Is Voting * Out Enough? Will You Be Satisfied?

[matcom]

not me. voting this scum out is #1

THEN

i want to see these liars and criminals prosecuted, shamed, fined and jailed. this will not end when we win in November. i want investigations, inquiries and trials.

so my question:

Will YOU be satisfied with simply voting this fungus out of the WH or will you keep fighting for more?

[LTR]

1. I just want massive humiliation

That'll do enough to stifle the party for at least a decade, and enable them to get their act together and stop being so evil.

I don't advocate getting rid of tthe Republican Party. Great people have come out of the GOP over the years, and a multi-party system is, in reality, the only way things can work in America without either side going too far. Just bring back the GOP but without the facist neocon elements.

Seeking prosecution would be nice, in my twisted, perverted mind. But this is the equivalent of stirring up a hornets' nest, and it could backfire on the Dems if they're not careful. Watching these clowns leave DC with their heads hung in shame is good enough punishmnent for me.

[Bryan]

72. I tend to agree

It sucks, but there is so much to be done by a new Dem administration that a proper settling of accounts with Team Bush needs to be way down the priority list. Managing a pullout from Iraq that won't leave a complete power vacuum, discarding most if not all of the tax cuts, massaging economic stimulus through a hostile Republican Congress (I would not be surprised if we wind up having to shut down the government again; Tom Delay is going to be absolutely ripshit), trying to change the OHS into an apparatus that's actually useful in monitoring terrorism, mending fences with almost every nation on Earth-and this is just a partial list. If these issues and more besides are not handled well, we'll be so screwed that punishing the BFEE will be as moot an issue as whether the Indians deserve to get Manhattan Island back.

[Speed8098]

2. Voting * out should only be the beginning

I want to see an investigation followed by video of the whole regime being led out in chains. *, Rove, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, the whole damn lot.

I want to see a public trial, televised just like OJ.

It's the only way for the bushbots to see that they were being led around by a ring in their nose, plus, these liars need to be punished, and harshly.

It still amazes me that there are still people who support this monkey. I know ignorance is abound, but to support this criminal regime is criminal itself.

[Sugarbleus]

74. Okay, AFTER they are imprisoned I think

there will STILL be plenty of work to do. There's still the congress to deal with. We have to watch our local governments and how they wheel and deal too.

Neocons or the republicans conservative ideas will not suddenly go away. There will be battles up ahead no matter which dem gets voted in. We forget that we are still a nation divided ideologically and problems will not vanish simply because we win in '04. I'm actually worried about the election AFTER this one. Where will we be then. After this four year debacle with bushco and the 2000 election fiasco, I'm pretty freaked out with our system.

Eternal Vigilance

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. We should have impeached Reagan. And we should go through the

process with Bush. Failing to do so will only give the Republicans someone that they can use as a false prophet -- just like Reagan.

[banana republican]

64. which bush or is it both of them

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. NO! I want to see him and his evil cabal on trial in the Haige!

[librechik]

21. In Jail or in the Grave n/t

[LeahMira]

5. Not enough...

Will YOU be satisfied with simply voting this fungus out of the WH or will you keep fighting for more?

I want to see a strong Democratic majority in the Senate and House also.

I would hope that the first priority would be to get the country out of the mess it's in economically and overseas. As that happens, the truth will come out, more people will be forced to take a hard look at it, and I hope that the cloak of secrecy will come off.

Fines and jail terms would be most appropriate, but I think that the most important thing is to expose these scoundrels, connect the dots to show how they have used and manipulated the "true believers," and to make sure that appropriate steps are taken so it never can happen again.

[gulliver]

20. "Democratic majority in the Senate and House also."

That's what I would like to see too.

[Kanary]

36. REAL Dems, not Bush-lites

Just having in office someone who is Dem in name only accomplishes nothing. WE've gone to the right for so many years now that there's a lot of confusion about what the DEmocratic party actually stands for.

It's time for some clarity, and redefinition, and the courage and will to follow through.

Otherwise, it's just wasted effort.

Kanary

[amandabeech]

59. And in governor's mansions and state legislatures, too

These are incredibly important positions.

