Alabama faces recount over segregationist laws

[JI7]

<CNN) -- A proposed amendment that would remove long-unenforced segregationist provisions from the Alabama Constitution trailed by a razor-thin margin Thursday and faces a recount.

Amendment 2 would remove language that provides for separate-but-equal schools for whites and blacks, authorizes poll taxes and specifies in a 1956 amendment that Alabamians have no constitutional right to public education.

That 1956 amendment was at the center of the opposition to Amendment 2. Critics argued that repealing the old amendment would lead to higher school taxes.

Gov. Bob Riley, who supported the measure, said Wednesday the outcome was too close to call.

The measure was opposed by former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, who was removed from the bench for defying a court order to remove a stone tablet of the Ten Commandments from the state judicial building.>

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/04/alabama.segregation/

[freetobegay]

1. Why does this not surprise me?

[vajraroshana]

2. here's the wording of the amendment as it appeared on the ballot

“Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of Alabama of 1901, to repeal portions of Section 256 and Amendment 111 relating to separation of schools by race and repeal portions of Amendment 111 concerning constitutional construction against the right to education, and to repeal Section 259, Amendment 90, and Amendment 109 relating to the poll tax.”


As you can see there's a phrase relating to the "poll tax". That freaked people out. Roy Moore said it was a backdoor attempt at getting more taxes. That was a lie, and as you know Roy Moore's words are carved in stone in Alabama; he's the de facto reincarnation of Moses for these people.

In fact both of these things mentioned in this amendment are already illegal anyway. Poll taxes are illegal, so is racial segregation of schools.

[Dhalgren]

3. The huge majority of people in Alabama

are simply too stupid to understand anything that isn't explained to them by their preacher. They are told how to vote at church and then obey like trained dogs at the polls. It is sickening and irreversible...

[Sara Beverley]

5. And just like in the "old south" the churches are the hot bed of racism!!

Beleive it!!

"The man who doesn't read has no advantage over the man who can't."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. Interesting comment considering the fact that Gov. Riley stated that....

...the voting was "too close to call" because of a "razor-thin" vote margin.

Any rational person not blinded by hatred of anything living in the South would probably come to the realization that almost half of the voters either don't receive their so-called obediance training at church, or don't attend the same churches as the Fundies, or just don't attend church.

Have you ever been to Alabama, or have you had the opportunity to travel through the state? I moved here in 1990 from Virginia, the in which I was born, and wouldn't return to Virginia for any reason other than for short periods for my genealogical studies. I am considered to be a liberal Democrat by my friends here in Alabama (Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, white, black, hispanic, as well as gay), married a lovely woman who grew up in Alabama (my best man is black), and although I don't attend church, my wife and kids do and they've never had to attend obediance training. Nor do I find them to be "stupid" in any sense of the word.

What if I made a statement along the lines that I find that the vast majority of people living outside the South are "simply too stupid to understand anything" that doesn't meet their preconceived notions of the South and the people living there? How would that make YOU feel?

[Dhalgren]

8. I am a native Alabamian.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. That makes your comment all the more interesting, IMHO.

[Dhalgren]

13. It makes the statement backed-up with

50 years of living and fighting here. Your opinion is your opinion, based on whatever your experience is. So is mine...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Okay...my personal experience covers 53 years of living in the South...

...except for the 5 years I spent on active military duty.

I doubt seriously that our experiences are as different as you seem to be implying. But, as you say, that's your opinion...

[Dhalgren]

19. I am talking Alabama - not "the South".

You need to come to grips with the fact that most of the south is socially indefensible. I wish that we had a much larger population of progressives or liberals, but we don't. We are largely populated by right-wing reactionaries who really would like to turn back the clock to, oh say, 1859 or so. My experience with the rampant stupidity in Alabama does not make me stop longing for a more enlightened populas, but it does make it easier for me to tell it as I see it. I am a Southerner, born from a clan of hillbillies that would scare most of the cast of "Deliverence"; I know that people can pull themselves up out of that, I just wish more would.

