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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 04:34 PM
Original message
How it happened
Edited on Tue Dec-30-03 04:16 AM by EarlG
The following article, as you can tell by the context, was written probably in 1992. It appeared in Playboy Magazine. I tore it out of my son's copy and saved it for this long. I have contacted the author and have his permission to post it in here.

I will write my own article, shortly, explaining my own experience since 1964, and pointing out (just in case some of you DON'T understand) how we got from then to now. I do hope everyone will get off their duffs and realize that this election is critical, and how few need pay attention to counteract this intended theocracy.

Be patient with me. I am not too computer savvy, and I hope this will copy and paste. I had to type this sucker all by myself, because I do not have a scanner. If you don't appreciate the words, appreciate my efforts.

THE ARTICLE.....


WITH GOD AS THEIR CO-PILOT

under cover of a devastating republican defeat, pat Robertson's operatives hope to hijack the ship of state.

article by Joe Conason

A wide range of Americans celebrated lustily the night the Republicans lost the White House. Breaking out the champagne after 12 years of GOP rule were the old left, the new Democrats, the pro-choicers, the environmentalists, women, minorities and gays. But those corks may have been popped in vain, or at least prematurely. The defeat of George Bush may mark only the true takeoff point for the increasingly powerful religious right, a movement far more ominous than any represented by Bush or Ronald Reagan. It is a movement whose intolerance and fanaticism have been festering for years, but which America has glimpsed only in recent months.

Two weeks after Election Day, it reared into view at, of all places, a Republican governor's meeting in Wisconsin. Having gathered to nurse their wounds, the governors held a brief press conference at the end of their two-day confab. It should have been a dull affair. Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice unexpectedly livened it up when he took the microphone and declared that America is a "Christian nation."

Such sentiments are anathema to most Republican politicians, including Carroll Campbell, the conservative governor of South Carolina, who is one of former Republican National Committee chairman Lee Atwater's great success stories. Governor Campbell leapt to the microphone to explain that of course the nation's values come from our "Judeo-Christian heritage. I just wanted to add the Judeo part." Fordice glared at his Dixie colleague and retorted sharply, "If I wanted to do that, I would have done it."

The following day, as people lined up to denounce his exclusionary rhetoric, the Mississippi governor's statement blew up in his face. He swiftly apologized. But it seems reasonable to note--as he himself did at first blush--that Kirk Fordice meant what he said the first time. After all, he was a political novice when he was elected in 1991, and he gained his high office with the help of the nation's wealthiest, fastest-growing, most powerful and best organized grassroots political movement; the resurgent Christian right. No group is more important to that movement than the little-known 300,000-member Christian Coalition, which is led by televangelist Pat Robertson.

It was one more example of why moderates and even many conservatives in the Republican Party are running scared. A few of them, including former Senator Warren Rudman and former Representative Tom Campbell, are now organizing to keep their party from being taken over by Robertson forces. But so far their Republican Majority Coalition, founded last December, is little more than a fund-raising letterhead, and they are scared because they know it may already be too late.

Although most Americans first noticed that a strangely authoritarian tone had reentered the nation's politics during the Republican convention in Houston last August, local Republican politicos in certain key states began to realize that their party was being taken over as early as the spring of 1992.

For example, when the upright Republicans of suburban San Antonio, Texas got together to choose the delegates they would send to the 1992 Republican National Convention, they probably expected the usual staid and utterly predictable proceedings. They had gone to sleep that beautiful spring night of the Texas presidential primary confident that all was well in their neat little world. And why not? Their president, the quintessential country-club Republican George Bush, had wupped Pat Buchanan badly and that was the end, wasn't it?

Well, not quite. At the delegate selection meetings, the party regulars began to notice a lot of unfamiliar faces. After that, it took only a few hours for the new activists of the Christian right to blow away the country-club GOP in that part of Texas. With laser-beam precision, they elected new chairmen and passed resolutions against abortion, sex education, AIDS education and gay rights, and for the abolition of the National Endowment for the Arts.

