Ebay bans Dawson artist's controversial (anti-Bush deck of) 'cards'

[Newsjock]

http://North.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=aug5steins-cards08052003

WHITEHORSE - A Yukon artist has been censored by eBay for making fun of the Bush administration.

Dawson City artist John Steins has been ordered off the popular auction Web site for mocking Bush and other U.S. leaders in a series of hand-painted drawings.

Steins' art project is a parody of the "most wanted" deck of playing cards issued in the Iraqi war.

... Ebay apparently banned the cards after receiving complaints from pro-Bush Americans.

Steins says he's also gotten plenty of angry emails from people who back U.S. foreign policy in Iraq.

more

[Born_a_Democrat]

1. How "American" of them to do so

I'm glad I don't buy from Ebay....


edit: I hope they get hacked beyond belief

[trapper914]

3. Ahh...

...but I bet the cards with liberals wearing French berets are still available!

[jamesinca]

68. Before everybody cancels their membership to e-Bay

complain about the Democrat cards being bought and sold on e-Bay. This does a couple of things 1) it may force the repugs to have a taste of their own medicine and 2) it will show either a bias at e-Bay towards repugs and warmongers or they will cancel the Democrat cards.

[dArKeR]

52. Issue for a Dem. with a spine. 'American Entreprenuer banned for cartoons'

Bias policies like this can be proven in a court of law. That's what burns me.

What about anti-policy cartoons in Time, Newsweek, U.S. News...? Are they shut down too?

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/politicalcartoons/

[ott]

2. Hey look

There's another reason I'm glad I spent about 4 hours over the course of a week canceling my e-bay account. It's not as easy as you might think.

http://www.warprofiteers.com has a better deck though.

[TankLV]

9. Me too!

Easy to join - took 3 days and many threatening emails from me to get them to "let me go".

NEVER ,EVER BECOME AN EBAY MEMBER.!

[MattNC]

4. just lost a customer

I will no longer use Ebay until this ban is reversed.

[Demobrat]

6. Make that two.

They'll never see me again.

[glitch]

18. make it three

too bad too, I've gotten some excellent stuff there.

[DavidMS]

69. I won't...

buy anything off their site for the next 30 days as punishment. We aught to collectively punish them and demand that Ebay is political-content neutral.

[twilight]

57. alls you have to do is this ...

Just bid on a bunch of auctions and don't pay and they will suspend you ... da taaaaaaaa! Buh bye eBay!

:kick:

[Whoa_Nelly]

64. When you don't pay on your auction wins

you're not hurting eBay. The indivduals who paid to have their items up for sale lose out. So, if you want to hurt eBay, just quit. But why take it out on people who have paid to sell, and lose money because someone refuses to pay them? During this time of no jobs, less pay, sales on eBay is an important source of income for many, just as it is for those who sell at flea markets to help support their families. It's unkind to hurt individuals. Not unkind to no longer be a participant of a company.

[Voltaire99]

67. Not I, for one.

Ebay's saying something about its politics through this b.s., but nothing I didn't already suspect about it. It's nothing more than the gutter of corporate commerce, after all. I'll continue to use Ebay without illusions about its being a home to all forms of speech or points of view.

Speech rights are all but nil in the private sector, with the owner of any business having considerable freedom (short of a few forms of discrimination) to dictate what goes. And for good reason, too: I need to have the freedom to throw a Republican loudmouth out of my business for upsetting me or my customers if I want. And vice versa.

The Bush deck is a nice timely parody. Ebay should sell it, but doesn't have to. In fact, happily, Ebay's heavy hand has probably brought more attention to the deck than it ever would have got otherwise.

[treepig]

5. i find these cards much less offensive than the iraqi most wanted

cards that are being sold in abundance on ebay.

with 'being sold' used advisedly - they don't seem to be very desirable right now - many of the bids are currently at $0.01

[twilight]

59. what about those Hillary Clinton cards

I thought those were an absolute insult to this lady even though I am no big time supporter of her.

As far as the other is the decks being sold on eBay - that is disgusting for many reasons. Many of the people on these cards have been threatened and people have tried to assasinate them for god's sake!

Get real you pigs or pukes :puke: or whatever you are!!!

I guess eBay is another place to boycott now ... the list gets longer and longer.

First Safeway ... now eBay ... I guess I'll be saving a few $ anyway.

Again, way to get rid of your user status quickly is to bid on a bunch of auctions you have no plan of following through with.

That will do it for certain!

