Rumsfeld Was Bypassed in 9/11 'Shoot-Down' Order

[Whoa_Nelly]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House bypassed Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in confusion during the 2001 attack on America and directly ordered U.S. fighter jets to shoot down hijacked airliners used in the strikes, the commission studying the event said on Thursday.

<snip>
Not only was Rumsfeld bypassed in the normal chain of command for such a shoot-down order, but the command from Vice President Dick Cheney that the airliners be "taken out" did not reach the fighter planes until after the last ill-fated airliner had crashed in Pennsylvania, the special commission said.

<snip>
Here is an excerpt from the conversation between Cheney and Rumsfeld:

Cheney: "There's been at least three instances here where we've had reports of aircraft approaching Washington -- a couple were confirmed hijack. And, pursuant to the president's instructions, I gave authorization for them to be taken out. Hello?"

Rumsfeld: "Yes, I understand. Who did you give that direction to?"

Cheney: "It was passed from here through the operations center at the White House, from the (shelter)."

Rumsfeld: "OK. Let me ask the question here. Has that directive been transmitted to the aircraft?"

Cheney: "Yes, it has."

Rumsfeld: "So we've got a couple of aircraft up there that have those instructions at the present time?"

more...
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5449156

[joeybee12]

1. So, Cheney MADE the decision--not Dumbo???

Wonder what the rationale for that was...oh, I know, it's called not having functioning brain cells!

[Zerex71]

47. Of course he did...

...He's the President after all, right?

Besides, Junior was too busy s**tting his pants. Totally unprepared, totally unpresidential.

[denverbill]

2. Cheney says they shot down a couple airliners? Interesting.

Cheney: "That is correct. And it's my understanding they've already taken a couple of the aircraft (hijacked airliners) out."

Personally, I'm still suspicious that the PA airliner was shot down. My understanding is that parts of it were found strewn over miles of ground. That doesn't happen with a crash. It only happens if the airplane breaks up in mid air.

[Tina H]

6. yes,

this is the one "conspiracy theory" that I have always kind of believed (obviously I can't be sure). My puzzlement here is why would the US cover up the fact that it shot the plane down.

I don't think there is any shame in shooting the plane down. If the plane was shot down I think the public had and has the right to know that.

[CaptainClark23]

9. Because "Let's Roll" had high propaganda value

The notion that brave americans took action and sacrificed themselves to avoid the death of others was the catalyst for the nationalistic fervor that the admin needed to forment.

ON EDIT: Of course the actions of the FDNY, NYPD and other emergency services in NYC also had such an impact, but those were reactive to the crisis, not proactive.

The admin needed a proactive example in order to lay the emotional grounds for pre-emptive military engagement

[Tina H]

16. Interesting fomentation theory

maybe you are right. seems like a pretty risky way to buy pr. I hope they get caught, if that is what the * admin did.

[Jazzgirl]

17. Excellent assessment Captain.

I agree with you the emotional catalyst was telling everyone how the passengers fought to intefere with the goal of the hijackers. It has certainly played well to the public. I've seen other discussions where people have stated the flight was shot down who got verbally attacked for saying it.

[Lisa]

38. "sacrifice" is quite a revealing term ... very convenient for Bush!

Interesting that Bush repeatedly spread the notion that the passengers deliberately crashed the airplane. If anything, aside from the possibility that Flight 93 was shot down (or went out of control during a struggle), the people who would crash a flight on purpose would be the HIJACKERS. The passengers were trying to save themselves.

I haven't been able to find quotes from the cell-phone calls that indicate that the passengers were going to crash the plane somewhere remote so it wouldn't kill people on the ground. They seemed to want to take back control of it, even if they felt that they might not succeed.

[Catfight]

12. the problem with the that is it would diminish the extreme jingoism

that was the whole point of rallying behind mr. Mission Accomplished, and "bring it on," and "let's roll." If we have a plane that was just shot down, we don't have American hero's bringing the plane into the ground. And what else did Bush lie to Americains about? How about, Bush knew about 9/11 and did very little to interfere with his master plan to invade Iraq as soon as he occupied the WH even though he never had the people behind him, remember, he lost the popular vote. He thought with great marketing and smoke and mirrors, America would eventually rally behind his stupidity and arrogance and revere him as a beloved president. He thought wrong, no one is going to love a president that lies, cheats, oppresses, and preaches while hiding behind his VP when things get tough. He was a chicken hawk when he was in the reserves, and he's a chicken hawk now. Throw him out now and let's take this country back. I'm ready to put this period of dark American history behind us, and hopefully the next generation will remember the importance of credible elections and the importance of checks and balances.