Don't forget that in most cases state legislatures draw up congressional districts: witness what happened in Texas!


Amanda

[patricia92243]

6. I want CHANGE for America. I believe Howard Dean will bring that change.

I don't know - or really care - about what happens to Bush after he is GONE.

[NashVegas]

7. Shhhhhhh ... You'll Get the Thread Kicked Over to the Nasty Place

!

[blondeatlast]

18. Wrong forum; and WTF is "change." anyway?

Please don't get this thread sent to the pit!

[Selwynn]

24. Why do you believe that?

I currently support no candidate.

Dean's record is that of an insider moderate, dare I say conservative democrat. It speaks for itself. Any claim to being an outsider liberal just doesn't even remotely jive with his record in Vermont. What kind of change is he bringing?

This is the number one reason why I was never able to get on the Dean wagon. Before there was talk of his "personality" and before his many gaffs, I was intrigued. Then I took a look at his record, saw how it completely failed to match up to his rhetoric and didn't give him another thought.

[Q]

8. The 'rule of law' will never be able to touch the Bushies...

...once they are out of office. It's a fact backed up by historical precedent.

[blondeatlast]

17. Sad but true; that's why we need to focus on Congress and the SOTU.

[NashVegas]

9. No Satisfied Matcom

These jokers waited around 8 long years for their chance.

Condi needs be prosecuted for lying to congress.
Cheney needs be prosecuted for lying to congress.
Rummy, etc., etc.

And then we need to take a good, long look at the roles, power, and other aspects of our non-elected, non-voter-accountable bosses and figure out what to do with those offices to make them accountable.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. No. A democratic majority in either or both houses of Congress too.

*'s prospects are up to the courts.

[blondeatlast]

16. Yup, and some Constitution friendly SOTUS justices.

[Lone_Wolf]

11. I won't be satisfied with anything less than

the ghouls being brought charged with war crimes.

[roughsatori]

12. I'm a "wacky-leftist" who protested whenever Clinton came to town

So obviously, just having "a Democrat" in office will not be enough for me. I loved when people were so angry at Bush* that many started calling for fundamental change in our country. Now it seems to be more of a centrist, status quo Dem thing in the air that will have me holding my nose and going to the polls.

[Kanary]

37. You're quite right. We just don't seem to learn.

A wishy-washy Dem changes nothing.

CHANGE is needed. BIG CHANGE.

Kanary

[Hippo_Tron]

61. I'm sorry but a wishy-washy dem is not half as bad as Bush...

Even though they might not make big changes for the better at least they won't fuck everything up like Bush did.

[buddhamama]

13. voting * and team out is not enough

investigations and criminal charges are a good start; however, the illiegal war is only one issue that needs to be addressed.

we have regressed as a Nation.
now is the time to halt the destructive policies of this Administration and move forward.

[acmavm]

14. No, it most certainly will not. I want to see the whole bunch brought

up on charges, I don't give a damn where. If it's the Hague for war crimes, fine. If it's in this country on charges of lying to the public, manipulating the intelligence that led us into a war, for fraud and theft of the treasury, for subversion, for treason, for jaywalking, I don't care. These are the people who killed 500+ Americans for oil, these are the people who caused thousands more to be seriously wounded both physically and psychologically to the point where their lives will never be the same. These are the people who destroyed the educational system in our country. These are the people who walked all over the Constitution of the United State and took away the right of free speech, protest, and the guarantee of freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. These are the people who allow the police and federal agents to assault and jail innocent Americans for speaking their minds. These are the people who have saddled my children, my grandchildren, and generations to come with a debt that will cripple this country. These are the people responsible for giving money (can we say tax breaks boys and girls) to the richest citizens of this country while destroying all the support systems in place to help the weakest, the poorest, the elderly.

Included in this administration itself are some of the most criminally insane psychopaths that ever walked the earth. Cheney, who pushed for this war to enrich Halliburton, Asscroft who pushes for mandatory sentences for everyone else, but is not above committing a little 'campaign fraud' himself. Perle, who has made money left and right on everything from his consulting business to ownership in companies who are profiting from this war.

That being said, does anyone seriously think that these people should be allowed to walk away from the destruction and chaos unscathed. If you do, you haven't been paying attention. And if it happens, what a terrible precedent it will set.

