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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:02 PM
Original message
Rookie In Command Of National Mil. Command Ops Center On 9/11
Nat. Military Command Center ops director asked newly-qualified substitute on Sept. 10 to stand his watch at 8:30 am on Sept. 11

by UnansweredQuestions.Org Co-Founder Tom Flocco


For Full Story See
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=art...

WASHINGTON -- June 17, 2004 Posted 11:45 pm -- Tom Flocco.com -- According to the personal written statement of Navy Captain Charles J. Leidig, Jr., entered into the record during todays hearings before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Leidig revealed that on September 10 he was asked by Brigadier General Montague Winfield to stand a portion of his duty as Deputy Director for Operations for the National Military Command Center (NMCC), which would require supervision and operation of all necessary communications as watch commander.

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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. really bad luck/timing....eom
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Maybe a rookie wouldn't have been put in charge had BushCo paid attention
to the many many warnings pointing at the 911 date.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. but sometimes
you have to make your own luck.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Is this your sarcasm?..................It ain't no coincidence.
This is earth shattering!!!!

To think America planned to attack America.

Absolutely appalling!!!!

We should absolutely not stand for this!!!

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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is anyone buying this crap?
I wanna throw up in disgust.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. I have been angry for 3 years now..........NOW I'm pissed!!!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. See post #1.
NT!

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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Much as I hate to say it - this supports LIHOP
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yup.
LIHOP is the only alternative to widespread gross incompetence and a "coincidence theory" that every incompetent chose that day to make most of their errors.
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ChompySnack Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sorry, not credible
Tom Flocco makes some pretty outlandish claims on his website. I wouldn't trust anything he says until it is also referenced by at least one other solid source.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'll bite:
what "outlandish claims"?
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. In this case it is referenced by the 911 commmission evidence...
This is a strait news story Chompy.... not a lot of conjecture involved. Simply the facts... the commander of the NMCC stood down at 8.30am on 911 in favour of his newly qualified junior... and then reassumed control in the military nerve center at 10am after flight 93 crashed.

It's not rocket science...

Just smelly as hell..
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Some people still see the world as flat.
Don't even bother talking to ignorance.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Keep researching......you gotta a ways.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Randi Rhodes was talking about this yesterday...
it was very interesting! The guy who was supposed to be there that day asked this rookie to fill in for him that day and then shows up later and takes over again. I don't wear tinfoil well but, geez, the anomalies that occured that day sure make me want to fashion a tinfoil hat.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. When combined with the fact that NO FLAG OFFICERS were among ...
... the casualties at the Pentagon, we have a very bizarre "coincidence."
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. army deputy chief of staff for personnel (DCSPERS)
Edited on Fri Jun-18-04 06:23 PM by Insider
he died later from injuries received that day

--snip--
On 20 September 2001, the Defense Department confirmed that Lieutenant General Timothy J. Maude was among those killed in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

General Maude was laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery on Saturday, 6 October 2001.

September 22, 2001
Courtesy of the New York Times
Lieutenant General Timothy L. Maude, 53, an Army Deputy Chief of Staff

--snip--
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/tjmaude.htm

edit:
3-star = lieutenant general, one star short of the tp of the line.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. The plane hit the side of the Pentagon that was being renovated. (nt)
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Now these thugs don't want to look too bad killing that many people.
nauseating!!!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Educate me......no flaged officers?
What's this about?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. A "flag officer" is ...
... a full Colonel or above (Captain or above in Navy rank) and is so-called because they rate a flag of rank - on their vehicles and, depending on other considerations, where they reside.

Based on the rosters of those killed, I concluded no flag officers (senior military) were killed. As noted above, a casualty that later became a death makes that one flag officer killed.

I have always (since 9/11) been somewhat interested in the demographics of the 9/11 victims. Very, very few children. Eight (out of nearly 3,000 killed), I think. No administration officials - but Barbara Olson, who made an 11th hour change of her itinerary was killed. No CEOs or COOs or COBs, that I know of, on either the flights or in the towers. It has always seemed somewhat remarkable that the demographics was so narrowly middle-class and no apparent members of the "BFEE."
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Hey thanks. Never knew this. Did yah read Al Franken's book?.....
Funny thing that he gotta call from Ed Koch(former NY Mayor)not to work that day.
And he didn't.

This should enhance you demographics.

Those are interesting stats........
Someone didn't want the responsibility of killing 15,000...
so I guess 3000 + was better, eh?

Sorry.....my sarcasm overwhelms me.
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. flag officers = generals, admirals
most senior military ranks. i think he meant more mid-level to junior-level people were killed. no generals or admirals and such.

if that's what you meant.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Thanks........how convenient.
Could mihop be justified through all these coincidences?

Hmmmmm.....always wondering.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Do "how convenient" and "now isn't that special" come to mind?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Which coincidence number are we at now?
- There just happened to be a NORAD exercises about hijacking that day.
- They just happened to have had a rookie on this watch, who was just unexpectedly assigned it the day before.
- Rummy just happened to change the rules about engaging aircraft, so that only he could give a shoot-down order, a couple months earlier.
- A bunch of bigshots just happened to be away from the WTC that day, at charity event at an airforce base that Bush visited late that afternoon, after flying around stupidly in Air Force One.
- Someone just happened to play the market ("puts") on the aircraft companies involved a few hours before the strikes.

etc.

This gets wearisome.

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Just received by email...
Not only was a 'rookie' (someone new in the job) in charge
of the Pentagon's National Military Command Center beginning
at 8:30 a.m. on the morning of 9/11 (below article), but the
FAA's Hijack Coordinator was on his FIRST day on the job, and,
on top of it, in a 'game' chair 'playing' NORAD's "Vigilant
Guardian/Warrior" exercise that morning WITH NORAD's Gen. Arnold,
who had to authorize real interceptors. According to some
press versions, John O'Neill, the FBI's former top bin Laden/
Al Qaeda hunter, was on his FIRST day on the job as head of security
at the World Trade Center. And FBI Director Mueller had only been
on the job about a week, having been just before then No. 2 to Ashcroft.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Sliney, a former NYC lawyer
who sued the FAA, was on his first day at FAA's Herndon ATC. He's the guy who was on his first day.

The Hijack Coordinator was somebody in the FAA HQ in DC. That's the person who clearly did nothing and was ultimately responsible for contacting NORAD to scramble fighters and so on. All the planes are down before NORAD hears from FAA HQ directly.

NORAD was only contacted by FAA regional centers doing a "end run" (if I can borrow FBI 9/11 lingo) around FAA HQ. New York, Cleveland, and especially Boston (first) did that, and did that quickly.

Because FAA HQ was doing nothing from their bunker, Sliney was essentially in charge in Herndon.

No link. This is what I have been putting together from yesterday's report and especially a couple of Aviation Week articles I've been quoting for 3 yrs.

I'm trying to get some sort of list of staff for FAA HQ on 9/11. The "oh God" transcript noted the disappearance of someone named Jeff yesterday--like to know who that was.

But this bit with first days, and some sort of coverup, at least by omission, is a big tell.

What do they say: "Oh, sorry I let 9/11 happen, it was my first day"

Sliney testified yesterday--going to read that shortly.

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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. Could they really be that dumb?
""Oh, sorry I let 9/11 happen, it was my first day"

Just too funny.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Psychopath's footprints look similar, sherlock.
"According to some
press versions, John O'Neill, the FBI's former top bin Laden/
Al Qaeda hunter, was on his FIRST day on the job as head of security
at the World Trade Center." (your quote)

Great analysis......

Follow them and you will find the truth.

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. CNN Transcript, 9/7/2002
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): September 11 began as a routine day inside the National Military Command Center. The world appeared quiet -- then the world changed.

GEN. MONTAGUE WINFIELD, NATIONAL MILITARY COMMAND CENTER: We realized that the seemingly unrelated hijackings that the FAA was tracking were actually a part of a coordinated terrorist attack against the United States.

STARR: Brigadier General Montague Winfield was in command of the military's worldwide nerve center that morning, the center's logbook a record of the opening moments of the war: 8:48, first plane hits the World Trade Center; 9:02, second explosion at the World Trade Center; at 9:38, American Airlines Flight 77 slams into the Pentagon.

The Command Center is on the other side of the massive building. Winfield and his staff never feel the impact. They see the flames on television as alarms go off inside. Smoke soon reaches the Command Center. Still, the Command Center remains icy calm. Winfield is running a secure phone call with the White House, the FAA, and the North American Air Defense Command, NORAD.

more there:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/07/nac.00.html

Winfield later says he was there (at least when 77 crashed) and in command. CNN implies he was there the whole time, and certainly he doesn't correct that (ABC has roughly the same thing).

Here's Leidig's statement:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/leidig...

I don't think the contents of the Air Threat Conference are public, so you can't tell when he was relieved exactly. But that Conference started at 9:37 according to the staff report, a minute before the Pentagon was hit.





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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. From Tom Flocco's story...
Interestingly, Leidig had also told Lehman and Roemer that Winfield relieved him and reassumed his duties as Deputy Director for Operations for the NMCC just before United Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania and the attacks were over, which would have been around 10:00 am, during what had become an Air Threat phone conference.

***

Just looking for the transcript...
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It's here... just looking for the relevant bit...
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Ok... here is the reference.... Tom Flocco seems to have this right..
surprise surprise CNN and ABC are wrong..

Now, I want to turn to one other area where there has been some misconception.

BEN-VENISTE: And perhaps I can start with Admiral Leidig.

In this regard, you were a participant on the air threat conference call?

LEIDIG: Yes, sir.

BEN-VENISTE: And you recall at some point -- we have it at 10:37 -- that the vice president of the United States reported on that call that there was an anonymous threat against Air Force One using the then code name Angel; that it was to be the next target. Do you recall that, sir?

LEIDIG: Sir, I think that occurred right after I was relieved on the watch by General Winfield (ph). I -- right after we resolved what was going on with United 93, around that time, General Winfield (ph) took over.

So I'm familiar because I've looked at the transcript, but I wasn't on the conference at that time.

*******

I.E. he was relieved after flight 93 crashed... just as Tom reported...




*******

On another subject...


Earlier on there is also this bit about the excercise and whether it interfered...

ROEMER: General Eberhart, a question about our training posture on the day of 9/11. On page 5 of our staff statement, the FAA says at 8:38 in the morning, "High Boston Center TMU, we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed toward New York and we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there. Help us out." NIAD (ph) says, "Is this real world or an exercise?"

My question is, you were postured for an exercise against the former Soviet Union. Did that help or hurt? Did that help in terms of were more people prepared? Did you have more people ready? Were more fighters fueled with more fuel? Or did this hurt in terms of people thinking, "No, there's no possibility that this is real world; we're engaged in an exercise," and delay things? Shouldn't it have both impacts?

EBERHART: Sir, my belief is that it helped because of the manning, because of the focus, because the crews -- they have to be airborne in 15 minutes and that morning, because of the exercise, they were airborne in six or eight minutes. And so I believe that focus helped.

The situation that you're referring to, it most cost us 30 seconds, 30 seconds for...
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Interestingly.. this fact did not emerge under questioning...
.. but by accident... and then Kean promptly closed the hearing.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Kean....."d d d dddats all folks".......(lights out)
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Thanks for confirming it. That puts Gen. Montague Winfield in a lie.
He may have been there, but was not in command till it's over. And he wasn't there, 'cause he would naturally assumed command.

No context with CNN (interview or v/o), so we have a lie of omission anyway. Never corrected the record.

Take that back, there's a video that says it was an interview here:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/america.remembers/vide...

Unfortunately it is paid content, and CNN can't have my money.

Also a team player from Ari's fake story:

WINFIELD: We received some reports to make us concerned the security of air force one was in question.

He went on to get transfered to Hawaii (April 2002) to command the POW/MIA office and put up for another star which he finally got last month.



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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. WOW!!!!..........What a contemporary time line. Thanks!!!
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Interesting they all get cushy jobs
The guy who everybody thought was in charge doesn't testify, he's in Hawaii doing POW/MIA.

His junior Leidig is now Commandant of Midshipmen at the Naval Academy.

At NORAD, lead (Arnold--who laid it on thick in the hearing: "even after we saw on television the smoking hole in the World Trade Center, as tragic as it was, we did not know that that was caused by one of the hijacked airplanes") retires, his junior promoted to the new Northern (USA) Command, Posse Comitatus, the excuse for his innaction, per Myers, be damned.

Myers has his confirmation hearings 9/13....






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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. So THIS is why we had that beheading today
I was wondering about that......
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. short sidebar
yes, they regularly rotate among the services in the joint staff. but count the number of AIR FORCE and navy officers in critical positions in this admin. shinseki was not one of their boys anyway. but air force was DEFINITELY well represented. you would think they might be even slightly better prepared to respond to an air attack, even slightly.

check myers bio. he's no slouch. but you would think these guys were totally incompetent. i mean, they were present, and apparently couldn't mount the most basic slingshot defense.

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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. OBVIOUSLY A COINCIDENCE
Move along folks, nothing to see here..
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
43. another thought about this
If the Pentagon has some sort of SAMs (which I find it hard to imagine they didn't, at least from cold war spending heydays), was Cpt. Leidig our of loop?

Meanwhile the guy with the stars would be in on that, if there was such a thing, wouldn't he?

Plausible deniability if it ever came out that there was a defense--too secret for Leidig's paygrade.

Just a crazy theory, no doubt.




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