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The End of the World as We Know Them (US ascendancy could collapse

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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 07:55 PM
Original message
The End of the World as We Know Them (US ascendancy could collapse
Edited on Sun Jan-02-05 10:04 AM by Skinner
By JARED DIAMOND

<SNIP> with the United States seemingly at the height of its power and at the start of a new presidential term, Americans are increasingly concerned and divided about where we are going. How long can America remain ascendant? Where will we stand 10 years from now, or even next year? <SNIP> History warns us that when once-powerful societies collapse, they tend to do so quickly and unexpectedly. That shouldn't come as much of a surprise: peak power usually means peak population, peak needs, and hence peak vulnerability. What can be learned from history that could help us avoid joining the ranks of those who declined swiftly? <SNIP>

When it comes to historical collapses, five groups of interacting factors have been especially important: the damage that people have inflicted on their environment; climate change; enemies; changes in friendly trading partners; and the society's political, economic and social responses to these shifts. <SNIP -- see original article for historical examples> What lessons can we draw from history? (FIRST): take environmental problems seriously. They destroyed societies in the past, and they are even more likely to do so now. If 6,000 Polynesians with stone tools were able to destroy Mangareva Island, consider what six billion people with metal tools and bulldozers are doing today. <SNIP>

Other lessons involve failures of group decision-making. There are many reasons why past societies made bad decisions, and thereby failed to solve or even to perceive the problems that would eventually destroy them. One reason involves conflicts of interest, whereby one group within a society (for instance, the pig farmers who caused the worst erosion in medieval Greenland and Iceland) profit by practices that damage the rest of society. Another is the pursuit of short-term gains at the expense of long-term survival, as when fishermen overfish the stocks on which their livelihoods ultimately depend. <SNIP> A society contains a built-in blueprint for failure if the elite insulates itself from the consequences of its actions. That's why Maya kings, Norse Greenlanders and Easter Island chiefs made choices that eventually undermined their societies. They themselves did not begin to feel deprived until they had irreversibly destroyed their landscape.

Could this happen in the United States? It's a thought that often occurs to me here in Los Angeles, when I drive by gated communities, guarded by private security patrols, and filled with people who drink bottled water, depend on private pensions, and send their children to private schools. By doing these things, they lose the motivation to support the police force, the municipal water supply, Social Security and public schools. If conditions deteriorate too much for poorer people, gates will not keep the rioters out. Rioters eventually burned the palaces of Maya kings and tore down the statues of Easter Island chiefs; they have also already threatened wealthy districts in Los Angeles twice in recent decades. <SNIP>

The other deep lesson involves a willingness to re-examine long-held core values, when conditions change and those values no longer make sense. <SNIP> Historically, we viewed the United States as a land of unlimited plenty, and so we practiced unrestrained consumerism, but that's no longer viable in a world of finite resources. <SNIP> In recent years, we have responded to foreign threats largely by seeking short-term military solutions at the last minute. But how long can we keep this up? Though we are the richest nation on earth, there's simply no way we can afford (or muster the troops) to intervene in dozens of countries <SNIP> - particularly when each intervention these days can cost more than $100 billion and require more than 100,000 troops. <SNIP>

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

More at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/01/opinion/01diamond.html?pagewanted=all
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jared Diamond's books are amazing
loved "guns, germs and steel", but thought "the third chimpanzee" was rather depressing. No, I don't think that we have the political will to face up to overpopulation and environmental collapse. BushCo want's to speed it along to make way for the rapture, after all. :eyes:
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-04-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. I have "Guns Germs and Steel" sitting on my bedside table.
I'm going to start it tonight. I finished Jane Jacobs "Dark Age Ahead" a few weeks ago and highly recommend it. The two books should make nice companion reads.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Please only post 4-5 paragraphs per DU rules.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. All the seeds of collapse are rapidly being sown and what sown is
usually reaped, be it environmental, economical, fiscal, geopolitical, or whatever be the seeds of destruction being sown.
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Blower Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. There will be some problems in the first quarter '05

