Unemployment rate falls to lowest since March 2009

[dipsydoodle]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The unemployment rate fell last month to its lowest level in more than two and a half years, as employers stepped up hiring in response to the slowly improving economy.

The Labor Department says the unemployment rate dropped sharply to 8.6 percent last month, down from 9 percent in October. The rate hasn't been that low since March 2009, during the depths of the recession.

Employers added 120,000 jobs last month. And the previous two months were revised up to show that 72,000 more jobs added - the fourth straight month the government revised prior months higher.

Still, one reason the unemployment rate fell so much was because roughly 315,000 people gave up looking for work and were no longer counted as unemployed.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY?SITE=NEYOR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[OKNancy]

1. I should be really happy for those who are working... and I am

but what really makes me laugh is how it punches holes in the Repubs arguments. ( and some here too )
I'm getting a huge chuckle out of these numbers.

[coalition_unwilling]

2. With the number of new weekly claims edging above 400K for

the week prior and the fact that discouraged workers outnumbered new jobs by a roughly 3-1 ratio, I wouldn't get out the party hats and favors just yet.

It does tend to blunt one of the arrows in the Repukes' quiver, though.

But aside from the propaganda value contained in the report, in real terms, it means very, very little.

[No Elephants]

24. Shhhh. Facts only spoil the celebration.

[Yupster]

39. Serious question

What is a discouraged worker?

Does anyone know anyone that the government would consider part of that group?

I picture a 62 year old who after a year of looking for a job, said, what the hell, I'm retired.

Do I have that right?

[pinqy]

43. Definition of discouraged worker

A Discouraged worker is someone who did not work during the reference week of the survey, did not look for work in the previous 4 weeks (so not unemployed), but who did look sometime in the previous 12 months, says they want to work, could take a job if offered, but is not looking because they don't believe they would be successful. Reasons for Discouragement are beliefs that they are too old, too young, would be discriminated against because of sex or race, don't have enough skills/education, don't believe any jobs are available.

[chervilant]

68. Actually,

Picture a 55 year old woman who left the mortgage lending
industry to become a teacher (Gadzooks!), and has been unable
to find a full-time position for the last four
years--resulting in a growing amount of overdue rent and no
way to maintain a separate household after this month.

Christmas, 2011...happy, happy, joy, joy...

[Divernan]

74. Sorry to hear your circumstances. Hope things improve for you in 2012.

[chervilant]

133. Thank you so much!

I think the uber Wealthy are hoping that those of us who are facing dire straits will just succumb to depression, and transition rapidly from homelessness to death. I think We the People are dashing their hopes on the rocks of activism and Satyagraha.

[Beacool]

76. I'm so sorry.

I have a friend who hasn't worked in over 2 years. There are so many people going through hard times. It's just sickening.

I hope that 2012 is a better year for you.

Hang in there!!!

:hug:

[chervilant]

134. Hugs

are always a wonderful currency. Thanks ever so.

[Beacool]

149. You are very welcome.

Here are some more to hold you over.

:hug:



:hi:

[No Elephants]

108. So very sorry. Wishing something turns for you.

I know that sounds hollow, but I honestly do wish it for you and have no specific suggestions.

[chervilant]

135. Actually,

I am most heartened by the growing number of us (the vast Hoi Polloi) who are reaching out to one another, and taking amazing steps to nudge the evolution of our species toward peace, sustainability, and respect for this amazing planet upon which we dwell.

[No Elephants]

137. Thank you for telling me that. I am so glad that you found something positive.

And you were very gracious to tell me about it. Thank you,

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. My brother in law

after two years of looking he went back to school.

Me, I have been looking for it for so long it is not even funny.

Oh and nowhere close to retirement either.

[Doctor_J]

82. Or a 33-year old who after 2 years of looking for work

sounds discouraging

[No Elephants]

107. No.

[totodeinhere]

63. You are correct. Yet a lot of people at DU will jump on this as "good news"

and an accomplishment for Obama, when it is not. The rate went down party because of people giving up looking for work.

The rate fell from the previous month's 9.0 percent, a move which in part reflected a drop in those looking for jobs. The participation rate dropped to 64 percent, from 64.2 percent in October, representing 315,000 fewer job-seekers.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45521793

[tabasco]

98. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Just as expected.

Unemployment goes down.