[dansolo]

45. What if the passengers had regained control of the plane?

With the accounts of the passengers rushing the cabin, the possibility existed that they could have shot down the plane after the passengers could have regained control. That would have been a PR disaster. Much better to float the story of the passengers bravely fighting back, but ultimately failing because of the terrorists driving the plane into the ground.

[leftofthedial]

13. it was shot down

no question

[Jazzgirl]

15. It was shot down.

That one I know from my brother who's friend was the commander that gave the shoot down order to the fighter pilots.

[recon54]

27. What's weird is that Cheney said...

.... in this 9/16/01 statement on Meet the Press:

"... It's a presidential-level decision, and the president made, I think, exactly the right call in this case, to say, I wished we'd had combat air patrol up over New York.'"

Excerpts at the end of this article (apologies for the tertiary source):

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30682

Who made the decision? I'd always thought it was Cheney

[Karenina]

44. It was shot down

Meine ficken Fresse. It's 3, count 'em THREE years later and all reports are still couched in these non-commital terms. There are enough eyewitnesses, forensic evidence and on-the-record conversations to substantiate the obvious. For the life of me I CANNOT grok the MASSIVE, TRANSPARENT dissembling. :freak:

[mondo joe]

3. Cheney gave the order? I thought only the Pres could do that.

Hmmm.

[rooboy]

4. Now you know who the president is.n/t

[papau]

7. LOL

:-)

[TahitiNut]

18. Exactly. (And it's no joke. Cheney runs things.)

DimSon The Sock Puppet is only interested in his narcissistic supply. He's so pathologically addicted he can't do anything else.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Bush was unavailable

and all radio signals were ineffective in reaching him as he hunkered down in the heavily shielded confines of Booker Elementary School.
</sarcasm>

[mom cat]

14. But seriously, they did contact him at the school. That means that

the decision on how to proceed intentionally left Bush out of the loop, as well as Rumsfeld. Why did Cheney wait so long to call for air strikes. What did he know and when did he know it?

[kerrycrat2k4]

28. I think we all know the answer to those questions....

Anything that could lead to war was looked favorably on both politically and financially for his pals at Haliburton

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. The fact that Bush lollygagged around for several hrs. with schoolkids

and with switching planes when a national emergency was going on - speaks volumes about his leadership ability and his judgement.

He was supposedly more concerned about "upsetting" 20 schoolkids than dealing with the nation being under attack and thousands of people dying (and potentially hundreds of thousands of people being killed). And, in the long run, those kids were all going to be upset and traumatized anyways. He could have been able to save people from the next 3 hijacked planes if he gave a damn and would have acted like a leader (and if he had REALLY wanted to).

When you are put in charge and are responsible for other people's lives - you need to step up to the plate and be willing to put your life in danger - if necessary. Then and ONLY then are you a hero.

If you aren't capable of being a leader - then you should quit and let someone else take over. And you most certainly SHOULD NOT go around acting like a hero. When I think about Bush going around acting like he's a hero - it makes me want to spit nails.

Of course, most of us here don't believe that whole story anyways -that he was concerned about the children and therefore didn't do anything.

If Clinton (or any of the other Presidents) had been in office and screwed up on 911 - I can't picture him going around pretending like he was some heroic figure. I think he would have felt like shit. If they would have called him a hero - he would have said "no - I'm not a hero."

When I was in charge of a psych facility and someone died at that facility - I felt like SHIT and felt like it was my fault. I kept on thinking "What could I have done better?" and I'm sure my staff felt the same way. That's what NORMAL people do.

[Lisa]

39. I think he "upset" those kids more by talking about the attacks ...

... with them in the same room, during his broadcast from the school. Why didn't he use a different room or have the teachers take the kids somewhere else? It was scary stuff, and putting those kids on TV with a bunch of tense adults was rather inconsiderate.

Besides, every parent I know is able to slide out of a gathering discreetly without hurting feelings. Even declaring "I have to go pee" would have gotten him out of that classroom in SECONDS, and the kids would have thought he was great!