And if I've made any grammatical or spelling errors in this little rant, I don't care. This thread pissed me off.

[blondeatlast]

15. No, but I have a different take. We need to win back the Senate and

the House to reverse the the mess the administration and its bootlickers in Congress, the Cabinet, and the Supreme Court have gotten us into.

First, we need to take the drape of of Justice (that's when I really lost it), then:

As much as I'd like to see the criminals up against the wall, I think we need to focus on healing the wholesale gang-bang the Pubics wreaked on our America. That's going to take a tremendous amount of energy and resources.

[BiggJawn]

19. Gallows on the Capitol steps.

Trials would be a good start. These Neo-Cons and their lapdogs should pay the highest price for their greed and crimes.

[FlaGranny]

22. While I am not revenge minded, and I don't personally need

to see any of these creeps in jail, I feel we do need to prosecute every single one of them and every one of their enablers and bring them all out into the open and then to jail if they are convicted. My main focus is prevention - never letting the neocon mafioso get the upper hand again. The best way to do that is to expose everything they've done, every stinking little dirty deal they've made in their attempt to take over the country and the world.

[Selwynn]

23. YES - I will not let * detract me from focusing on our real issues....

...one second longer than I have to. If you, in your outrage and bitterness want to keep focusing on the bush administration after they are voted out, that is your choice. But this country had deep and serious problems long before Bush took office, and they are problems that are growing more serious every year. Real, deep and piercing radical change is desperately needed in this country before we completely lose all vestiges of the American dream.

There are too many far more important fights for me to fight than to obsess about Bush after he's gone. I don't intend to spent on more second of attention on him than I have to.

[Sterling]

55. Bushes never just go away.

If you think that we can let them off the hook and just go about our bussiness then you are sadly mistaken. That is what got us here in the first place. We could have had these creeps in jail years ago.

Yes this thread pisses me off too.

[Selwynn]

68. I don't believe it is the most important fight -

- and I can't fight everything. That's really all I'm saying. Though I do appreciate that we cannot just take a naive kind of mindset that assumes if the Bush administration is removed from office they will just quietly fade into the background and never be heard from again.

[ldf]

25. bush, and his entire entourage

need to end up in jail.

THEN:

take back the house and senate,

get rid of that damn rule that makes corporations a "person",and then

outlaw their lobbyists,

drag every single ceo of every single media conglomerate before congress and demand an explanation why they have refused to use the "public airwaves" to inform, and for the benefit of, the public,

THEN drag their asses off to jail,

make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that there is absolutely no place for one's personal religious beliefs encoded in laws. either we address all religios, or none of them. that should re-establish the separation of church and state.

that would do for a start.

edit for spelling and clarity

[Beam Me Up]

38. the above just about says it for me n/t

But I'd say, "jail" is too good for these fuckers. The Gallows and GITMO would be more appropriate as THEY and their WHORE MEDIA are the REAL terrorists.

[mike_c]

26. I live to see them all do the prep walk on national TV...

...and then be hustled off the The Hague with hoods over their heads.

[bvar22]

27. Full prosecution where crimes were committed.

A STAKE driven through heart of the NeoCon doctrine.

a progressive reform in government that includes:

1) Instant runoff or proportional representation,

2) Publicly subsidized elections

3) Criminalization with severe penalties for Corporate lobbying

4) Return to the Fairness Doctrine

5) Public Ownership of Utilities and Transportation

6) Universal Education & Healthcare

7) Repeal of Patriot Act

8) Legislation to ensure TRANSPARENCY in Government

9) Severe Penalties and absolute prosecution for White Collar criminals and abuse of public trust!

10) Reregulation and strengthened oversight of Corporations

11) Universal Labor Unions

12) Repeal of NAFTA et al, and criminalization of ALL other Supranational shadow governments! Bilateral trade agreements prioritizing Human Rights and Environmental Protections.

13) Ironclad legislation limiting size and market share of large corporations (TRUST BUSTING). Legislation that supports and greatly favors small business with individual ownership and fair competition.

14) Priority for Alternative Energy.

I will be satisfied and take a rest when the above has been accomplished!