Utopians and other morans spin it into BAD NEWS.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

109. 120,000 jobs, but 315,000 stopped looking, so the unemployment rate only APPEARED to go down.

Yippee frickin do!

Hey, I can knee jerk, too.

[tabasco]

125. Yes, it's much better when the unemployment rate goes up!

In woo-woo world!! :rofl:

[totodeinhere]

127. No, it's much better when the real unemployment rate goes down. That isn't happening. n/t

[No Elephants]

136. In your world, what does "only APPEARED to go down" mean?

I guess refusing to cheer misleading information means, in your book, that I am in woo woo world, as you eloquently put it? Well, I'd rather be in reality than in foolish denial.

You might try reading this thread. It has good information in it. So did the link given in the post to you that got deleted. I read the article. Did you?

[totodeinhere]

126. There was no spin involved. Just look at the statistics about what really happened. n/t

[chervilant]

146. O, Goodie!

Someone who still believes in the agenda-driven propaganda promulgated by the corporate megs to insure that we, the vast Hoi Polloi, will stay just this side of sheer panic as our economy continues to swirl down the toilet!

I bet you still believe in Santa Claus...

[defendandprotect]

105. If anyone has noticed, we're getting a lot of "cheery" news ... while the opposite seems to be

the truth --

Always love it when they tell me the stock market is going up !!! ROFL


Think some jobs are opening up -- perhaps most of all thanks to OWS --

maybe they think it's smarter to put them to work than have them on the streets?

Wouldn't be lulled to sleep again by any of this --

health costs are still rising -- insurance rates rising for medical care --

Super Congress is still in place with its agenda to cut Medicare and Social Security --

which are basically safety nets --

Remember the population is aging --


And Obama is still president pushing his corporate agenda --

and playing nice with the GOP -- !!



I'd say a lot of things have gotten better since OWS began to come out into the streets!!

THANK YOU, OWS!!

[jpak]

3. kick

yup

[mahatmakanejeeves]

4. Unemployment rate falls to 8.6% in November; payroll employment rises by 120,000

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- NOVEMBER 2011

The unemployment rate fell by 0.4 percentage point to 8.6 percent in November, and
nonfarm payroll employment rose by 120,000, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
reported today. Employment continued to trend up in retail trade, leisure and
hospitality, professional and business services, and health care. Government
employment continued to trend down.

Household Survey Data

In November, the unemployment rate declined by 0.4 percentage point to 8.6 percent.
From April through October, the rate held in a narrow range from 9.0 to 9.2 percent.
The number of unemployed persons, at 13.3 million, was down by 594,000 in November.
The labor force, which is the sum of the unemployed and employed, was down by a
little more than half that amount. (See table A-1.)

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rate for adult men fell by 0.5
percentage point to 8.3 percent in November. The jobless rate for whites (7.6
percent) also declined, while the rates for adult women (7.8 percent), teenagers
(23.7 percent), blacks (15.5 percent), and Hispanics (11.4 percent) showed little
or no change. The jobless rate for Asians was 6.5 percent, not seasonally adjusted.
(See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

In November, the number of job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs
declined by 432,000 to 7.6 million. The number of long-term unemployed (those
jobless for 27 weeks and over) was little changed at 5.7 million and accounted
for 43.0 percent of the unemployed. (See tables A-11 and A-12.)

Read more: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

---

The server's just plain getting hammered.

Overnight, I heard estimates of anywhere from 25,000 added jobs to 150,000 added jobs.

Monthly Employment Reports

The large print giveth, and the fine print taketh away.

A DU'er pointed out several months ago that, if I'm going to post the link to the press release, I should include the link to all the tables that provide additional ways of examining the data. Specifically, I should post a link to "Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization." Table A-15 includes those who are not considered unemployed, on the grounds that they have become discouraged about the prospects of finding a job and have given up looking. Here are those links.

Employment Situation

Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

From the February 10, 2011, "DOL Newsletter":

Take Three

Secretary Solis answers three questions about how the Bureau of Labor Statistics calculates unemployment rates.

How does BLS determine the unemployment rate and the number of jobs that were added each month?

BLS uses two different surveys to get these numbers. The "household survey," or Current Population Survey (CPS), involves asking people, from about 60,000 households, a series of questions to assess each person in the household's activities including work and searching for work. Their responses give us the unemployment rate. The "establishment survey," or Current Employment Statistics (CES), surveys 140,000 employers about how many people they have on their payrolls. These results determine the number of jobs being added or lost.