The rich Republicans of San Antonio's Bexar County consider themselves very conservative. And they are. But the politics of this new crowd gave them a bad scare. Not long after the Christian rightists staged their coup, the president of the Alamo City Republican Women's club just gave up and quit.

"The so-called Christian activists have finally gained control," she explained in her resignation letter, "and the Grand Old Party is more religious cult than political organization."

Of course, that was Texas, a traditional hotbed of Birchers and Bible jocks. Couldn't happen anywhere else, could it?

Next came the Pennsylvania primary, where moderate Republicans slept soundly after cheering the defeat of an ultraconservative challenger to their incumbent senator, Arlen Specter. For them, the shock came the next day, when the votes for obscure Republican state committee positions were tallied. From nowhere, conservative Christians had grabbed dozens of seats. The militant newcomers are now close to controlling the Republican Party in Pennsylvania, too.

In June, in the San Diego County towns of Lemon Grove and El Cajon, a slate of "pro-family" Christian right activists financed by a group of conservative businessmen swept the Republican primary for all of the open council seats, along with a slew of state assembly seats. On the same day, several hundred miles to the north in Santa Clara Country, another slate of "biblically oriented" candidates--committed to the death penalty for such sins as homosexuality and abortion--captured 14 of 20 seats on the Republican county central committee. The GOP apparatus in the nation's most populous state is within a few votes of being absolutely controlled by the Christian right.

These no-so-isolated incidents foreshadow a change taking place in American politics--a shift that has nothing to do with bounced checks, smoking bimbos, talk shows, dirty tricks or any other floating ephemera of campaign 1992. Across the nation, in primary after primary, stunned Republican leaders echoed the lament of one longtime party activist in Texas, a personal friend of Barbara Bush, who suddenly found herself ousted by the fundamentalists. "They organized and we didn't," she said. "I didn't think it was going to be this bad."

A leading Christian right organizer in southern California put it much more cheerfully when he said, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

The elephant being eyed so hungrily by the Christian right seems to be in no position to defend itself. If the Republicans were vulnerable to a takeover by Robertson's forces before November's debacle, they are even more so now.

On Election Day, as the Bush-Quayle ticket sank, taking many Republican candidates down with it, the Christian Coalition claimed several key victories, particularly the defeat of Terry Sanford (the liberal Democratic senator from North Carolina) and the passage of an antigay referendum in Colorado. A few weeks later, when a special runoff election was held to choose a senator in Georgia, the religious right muscled incumbent Democrat Wyche Fowler, Jr. out of his seat in favor of Republican Paul Coverdell. Bill Clinton had taken time from his transition chores to campaign for Fowler, and the senator's loss marked the first political setback for the president-elect.

*

Like the hapless Republican moderates, you probably thought you no longer had to worry about the likes of Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and Jerry Falwell. It's true that those three divines are gone, but the vacuum they left has been more than filled by Pat Robertson and a host of lesser inquisitors. And the smiling host of the 700 club--an extremely wealthy businessman, whose father was a Democratic U.S. senator and who controls a worldwide communications network--is smarter, tougher and far more committed than his brethren who fell by the wayside. Thanks to his 1988 presidential candidacy, moreover, Robertson is now the acknowledged, preeminent political leader of right-wing evangelicals in America. He has no rivals of any significance.

Even now, only a few Americans are aware of the resurrection of the Christian right, a political movement pronounced dead at the end of the Eighties, because it has occurred in places largely unnoticed by Beltway pundits. Reporters and commentators, fascinated by the fleeting phenomena of Ross Perot and Jerry Brown, ignored Robertson and his troops for most of the election year, just as they have since the televangelist's own 1988 campaign ended in failure.