[drdigi420]

35. you left out

the #1 priority:

END THE WAR ON DRUGS!

It affects EVERY issue, form environment to civil rights, to taxes, to education.

As long as the war on drugs continues, the bush doctrine of perpetual war continues.

[Silverhair]

28. It has to be enough.

If Bush is hounded after leaving office, the precedent will be set for them to do the same to some Democrat someday. Remember that neither side retains power forever. It swings back and forth, and the winners have always allowed the losers to retreat. To break that tradition will mean that they will one day want revenge and pursue it too.

Victory does not require revenge.

[waywest]

33. I would not be satisfied with sending * to retirement...

And a seat on the Carlyle Corp board to become a future string puller.
I'd rather he be behind bars.

[Silverhair]

41. What you emotionally desire, and what is wise, are two different things.

[Sterling]

57. It is wise to let criminals go free?

Please explain why it is unwise to prosecute in this case? Please oh please.

[Silverhair]

77. Revenge is poor politics.

That should be obvious. And yes, sometimes it is wiser to let a criminal go free.

One of the principles of a democracy is that the losers of an election are allowed to leave in peace. If you prosecute, then you will start a round of prosecutions. Remember, sooner or later, your side will lose an election. And then the other side will prosecute your side. And yes, there will be things that they will be able to find to prosecute for. No side is ever as pure as fresh snow. So losing an election will come to mean jail for the losing side. So they will have much greater incentive not to lose, even if it means establishing a genuine dictatorship.

Please spare me the overblown rhetoric about us already being a dictatorship, as we are not and you know it too. That is just stupid posturing.

Revenge is emotionally immature. The anger and hatred that push for revenge also cause a person to act stupidly.

[Minstrel Boy]

63. "Victory does not require revenge."

Victory requires justice.

Revenge has nothing to do with it. To believe it does suggests you think nothing but irrational hatred would drive the "hounding" of Bush.

There has never been a more criminal, venal and traitorous administration in American history. Dislodging it from office cannot be enough, or they'll be back. (And remember, many of Bush's crew earned their stripes in Iran/Contra and earlier high crimes for which they never paid.)

[Silverhair]

78. Do really believe that the Democrats will NEVER lose another election?

Because if you do continue to go after Bush after he is out of office, the the next Rep administration, (Yes, there will be one, sooner or later.) will then go after the losing Democrats. Are you ready for losing an election to mean jail for the losers? That will be the result of what you are demanding.

Everybody that wants revenge always says that they want justice.

[hlthe2b]

29. At a minimum, voted out AND the truth gets out VERY PUBLICALLY

in excruciating (and well documented) detail.

I'd like criminal prosecution for those who broke the law, but I won't hold my breath....

Most important, I want the role the media had, in propagating all Bush's lies to be exposed. I want a return to the "FAIRNESS DOCTRINE."

[jmowreader]

62. Every one of them broke the law!

They're traitors, plain and simple.

Treason during wartime is a capital crime.

I know Bush started the war for no good reason, but that's beside the point. He gave aid and comfort to our enemies. He sacrificed the security of our nation to enrich his friends.

A gallows on the White House lawn would be good. One with three hanging positions, so all of the condemned criminals can stand there and watch their friends be hanged.

And do it on a worldwide television broadcast.

[leesa]

30. No. I want a trial for treason.

The dead Afghans, Iraqis and coalition forces demand it.

[Skittles]

31. NO

I deeply despair at the state of my beloved America when

1) a deeply incompetent, unqualified man is propped up to run as a candidate for president of the United States

2) the people surrounding that puppet can enlist the aid of the Supreme Court to successfully steal the election

3) the American people not only allow the theft of democracy, they allow that same illegitimate piece of SHIT to thieve the country BLIND and invade Iraq based on LIES and send our soldiers to die for NOTHING.

We need to get back on the right track; a Democratic win of course will help but it won't be a magic wand.

[starroute]

32. After the Republicans, we need to work on the Democrats

The Democrats may not be as corrupt as the Republicans, but they're still far too much in the pockets of special interests to do what is right for the country. They may not be led by fascists and fundamentalist know-nothings, but they're still inclined to fall apart in the face of anyone who waves the flag in their faces. They're still the party of NAFTA and welfare reform and intellectual property rights.