[DaveJ]

5. Prior to an election, I'm not surprised to see unemplyment fall and the stock market go up

We are all just pawns in a larger game.

[No Elephants]

110. I don't think actual unemployment has fallen. What the feds report is a different

figure than actual unemployment.

[dmallind]

132. Define actual unemployment. All U rates declined

The ONLY ways to be excluded from U6 for example are to be incarcerated or enlisted, to not to have looked for a job in 12 months and not to want one (which latter two are in any reasonable sense the same thing).

[No Elephants]

138. According to which underlying data, though?

Please see Reply 117. You are posting as though this information is infallible. It isn't.

Also, whn 120000 jobs are added, but the 315,000 drop out of the calculations, the number we are given as the increase in employment is illusory.

As far as defining actual employment, I thought that was obvious. Actual people in actual jobs.

[dmallind]

150. I've seen 117 and I REstate - local reports are not reflected, at all, in BLS rates

I asked you to define UNemployment for a reason. Is a stay at home parent who has no need for snd no interest in outside work unemployed? Is a trust fund scion of the Gettys unemployed? Is a prisoner unemployed? Is somebody who lives off SSDI and physically can't work unemployed? Is a grifter or drug dealer whose income is solely black market unemployed? Is a full time student unemployed? Is an adult who sponges off their parents or spouse and has no interest or desire in working themselves unemployed?

The BLS data are not infallible, no. They have a margin of error like all surveys (albeit very small due to sample size). They are however consistent and use consistent definitions from month to month - NONE of which have anything at all to do with benefits in any way. The 315000 simply said they were no longer looking for work - for any of the reasons named above and no doubt more. Why should somebody not looking for work be counted as a member of the workforce?

[Turbineguy]

6. So the republicans stopping Obama idea

is finally bearing fruit.:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

111. You might want to read the entire thread. It has some pretty good info.

[JesterCS]

7. its probably just seasonal jobs. after jan, youll see the UE back up n/t

[jpak]

8. boo hoo hoo

yup

[No Elephants]

31. You may want to read the thread. But only if you want facts.

[AtheistCrusader]

54. I'm glad to see you are consistent with this nonsense across more than just the gungeon subforum.

Observing that this is seasonal, people desperate for ANY sort of work, and often is classified as underemployment, isn't 'crying', etc.

It's an observation of reality.

[No Elephants]

112. Supposedly, the stat is adjusted for seasonal factors, but this thread has several very good posts

explaining why unemployment has not decreased at all, even if the federal statistic about the "unemployment rate" make it seem it has.

[dmallind]

45. The adjusted and non-adjusted rates are in A-15. Nonadjusted is even better

So sorry but your attempt to be miserable is already pre-empted by the way the data are calculated.

[No Elephants]

113. Please read the thread.

[dmallind]

131. Please tell me what I missed. My statement is 100% accurate.

[No Elephants]

140. Again, please read the thread.

[dmallind]

151. Already have. Again what did I miss or get wrong? Can you not spell it out, or just not find it?

[dmallind]

44. EVERY measure in A-15 improved though....

[Jon Ace]

104. And watch it magically jump back to 9% come January...

It's called "holiday help" for a reason.

[Javaman]

9. Breaking News: Unemployment rate falls to 8.6% in November

Source: MSNBC

No link yet.

No link yet.

[No Elephants]

10. Holiday hiring?

[bigworld]

11. I don't think that would show up yet.

This is good news for Obama (and the unemployed)!

[No Elephants]

15. Not in results for November? Why not?

[MarkCharles]

17. Seasonal hiring WOULD show up in November, and BLS stats are...

seasonally adjusted each November to take accounting of that, and not report them as part of permanent jobs.
Also, much of the jobs increase is in non-retail areas, according to BLS.

[No Elephants]

114. Thanks.

Holiday hiring is far from limited to retail. However, I am sure they take that into account when they do their adjusting.

After three years of these economic times, the cumulative number of "discouraged" workers must be huge. 315,000 in November 2011 alone (versus 120,000 new jobs). So, I would not assume that actual net unemployment has decreased.

This thread (as merged) has a lot of good info and links that seem to say it has not decreased.

