WP: Dems Aim to Organize Union Vote ("If lose job, can't eat your gun.")

[DeepModem Mom]

Democrats Aim to Organize the Union Vote
Labor Leaders Predict Record Turnout as They Rally Members for Kerry in Battleground States

By Vanessa Williams
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 23, 2004; Page A08

BETHELHEM, Pa. -- When union members give him grief about Democrats being soft on the Second Amendment, Bill Dorward, an organizer for the United Steelworkers of America, fires back: "If you lose your job, you can't eat your gun."

Dorward has not had to give that response much this election season. Three years of job losses and other economic setbacks have stoked political passions among union-represented workers, and leaders of the nation's largest labor organizations are forecasting a record turnout among members and their families.

"People are fed up with the economy," Dorward said. He also said members have been alarmed at how quickly jobs, health care and the stock market, which affects many pension plans, have eroded during President Bush's term. "This is the worst president in the history of the United States, and people are starting to realize it."

Since rallying behind John F. Kerry after the Massachusetts senator took the lead in the Democratic primaries last winter, labor unions have committed huge amounts of money and legions of foot soldiers to help him defeat Bush. Much of the focus has been in midwestern battleground states, where industrial unions boast large memberships....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55603-2004Oct22.html?sub=AR

[western mass]

1. Sorry, it's a dumb slogan.

Seems to imply that you have to choose "your gun" or "your job," because Dems won't let you have both. That "dems want to take away all of your guns" is a lie and a slander, and this slogan implicitly buys into that by myth. I'm sure the guy means well, but this isn't the way to go...

[smirkymonkey]

2. I think he's trying to question their priorities.

Something that has always baffled me with single issue voters (pro-gun, pro-life, et al.) is that they will risk foregoing the things that will have an actual, real impact on their lives in favor of their pet cause, which usually has very little bearing on thier daily existence.

[lakemonster11]

39. I was thinking about that yesterday.

I was thinking about the crazy mixed-up priorities some people have, and this sentence popped into my head:

"Of course it would suck if your son was drafted and killed in Iraq, but it wouldn't be *life-changing* like if that girl in the next town who was raped by her cousin got an abortion or if your daughter's history teacher married his boyfriend."

[Krupskaya]

4. I disagree.

It goes over very well with a lot of non-political gun-carrying union trades-workers. And there are a LOT of those. What we always say is "If you lose your job, you can't afford a gun," but I like this one better. To me it implies that you can have both. This is the tact that party MUST take before it loses the trades forever.

[debatepro]

5. republican logic

way to point out what the enemy would say.

[Bandit]

13. It isn't a slogan it is a comeback

When someone says they are voting only because of gun issues it is a comeback to that. You will not hear it as a slogan anywhere.

[cubsfan forever]

31. You are absolutely correct!

Coming from a VERY strong union family, I say: folks, settle down. It was in response to hardworking Americans (who have been smugly used and forgotten by the repugs): they understand plain speech. The union organizer is breaking his hump for our cause.
Let him do what he needs to do to get the job done.

Professor 2

[w4rma]

15. I agree. This slogan is awful. It offers folks who have been told that

Dems will take their guns no reason to believe otherwise.

[SemperEadem]

26. you miss the point

what he's saying is that while they're so busy protecting their right to own guns by believing that Bush will 'honor' that, Bush has hoodwinked them and their priorities when he sent their jobs overseas---and all the noise that they're making about the second amendment is non sequitur to the issue: you can't eat your gun when your family is hungry because your job went overseas and you have no money to buy groceries or pay rent or pay for medicine.

That gun doesn't roast up like a turkey.

[d_b]

28. Agree 100%. Been telling that to conservatives for years.

[Tight_rope]

47. Sounds GREAT to me....U & your gun living in the car because u have no job

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. well you know what they say

you can't eat your gun but you can bite the bullet.

(please don't hurt me)

:D

[Maeve]

7. Actually, the term "eat your gun" exists in one context

It's better known as "suicide".

Maeve, who watched tooo many cop shows in years past...

[colonel odis]

6. i think it's a great line that puts into perspective the stupidity

of the short penis, nra crowd.

[hansolsen]

8. Wrong. It illustrates the stupidity of the gun control nuts in Dem

politics who have cost our Party millions of lost votes while selling tens of millions of new guns to non hunters.