In many ways, it's only my overwhelming, visceral fear of the Republicans that has kept me voting for Democrats for the last 35 years. Throughout that period, things have steadily gotten worse for ordinary Americans. The only difference is that with Republicans in power, they get worse much faster.

So, yes, I'd like to see the Republican Party smashed down and then put back together in the image of the sort of honorable Republican office-holders we had in New York when I was a kid. But as soon as we can feel safe again, I'd like to see the Democratic Party smashed down as well and remade as something closer to my heart's desire.

[greatauntoftriplets]

44. Agree, the Democratic party must become more progressive.

This country needs real change. Too many elected Democratic officials are enablish * and his right-wing neocon vision of America.

[Sterling]

58. I think that may be the wrong order.

I wish it were not so but unless our house is in order we can't fix theirs.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. Certainly not BUT

It is the first and most necessary step. Nothing else meaningful can really happen without this.

[never cry wolf]

39. Absolutely NOT!!

EVERYTHING must be brought out into the open so that even the freepers are pissed and demand true reform, throwing open to the world's eyes everything that has been done so that it will cause a sea change, an epiphany of sorts to all those who have been so blind.

I have wet dreams about the kabal being frog marched into gitmo.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Voting him out is just the start

They need to go on trial and we need to reverse all the policies he made. Then we need to reform the election system.

[Pegleg Thd]

43. My hope is to

live long enough to see bush, chaney and everyone of their cronies including the slime court 5 dancing at the end of a rope necktie. This includes frist, hassert, inhofe, and delay.

[benburch]

42. Amen Matcom!!!

And we at The White Rose Society intend to push for prosecution of all of these seditious traitors.

Other Liberals and Progressives can forgive and forget, if they choose. We will remember and be a thorn in their sides for the rest of their miserable lives.

-Ben Burch
White Rose Society Webmaster
http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

[mithnanthy]

46. Would the points on the Statue Of Liberty...

....make an appropriate gallows?

[benburch]

49. NO!

I don't want anybody executed. I just want them stripped of their vast riches and imprisoned in spare but clean conditions for the rest of their unnatural lives.

[Eroshan]

45. when 90 percent

of the right wing media whores are gone and the congress returns to a neutral position, then we may be on our way to unity again.

[proud patriot]

47. voting * out , is just step 1 n/t

[x-g.o.p.er]

48. Tit for tat revenge will make things worse

I am beginning to understand the level of contempt that most people have for Bush. But let's say we win a majority in both houses and the WH, with whoever the nominee is. I have absolutely no problem with congressional hearings to get to the bottom of Enron or the 9/11 intelligence failure. But at some point, we need to quit this political bashing that has gotten us to where we are today. I seriously doubt if Bush, Cheney, et al were brought to trial, it would result in a conviction, just based on "reasonable doubt." And an impeachment of Bush would politically damage Democrats, just as it did Republicans when they went after Clinton. It would hurt us in our ability to move forward with our new-found mandate. Whatever political capital built up during the election would be pissed right down our leg.

Yes, Bush has been a divider, not a uniter. And I know there are folks that can't wait to see him impeached over anything as a means of exacting revenge for what happened to Clinton. Was what happened to Clinton justified? No. Was what Clinton do a good thing? No. Morally wrong, yeah. But what consenting adults do is their own business, even if it's the president in the WH. And it shouldn't have been impeachable.

For the good of the country, we need to set a new course with civil discourse, and let the hate go. Does that mean cave-in just to get along? Absolutely not. But reasoned articulation and a moral clarity of vision is what is needed for our country, not revenge politics. It will only harden people and entrench them in what they think is right, and when they regain power, the cycle will continue. And like now, nothing will get done.

For the good of the Republic, ABB in'04!

[Silverhair]

50. Very well reasoned, and entirely correct. n/t

[Selwynn]

69. Excellent rebuttal! :/

[TrogL]

51. You need to regain control of the Senate and House

otherwise having a Democratic President is pretty much useless.