[INdemo]

12. added 120,000 new jobs

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/november-unemployment-rate-falls-86-percent/story?id=15065163

[bigworld]

13. BLS.gov website is crashed

They could use a couple new employees there (and some new servers!)

[SKKY]

50. The numbers for holiday hiring are not included into this...

...by the department of labor.

[jpak]

14. I blame Obama for this horrible news

he has no soul

:rofl:

:bounce:

[jpak]

16. Oh yeah - no doom for you

yup

[No Elephants]

23. Talking to yourself on a message board? 300,000 stopped looking.

[dmallind]

46. And they are included in U-6 which also declined.

[No Elephants]

115. That is not surprising, given the economy of last three years. If 315,000

became "discouraged" last month, the cumulative number of people who became "discouraged" during the entire period would be huge. At some point, the number becoming "discouraged" obviously is going to taper off. But, that natural result does not mean a net gain in employment.

And 120,000 new jobs versus 315,000 who stopped looking is not a great stat.

Again, this thread has a lot of good info.

[dmallind]

128. What about the 378000 no longer PT but wanting FT?

[Muskypundit]

36. Lol

Nice.

[phantom power]

18. wait, three times as many people gave up looking as were hired?

[No Elephants]

22. Almost. About 300,000 gave up looking and 120, 000 jobs were added.

But, sure, let's celebrate like its 1929, er, I mean, 1999.

[INdemo]

37. I remember how the Bush administration used to

s t r e t c h the numbers to make it look like unemployment was decreasing by using those figures for those that fell off the benefit list because they had maxed out..Well..I dont put anything past the Obama administration and they may be using the same"make it look good for us" formula.After all he has been more of a Bush third term than a "change we can believe in"

[dmallind]

47. Never happened. Benefits have ZERO impact on the unemployment rate.

[hugo_from_TN]

89. The myth that dropping off unemployment means you aren't counted

in the unemployment numbers is one of the most pervasive myths on DU. It never goes away.

[No Elephants]

118. Please see Reply 117,

[dmallind]

152. Reply 117 proves what I said

Just because local reports include benefits sometimes does not mean the BLS does - their methodology is spelled out in detail at the link.

[dmallind]

130. I know - Koresh knows why when it's corrected many times every month. nt

[No Elephants]

117. Not the benefits themselves, but the unemployment rates reported by states and local entities

figure into the BLS's calculations and those applying for/collecting unemployment benefits probably weigh heavily in the reports from state and local entities.

Looking at what the BLS actually does use to arrive at its numbers makes it fairly clear that there is room for a lot of bs in the figures anyway, so I am not sure why we treat small deviations as significant.

http://www.bls.gov/bls/unemployment.htm

See also

"Some people think that to get these figures on unemployment, the Government uses the number of persons filing claims for unemployment insurance (UI) benefits under State or Federal Government programs. But some people are still jobless when their benefits run out, and many more are not eligible at all or delay or never apply for benefits. So, quite clearly, UI information cannot be used as a source for complete information on the number of unemployed."

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#why

"complete," of course, being the key word, hence my bolding. Put another way, the BLS does use that unemployment benefit claim info, along with other info.

[dmallind]

129. No they do not - the methodology is in the link

It is a survey and nothing more. What local authorities do does not affect the UE rate from the BLS in the slightest.

[No Elephants]

139. ? One of the links cites several sources of info used, of which a survey is only one.

Another of the links I gave says info from unemployment claims is not the only source used. A survey is used as well beause of certain weaknesses that would occur if info from unemployment claims were the only source used.




And, it isn't as though we know how that their survey subjects were chosen infallibly, either.

The unemployment rate supposedly went from 9% to 8.6%. That is a .4% difference. But, it isn't even that. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/02/jobs-report-december-november-2011_n_1125180.html

[dmallind]

153. Bullshit - the BLS data is ONLY survey-based. They mention other REPORTS that use benefits

[stockholmer]

61. +1000, thank you for being a voice of reason

I want the US to truly recover, and actually recover, as this helps the world's economy too.

Furthermore, I do not think that Obama is the cause of th untruths about the true depths of the crisis, it is the ENTIRE falsely-constructed, utterly manipulated statistical reporting system that BOTH parties developed and exploit.