Since the shock of the Republican convention, there has been a smattering of press attention, chiefly in the major national dailies. Reporters occasionally turn to Ralph Reed, Jr., the baby-faced but aggressive young executive director of Christian Coalition, for comment, but most political analysts still have only the vaguest idea of what Robertson has been up to the past few years. He and his allies have been funneling millions of dollars into the Christian Coalition, which now has more than 550 chapters and hundreds of thousands of members in all states. Last year the coalition spent about &8 million, tax-exempt, on "voter education" efforts.

Back when Robertson was running for president, he often complained about the national media’s scornful attitude toward his conversations with God and his claims of working miracles. But these days the skepticism of the press suits him just fine. Much as Robertson still loves the sound of his own voice, the preacher has called no press conferences to boast about the quiet victories his candidates have scored. He still rarely mentions Christian Coalition in the secular media.

Last May, for instance, when he was trying to buy United Press International, Robertson appeared on CNN’s Larry King Live and talked about politics, but not Christian politics. He understands that political guerrilla warfare is most effective when nobody’s looking. “I paint my face and travel at night” is how Ralph Reed describes Christian Coalition’s stealthy campaign methods. “You don’t know it’s over until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know until election night.”

As Pat Robertson’s organizers fan out across the countryside registering churchgoers, canvassing “pro-family” voters, preparing campaign literature, training precinct captains and keeping a low profile, he seeks nothing less than control of the Republican Party by the Christian right. While it may sound ambitious, seizing the GOP is only the first step in a plan that begins at the bottom of the political system and extends far beyond the current electoral horizon.

“Our next goal is to elect conservative pro-family majorities in the legislatures of at least thirty-five states. Then, when we get that, we’ll go on to fifty,” Robertson told an audience of 800 Christian activists during a closed meeting at his Virginia headquarters in November 1991. “We want to see a working majority of the Republican Party in the hands of pro-family Christians by 1996 or sooner. Of course, we want to see the White House in pro-family Christian hands, at least by the year 2000 or sooner, if the Lord permits.”

This patient approach has I no way tempered the fanatic ideology of Robertson’s theocracy. As always, he ended his speech with a prayer while his listeners stood, closed their eyes and held hands. “That we will see the standard of biblical values raised over this land,” he intoned, “and that those who have mocked You and cursed You and cast out Your people is as evil will be put down, and that Your people will be lifted up. No, God, we pray that You will use us.”

*

After spending more than $25 million and a vast reservoir of his followers’ emotional energy on his 1988 campaign, Robertson went to the Republican convention with only 120 delegates. When Bush had defeated him on Super Tuesday throughout his native South, Robertson’s career in politics, despite a few promising moments during the primary contests in Iowa and Michigan, seemed wasted. Even worse, Robertson’s grassroots lobbying and political action group, the Freedom Council, was dissolved in the midst of an Internal Revenue Service investigation into its alleged use of tax-exempt status to boost Robertson’s political aspirations.

So as Bush was inaugurated, it appeared that the Virginia evangelist’s rantings would thereafter be confined to his growing television empire. But in the summer of 1989, as Robertson likes to tell it, re received a call from a Louisiana man named Billy McCormack, who had served as that state’s coordinator of his presidential effort.

“Pat,” said McCormack, “you ran for president and you spent a great deal of money and a great deal of time and personal suffering. If you do not get back into this situation, all your effort will have been for naught. There are people, by the hundreds of thousands around this country waiting to rally to leadership.”

Robertson says he prayed for political guidance and discovered that Mr. McCormack was right. God did want him to get back into the political arena. This September, the televangelist called a meeting in Atlanta of about two dozen key supporters of his 1988 race to form a new organization. And they name? They considered titles such as Society of Traditional Values or the Pro-Family Agenda League, but Robertson thundered, “No! I am a Christian. I am not ashamed of Jesus. And we will call this the Christian Coalition. If other people don’t like it, that’s just tough luck.