[Eurobabe]

34. Bu$h has been unavailable

since birth. Elevator doesn't go to all floors.

[ladjf]

8. It was reported a couple of month ago that Rumsfield

issued an order that he was the only person who had the authority to issue and attack order. If that's true, why was he outside of the Pentagon working on the rescue efforts instead of standing by his communications links? How did it happen that Chaney was the one who finally gave the order? What was the President doing during this time and what orders did he give?

[ewagner]

21. Yep

The chain of command was apparently changed in June to give Rummy the authority to issue the order. Apparently Cheney didn't get the memo because, as the story is recounted, Cheney "recommended" to Dubya that the order to shoot down be given. Dubya agreed and Cheney issued the order, apparently sometime around 10 AM or so.

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said this morning that Rummy went "outside to lend a hand, because they needed more hands" at that time. If he was the link in the Chain of Command authorized to issue the order, why the hell did he leave his post at that critical time?

[ze_dscherman]

48. Link for that:

http://globalresearch.ca.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=891

[yellowcanine]

10. So if the PA plane was shot down, what about the 'Let's Roll" story? Is

it totally fabricated? Imagine that.

[leftynyc]

19. Couldn't they both be true?

Perhaps the passengers had begun to take over the plane, the fighter jets had no way of knowing that and just followed the orders to shoot it down.

[yellowcanine]

24. Or a convenient cover story because * was afraid of a public outcry......

We may never know...

[GingerSnaps]

25. Has anyone ever looked into the Wife's background

I don't remember seeing her shed a tear in front of the camera at any time.

[nolabels]

11. I smell a big stinking fish somewhere here

:o

[seventhson]

22. No Duh!!!

A whole fucking school of them swimming around the White House

[nolabels]

36. The nuance is just so enlightening

LOTS of others must be talking. The part about them in the denial is where they are tripping up, they are having a hard time comming up with colaborating lies to cover each other. There was a thread earlier but it relegated to the dungeon.

Try this one on for awhile
(snip)
"APPROVAL"



The need to wonder, there have been a few stories about this at DU, but I see none here on this thread, so.........

http://www.independent-media.tv/itemprint.cfm?fmedia_id=7311&fcategory...
Independent Media TV
Under Reported

May 15, 2004

(snip)
"APPROVAL"

The usage of the word "approval" is the major change here
to the existing hijacking response procedures. While the
text of the document tries to link this "approval" to the
previous orders "DODD 3025.15," the approval is now
required BEFORE providing any assistance at all.
Previously, approval would be required to respond to a
situation with lethal force.

This June 1st update to the orders stopped all military
assistance in its tracks UNTIL approval from Donald
Rumsfeld (the "Secretary of Defense") could be granted --
which, by his own admission, it was not. Rumsfeld claimed
total ignorance of the inbound aircraft that attacked the
Pentagon (on the opposite side of the building complex,
where a construction project had been underway).

In this manner, fighter planes were held up from
immediately responding to the hijacked commercial jets on
September the 11th.

The flight base commanders were ordered by the June 1st
"Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction" to wait for "approval"
from the Secretary of Defense before they could respond to
hijackings, where they would have routinely responded in
the past.
(snip)

or this

(snip)
http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/9-11list.html
THE TRUTH ABOUT SEPTEMBER 11

Section 1: Air force stand-down

It has become popular mythology in the media that fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the hijacked planes. This is completely untrue as the following research shows.
Guilty For 9-11: Bush, Rumsfeld, Myers, by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel, Nov 14, 2001.
1.1 http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-1.htm

Mr. Cheney's Cover Story -- Section 2 of Guilty For 9-11, Nov 20, 2001
1.2 http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-2.htm

9-11: Nothing Urgent, by George Szamuely, Research & Documentation by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel, Jan. 2002.
1.3 http://emperor.vwh.net/indict/urgent.htm

Planes "did scramble" on 9/11, they just "arrived late."
1.4 http://www.emperors-clothes.com/indict/faq.htm

Scrambled Messages, by George Szamuely, Dec. 12, 2001
1.5 http://www.nypress.com/14/50/taki/bunker.cfm

Air National Guard Mission and Vision statements.
1.6 http://nerdcities.com/guardian/SeptemberEleventh/ang-mission.htm