The CPI index alone is just criminal:

A Tale Of Two Inflations: Why US CPI Is Flawed And Why Bernanke Will Maintain ZIRP As Revolutions Rage

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tale-two-inflations-here-why-us-cpi-indicator-flawed-and-why-bernanke-will-maintain-zirp-rev

[No Elephants]

116. Agree. If we were using the same measures we used during the Depression,

we'd probably be depressed in more ways than one.

And the CPI is indeed a joke.

[taught_me_patience]

33. baby boomers retiring. n/t

[No Elephants]

141. Somehow, I don't think so.

[FreedomVoice]

19. Some additional numbers:

I know I am going to get lit up for providing additional numbers, but I feel as being a in the "economist" industry, I must provide any other info I know about this important issue.

If the Labor Force was the same size it was in 2008-2009 (the point they are saying was the last time we were below 8.6% UE) the current unemployment rate today would actually calculate out to be 11%.

This is just additional info. Not my slamming of adding 120,000 jobs.

[No Elephants]

28. Welcome to DU.

In my opinion, if you have facts to offer, or even an honest opinion, never allow the response you anticipate to dampen your enthusiasm for posting it.

Posters who "can't handle the truth" should be the ones afraid to post, not people posting facts. Worst case, someone will post other facts that counter the ones you posted and many of us might learn something.

JMO.

Then again, it may depend on the reasons why you are posting. If you are posting in the hopes of seeing a lot of "way to go" responses to your posts (one of many possible valid reasons to post), totally ignore my advice.

[FreedomVoice]

60. Ha-ha, thanks, I didn't expect "way to go" but I may have been a bit

overly gun-shy from reading responses on other threads. Thanks for the advise and kind words.

[No Elephants]

142. You're welcome!

Wanting "Atta boys" is a perfectly good reason to want to post. It's just not my reason, but I do not diminish it. Each of us has his or her own reasons for posting; and I do not disparage any of them.

On the other hand, I never let a message board bully intimidate me, especially if I have facts or links to post. Hell, on a message board, a bully can't even steal my lunch money. Talk about a paper tiger! There's not even any paper!

Just sing it.

And that includes when I disagree with you, which I probably will, sooner or later.

[madrchsod]

32. welcome to du........

don`t worry about being lit up---there`s a lot of people who agree with you.

[FreedomVoice]

62. Thanks!!! n/t

[SixthSense]

34. I'm with you

Honest numbers are the basis for making rational decisions.

The number to grapple with is that 150,000 people reach working age in an average month, so anything less than that in job creation is negative growth (shrinking jobs base) relative to population.

[demgrrrll]

40. Hey thanks for stopping by.

[pinqy]

59. You have to caveat that.

The calculation would be correct if and only if, ALL the people no longer in the Labor Force and didn't join the labor force would have been unemployed. That's a bad assumption. The Participation rate can change for non-economic reasons.

[No Elephants]

143. Did it last month?

[lonestarnot]

20. GOPers love to cook books.

[tawadi]

21. I'm so glad to know people are happily employed and making decent wages

:sarcasm:

[cmd]

25. The Republican jaws dropped even lower nt

[SixthSense]

26. numbers are a fraud

BLS website was down for corrections after they got caught

Either way this report is nothing to cheer, the employment rate - that is, actual people having actual jobs - went down.

How can both the employment rate and unemployment rate go down? Simple - a large number of people just rolled off the list, having exhausted their benefits and/or given up looking for work entirely.

[NorthCarolina]

27. +1

[No Elephants]

30. As a former business partner of mine used to say "figure lie and liars figure."

And he should have known that better than anyone! He was in charge of overseeing the bookkeeping department that generated all our figures.

[jeanmarc]

52. Absolutely.

This is a Bushian drop in unemployment. The positive job growth is welcome, but the economy is still creeping along.

[Cigar11]

29. Don't worry, the GOP ...

is doing everything they can to prevent The Unemployment Rate from dropping.

[Safetykitten]

35. Let the super duper manipulation begin!

[Itchinjim]

38. I don't know who is more disappointed in this news, the GOP

or the DU doom and gloomers.

[demgrrrll]

41. I'll go with the DU doom and gloomers.

[chervilant]

147. hmm...

Condescension is so unbecoming. However, considering your posts of late, you wear it well.