The way Robertson talks about the naming of his new organization offers insights into the mentality behind the Christian right’s revival. As with many other groups in America, evangelicals are nowadays inclined to think of themselves as victims—an oppressed minority within a secular humanist society that doesn’t understand them. This culture of victimization has been a staple of Robertson’s preaching for years, and forms an important part of Christian Coalition ideology.

But the victims of secular humanism are special, as Robertson always notes, because they have been chosen by God to rule. “We are going to see a society,” he promises, “where the people of God once again are where God intended them to be. We will be the head and the tail.”

Of course, right now the grassroot members of the Christian Coalition are deeply concerned over the prospect of an immoral Clinton presidency. As president-elect, the Arkansan immediately defied the Christian right by repeating his campaign promises to protect abortion rights and to permit homosexuals to join or remain in the military. While Clinton maybe less liberal on certain issues than the rest of his party, he is quite plainly a product of the sexual revolution.

Clearly, the utopia Robertson has promised his followers will have to wait until Clinton has vacated the White House. In the Christian America to come, says Robertson, “those who read these filthy books and engage in the filthy practices and who are out drunk and taking drugs, those people are going to be the ones who are ashamed of their conduct.

In Robertson’s America, pornography (very loosely defined) would be outlawed, along with abortion, homosexuality and extramarital sex. There would be far more stringent restrictions on divorce and the sale of alcohol. The government would no longer provide public education or social welfare, both of which would be in the hands of the churches. Robertson has said that he looks forward to a time when not only “the men in the Senate and the House are spirit-filled and worship Jesus Christ” but the judges in every courthouse are speaking in tongues. Robertson’s cohort includes a faction to the right of Pat himself. The Christian re-constructionists cite the Old Testament to urge the death penalty for gays and for doctors who perform abortions.

Such medieval legislation isn’t exactly imminent. But in the meantime, Christian rightists are applying their principles at the local level—particularly on school boards, where the Christian Coalition has achieved notable success in recent elections. On that level, the Christian right has undertaken campaigns to censor such sinister humanist texts as Little Red Ridinghood (in which Grandma drinks a glass of wine) and to abolish school breakfast programs as a threat to family values.

Despite the bizarre theocratic notions espoused by the Christian Coalition’s leaders, the group’s meetings seem more like seminars than revival meetings. There are prayers and usually some discussion of the enemy: feminists, gays, the media, democrats and demonic Republican moderates. There’s always at least one speech denouncing abortion.

Lee Atwater, who died in 1991, was the acknowledged master of the dirty campaign, and his spirit survives in Christian Coalition politics. Atwater is the man cited most often as a political authority by Robertson, Ralph Reed and other coalition leaders.

Beginning in the fall of 1991 and continuing for 12 months thereafter, Christian Coalition organizers distributed costly “precinct action kits” to their local operatives, helping them identify “pro-family” voters to be turned out on Election Day. For more than a year, coalition members were on the phones, night after night, dialing their neighbors to compile computerized lists showing who is registered, who is a Republican, who opposes abortion and who voted in 1988 for George Bush. Those people received the voter guides to help them decide which candidates were morally fit for public office, from president on down to dogcatcher.

The president lost, but the dogcatchers won. And for the Christian Coalition, that is the place to start building real power. Both the coalition and groups opposing it, such as People for the American Way, estimate that Christian right candidates won as many as 500 seats in various legislative and local government races across the country in November. Those are impressive results for a group that essentially didn’t exist as a national entity a year earlier.

Nothing displayed Robertson’s new pragmatism more clearly than his embrace of Bush, a man he surely despised. He endorsed the president more than a year before the 1992 election, and the Christian Coalition worked hard for his doomed campaign. This was despite the fact that many of the coalition’s top activists preferred Patrick Buchanan (as did, according to Robertson’s own phone polls, the vast majority of his 700 club viewers.)

