‘Americans first’ shadow on H-1B route

[OhioChick]

Washington, Jan. 28: With three million jobs expected to be scrubbed in the US this year as the economic crisis takes its toll, the H-1B route that brought tens of thousands of Indians to America is facing opposition that may prove terminal for the programme.

While the world is transfixed over the hopes springing from Barack Obama's expansive $825 billion economic recovery effort, a battle is raging in the US Senate over the new US president's choice of a labour secretary who has said that local candidates must be considered for job openings in America before employers can recruit in countries like India.

While most of Obama's new cabinet members have already started work, the confirmation of Hilda Solis is being held up in a Senate committee as the result of an anonymous “hold” on her choice as labour secretary.

Solis said at her confirmation hearing in answer to a question posed by a Senator who supports the H-1B programme: “I want to look at how certification occurs. I want to look at how the labour pool is identified. Whether it be in the surrounding area where that particular business may be looking and seeking for high tech individuals what extensive availability of information is there so we know, if before we go abroad, we are first prioritising those workers who are in fact capable and ready to fill these positions.”

She elaborated that such “priority in my mind would be fairness. First of all, looking at how we provide fairness for those individuals who are trained and who are here in this country. Put them first”.

That the H-1B visa programme is quickly becoming a dirty word in the US also became obvious last week after a prominent Senator pounced on Microsoft, investigating if the company had laid off Indians and other foreign staff before getting rid of American workers.

After Microsoft announced a cut of 5,000 jobs, the first ever lay off for the computer conglomerate, Senator Charles Grassley wrote asking the company’s CEO Steve Ballmer if it will be retaining H-1B workers and putting similarly qualified American workers out of their jobs.

“I want to make sure employers recruit qualified American workers first before hiring foreign guest workers,” Grassley wrote.

“Last year, Microsoft was here on Capitol Hill advocating for more H-1B visas…. These work visa programmes were never intended to allow a company to retain foreign guest workers rather than similarly qualified American workers, when that company cuts jobs during an economic downturn.”

More: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090129/jsp/frontpage/story_10455379.jsp

Snip~ "The Bush administration labour department’s “Strategic Plan for Fiscal Years 2006-2011” explicitly stated that “H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified US worker wants the job, and a US worker can be displaced from the job in favour of the foreign worker”.

That policy is now under severe attack here. Republican Senator Grassley, along with Democrat Dick Durbin have moved a bill on Capitol Hill that would require employers to advertise job openings on a labour department web site before submitting an H-1B application."

[county worker]

1. I hope killing of the H1-b program helps DUers in the IT field find meaningful employment.

I've always hated reading posts from DUers put out of work by the H1-b program. I think the idea that business can't find enough talent in this country is pure bull shit!

[Barack_America]

2. If you kill the H1-b program outright, biological science in this country...

...will come to a screeching halt.

I've gotten flamed for saying this on DU in the past, but I stick by my opinion, there are simply not enough Americans trained to fill these positions. A reduction in H1-b visas, combined with incentives to get American students to train in the sciences, is the better approach.

[Waiting For Everyman]

3. Well let's end it and just see what happens.

I highly doubt that. But there's only one way to find out. Prognostication doesn't cut it.

[Gman2]

17. Simple, make H1B's more expensive than americans.

Then, if they pony up, they needed the outside talent. If they just squeel that they are too expensive, tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. A perfect solution.

Call their bluff. This program didn't always exist, and it doesn't need to.

At a time like this, it definitely should be ended. It's almost symbolic of the overall problem we've created for ourselves. The jobs we don't offshore, we bring foreigners here to do - why would we think we wouldn't be collapsing from that?

[sledgehammer]

24. Yes

That would be an excellent solution. Coupled with regulation on the abuse (specifically wage discrepancy).

And maybe even impose limits on a per company basis. Some companies (e.g. Microsoft, IBM, and Indian-based companies in the US) hire thousands of H-1Bs. Restrict them to a hundred or so. And if they want more, then each additional H-1 is exponentially more expensive.