[susu369]

52. Fungus, hell, we're talking fungi

a huge criminal cabal with tenacles that run back decades (BFEE & Co).

Neither do I believe we are speaking of "revenge" but just punishment for crimes.

[Pithlet]

53. I would like to see more happen

but I will be very relieved when * gets the boot.

[mandyky]

54. Getting shrub out IS #1

but I am not so much into trying to prosecute, unless the election efforts of the Dems fail. What I want is similar to the Dean movement - All politicians, no matter what party, need to remember they work for the people not for lobbyists, corporations, etc.

[Buns_of_Fire]

56. More, more, I'm still not satisfied

I want boosh* and his compadres publicly humiliated.
I want to see the neocons squashed squishy and the real Republicans in charge of their party again.
I want to see the religious right exposed that they're neither "religious" nor "right."

But, first things first. Getting rid of boosh* (the pilonidal cyst on the body politic) is Priority One.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. It's enough for me

Making sure the shittiest president in US history is not a two term president is the only thing that matters in my opinion.

[banana republican]

Bush can't get a "fair trial"

in the US. given the fact the S* went fishing(or whatever) with C*

the SCROTUS is too biased to give a fair judgement...

Therefore b* ought to be tried in the hague; it is the only place he can get a fair trial......

[9215]

70. Please delete

[banana republican]

65. Bush can't get a "fair trial"

in the US. given the fact the S* went fishing(or whatever) with C*

the SCROTUS is too biased to give a fair judgement...

Therefore b* ought to be tried in the hague; it is the only place he can get a fair trial......

[Kimber Scott]

66. We need to vote a party ticket

and get as many Republicans out of Washington as we can. Sending the killers and liars to jail would be nice, too, but I won't hold my breath.

[Wapsie B]

67. I want to drive a stake

through the heart of the neocon movement in this country. That's my ultimate wish. Or at least watch as they destroy themselves.

[9215]

71. THE BFEE MUST BE DESTROYED!! N/T

[hyphenate]

73. It's going to be a rough ride

For the next few years. Pukes will come out of the woodwork to taunt the new President, calling whoever is elected every name in the book, and they might try a Darrell Issa to recall the truly elected candidate. There will be YEARS of repercussions brought on by the massive right wing, and it's going to be a true HELL for whoever gets the position. Just straightening out the three branches of the government is going to be an enduring process, fraught with perils and deceptions, many of which are not going to be obvious for years to come.

Prosecuting the chief architects of the right wing we are seeing now will be unlikely. The Democrats are far more reasonable people, and the first sign of a "united" government is going to be the liberals giving pardons to a lot of these assholes. It's going to show, however, that WE are above their pettiness--that WE are truly the party of the people, and that WE are the forgivers and not the instigators.

Other countries, however, might take umbrage at the possibility of people like Cheney managing to weasel his way out of getting the punishments he truly deserves, so perhaps the U.N. will come forward and claim their right to put him on trial. Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice, Ashcroft and Rove will stay around, be the catalysts for new schemes and new means of subterfuge. But they will never again hold their arrogance as upfront and blatantly as they do now.

Some of us will be outraged at this, but remember--we're the party that believes in everyone's right of free speech, and we are the party that truly cares about the people in this country. The so-called "uniter" of the GOP will finally be seen for the dirty tricks, the lying, the conniving, the pandering he has committed for the past three+ years, and people will (hopefully) get the message that the Bush dynasty is a fraud and a cheat, and has no true desire to help out those who really need our help. The Bush dynasty will, hopefully never be trusted again to hold power at that level, though we might need to watch out for Jeb in the near future.

The state of Texas might simmer and stew about their sudden loss of power, but there are enough progressives and liberals that we might be able to regain influence and power there--we can only hope.

As for me, I am saddened that we do not have a center square where these traitors to America can suffer public humiliation, be seen for the blasphemous slime that they really are, but to forgive them, as a party, we will show how we truly are superior to every one of THEM, by turning the other cheek--something they could never do.

[Karenina]

75. Be sure your seatbelts are securely fastened.

Thanx for this thread, Matcom! :toast:

JOB ONE is stripping the *dauphin of his "title," which all by itself is gonna take an amazing coalescence of recognition and will. Anyone naive enough to think the *puppetmeisters will let an "election" get in their way needs a serious edjumacation today. It could get real ugly, real quick.