[JDPriestly]

31. Lived and went to high school in Alabama

Stupid: "to be benumbed, be astonished . . . slow of mind . . . obtuse . . . given to unintelligent decisions or acts; acting in an unintelligent or careless manner . . . lacking intelligence or reason . . .brutish . . .dulled in feeling or senations; torpid . . . marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting; senseless . . . lacking interest or point . . . vexatious, exasperating"

We're all judged by our actions. Alabamans voted to keep unenforceable, obsolete segregation laws on their books. That's not just a bad act; it's an unintelligent, careless, brutish and unreasoned act. In other words, it's a stupid act.

[gavodotcom]

4. Alabama should face a giant meteor over segregationalist laws.

[underpants]

6. Hello Alabama!!! 21st Century here-This was even close?

Good lord.

[RPM]

9. Fucking Biggots

Too bad we don't have a president who would send troops there to bring freedom and democracy (and education) to their backward asses

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. In that case, you'd have to send troops to every state in the Union.

[QC]

24. I will try to resist the irony of pointing out that

your complaint about other people's ignorance is misspelled.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. I bet most of you folks know nothing about the history of the KKK....

...but since we're talking about racism, here's a good site with an interesting excerpt:

<http://www.africanaonline.com/orga_ku_klux_klan_knights.htm>

"Until 1920 the society exercised little influence. Then, in the period of economic dislocation and political and social unrest that followed World War I, the Ku Klux Klan expanded rapidly in urban areas, and expanded beyond the South.

The Ku Klux Klan of the 1920s was active in many states, notably Colorado, Oregon, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. Although the defense of white supremacy remained a core issue for the Ku Klux Klan, it focused its attack on what it considered to be alien outsiders, particularly the Roman Catholic Church, which it believed was threatening traditional American ways and values. All non-Protestants, aliens, liberals, trade unionists, and striking workers were denounced as subversives."

I find it interesting that states like Colorado, Oregon, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey were considered to be "notably" active. Those are certainly states not normally included in discussions about racism.

But the article also left out such states as Tennessee (the actual birthplace of the KKK), Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, and other western states besides Colorado and Oregon. Parts of New England have also not been immune to the lure of the KKK.

[Dhalgren]

14. Listing a dozen states that may also be racist

does not make Alabama less so. The Alabama seems to be singled out, here, is because it is the subject of the thread. I have lived here my whole life and my experience is that there are many fine people here, but the majority of people, here (and maybe nation-wide) are backward and so right-wing that they constantly fly in circles.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. Did I say that it made Alabama less racist? No, I didn't, did I....

...but I am stating for the record that there are several states outside the South that are just as racist as Alabama. Racism is not just a "Southern thing".

[underpants]

15. Indiana had the highest Klan membership of any state ever

Back in the 50's or at least that is what my stepfather told me.

[xxqqqzme]

26. A governor of Indiana

was a 'proud 'n loud' leader of the kkk...I think in the late 20s early 30s. He was brought down by, I believe under-age sex scandal - he went 2 prison. I knew his name once....must have deleted it.

[Catfight]

16. This just makes me giggle...n/t

[itzamirakul]

20. WHY, CATFIGHT?RACISM IS NOT FUNNY UNLESS I MISUNDERSTOOD YOU

I'm not sure that I understand what it is about this topic that makes you giggle. Let me in on the joke.

I sure wish that Democrats would address the fact that that red swath we saw spread out across the middle of America is based on RACISM , not abortion, not gay rights, not morals, not war. If there is any fear, it is the fear that Rush Limbaugh has spread with his racist rantings that have convinced the whites in these states that somehow black people are ALL receiving enormous sums of government money through welfare payments. His favorite term is "blacks whining." Read Republican posts on other message boards and they are all saying blacks should "get a job," or "blacks are lazy," as though every single black person in America was on the dole.

The sad thing is that welfare has been painted with a black face. See any commercial or public service ad and when they talk about the "poor" there is always a black face on the screen. Yet what no one will acknowledge is that there are far more white people receiving welfare and food stamps than there are blacks. Now Bush plans to move these programs from government control to the churches under faith-based initiatives. The churches will then have the right to determine just WHO deserves charitable assistance and how much they will receive. This is back-door racism. I wonder if the recipients will have to sign a loyalty oath the same way Bush supporters signed one to get into his rallies?