Russian Air Force chief says official 9/11 story impossible.
1.7 http://emperors-clothes.com/news/airf.htm

Use of military jets jumps since 9/11. Associated Press, Aug. 13, 2002.
1.8 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/completetimeline/2002/ap081302.html

Scrambling to prevent another 9/11, CBS News, Aug. 14, 2002.
1.9 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/14/attack/main518632.shtml

Preventing another 9/11, Military.com
1.10 http://www.military.com/NewsContent/1,13319,FL_jet_081502,00.html

Jets on High Alert, ABC News, Aug. 13, 2002.
1.11 http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/homefront020813.html

Military now notified immediately of unusual air traffic events. Fox news, Aug. 12, 2002.
1.12 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60245,00.html#top

Scrambling of fighter jets to intercept stray aircraft is a routine procedure. Here's an example of how routine it is.
Jet Sent to probe Fla. Gov. Plane. Netscape news. May 15, 2003.
1.13 Long link
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_2-T&oldflok=FF-...
/20030515/001648315.htm&sc=1110&floc=NW_2-T

The procedures were already in place before Sept. 11, 2001. It happened 67 times in the 10 months between September 2000 and June 2001.

So on Sept. 11, 2001 - Why were no fighter jets scrambled, and why has a cover up story been concocted?

In the unlikely event that the air force failed through incompetence, (not once but 4 times!) where is the major inquiry? I have seen bigger inquiries into car crashes at race tracks.
(snip)

From this thread

Could Fighter Jets Have Stopped 9/11?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x13013

[seventhson]

49. thanks - great links

nt

[daleo]

20. So, "Let's Roll" was a lie?

I seem to recall that they took the relatives of the Pennsylvania plane into a room a few months ago and let them listen to the cockpit recordings. That was supposed to verify "lets' roll", or it least that was the inference I drew from the exercise. Now, it looks like they are admitting to a shoot-down?

I suppose we will eventually get some hybrid story - "let's roll" was happening, with valiant passengers struggling for control, when the shoot-down order was executed by the unfortunate and uninformed fighter pilot. A tragedy all around, but nothing could be done.

[kittykitty]

23. Yes, it is lie! - - Altoona noon news showed a witness who said :

"I saw the other plane(s) with it." Of course, that news was never broadcast again.

Other people from the area say it was shot down. I live about 60 miles from there. It is a myth--like they tried to create with Jessica Lynch.

<edit to correct spelling>

[Braden]

37. the airfone calls from

the plane had a variety of claims about hijackers and intentions. Cleveland center ATC has a recording of a middle eastern man announcing that he has a bomb on board the plane. Is it true? Dont know. But Cheney went on Meet the press shortly after 9-11 and told Catholic Tim that ONLY the president has the authority to order such a shoot down, and that he DID NOT.

Is this phone conversation recorded? Or was the transcript based on testimony? Because thats a bombshell

[LeftHander]

26. SO this was leaked to show the Aministration did shoot

Down an airliner to prevent more casualties on the ground....

How convineient when the 911 commision finds that they could have stopped at least one of the highjacked airliners.

Sick liars. Use every tragic moment of 911 to make them selves look good.

[Cocoa]

29. Rummy and Cheney don't even MENTION Bush

I guess it was implicitly understood that he would not be involved in any real decisions.

[ElaineinIN]

31. this am's testimony

I was listening to the committee report this am with the time line. What I took away from it was that Cheney gave the shoot down order. Then someone in the room said, ummm, shouldn't we check with the president? The committee noted that Cheney was not in the chain of command, that it was bush* then rumsfield. Apparently, Cheney then gets on the phone with bush* for a minute and says, okay, President says go. They transmit the orders to military command, but the intermediate officers never rely them to the pilots, so the pilots were never told they had shoot down authority, only authority to track.

HOWEVER, at the same time, the Secret Service had contacted the white house, and another set of planes went up from a different AFB that were actually given the shoot down authority, but they never were told what they were supposed to shoot down (that is, a commercial airliner)--they weren't bried on what was going on, so that pilot told the commission that he thought that Pentagon had been hit by some kind of a missle.

That's what I heard this morning.

[ElaineinIN]

32. To finish the story...

Sorry, I should finish the story as I heard it...