Gun control laws have been a disaster for America and a worse disaster for the Democratic Party. The fact that Kerry needs to spend precious political capital this late in the campaign to defuse this issue illustrates how costly gun control has been.

Gun control is just a bunch of useless feel good legislation that doesn't work and cannot work. The sooner this Party disavows this misguided initiative the better.

[w4rma]

16. Well said, hansolsen. It's **the** issue that Repugs use to paint

Dems as totalitarian, while nothing could be further from the truth on all other policy.

[colonel odis]

24. actually, i'm not "wrong." since i was just stating my opinion.

now go play with your toys and compensate.

[saigon68]

37. Good Comment

Millions of votes lost for useless feel good legislation.

850,000 deer hunters in my state. At least 100,000 of them vote Repuke solely because they thought Al Gore would take their guns.

This state should be straight Dem-- Instead a bunch of pantie waists want to disarm the working man.

We may need these guns later on ---and yet some idiot gun control morans helped Bush be selected the last time.

[hansolsen]

42. Thanks for your support on this issue. This is a real long term problem

that must be cleaned up if Dems are ever going to have a working majority in Congress.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hansolsen]

40. If Karl Rove turned your original post, refering to the "short penis, NRA"

crowd, into a billboard on every highway in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, and successfully linked your comments to the Kerry campaign, Bush would carry all five states by at least ten points.

Your garbage thinking is exactly what kerry is trying to overcome when he goes goose hunting in Ohio. If you want to help us win this election, you'll stow the bashing of gun owners, hunters, and NRA members -- that thinking is hurting our chances of winning this election.

[colonel odis]

44. "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! that awful old thinking is

going to cost us the election! waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!! if karl rove put that on a billboard and said we said it we'd lose the election!!"

sorry if you don't like the way i think. trust me, it's mutual.

[hansolsen]

45. When this election is over, win or lose, there will still be a war on for

the soul of the Democratic Party. As a soldier in that war I will do everything I can to defang the gun control, anti-hunting, pro PETA wing of the Party. I expect our paths will cross again.

[colonel odis]

48. excuse me while i piss my pants at the thought

of our paths crossing again.

sorry about your short penis, though.

[sandnsea]

30. And you'll always be able to

So why buy into the gun-grabbing garbage when nobody of any import has ever suggested taking away all guns. The NRA rhetoric is tantamount to the auto industry calling MADD "car-grabbers" because they want to keep cars out of the hands of drunks.

[hansolsen]

41. Gun control advocates have suggested "registering" all guns, and

many people think that is the first step that would enable futrue gun control advocates to take away all guns, as has happened throughout Europe.

This fear is very real, very rational, and very important. Democrats who fail to understand the dark side of the gun control argument are a clear and present danger to the election of John Kerry.

[ohtransplant]

10. Speaking as a union member,

it's plain this is a false premise brought to you by the NRA.

For those with the capacity for critical thought...

1) Kerry has already expressed his full support for the second amendment.

2) Kerry is an experienced hunter himself.

3) The reality is Congress would not pass anything endangering the second amendment.

4) Assault (fully automatic) weapons are for hunting people.


UNIONS...The people who brought you the weekend!!!

[Oak2004]

11. Do you understand why the assault weapons ban energized the NRA

as never before?

Fully automatic weapons were effectively banned in 1935 (the law allowed persons to apply for a very expensive, highly screened federal permit if a state allowed possession, which had the effect of restricting fully automatic weapons to a very few wealthy collectors and the occasional WWII reenactment group).

The recent "assault weapons" ban did not ban fully automatic weapons. It went after the semiautomatic weapons that have been used for hunting for over a century. That ban actually made my squirrel gun -- my dinky little .22 squirrel gun -- a banned weapon, because it had a 15 round magazine and a folding stock. And it came inches away from banning a number of extremely popular hunting rifles.

That's why the NRA went from losing members every year to nearly doubling its membership almost overnight. That's when I became a life member. That was the beginnings of how the NRA went from being a nonpartisan interest group to being a captive of the far right.

And that's why Democrats lost millions of votes. They keep those votes lost, too, everytime they demonstrate that they still don't know the difference between a machine gun and a squirrel gun.

[ohtransplant]

14. I believe I do understand.

The tactic the NRA is using is as old as the hills. Divide and conquer. It's framed as if union members must choose between their jobs and their guns. As a long time union member, I'm here to tell you it's a false choice. Both goals are fully attainable!!! We're voting for a POTUS, not a king.