Actually, the hapless Bush represented the forces in the Republican Party that Roberson would like to drive out. In his 1988 autobiography, Bush boasted of his confrontations in Houston during the early Sixties with right-wing nut cakes on the fringes of the GOP—members of the John Birch Society who suspected that Bush might be a one-world tool of the communist Wall Street internationalist conspiracy.

Robertson did not like Bush’s new world order, viewing it as the latest variant of the same old communistic Wall Street plot. Except that, having appropriated all of the musty Bircher mumbo jumbo, the reverend has upped the ante just a bit. According to him the entire conspiracy has been personally orchestrated by the Devil himself.

“Indeed,” warns Robertson, “it may well be that men of goodwill such as Woodrow Wilson, Jimmy Carter and George Bush, who sincerely wanted a larger community of nations living at peace in our world, are in reality unknowingly and unwittingly carrying out the mission and mouthing the phrases of a tightly knit cabal whose goal is nothing less than a new order for the human race under the domination of Lucifer and his followers.”

Duped by a Satanic conspiracy? That’s worse than anything Bill Clinton ever said about Bush. It must have been even harder for Robertson to support Bush than it was for most other Republicans. But with Bush out of the way, the question of whom to support in 1996 is a daunting one. Dan Quayle was a favorite of the Christian Coalition, but he’s tainted, too. Buchanan is well-liked, but there’s a slightly embarrassing problem with him. He’s a Catholic, and though “pro-family Catholics” are welcome to join the coalition, they aren’t religiously “saved.” William Bennett, the former drug czar who is mulling a presidential run, is also Catholic.

Jack Kemp, currently the most popular Republican, was raised as a Christian Scientist. As far as the evangelical right is concerned, that’s close to Satan worship. Kemp is also something of a bleeding-heart conservative, especially in his attitudes toward government action to revitalize urban ghettos. Worst of all, he doesn’t have the family-values luster the coalition prefers.

All of which leaves Robertson himself. Does that sound more ludicrous than ominous? Maybe, but in 1988 the Virginia preacher didn’t do much worse than Kemp, who is considered the Republican front-runner right now. If President Clinton falls, if the nations suffers further economic decline or moral doubt, an electorate that is simultaneously angry and inattentive may be capable of action that are awesomely self-destructive. In 1993 we had a close call with Ross Perot.

There may not be much chance that a majority of Americans would willingly vote to overturn the Constitution and to surrender their freedom to a band of religious zealots. But the long-term plan of the Christian right no longer relies on the so-called moral majority. Its new strategy depends on a tiny but disciplined minority that can exploit voter apathy and ignorance to gain power incrementally—first on school boards, then in state legislatures and finally in Washington.

Should the Christian right succeed in taking over the Republican Party, it will inherit an extremely powerful apparatus. Such a party, running against the usually fractious and disorganized Democrats, is a chilling prospect.

The irony is that if it does come to pass, it will happen because the ordinary couch potatoes did what they usually do: nothing. Most of them won’t know what’s happened until their favorite TV shows are censored.

Read What Guy Rodgers, the director of organizing for the Christian Coalition, has said to audiences around the country for the past year: “In a presidential election, when more voters turn out than in any other election, only fifteen percent of eligible voters actually determine the outcome. How can that be? Well, of all the adults eighteen and over eligible to vote, only about sixty percent are registered to vote. It’s less than that in many states. Of those registered to vote, in a good turnout, only half go to the polls. That means thirty percent of those eligible are actually voting. So fifteen percent determines the outcome in a high-turnout election. In low–turnout elections—city council, county commission, state legislature—the percentage that deter-mines who wins can be as low as six or seven percent.

“Is this sinking in? We don’t have to worry about persuading a majority of Americans to agree with us. Most of them are staying home and watching Falcon Crest. Do you understand?”

Well, do you?

