numbskull has done well is his PNAC masters' bidding, with a few florid displays of phoney public piousness thrown in as well.

Dignity???? Please, kiss my :dem: !!!!
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Right on my fellow DUer!
:bounce:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. You GO, Rezmutt!!!
:toast: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :toast:
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. The media's job is to sell a story...
Its our job to tell the truth.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
41. I hate the dignity and honor Bushshit.
Bush is the biggest liar and criminal ever to set foot in Washington, DC, let alone in the White House, let alone the Oval Office. What is dignified and honorable about that? Bush is the biggest political whore in the history of this country. What is dignified and honorable about that? Bush has killed more innocent people than Osama bin Laden. What is dignified and honorable about that? Bush has a bloodlust fed by the voices he hears to invade and conquer country after country, killing and maiming more. What is dignified and honorable about that? During the 2000 South Carolina republican primary Bush accused John McCain of having a "nigger daughter." What is dignified and honorable about that? For several months while in the Guard, no one, including Bush, knew where Bush was. What is dignified and honorable about that?

This may be the most dignified and honorable thing Bush has ever done.

Image
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I agree with you....
I only wish I told my boss all the things you just mentioned....Obviously my boss is not in touch with reality...he does not pay enough time to what is "really" going on in the WH like we do....my boss is exactly the type of person Karl Rove loves. Rove loves people who spend 10 minutes each night to the local and maybe national news and base their opinions on sound bites. Rove does not like people like us at DU where we look for the truth and take alot of our time from our day to know what is "really" going on with the Bush Crime Family.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
43. My boss "jokes" about politics constantly.
She claims to be liberal, but she swears that we'll all lose our jobs if we don't vote for Bush. She says it in a deliberately ambiguous way, so that we can't tell if she's trying to threaten us.

Anyway, it's very bad form to discuss politics at work, when one person has power over another.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. that sounds like harrassment to me....
....and if I were told that, I'd be taking a hike to Human Resources to report it. (Easy for me to say, I know.)

How, incidentally, does this woman think she's going to know who you vote for?
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rhino91063 Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. Right wing corperate media
It is not like Fox news posts that it is the republican news network. Then you have the republican shills like rush limbaugh spreading lies non stop. Then you listen to news radio and you hear Charles Osgood distort the facts. Not everyone gets the REAL story like we do. It is our job to educate those that have been deceived.

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