Is there no room for a measured response on this issue? Will we willingly walk in to the quagmire they've set for us?

By the way, do you really need a 15 round magazine to hunt squirrels? I mean that question seriously. I would try to be funny if this weren't such a sensitive topic.

[w4rma]

17. No, ohtransplant, you don't understand. (nt)

[ohtransplant]

19. Please enlighten me.

[w4rma]

20. Look at what Oak2004 posted. The laws don't work.

Folks in the NRA *are* honestly worried about their gun rights and the Repugs (who, btw, have used this to take over the leadership positions in the NRA) are more than happy to egg them on into believing that Dems will take away their guns which they use for hunting *and* for personal protection way out in rural areas where police stations are far away.

[ohtransplant]

22. I haven't seen the analysis

you refer to that shows that laws don't work. Scary thought for this country...

I've merely taken the position that as a union member ( and a gun owner btw), the NRA exploits an irrational fear (among union members)that dems are somehow lurking, just waiting for the opportunity to snatch their guns.

Plainly it won't happen. It's that simple.

[saigon68]

38. In my state THERE ARE 850,000 deer hunters

During deer season there are more armed women and men in the woods of Wisconsin than were ever in Viet-Nam.

Hundreds of thousands of them who should and did vote straight democrat, have been led by EVIL RIGHT WING MAGICIANS LIKE ROVE !!!!!to believe that a coterie of far left democratic panty-waists like Al Gore are out to take their squirrel rifles away. and to totally ban and jail them if they are caught with any semiautomatic deer rifle or shotgun like a Remington model 1100

[flygal]

46. Yep - a lot are socially liberal and never spent a day in church, but...

Dems are going to take away their guns!! I actually know a couple of hunters who think nra is over the top, but to join certain shooting clubs you have to belong - it's the law! :eyes:

[Krupskaya]

12. I'll clarify...

What I think is the right tact is "Bush will take away your union (or job) before Kerry ever takes away your gun."

Keep your guns! We need guns! But don't be voting against Kerry because you think you'll never get to go hunting AGAIN (yeah right, here in MN).

[w4rma]

18. THAT is a MUCH better slogan, imho.

And, I'd like to make an addtion to your explanation. Guns are also important for personal protection. I cringe a bit, whenever I see an explanation that focuses only on hunting rights.

Remember that folks way out in rural areas are far away from police stations and the fast response that might help protect them from invaders.

[Krupskaya]

23. Point taken.

Living out in the boonies, our place sure looks like we have guns: Old farmhouse, old barn, machinery shed full of old pickups, big dog, etc. Do we? Why don't you come and find out? ;)

[prayin4rain]

21. It's funny 'cause it's true.

[PhuLoi]

27. The Carpenter's Union needs to restructure itself.

They would appear to have become overtaken by the right wing. As a union member my tolerance for republican union members has disappeared entirely. I have arrived at the point where I feel any member that actively supports the right wing should be thrown out of the union. They are parasites.

[Krupskaya]

35. Hear, hear!

* and McCarron are huge, huge buddies. That whole ULICO thing is a debacle. And the union's problems aren't going to be solved by restructuring -- it's gonna take a full-scale internal revolution.

[VegasWolf]

29. Seriously, is this the best slogan they can come up with? It's

ambiguous to me, I can read it both ways.
We should craft a clear, unambiguous slogan for them,
like "Vote for Bush and send your job to Russia!", and
get it to them asap.

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional

[cubsfan forever]

32. See post #13

It's NOT a slogan.

Professor 2

[VegasWolf]

33. Right, let's all use comebacks for our campaign literature. I

reiterate, they need a better slogan.

New Information Shows Bush Indecisive, Paranoid, Delusional

[cubsfan forever]

36. Whatever

Professor 2

[meow2u3]

34. He forgot to mention....

that if you lose your job, you just might have to lose your guns, too--by being forced to sell them just to pay your bills.

In other words, for hunters, it's both or neither.

[CANDO]

43. Central Pennsylvania Teamsters-- Serious right-wingers

I went round and round just this morning with several of them. Some even go so far as to say they are ashamed of being Teamsters because they give most of their political contributions to the Democrats. Folks, there are serious problems in the the state of PA in trying to keep union voters at home with the Democrats. God, guns, and gays have captured their votes for the GOP. It is sickening to behold.