Fin

*** Re-edited by Admin. This article is reprinted in full with the author's permission. ***
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. True but not all Dems have escaped this push
This was in Harper's last March:

Jesus Plus Nothing

Ivanwald, which sits at the end of Twenty-fourth Street North in Arlington, Virginia, is known only to its residents and to the members and friends of the organization that sponsors it, a group of believers who refer to themselves as “the Family.” The Family is, in its own words, an “invisible” association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as “members,” as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.). Regular prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries. The Family maintains a closely guarded database of its associates, but it issues no cards, collects no official dues. Members are asked not to speak about the group or its activities.

The organization has operated under many guises, some active, some defunct: National Committee for Christian Leadership, International Christian Leadership, the National Leadership Council, Fellowship House, the Fellowship Foundation, the National Fellowship Council, the International Foundation. These groups are intended to draw attention away from the Family, and to prevent it from becoming, in the words of one of the Family's leaders, “a target for misunderstanding.” <1> The Family's only publicized gathering is the National Prayer Breakfast, which it established in 1953 and which, with congressional sponsorship, it continues to organize every February in Washington, D.C. Each year 3,000 dignitaries, representing scores of nations, pay $425 each to attend. Steadfastly ecumenical, too bland most years to merit much press, the breakfast is regarded by the Family as merely a tool in a larger purpose: to recruit the powerful attendees into smaller, more frequent prayer meetings, where they can “meet Jesus man to man.”

In the process of introducing powerful men to Jesus, the Family has managed to effect a number of behind-the-scenes acts of diplomacy. In 1978 it secretly helped the Carter Administration organize a worldwide call to prayer with Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat, and more recently, in 2001, it brought together the warring leaders of Congo and Rwanda for a clandestine meeting, leading to the two sides' eventual peace accord last July. Such benign acts appear to be the exception to the rule. During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa's postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand “Communists” killed marks him as one of the century's most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise. “We work with power where we can,” the Family's leader, Doug Coe, says, “build new power where we can't.”

http://www.harpers.org/JesusPlusNothing.html?pg=1
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for taking the time to type this out
This is very serious and maybe we should print out this stuff and leave it around for people to read.
Judging by how well they've done on local school boards and the chssoing of tect books, what they're doing is succeeding by stealth when they know the majority of people would be against what they stand for if it was out in the open.

Death penalty for gays? These people are monstrous.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. another Article re: the Family, recent residents (Gov of ME) & leaders.
http://www.portlandphoenix.com/features/top/ts_multi/documents/02877355.asp

some references to Harpers article plus additional info.
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Bobby Digital Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. sources?
Interesting article. Where are the sources?
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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If the Joe Conason article
Joe Conason is still practicing his craft and can be found under that name on Google. The source for that particular article was Playboy Magazine. That's if your question was in respect to that article.
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Bobby Digital Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. no
No, I mean, the article makes a lot of claims that I found astounding, such as the contention that the Christian coalition supports the death penalty for homosexuality. I want sources on such claims to verify their truthfulness.
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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. OK. Digital.
The article is ten years old, at least, but I will find the sources for you. Keep checking the thread. Bookmark it. I will find them, I hope. I can't know about that particular subject, death penalty for homosexuals, but I think I heard something about it back then, so I will investigate. Thanks for asking for sources. Good thinking.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Google Gary North
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 08:26 PM by The Zanti Regent
Gary North, the leading theoretician of the KKKristian ReKKKonstruKKKtionists has written articles calling for the implementation of Old Testament Law, which includes the death penalty for Gays and Lesbians.

Oh, by the Way, North also advocates the abolition of the 13th Amendment and the reinstitution of Slavery. North says that it is the duty of the White man to re-enslave blacks, Latinos and Orientals, in order to provide them with a KKKristian education.

And also, North advocates the rounding up of ALL Jews and sending them all to Israel. He then goes on to rationalize this by saying that 2/3 of all the Jews are going to be killed at Armageddon because the Revelation says so.