See

www.libertywhistle.us

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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. What has been unleashed in four years will likely bedevil this nation on
all fronts for generations to come, but inexplicably we the people clamored for four more years, four more years so the neocons' remaining jobs could be initiated if not finished.
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think the US is already in decline
and, except for the dotcom blip in the 90s, has been for decades. The reality is that neither side really survived the cold war. The USSR went completely bankrupt but the US had to divert tremendous funds away from health, infrastructure, education etc..in other words the things that originally fueled the US ascendancy. China, India and the EU are acending, the US is going the other way.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I agree with you. I certainly don't see us in any kind of ascendency.
Edited on Sun Jan-02-05 12:23 AM by proudbluestater
For one thing, democracies are unable to survive when the gap between the rich and poor is as great as it is now.

I guess the writer and I have different viewpoints. I would say we've been on the decline since 2001. Our dollar has lost 1/3 of its value since Bush took office. Our deficit is unprecedented. Our miliary is stretched thin fighting unnecessary wars, and only the rich people who don't need it are seeing tax cuts.

I certainly wouldn't put the blame on those who ARE rich and live in gated communites, how they won't care about supporting their police and social security. I think it ALL flows from the top down. If the government shows disdain for its poor, how do you blame the rest of the citizens for following suit? The example MUST be set from the top.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's all about leadership.
The guy at the front needs to know what he's doing. For example, when I board a plane I like to think that the pilot is qualified, not just that he's a regular guy who I'd like to have a beer with.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I agree with you.
Problems will come no matter what. If you have good leadership then the problems can be worked on together and solved for the benefit of all or the consequences lessened.

However, this country now has incompetent, greed-driven, selfish leadership. Nothing will be done to solve these upcoming problems.

I think we will fall hard. However, I look on the bright side too. I think all of the European Nations evolved into much better societies after losing their empires and giving up their dreams of world domination. Maybe the same thing can happen here.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-04-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. America is in decline
and thanks to Bush, our imperial army will be decimated in the Iraq quagmire and will no longer be able to protect Wall Street's interests across the globe.

In the end, Jews will get blamed for the Iraq debacle. It is so easy to scapegoat the Jews rather than place the blame on the real culprits of this horrible war: the PNAC neocons and their allies among the neolibs of DLC/PPI. If this scenario sounds a lot like the finger pointing that took place in Germany on the aftermath of World War I, you are right. The Germans blamed the Jews and the Communists for their woes, instead of blaming the Kaiser and the military for their military adventures.

I am very pessimistic about the future!
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NurseLefty Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-01-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sharing this article with friends.
I think that Jared Diamond is one of the Great Minds of our time. I've yet to read "Guns, Germs, and Steel", but I read "The Third Chimpanzee" and wrote a paper on it. Also, I've read some of his essays. He is brillant!
Diamond is someone who takes a step back and looks at the big picture of human kind and our planet. This is a great piece!
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. We have been declining since October, 1973
The first oil shock. Ever since then, incomes and jobs have been on a downward spiral.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The Lewis Powell Memo
put the right-wing, one-party takeover of the United States into motion.
The takeover is nearly complete now.
This article is a great read:
http://www.mediatransparency.org/stories/powell.htm
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. That sounds about right...eom
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codswallop Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. America won't recognize its own collapse
Edited on Sun Jan-02-05 08:24 PM by codswallop
until the final card has fallen.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Some will some won't
I think it is fair to say that the half that voted for Kerry have somewhat of an idea of what is happening, and some of those that voted for Bush will get it in a short while.

We have pretty much only a shell of a society, everywhere you look you can see the thin veneer of bright paint over rotten wood. The future will be what we decide to make of it, we have more power than we might realize.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Live like Enron...
Collapse and die like Enron...
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. shout out to another texas lawyer!!
Hey, let it collapse. If we could collapse to being an economy in scale with our population perhaps we could learn to live with less, like Europeans do...

Maybe we could learn to conserve more.

Maybe we could learn better ways to get along with the rest of world.

Maybe we could shift back towards being the democracy our forebearers established.
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