As far prosecution goes, revenge has NOTHING to do with it. Y'all seem to think it's only about YOU!!! The slimebuckets *dimwit fronts for, claiming to represent you, have committed atrocious crimes globally and must be held accountable to the 'rule of law.' But first, the *sockpuppet's gotta go.

YES TO ALL Y'ALL ABOVE!!! :toast: :toast: :toast:

Hyphenate, your first paragraph is spot on, but don't you think just a few heads need to roll? I find nothing noble in being "reasonable" with *criminals responsible for death and destruction on a global scale.

What YOU said, Acmavm! :toast: I want assets stripped to make restitution for the brazen theft.

Bvar22, you got revocation of corporate "personhood" covered under #10?
:toast:

[hyphenate]

76. Yeah

>>>>>>>>Hyphenate, your first paragraph is spot on, but don't you think just a few heads need to roll? I find nothing noble in being "reasonable" with *criminals responsible for death and destruction on a global scale.<<<<<<<<<<<

In the perfect world, I would LOVE to see Cheney and Ashcroft especially, and Feith, Wolfowitz and Perle get their due. And, of course, my personal vengeance against Dubya will be to show the world what a true failure he really is. However, I tihnk that personal feelings must be put aside if we are to convince the rest of the country--really, the world--that we, Democrats, are far superior to the trash that has been occupying the white house. We must show the world "compassion" (even if we're ready to puke while we're doing it!) toward our "enemies" because later on, when they start resurrecting their dirty tricks to oust our candidate in 2008, the people will remember it was the Democrats who were moral and compassionate. It's not a matter of how much we want revenge--there is still a minority of people in this country who will always be republican, and we must keep that in mind when we are in a position of authority. Keeping the civil rights of our "enemies" in mind shows we are far more even-handed than they are, and shows we are the only one of the two that keeps the rights of the populace in mind when we govern. That alone, with the motto "Never again!" should keep the rancid right from using their usual dirty tricks to wear us down.

It's not a pretty way to do it, but 4 years is going to be a drop in the bucket in the history of America. We all saw how much Bill Clinton was a target, and how his presidency, though completely legitimate, was hounded by allegations and nastiness. I know on an emotional level that they (repukes) should PAY for their insolence, but the media is too strongly biased in their direction, and regardless of how squeaky clean we hope to be, there will always be a conservative who will take a measure of us and make it an unkind one. Most people are too gullible and lack political sophistication when it comes to the truth and lies, and will side with whatever form of media they use to get their daily updates. If the mainstream media stays the way it has been, the people of the world will continue to see that conservative slant, regardless of what party is in the white house, congress and sitting on the Supreme Court. Greater measures should be taken, once we are back in office, to promote independent media with loyalty to no one except their ideals, which is the way it's supposed to be. And we have enough knaves in our own party that will ultimately show their true colors, and convince the weary populace that Democrats are as bad as repukes.

I have hated that trash since long before the 2000 election, and have so much of it in me right now, but to inflict our vengeance on the "enemy" will only backfire on us, and give the pukes martyr status, even if WE know they deserve every single iota we could give them of punishment.

[IrateCitizen]

79. I will continue to fight for a truly progressive future

Voting out the current den of thieves is the first thing on the agenda, but I wouldn't even call it a step. I'd call it the equivalent of lifting the foot off the ground on the way to taking that first step.

The worst thing we can do is to repeat the mistakes of the Clinton years, and assume that everything will suddenly be OK with a Democrat in the WH. We need to not only keep the heat on, but turn it up even MORE at that time.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. Definitely more

It won't happen with any of the "socially acceptable" candidates, but I'd like to see a reversal of the Reagan revolution. I'd like to see Democrats being as bold as Republicans for the first time in 40 years.

To accomplish anything at all, we need a Democratic Congress, and this is not a goal we should give up on. I hope that the DUers whose candidates are NOT nominated (and only one can have the top spot) will turn their energies to local Congressional campaigns and sneak some nice progressive Dems into the House and Senate while the Republicans are preoccupied with the presidential race.