These assholes are BEYOND sick.
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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Some sources, Digital
http://www.4religious-right.info/san_jose.html


http://www.4religious-right.info/taking_over.htm

http://www.buildingequality.us/ifas/fw/9303/antigay.html

http://www.skepticfiles.org/fw/wordspic.htm

http://www.tylwythteg.com/christian/chriscol.html

http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/homosex_christian_humanism.htm

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre1.html

Although at a later time, the on line site, Townhall gave Robertson a dressing down when he expressed opposition to the death penalty in general (you can find links to that, or for that, on Google) we are talking about the time the article was written. Townhall is a right wing website. The others are undoubtedly left wing, but will contain links, names, dates and other places for you to pursue your research until you are comfortable with the accuracy of the writer of the article at that time.

Thanks for making ME look it up.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. also check out theocracywatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org/

This is scary stuff. And lots of republicans are totally unaware of what's happening to their party!
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You likely won't find..
any link to or statement by the Christian Coalition as such advocating the death penalty for homosexuality. Robertson has made some pretty outrageous statements in the past condemning it, the gist of which would easily lead someone to believe he supports the death penalty in that case. Certainly, anyone so predisposed would likely take his statements as death penalty friendly.

The Christian Reconstructionist make no secret of their support for the death penalty for homosexuals. They are perhaps the most explicitly and systematically theocratic of Christian movement in America, and they have a great deal of influence, more than people want to know about or acknowledge. They tend, however, to regard the Christian Right, the Robertsons etc, as Christian lite accomadators to modernity. They're very critical of the likes of the Christian Coalition.
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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. You may be new
I note this is listed as your first and second posts, Digital. I had a difficult time trying to keep up with what I had posted. But there is, on the left hand side of the screen, right above the listed postings, a "bookmark this thread" choice. Click on it, and you can find, when you next sign in, those threads to which you have posted, or which you originated. There is a "bookmarks" listed, and you will be able to keep track of threads in which you are interested, or those to which you have posted.

Incidentally, under "links" on DU, is the DNC. The author of this article is listed among those on the left hand side of that DNC page.

Good luck.

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. That was the christian reconstructionists
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 08:56 PM by RainDog
google that name and you'll find a load of information from them and about them online.

Randall Terry, who advocated killing doctors who perform legal abortions, is one of them.

edited to add a link and some quotes from Rushdoony, who also had connections to ES&S voting machines company...don't know if he does now, but...

http://vanallens.com/exchristian/2002_03_30_archive.php

, "God in His law requires the death penalty for homosexuals."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Democracy is the great love of the failures and cowards of life."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The state is a bankrupt institution. The only alternative to this bankrupt 'humanistic' system is a God-centered government."

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"Christianity is completely and radically anti-democratic; it is committed to spiritual aristrocracy."

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"Segregation or separation is thus a basic principle of Biblical law with respect to religion and morality. Every attempt to destroy this principle is an effort to reduce society to its lowest common denominator. Toleration is the excuse under which this levelling is undertaken, but the concept of toleration conceals a radical intolerance. In the name of toleration, the believer is asked to associate on a common level of total acceptance with the atheist, the pervert, the criminal, and the adherents of other religions as though no differences existed."

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. a google link to Christian Reconstructionists
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Bobby Digital Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. ok
Thanks for all the info guys. lapauvre, I was sort of hoping that the original article contained some sort of bibliography that you had access to also--I didn't mean to make you do research that I ought to have done myself.

It appears some of these guys are really extreme, but I didn't think Pat Robertson himself was anything more than your standard Christian fundamentalist. I'll have to do more reading on this subject...
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. March 1993 issue
is the one this article appeared in in Playboy
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RaulGroom Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Yo Bobby D
Do I know you? If not, that's a weird freaking coincidence. If so, welcome to the party. Don't hurt them, they're fragile. ;-D

Cam/RG/Nick
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RaulGroom Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh and by "the party" I mean
A group of people who have gathered to participate in an activity. I know you've not joined The Party.
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Bobby Digital Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I'm not sure
What other message boards do you post on? I use this nick on hiphopinfinity.com, and that's about it.
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RaulGroom Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Nah, never mind, you'd know me if you were who I thought you were
Oh, well. Welcome to the party anyway.
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Bobby Digital Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. awe...I thought I'd found a friend!
Oh well...
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Tali-born-agains
I grew up in the south, and I have been aware of this danger from the religious right since Reagan, at the latest.

These are seriously undemocratic people who have an agenda which is at odds with both the Constitution and with rational thought.

Bush is just the sort of figurehead idiot weakminded good-for-nothing they've needed...along with all the money he can raise.

They are asking for a civil war, basically, because democracy is too enlightened for them. We are in a low-intensity civil war right now, as John Ashcroft leads the way with his slimy hands steering the justice dept. to new levels of abuse of power.

They disgust me.

They are also dead wrong about this nation being founded as a Christian nation, and if they can't deal with that, then they should go find some uninhabited island where they can practice their brand of theocracy.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Religious wars

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/11/reich-r.html

Volume 14, Issue 11.   December 1, 2003.
The Religious Wars

Robert B. Reich

Editor's Note: This article has been updated to reflect yesterday's ruling by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court. The original version of the piece can be found in the December issue of the print magazine.

Since last summer's Supreme Court decision in Lawrence vs. Texas, overturning Texas' anti-sodomy law, evangelicals have grown louder. Now that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has declared that gay couples have the right to marry, evangelicals are committed to making gay marriage a major issue during the upcoming presidential campaign. Their recent legislative victory over "partial-birth" abortions has emboldened them to seek additional ways to erode Roe v. Wade. They're mounting an all-out offensive for Senate confirmation of people like Alabama's attorney general, William Pryor -- who called Roe "the worst abomination of constitutional law in our history" -- to the federal courts. And they're determined to put religion back into the public schools.

The outcome of the 2004 presidential election will depend partly on what happens between now and Election Day in Iraq and to the U.S. economy. But it will also turn on the religious wars -- fueled by evangelical Protestants, the ground troops of the Republican Party. The conventional wisdom is that these issues are sure winners for the right. But Democrats can hold their own in these wars -- if they respond vigorously to the coming assault.

Democrats should call all this for what it is -- a clear and present danger to religious liberty in America. For more than three hundred years, the liberal tradition has sought to free people from the tyranny of religious doctrines that would otherwise be imposed on them. Today's evangelical right detests that tradition and seeks nothing short of a state-sponsored religion. But maintaining the separation of church and state is a necessary precondition of liberty.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Founders quotes to debunk "christian nation" lies
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.

From: George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)


The government of the
United States is not,
in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

GEORGE WASHINGTON --Treaty of Tripoli
1796

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)


James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774


Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.

From: Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks lapauvre
Very interesting article especially from today's perspective. I remember reading about the Christian Right about that time and thinking there was no way they could take over the Republican party. But if they can do it with that few people, we can take it back. It does explain a lot about how the country got so off track.
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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Holier-than-thou "Ralph Reed" is worth Googling on this subject
He was the former head of the Christian Coalition and then became a GOP advisor. His behind-the-scenes work for Evangelical Christians is pretty scary. He likes to be known as "Stealth" (so I've read). Enron paid him $30,000 a month for "ongoing advice and counsel" in pushing deregulation in the energy industry. Many questioned this as sham to cover Enron's contribution to Bush's campaign.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. scariest part:
There may not be much chance that a majority of Americans
would willingly vote to overturn the Constitution and to
surrender their freedom to a band of religious zealots. But
the long-term plan of the Christian right no longer relies on
the so-called moral majority. Its new strategy depends on a
tiny but disciplined minority that can exploit voter apathy
and ignorance to gain power incrementally—first on school
boards, then in state legislatures and finally in Washington.


The entire Bush strategy of lies, deceit and thuggery fits in perfectly with the "christian" right... ends justify the means mentality.
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