[OhioChick]

5. That's a myth....

The Science Education Myth
Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

More:http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_827398.htm

[Barack_America]

6. That's why I was careful to separate biological sciences from engineering.

Lots of Americans go into engineering, not so much with biological sciences.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

28. BINGO CITIZEN

[Deja Q]

32. Another article:

"The Education Scam"
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11181-0.html?forumID=6&threadID=179848&start=0

[Every Man A King]

9. So train them n/t

[haele]

10. Americans used to be trained in the sciences -

But with over 20 years of a faltering middle class, upper and professional classes teaching their kids to chase the God Mammon, rising cost of public college tuition, public schools "teaching the tests", education slashing arts and other "frills" and not encouraging independent thinking - you don't have young people going after the subjects that aren't going to get them an instant paycheck and enough social standing to have some sort of Hollywood Good Life.
Science is hard work and takes both curiosity and dedication as well as smarts.
We as a society haven't been engaging our kids in a direction to become anything but shallow, passive, "live in the now" drones for several decades. There's very little fire in the belly for these kids. Not just because of any one thing - broken or overworked, over stimulated families, underfunded schools, and the corporatization of the citizen, but because there has not been a sense of a future in this country since the Apollo program ended. American society has just been spinning on it's wheels, living off the enthusiasm and hard work of previous generations, while third world countries are striving for their own versions of "great leaps forward", valuing and investing in education and science.

Real science suffers when there's no vision or drive to advance.

Haele

[Barack_America]

12. I agree wholeheartedly.

First and foremost is a failure by our public schools to stimulate intellectual curiosity in our students. All fields have suffered as a result.

Biological science just happens to be an example where there was an explosion of opportunity and not enough Americans trained to meet the demand. The good news is that the federal government is a primary funding source for this industry, making it relatively easy to provide incentives for Americans to choose this career. We just need more inspired Americans. :(

[county worker]

11. How is it that people from other countries can get trained be our people can't?

I don't understand that. I don't buy it either.

[Barack_America]

13. It's not "can" it's "want".

Americans don't tend to choose a career in biological sciences. For those interested, however, there are many opportunities.

[Deja Q]

29. Care to provide some examples for us to follow? I'm all ears.

I am interested and I did well in biology in high school - and I don't mean spreading STDs or getting lots of women impregnated and getting my picture in the yearbook as a reward for doing so.

[sledgehammer]

23. Let's look at it this way

Take the example of biological sciences. It's a pretty specific field. There are probably many Americans in the field, but not enough since it's relatively new and burgeoning. At the same time, there are probably many foreigners who have done some pretty great research and are very competent. US govt and companies attract them here for research and employment, and it's a mutually beneficial solution. It provides the US with a competitive advantage, and the scientist with great research opportunities and a life in the US.

Here's a comparative example of German scientists after WWII:

The scientists drew little attention from the American press or public until October 4, 1957, when the Soviets launched Sputnik. Suddenly all eyes were on our rocket team. The assertion that “their Germans are better than our Germans” (variously attributed to Bob Hope, Lyndon Johnson, and myriad presidential advisers) summed up the public’s attitude at the beginning of the decade-long space race. “Our” Germans, led by Wernher von Braun, put a satellite into orbit three months later and of course ultimately triumphed with the moon landing in July 1969. They also made less famous but equally significant contributions to American jet technology, optics, and electronics.

This doesn't mean that there no qualified engineers/scientists in the US after WWII. But that many German scientists had made great progress in certain fields (especially physics), and the US (and the USSR for that matter) benefited greatly from their expertise.

Now, this makes sense for very specific fields. But it does not make much sense for more standard/mature fields like IT, which is where the H-1 has been massively abused by companies.

[AndyTiedye]

14. This isn't about Killing the H1B Program, It is About ENFORCING THE LAW

The cheap labor Repiglickins have been using the H1B program to displace Americans with foreign workers on H1B visas. That is illegal.

We just want the law enforced.

[OhioChick]

15. Thank you. n/t

[Barack_America]

19. The post I replied to specifically proposed "killing the H1B program".

That was a direct quote.

