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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:18 PM
Original message
Occupy SF to Open People's Reserve Credit Union
Source: SF Weekly

... Occupy SF announced its ambitious plans to turn protesters into bankers by creating the People's Reserve Credit Union. According to Occupy SF's Facebook page:

The goal of this project is to encourage San Francisco residents, businesses, as well as nonprofit and city agencies to keep their money out of the big banks and to redistribute that money locally. Initial services will include micro-loans for the working poor and homeless, and subsidized student loans at low interest rates.

The credit union is being created with the help of San Francisco's Glide Community Church and Supervisors John Avalos and Eric Mar. The group filed its paperwork and has already crafted a thoughtful mission statement: The credit union will serve as a replicable model for other financial institutions to reinvest wealth in their local communities. They will support microenterprise, provide educational loans, and foster community improvement projects.

Jason Macarthur, a protester with Occupy SF, listed the goals that the organization plans to achieve within the first year. That includes starting with 500 members with plans to grow to 2,000 members before the end of next year.

Read more: http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/12/occupy_sf_p...
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is fantastic!!!
Good luck!
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. + 99 %
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. how do i start an account?
:)
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Cool!
And now, about those Occupy Party Candidates?
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Quartermass Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. This will get the Feds after them.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. feds can't touch them
legally they can't because they aren't a bank. it's not for profit
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reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. Why would the feds go after a credit union? They aren't a threat to the establishment...
...they are part of the establishment. A normal, regular, everyday part of the banking industry. There have been some credit unions (recently, I'm not talking about the abuses that followed deregulation) that have engaged in some shady, illegal practices, but as long as they actually stay on the up-and-up there isn't any reason to "go after them".
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Now this is practical and necessary.
And fucking brilliant.
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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Pierre-Joseph Proudhon tried to enact this idea while developing his theory on Mutualism.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 07:14 PM by Fantastic Anarchist
A Peoples' Bank is a great idea.


Proudhon favored workers' associations or co-operatives, as well as individual worker/peasant possession, over private ownership or the nationalization of land and workplaces. He considered that social revolution could be achieved in a peaceful manner. In The Confessions of a Revolutionary Proudhon asserted that, Anarchy is Order Without Power, the phrase which much later inspired, in the view of some, the anarchist circled-A symbol, today "one of the most common graffiti on the urban landscape."<2> He unsuccessfully tried to create a national bank, to be funded by what became an abortive attempt at an income tax on capitalists and stockholders. Similar in some respects to a credit union, it would have given interest-free loans.<3>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/pjproudhon/property-is-t...

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/proudhon/...
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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. And also ...
He was in favor of creating the alternative institutions outside of the existing order, to where it would compete, and then eventually replace the old order.
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wandago Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It's still capitalism.
Your anarchist institutions will have to compete in the marketplace with traditional capitalist institutions, which simply continues the problem.
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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No, it isn't. The economic system exists at the point of production.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 07:56 PM by Fantastic Anarchist
With Proudhon, the workers freely associated and produced based on the Labor Theory of Value. They each, in turn, received compensation according to the value of their labor. The surplus value wasn't stolen by some capitalist (which is capitalism), but redistributed back to labor.

So, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

In fact, Proudhon's Mutualism came from his observations of the militant Lyon workers controlling their workplace, and eventually developed to be the basis for free-market socialism (not to be confused with capitalism) and Participatory Economics (PARECON).

Edit to add: I'm not completely wedded to the entire concept of Mutualism, but I do like the general concept, and I like the idea of his Bank of Exchange that would provide loans at no interest (only charging the cost of administration), so that those producing and innovating would contribute back to society - since the bank would not be making a profit, and since anyone with an idea would have a loan in order to actually pursue it.

I consider myself more in line with the collectivist anarchist, Mikhail Bakunin but meld all of the anarchist variants from individualist (which were still socialists) to the anarchist communists and anarcho-syndicalist. I think all of the variants are important to study.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I'm not a mutualist but I find it's useful to debunk capitalist myths.
If you ask how a capitalist behaves, you can put the same behavior in mutualist terms, and then show how that capitalist behavior is inherently authoritarian.

Note, I don't think this coop is attempting to do interest free loans, and I think that would be extremely cool if they did something like that and produced alternate currencies (which would be exchanged for real currency of course).
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Why doesn't the "lesser evil" apply here? Certainly better than BofA or Citibank?
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 11:58 PM by defendandprotect
Credit unions -- and community banks are also better --

How about some OWS banks taking over -- would have been a great idea before

we bailed out the capitalist fascists!

Any step that moves toward taking a dollar away from corporations will be the right way --

We need to invent the dollar bill, basically --

And make "corporations impotent" -- !!

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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. Sometimes you have to work with the conditions you are given.
Exactly. ;)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. ... and presume you understood I meant "uninvent the dollar bill" ... ????
Edited on Sat Dec-03-11 01:34 PM by defendandprotect
:hi:

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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
66. I understood what you were striving for = ....
;) :hi:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
61. Yep, my thoughts for some time, we need a system, so to say, to operate
outside of "the system." One that is more inherently fair so as to, as you say, make "corporations impotent" and I would also add to that the banking industry. That said, this does come to mind ... humans are involved and how would an alternative structure be kept fair? Of course, just because someone is OWS does not mean they are inherently honest or fair? Just thinking about how it might work and not fall into similar trappings as capitalism.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. Great question -- and our Founders warned of "dishonest men" -- that's why we have Bill of Rights --
I think the New Deal worked very well to keep people honest --

and one hell of a lot of stuff from the New Deal written down.

They even had actual prison reform! As in reform meaning a "good thing" -- no ta scam!

Most people, imo, don't wake up every morning trying to figure out how to gai ncontrol

over others or how to take over some other nation's assets -- only the few think that way.

Most people just want to live their lives in peace --

True there are no guarantees -- but I do think the New Deal succeeded very well in that

regard.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
65. Absolutely it applies, but are they lesser evil than any other Credit Union?
Time will tell.

From an anarchist standpoint Credit Unions are 'evil' because they do in fact charge interest, and they do in fact have credit checks. If this credit union can forego those behaviors it's already doing fantastic.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. We'll see, but obviously concentration of all of us is more on ridding ourselves of corporatism....
unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. K&R n/t
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
57. No. They don't have to compete
Because they're part of the community and they will invest all their assets into the community. In other words they will do things the big banks don't do. So there's no competition.
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watajob Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
60. I'm nowhere near as informed ...
Edited on Sat Dec-03-11 03:34 PM by watajob
... or eloquent as Fantastic Anarchist appears to be. So, let me give you the dumb, old truck drivers response to your statement. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with capitalism, in and of itself. I want to be able to turn my intrinsic/inherited/acquired value into some kind of "hard"/spendable currency at a fair level commensurate with my abilities/ambition. I have no problem with wealthy people. While still a bit extreme, people like the late Steve Jobs, Bill gates, or to go back a bit, Henry Ford or Thomas Edison at least returned to society some "thing", (be it physical or intellectual), of value while accumulating vast wealth. While not blameless in the corporate dominance/manipulation of our current situation, there is/was a "there" there. Similarly, the venture capitalists make an attempt to be productive with their wealth. It's the Mafia inspired fixed/crooked games of chance and ensuing "skim" that has no place in, at a minimum, an equitably functioning system. It's not socialism to have the government there to ensure the proverbial "level playing field" nor backstop someone from sliding into abject poverty due to life's random nature. A chance at bat and a reasonable level of confidence while taking the swing is all I want.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. You touched on something I've always felt. Any "ism" can become corrupt, be
it capitalism, socialism, whatever if the regulations are not in place to stop it ... capitalism would work IMO if highly regulated. The problem we have today is basically crooks and thieves have moved into running the capitalistic show. If it were cleaned up it could work IMO. Same with gov. Our gov. works, the problem is the ones the populace have voted into great positions of power.
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Fantastic Anarchist Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Fair enough ...
We just have different ideas on what we think a just society would entail. There's nothing wrong with differing opinions. I appreciate your eloquence and your compliment.

:toast:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. +1
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Ooh, very interesting!
This could be a fantastic idea if done right. It is also the perfect next-step answer to the question of "what does Occupy do now?"
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Um...they become bankers?
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's why I said I hope it's done right
If it's all about profit, then it sucks. If it's about community, as a democracy should be, then it has the potential to be quite nice!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. In the present context that becomes a nasty assertion.
Done properly, however, a banker might become a valued member of society instead of the parasite they're viewed as today. It's a potential paradigm shift.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. no....an alternative to commercial banks.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Yeah, I heard about those alternatives.
They're called...credit unions.

Semantics aside, can anyone answer me this: will the money maintained in this new credit union be FDIC insured?
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. excellent!
....if this works out and comes to my community, I'll support it....and don't stop there, continue on with

....People's Community Hospitals and Clinics

....People's Community Markets and Stores

....People's Community Electric and Natural Gas....etc...

....if we don't have to turn a large profit to carry the dead weight of overpaid management, wall street gamblers and the corrupt banksters, extremely competitive products and pricing for the public, fair pay and conditions for the employees, could result....

....we have to create a new economic model, we have to think outside of the crapitalist box....
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. I like it!
They got the entire country's - actually the entire world's - attention with the occupations. Now they move on to actual concrete economic actions. Actions that, due to all of the publicity, will likely get lots of support.

This could be successful and spawn more of the same across the country.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. Cool! I think I will join! How about you?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. Great idea...
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. This will be successful
And after the years when it has billions of assets and the officers are rich, people will be protesting against it.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. excellent!
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Fantastic! I've been having a hard time moving my money.
This sounds like the perfect solution. Wow! Great news!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Think we need to statr replacing some National banks with OWS banks -- !!
Edited on Fri Dec-02-11 11:58 PM by defendandprotect
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. Can we get a TV Box station too?
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h2ebits Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. Great Idea!
I am so glad that Occupy is doing this in SF. I'm sure it will catch on across the country once a model is established. I have always liked the example that the State of North Dakota has set for itself. It has a state bank that keeps the money local and funnels outside funds into the state bank--as in, if you wish to do business in the State of North Dakota all fees, bonds (such as those posted to drill wells), etc. are posted to the state bank and held, allowing it to take care of its locals.

Truly independent State and has an extraordinarily low unemployment rate.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. I think the main part of the reason for the low unemployment
in ND is the oil.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. Outstanding! ... Thank you.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
29. The best way to fight them........take away the money....their power!
The only thing they understand or will respond to is to hit them in the pocketbook.....it's all they care about.
:thumbsup:
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. It is the happy, it is the glee!
This is outstanding :D Thank you for the post!
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Magoo48 Donating Member (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
31. Great idea
The point is that we try something new. It will either work or it won't, either way it will add to a growing body of experience. Like our anarchist friend showed, there is already a history to learn from. Sometimes just the smallest change in the environment can cause an organism to flower and produce. Give it a go, and see what happens...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
34. Salut!

When the people lead
the leaders they will have to follow
and all their lies and their alibies
they will have to swallow
and it's you that has the authority
for the one who is right
is the majority

when the people lead
people take the lead
children you've got to take your lead
or you shall be led astray

so as long as someone else
controls your history
the truth shall remain just a mystery
for you can lead a horse to the water
but you cannot make him drink
you can put a man through school
but you cannot make him think


-- Ben Harper


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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. Credit Unions are in my blood-but I wonder
My Grandfather was one of the founding members and officers of one of the oldest credit unions. I grew up running around in the office. At the time there was strong member involvement with annual meetings during which officers were elected. I belong to 2 CUs and there doesn't seem to be much member involvement. It is almost like a bank except that you have to keep $5.00 in a savings account.

That's one thing. The other is were do CUs keep their cash reserves? Do they put them in accounts at CITI or Chase?

That said, if an OCCUPY Credit Union opens that I can join-I will.
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. Excellent!! K&R
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. "Merry Christmas MISTER POTTER..........".
...We're coming after you.
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
38. Great idea.
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Huey P. Long Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. occupy!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
41. Outstanding!
:applause:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
43. Brilliant!
I LOVE THIS!
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
44. Can folks in Oakland invest in this?
I don't have much money, but I'd love to be part of this.
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Eyerish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
45. K&R
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
46. .
:cry: -Happy . . . !
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
48. K & R !!!
:bounce:

:kick:
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AnnieK401 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
50. I love it!
Hope it works out. Let me know when I can open my account!
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
52. This is great! nt
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
54. I'd be interested to see what their lending standards are.
If they treat the customers fairly, they'll be less profitable than other banks, but that means they'll also be less able to absorb the cost of bad loans.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. Wonderful!
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. I will seriously consider banking with them when they set up banks in Oakland
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
59. K&R !!! n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
62. Wow, that's great! nt
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
64. On the one hand, its a neat thing
On the other, what makes this any different, other than the start date, from any other small local credit union, of which I feel safe saying SF has many?
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 07:33 AM
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70. Kick
In DU3, they could increase the Recommendation window.
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