[Catfight]

21. Because it's so absurd that it's even an issue...how can people be

so stupid, you need a recount for racism?

[itzamirakul]

25. OK, but it is stupid to US...

...but not to them because they are dyed-in -the- wool RACISTS. We are talking about hate groups, white supremacists, etc who have been gorged in bias by daily feedings from people like Rush so that now they feel that they can publicly proclaim their opposition to equal rights for all. This is the way they can show their extreme anger over not having the Confederate flag fly from the top of government buildings. (Watch Bush relax THAT ruling.)

[Catfight]

I know, but as long as the FCC allows hate propaganda to fill the airwaves

and TV you'll have this racist mindset. You know what blows my mind...John Lennon gets shot for talking about peace and Rush gets rich for preaching hate. It doesn't make sense.

[itzamirakul]

32. That's why we are going to target Rush's sponsors for boycott

It is time for a concerted effort at the sponsors of some of these hate sites. Rush, almost by himself preached racial hatred so long and so hard that the end result was the wide swath of red states we saw on election night.

Those people were not voting for family or moral values, nor against abortion, nor against gay rights nor the war, they were voting RACISM pure and simple and the sooner we wake up and take a stand and call them on it, the quicker we will bring the volume down some - note that I did not say "end" it because I don't think that will ever be possible - freedom of speech is something we all have a right to, but the level of hatred that Rush has churned up in this country has spawned dozens of imitators and that kind of sickness grows like cancer.

[Catfight]

28. I know, but as long as the FCC allows hate propaganda to fill the airwaves

and TV you'll have this racist mindset. You know what blows my mind...John Lennon gets shot for talking about peace and Rush gets rich for preaching hate. It doesn't make sense.

[VegasWolf]

22. I guess they want to make black people carry the 10 commandmnets

statue back into the court house.

[sonicx]

23. The people who voted against it...

Fuck Them.

[NorthernSpy]

27. these are the 'good home folks' we're supposed to be pandering to?

Quit subsidizing the red states! Let 'em pay their own taxes!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/151749/966

[QC]

29. If we're through playing yet another round of Let's Pile on the Hayseeds,

I'll tell what happened on the ground. I know it's not as much fun as lording our superiority over the Great Unwashed, but hey, sometimes the facts can be interesting.

The business interests in Alabama are very powerful, and nothing else matters as much to them as holding taxes down. They have very deep pockets, and they went after this amendment hammer and tong, claiming that establishing a constitutional right to a state-funded education would permit judges unilaterally to raise taxes in order to equalize funding between districts.

Apparently a lot of people believed it, and working-class Alabamians are heavily taxed as it is (this has to do with the very regressive mix of sales and property taxes there), so anything identified with higher taxes has no chance of passing.

[Blue_Tires]

30. having spent much of my childhood there

(tuskegee), I'd expect nothing less

[Lisa]

33. a very moving op-ed from the Anniston Star

Forwarded to me by a friend in Gadsden (who proudly voted for Kerry knowing that she was outnumbered -- and still, is horrified by the outcome on Tuesday). The thing is -- you can replace the name "Alabama" with that of any other state ... or, yes, Canadian province ... and it would still be true.


"Many of us today are used to better things. God has blessed us so richly. I look at us and I am ashamed.

Ashamed of our failure to use our blessings to improve the lives of our fellow Alabamians.

Ashamed that we have become insensitive to our escalating criminal population, to the over-crowding of our prisons and jails and to the accompanying problems of understaffing. Seemingly safe with our burglar bars and security systems and even gated conclaves, we have failed to provide leadership in combating the twin causes of criminal activity — poverty and lack of education."

http://www.annistonstar.com/opinion/2004/as-insight-1010-0-4j08r2233.htm

[snippy]

34. How very republican. This is not about Alabama or the South, it is

about the republican party. Every person in every state that votes republican empowers and condones the republicans who fought and voted to retain these provisions of the Alabama Constitution. Every republican in every state needs to be told that this is what their party stands for.