:kick:

[joeunderdog]

60. Anti-War cards for sale: Link for "Hidden Agenda" Cards

http://www.galleryad.com/store/oha/index.html

Half the profits go to good charities.

(I'm not related to or profiting from the sales...just a fan of the concept.)

[twilight]

62. I got some of those cards

2 decks - one for me and one for the 81 years old woman I know that is pissed as HELL!!!

Good cause really - helps the troops over there in part! :)

:kick:

[MattNC]

7. contact info

http://pages.ebay.com/community/aboutebay/contact/index.html

[joeunderdog]

51. Free Speech has been out for bid since the Shrub arrived

Sure, ebay, blame it on complaints. will they re-run the ad if we complain?

[librechik]

8. Ebay users should demand the proBush deck be removed also

WTF the anti Bush must leave but the hate-the-Clinton's deck gets to stay? Is that what they call a free market?

BS

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. A "hate-the-Clinton's deck " ?

I was about to suggest that a Gore or Clinton administration pardoy would not have been banned.

[northzax]

25. er, there are none listed

that I can find on eBay. anyone have a link to one as evidence that eBay lets them sell?

[demdave]

10. Ebay is consistent on their policy

While their line deliniating offensive is sometimes hard to track, it does follow a path. They banned an item called a "French battle flag" that I believe was a white surrender flag.


I think their policy is to not get into political conflict. To try not to offend everyone would be impossible, so I think they choose the obviously politically biased. The deck of Iraq's most wanted would not fall in this catagory as much as it would historical item. The deck dogging Hillary and the such would.

[qb]

11. Reactionary thugs at eBay

Don't they know similar cards have been mass-produced and are on sale in book stores? What a bunch of idiots.

[northzax]

24. so because others sell them

eBay should as well?

don't they have the right to determine what is sold on their private web site?

[not systems]

12. maybe he should sue under NAFTA

It looks like restrant of trade to me.

Take it to the WTO.

[sujan]

13. fascists

can't live with them or the otherwise.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

14. Ebay is absolutely shameless!

They and all other nation-wide businesses better stay out of politics. The pendulum has a way of swinging the other way. And donkeys have looooooong memories.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

15. ENRON to EBAY...

may they sink like Kenny Boy Lay!

[wryter2000]

16. These are the people who love our "freedoms."

Pass the barf bag.

[DrDan]

17. Does the following ebay policy apply to this ban?

The following policy is posted on their site as an example of items that cannot be sold. I was also ready to send an email until I read this.

The following items may not be listed on eBay:

* A key chain bearing a picture of a rock star (even if you took the picture yourself at a concert)
* A scanned copy of an original picture of a baseball player, which original was signed by that player
* A mouse pad bearing a picture of a movie star
* A CD containing pictures of a singer taken from various sources on the Internet. (Even if you had permission to download the pictures, you probably don't have the right to sell them for a profit.)
* A light switch cover bearing Garth Brooks' name

[qb]

20. No. According to the article, these are drawings made by the artist

[demdave]

22. They try to avoid political controversy

They have pulled items deriding both the Dems and the Reps, and I have stated above, I have seen them pull an item deriding the French. It is a squiggly illdefined line but it is there.


I just want the ban on lawn Jarts lifted.:)

[PartyPooper]

21. Is there a progressive auction site out there?

I've never used Ebay before...and, now, after reading this thread, I NEVER will! Nor, will I ever own their stock.

But, I'm wondering, is there another more "liberal" site for buying and selling? I'm very serious.

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

23. Heads up

I did a search to see if similar parody items were being sold of Bill and Hillary.

This is what I found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2943687809&category=19257

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3621004576&category=33791

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3621063266&category=4103

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3236278261&category=14280

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3620882179&category=39723

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?sokeywordredirect=1&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&satitle=hillary+clinton&from=R8&sorecordstoskip=0

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. Then complain

But eBay is a private business and is just trying to avoid too much controversy. If you don't like other things on their site complain about them too.

[CatWoman]

30. I plan to complain

I'm writing one when I get home this evening.

I can't use my work computer for such things.

[alaine]

34. They're getting a kvetch from me too... (n/t)

[northzax]

27. and for the record

you can also buy the following anti-Shrub stuff...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3620304217&category=4103

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3620325946&category=39722

frankly, I'm sure there are more, but I can't be bothered to look for them.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

33. If only they could read.....

nice try though. :)

[demdave]

35. Don't interrupt a good rant with facts

I have already read above how anti-Bush items...if they exist...would probably, most likely, no doubt in my imaginary world..be banned.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. The items are not rabidly anti Bush enough

that was my point. Find me an "AWOL Bush" or "Where was Bush on 9/11?" T-shirt or bumper sticker.

The impartiality of e-bay is still in question in my mind.

[demdave]

39. I am sure they will not miss your business

How "rabidly" anti Clinton were the items found above?

1. a whip with a reference to Bill. Poor attempt at a joke

2. a joke Clinton repellent spray. ooooooo

3. a Hillary and the seven dwarves button. They left 2 dwarves out

4. Hillary on the cover of a gay magazine. You tell me.

5. a bumpersticker with Hillary being shown to represent liberals. WOW...how vile.

[Cooley Hurd]

48. Good or bad, I bought this from ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3621096296

[Fridays Child]

32. Thanks, CatWoman. I wrote two letters...

First letter:
Regarding John Steins' take-off on the Pentagon's "Most Wanted" deck of cards, was this seller's auction really banned by eBay (see article at http://north.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=aug5steins-cards08052003)? If so, I must tell you that, as an eBay buyer and seller, I am far more deeply offended by the censorship of legitimate artistic expression than I could ever be by the art itself.

Please respond to my inquiry and, if the above information is accurate, please consider reinstating Mr. Steins' auction.


Second letter:
Re: my recent inquiry about the censorship of John Steins' "Most Wanted" deck of cards auction

If you decide to keep the above ban in place, please ban the following auctions, as well:

2943687809
3621004576
3621063266
3236278261
3620882179


Please respond to this request.

[Ohio Dem]

56. Thanks, CatWoman!

I just complained to them and sent all this off to BartCop. I'm thinking Buzzflash should know about it, too.

[theHandpuppet]

28. Ebay hypocrites...

Conversely, you can buy bushels of the OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM -- "HEROES OF WAR" card decks, the ones sporting (prepare barf bags immediately!) a color photo portrait of GWB on the box. Yep, that's Dubya, the chickenhawk deserter now "hero of war"!

Gee, do you wonder when the "Heroes of Peace" card deck will be issued? Of course, I'm sure any deck sporting the likes of MLK, Berrigan, Gandhi, and Mandela with a picture of Jesus Christ on the box would be banned as politically "controversial".

What hypocritical horse hockey!

[Merlin]

29. You have a helluva good idea.

I suggest you contact the guy who did this deck and propose this idea. It is excellent. I'd buy it.

[theHandpuppet]

38. I would, but...

... it states on the box, ironically, "Made in Taiwan".

[Merlin]

40. The artist is John Steins of Dawson City, AK. Here's his web site.

Or at least a web site containing his works (via Yahoo):

http://woodengravings.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?page=john.html

Evidently he runs Klondike Institute, so it seems you can email him at:

[email protected]

[sprockets]

31. Here are many ebay company email addresses - fire away!

this site has what appears to be a load of direct email company
addresses-
http://members.aol.com/zaftiglass/aboutme/html/email.htm

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
and many more-

[headlouse]

37. where to report prohibited items

if you want to take a stab at those anti-clinton/liberal items

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact/report_listing.html

[leftofthedial]

41. these, however, are perfectly okay with Bushco supporters

ebay auction

Gawd bless murka.



(Edited to try to fix the link.)

[VaLabor]

42. yeah what about these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2185695161&category=36074

[VaLabor]

45. my letter

Dear ebay:

I recently read on the CBC website that you have banned an artist from auctioning his work on ebay. His offense was that he was selling playing cards, parodying the Iraq playing cards, but portraying members of the Bush Administration. As his material offended proBush supporters apparently, you banned his work. This action is UNAMERICAN, especially when you consider that you continue to allow antiDemocratic playing cards such as these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2185695161&category=36074

to continue to be auctioned, despite your ban of antibush cards.

I have been a longtime user of ebay. You have lost my business until you reverse this ban. Please let me know if and when you plan on reversing the ban.

Until then, I will spread the word about your unamerican practices and urge my friends and colleagues to cease using your site.

[Sheet22]

43. Figures

"They" can, of course, have "their" little deck of playing cards with those dirty brown people on them that we needed to destroy to liberate that country W wanted to bomb so badly. I've also noticed a Hilary Clinton deck of cards popping up in boxes when I've gone to different sites with the title of "Stop Hilary's Book!" We should just know better than to try and do things like them-they're just plain better than us.:puke:

I guess, it's just a hint that maybe we shouldn't lower ourselves to their level. I think we should stick to the more intellectual stuff, like our world famous list.:evilgrin:

[JohnKleeb]

44. are bush lovers like the biggest freaks

Like I never wanted anti clinton shit to be taken off the web, I hear now about someone who disses Bush having their stuff taken off, good thing I havent put up the dartboard yet lol.

[HungryLoser]

47. Freaks?! They scare the livin' bejesus outta me

sometimes. They can be seriously vicious people, and I thought I had issues.

[HungryLoser]

49. Not to sound like a Liberal-Traitor or anything but..

how do we know the Feds didn't request (order) they be taken off? If they're low enough to harass charity groups about anti-Bush statements or suggestions,then... makes ya wonder.

[chomskyite2]

46. and yet you can still buy Nazi shit, as well as "anti-clinton spray"

see for yourself...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3621004576&category=33791

[Pastiche423]

50. You can read

hate emails Mr. Stein received here:

http://www.thebushadministration.com/bush/letters_anti.html

Can you say F-R-E-E-P-E-R-S? lol

[JackSwift]

53. California Controller Stever Westly

was one of ebay's founders. It is a company that is a Democrat company. We need to find out if these cards are truly over the line, and if not, let them know. I do a lot of buying on ebay.

[Newsjock]

54. New, longer story here

In Tuesday's Whitehorse Star, much longer than the original CBC report.

http://www.whitehorsestar.com/storyDetail.lasso?r=46473

EBay turfs man’s anti-Bush regime cards
by Sarah L. Taggart

He might have lost EBay’s millions-strong membership, but if you still want to take a look at what caused all the furor, you’re in luck.

Dawson City artist John Steins has taken his “racist Canadian puke”, according to one not-so fan, and put it up at thebushadministration.com.

... “It’s prejudicial in my case,” Steins said in an interview today from his Dawson home. “Under copyright law, there is a provision for fair use; it allows for political parody.”

... He himself received eight abusive, threatening and harassing e-mails from the same Kansas man, who turned out to be an avid seller of high-powered weaponry on the very same site. Said man was the gentleman who called Steins a “racist Canadian puke”.

more

[amazona]

55. well, I blame the artist as much as eBay

He gave up too easily. I honestly believe EBay would have reinstated him if he'd been more persistent. It wouldn't have had to progress to a lawsuit. It is just a big hassle for everyone, not just political artists, but everyone to get through to a live human customer service rep at eBay. He should not have just thrown up his hands like that. EBay acted on a complaint -- knowing eBay, their computer acted on the complaint.

There is no real alternative to eBay. It is the auction site if you actually want to get bids on your items, at least in my category. I am not about to boycott the site as a seller.

As far as buyers who boycott the site, you are not costing eBay anything appreciable. You are harming individual small sellers who are trying to sell there.

I could understand a letter writing or phone call campaign but to abandon the site altogether...when even the artist himself doesn't seem to want to be-stir himself to point out that parody is fair use...sigh...

eBay is far from perfect but it is the only site like it that we have. Amazon and Yahoo? Don't make me laugh.

[twilight]

58. well hell help please

I'd like to buy a deck or two of these cards. They are/will be highly collectible hopefully at some point in my life.

Please advise or message me.

Thanks folks! :)

twilight

[Pert_UK]

61. THESE CAN BE BOUGHT FROM HIS WEBSITE.....

www.thebushadministration.com

Ha ha ha.....

Note that a lot of the criticism he received seems to be because people regard using "Spades" as a negative thing to be racist......and making Rumsfeld the "queen" is apparently an insult to gays.....

Nothing to do with the original pack of cars then?

F*cking idiots....

P.

[twilight]

63. hmmmm - not sure about that site

If you click on the paypal link it doesn't say for how much ???

I don't know what to think so I emailed that site to find out more ... :shrug:

:kick:

[PartyPooper]

65. Queen? Am I insulted? Hell, No!

Hey, but, as a gay person, I am insulted by * and his homophobic friends and relations!

Signed,

an 'old queen' / dowager princess in disguise

:evilgrin:

[Whoa_Nelly]

66. IMHO eBay is submitting

to the worry that people won't participate if they object to certain items, and it's bad press. However, these * items are up on eBay, so why aren't these sellers banned?

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=impeach+bush+-cd&ht=2&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&sotextsearched=2&BasicSearch=