Cheney gives the order so late in the process that its beyond the attacks at WTC I and II and the Pentagon. There might have been an off chance to get the Penn flight, but the Committee said it was doubtful due to the communications breakdown in actually relaying the orderts to the pilots.

As some point after the plane goes down in PA, Rummy and Cheney finally chat, when Cheney informs Rummy that the shoot down order was given, and thinks that they may already have shot down a couple--with the implication that at least Cheney thinks that PA flight might have been shot down. My personal take on the conversation that was relayed was that Rummy was a bit pissed because he was in the chain of command and Cheney wasn't, although it appeared that Cheney gave the order, at least with the nominal backing of bush*

then I went to work

[Just Me]

30. I've read through this thread four times,...

,...and I am still having trouble assimilating this information. I dunno,...I must be having a major block today.

[loudsue]

35. Nowhere in the article does it say that conversation was TAPED....

so....whose word are we taking on the fact that this conversation actually took place? And...IF it really DID take place, on what date was the tape produced?

Sorry...it just doesn't hold water. I have no doubt that Cheney WAS the guy in charge that day, to the extent that ANYBODY was in charge. And who could it possibly profit more than Cheney that the "communications broke down"?

I still believe that bush and asscrotch were well aware the attacks were going to take place.....as were the Pentagon officials who changed their flights on September 10th, when they were supposed to fly on the 11th. (Newsweek's article of 9/23/01)

So, Cheney knew WAAAY ahead of time that the shit would fly on 9/11, and he was in the control room, and "oh! silly me!" the communications got screwed up?

I'd like to sell the American public some beautiful beach-front property in Arizona.

:kick:

[jdj]

40. Richard Clarke knows the truth, and I think one day he

will spill the beans.

He has been saying this without saying it alot: he said in an interview that Cheney "was in meetings that a vice-president had never been in before" and he said that Cheney "was on the phone when we needed to make a decision about whether to shoot down a plane" . A plane. ONE plane. Flight 93 was shot down, most probably. Richard Clarke knows, he was in the situation room, and when the time is right it will come out

There was an African American woman that that '"let's roll" guy talked to, Todd Beamer, because I remember she told him her name was Lisa and he responded that his wife's name was Lisa. Was she a 9/11 operator? If so this conversation is definitely on tape somewhere, and her name is online somewhere, she was on TV telling her story about the conversation over and over, and it was she who quoted Todd Beamer and put the meme into circulation.

[jdj]

41. "Let's Roll" quote came from operator Lisa Jefferson

The first Americans who fought in the war on terrorism were brought together by chance and didn’t have much time to train for battle. Todd Beamer, Mark Bingham, Tom Burnett, Jeremy Glick, Lou Nacke, Honor Wainio, CeeCee Lyles, and Sandra Bradshaw were just a few of the passengers and crew aboard United Airlines Flight 93 bound from Newark to San Francisco. Transcripts of their phone calls and black box recordings suggest they (and possibly others) took action to prevent the plane from hitting its intended target. Todd Beamer speaking to an operator, Lisa Jefferson, advised, ''We’re going to do something. I know I’m not going to get out of this.'' Beamer asks Jefferson to recite the Lord’s Prayer with him and the last words she hears: ''Are you ready guys? Let’s roll.'' The plane would soon crash nose first into a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and those brave souls would succeed in turning the course of history. The war on terrorism began over that Pennsylvania field when extraordinary Americans proved their willingness to fight back. Todd Beamer and the others affirmed what Dorothy Bernard once said, ''Courage is fear that has said its prayers.''
http://www.starrjournal.com/commonsense/archives/000058.html


this is a puke site, sorry, it's the first one that came up, just looking for the name. Article says they have transcripts of phone calls and black box recordings. This is from 9/13/01

[sam sarrha]

42. I heard today that Rummy was busy helping the wounded at the Pentagon

that is why he couldn't be located....

[2cents]

43. a couple of DC instances taken out?

(snip)

Cheney: "There's been at least three instances here where we've had reports of aircraft approaching Washington -- a couple were confirmed hijack. And, pursuant to the president's instructions, I gave authorization for them to be taken out. Hello?"


Lends credence to the suppositions about Flight 77.


(Cheers Ewing2000, wherever you are)

[goforit]

46. But Bush IS RESPOSIBLE!!!...................................(mihop)

:argh: