Shocking The Conscience Of America: Bush And Cheney Call For ...... Shocking The Conscience Of America: Bush And Cheney Call For

[rodeodance]

Shocking The Conscience Of America: Bush And Cheney Call For ...... Shocking The Conscience Of Am...

I have to admit---i was surprized that Congress held fast on this one.


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1216-27.htm

Published on Friday, December 16, 2005 by FindLaws

Shocking The Conscience Of America: Bush And Cheney Call For The Right To Torture And Are Decisively and Correctly Rebuffed by the House
by John Dean


If the events I am about to describe were taking place in a movie, or novel, I would lose my ability to suspend disbelief: Who could conceive of an American President and Vice President demanding that Congress give them authority to torture anyone, under any circumstances?

Yet that is exactly what happened. Until Congress -- finally -- showed some institutional pride and told Bush and Cheney that it would not tolerate torture.

To place this activity in context, I have been trying to think of a similar "un-American" low point in the American presidency. Possible candidates might include John Adams's approval of the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798, or Abraham Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War.......

1. kick

:kick:

[Why Syzygy]

2. voted

:thumbsup:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. The theory that putting a puppet democracy in the middle of the ME

which certainly would promote things that fly in the face of the "religious majority" there will somehow deter terrorism is stoooooopid. Where were these terrorists?? Germany? Spain? England? The U.S.?? They are wherever their brand of extremism takes them, regardless the government. Where did Tim McVeigh come from?? David Koresh?? Unibomber?? The two million people locked away in Amurka's cottage industry prison system?? We are so full of crap sometimes I wonder how we got this far. One of the best ways to deal with terrorism is to look in the mirror.

[smoogatz]

7. Good points, though it's hard to put Koresh in the smae class

as McVeigh. Koresh was just preaching Revelation, stockpiling weapons and having sex with fourteen-year-old girls--every fundie whacko's wet-dream.

[Oceansaway]

4. K&R

:kick:

[HereSince1628]

5. I'd LOVE to see a 60 minutes that re-creates/demonstrates torture

practices used and advocated by this administration. I am sure an English language version of this is coming. If not from the US then from media in France, Germany or England.

The American people need a lot more than the intellectual concept they generate by reading words intended to soften the reality.

The only way for the entire nation NOT to bear the backlash such revelations will reveal is to expose it ourselves.

[hedda_foil]

6. This may be John Dean's best!!!

Check out his conclusion!

Since Dick Cheney is so keen on torture, maybe he will give the nation a demonstration of waterboarding, which he does not seem to believe is cruel, inhumane, or degrading. No doubt he could be given a ticking clock to keep with him under water as well.

[rodeodance]

8. it is good--makes bush/cheney look likes the asses they are!

[rodeodance]

9. good part ----The "Ticking Bomb" Argument For Torture

.....The "Ticking Bomb" Argument For Torture

The argument goes like this: A nuclear bomb has been planted in the heart of a major American city, and authorities have in custody a person who knows where it is located. To save possibly millions of lives, would it not be justified to torture this individual to get the information? Is not this lesser evil justified?

Of course it is. And this argument is a wonderful means to comfort those who have moral problems with torture. The beauty of this argument is that once you concede there are circumstances were torture might be justified, morally and legally (through what criminal law calls the defense of necessity: that an act is justified to save lives), you are on the other side of the line. You've joined the torture crowd.

Those who've invoked the argument range from Alan Dershowitz, to the Israeli Supreme Court, to the Schlesinger Report on Abu Ghraib, to the Robb/Silberman Pre-Iraq War Intelligence Report.

Most recently, and eloquently, the argument was set forth in the pages of The Weekly Standard, by Charles Krauthammer. His powerful essay, "The Truth about Torture: It's time to be honest about doing terrible things," received wide circulation on the internet.

With all these great minds, and moral authorities, relying on this argument, it is with some trepidation that I point out that it is phony. I do so for a number of very real reasons.

.....continues with the "Fallacies In The "Ticking Bomb" Argument -- The Clock Does Not Work"

[electropop]

10. One little flaw in the argument...

Torture will not get the information you need. The victim will say whatever you want to hear, but very likely not the truth. It's been demonstrated time and again that torture, in addition to being evil, is ineffective.