:shrug:

[SharonAnn]

16. Maybe not enough Americans aren't trained for it because they can't get hired?

Just a thought.

We've known for more than 10 years that companies have been increasing their H1B staff and thay've continually tried to get permission for even more H1B visas.

So, Americans don't want to get trained in a field where they're going to be pushed aside in order to hire a more malleable, lower cost H1B visa holder.

It's been happening all over the IT field and many others.

[Barack_America]

18. Not in biological sciences...

It's a very specific example, but in this field, there are tremendous government-provided opportunities to encourage Americans to enter and stick with the field. Not enough takers thus far though.

[OhioChick]

20. You're absolutely right.

My neighbor's son has a PHD in the sciences, got laid off 2 years ago and is now living with his parents....mind you....he's in his early 40's!

He's not lazy and has been looking for work on a continual basis for the past 2 years and is always told he's "over-qualified." Unfortunately, there are many similar stories out there.

[relayerbob]

21. Yep, sure are

and I'm one of them. "Overqualified" my ass. My last employer just drove his THIRD company into bankruptcy due to his incompetence, and I could run circes around him.

As far as H1-B, I like the idea of charging companies to hire guest workers when it's at the expense of our jobs. Time for corporations to belly up to the bar, rather than drink up all the proceeds and bark all over it.

[Deja Q]

30. Seconded.

I know people, albeit not directly, and in other science fields laid off simply due to costs.

Corporate greed will make Americans indolent. What then when all incentives have been extinguished?

[olegramps]

27. You entitled to your opinion,but not your facts.

The absolute fact of the matter is that H-1B's are paid less and in many cases they are performing jobs that could be filled by American workers. Get a copy of Lou Dobbs book and bone up on the facts.

[OhioChick]

8. Bull shit, is right.

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

More: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/

Many other studies have confirmed this myth, as well.

[Bluestar]

4. The H1B Visa program was ramped up in the late '90's when

our economy was booming (thank you, Big Dog) and ERP installations as a way of solving the Y2K problems were also booming--there was too much work and not enough people to do it. Soon greedy companies found a way to keep H1B workers rather than hire more expensive Americans. Then the outsourcing BS started in the downturn after 9-11. I hope Obama plugs the tax loopholes that encourage companies to offshore their businesses and plugs the holes in the H1B program.

I think it's funny that India is so indignant that these policies are going to get fixed under a Democratic administration. This was always a risk for them, but now their attitude is that they are entitled in some way to this business at the expense of Americans. Add to this the fact that China is nipping at India's heels as the NEW cheap IT labor and they have a lot of problems--hahahahaha! Karma is a bitch!

[OhioChick]

7. Yet...

Expatriate executives making way for local hires (India firing foreigners..hiring locals)

28 Jan 2009, 0503 hrs IST, Sanjeev Choudhary, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: Expatriate executives, who were the flavour of the season when India was riding high on a 9%-plus growth rate, are now becoming first ones to get the pink slip as Indian industry, hit by the slowdown, starts looking within the country for inexpensive hires.

“Many of the expatriate executives, who have been asked to leave, are subject experts. Their value diminishes in a downturn as companies are no more expanding, and thus don’t need people to guide in a new venture,” says K Sudarshan, MD of executive search firm EMA Partners’ India unit.

Since October 2008, there has been a spate of replacements of expat executives with Indian professionals at the senior level.

Aviva Life Insurance appointed former Citibank executive TR Ramachandran to replace Bert Paterson as the CEO for its Indian operations. Insurance firm MetLife replaced its CFO Nick Paket with an Indian hire. And, according to executive search firms, two top expatriate executives of another insurance firm are slated to leave in March, to be replaced by Indians.

More: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[Deja Q]

31. Ultimately, it's not funny. For anybody.

Which includes those at the top playing these wretched hamster games with people and countries.

[Azlady]

25. Kick & Recommeding to the Greatest Page

[ihavenobias]

26. Kick n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

33. I'm all for forcefully paying h-1b's 1/3rd more than US counterpart...

then we will see how little they are needed. They just are not, plain and simple.