[Safetykitten]

49. Ah yes, the DUgds. That's us, you nailed it right there. Yes you did.

You know, the ones with a job that pays 10 bucks an hour compared to 80,000 thousand a year. Those types, you got us good you did! Not that we are not happy to have a job, as many of us searched since 2008 for a job. Oh, and add those people like me with two college degrees! Oh, wait, we are the stupid ones too! Having committed the crime of being over 50 AND having a degree. But you have us sooooo dialed in. We know that you think we are fucking morons to not have a job, and have a degree. OR TWO! Yes, Accoring to the cult of personality here, we are guilty of the following:

Wrong degree(s)
Too many degrees
Wrong field
Not working in the government
Not working hard enough
Not playing the game
Not having a personality
Living in the wrong place
Not having experience HC fields
Not knowing enough about technology
Knowing too much about technology (programmers and such)
Aiming too high
Aiming too low
Not being the right kind of person (alluded to)

So do I have them all? Did I get that right according to the cadre of The President Obama Standards Protection League? It is important as we have issues to hide under the rug! It is so fucking amazing that our dear leader can be excused ANYTHING but a person out of work, or hideously underemployed? Fuck them!

Oh yes, you have the DUdg squad down pat. We are the misfits in a new world order of half-truths and propaganda that is practiced so freely on a site that is called ...what is the name? Oh yes! DEMOCRATIC! That's it! The first word! Not some moderate shit hole, but Democratic! This means something should it not? It means for the reality/history challenged a group that will ALWAYS fight for the little guy. But times have changed and we will accept really anything that has a kinda, maybe liberal stench, well kinda.

Notice the use of kinda well? Well that election coming up? We are going to do kinda well, as in kinda well loose, as we have simpering apologista and support of issues, real and tangible being swept away, from rights, to the economy, to the wars, to the budget and the list goes on. But keep on doing this wall around, and not question the motives of a group that likes to elected for the perks. Piss off the real people hurting and that's how you loose. So if we are doing so fucking well, how is it that Obama polls like a deranged Carter zombie? Oh yes, we are doing fucking great!

So it's my fault, and a am in a big club of our faults and no possible fault of the people leading us. We magically caved the economy, bought houses (I did not), so my blame number is a fraction below my fellow blamesters, that of couse unless we were doing employment stats, destroyed all vestiges of trust in our economy, Wall Street, finance, fair play, and justice.

Yes indeedy we did that ALL! And to think we are unemployed or underemployed! We did THAT!

[geckosfeet]

57. Glad that you are not bitter about things, like the other doom and gloomers.

[Safetykitten]

58. I always like to be on the sunny side of the street, like this report.

[Divernan]

73. AMEN! You speak for me and many, many other Americans.

I was retired and doing pretty well until the 2008 economic debacle wiped out nearly all of my savings/investments. Now I am over 65, with 3 degrees, and scrambling for anything to make enough money to pay my property taxes and hang on to my modest home. For two summers I worked the sweltering streets of this country as a census worker. Couldn't find anything for the last 14 months but then got a "casual employee" status job with the Post Office. This involves working overnight shifts on a factory floor of a distribution center, with ear-splitting noise from monstrously large sorting machines, and my shoving around pallets (on casters) with 600 lbs. of packages on them. I end my shift barely able to walk.

I was hired in November for a nominal 89 day period. That means it would not be classified as seasonal employment. However, my job ends the week after Christmas, (if my body will hold out that long) so practically it IS seasonal employment, despite being counted in the stats as "a real job!"

The pay? A munificent $11 an hour. It takes 4 gallons of gas plus turnpike tolls to commute to the job each night.

There are people as old as 80 working this job - believe me, no one would do this kind of mind-numbing, back breaking work if they were not desperate for income.

So don't let the head-in-the-clouds defenders of the Great Leader, lightly dismiss "people who are retired" as if they're just working for a lark, or a little extra pocket change.

My god, it is pathetic to see the elderly working at physical labor jobs. Every damn one of our politicians and corporate board members should be forced to work night shifts, 7 days a week, and THEN let them spew their crap about raising the eligibility age for Social Security or Medicare! Easy for someone sitting at a computer and getting paid to whore for politicians, to post garbage that since life expectancy has increased, we should raise retirement ages. The facts are that people are living longer but in poorer health, and particularly people whose work involves physical labor are NOT able to keep going into their 70's.

[Occulus]

148. I have been doing that exact job for close to 13 years

I have around 15 years with the USPS.

You are absolutely correct that it is back-breaking, hard physical labor. My only consolation is that I've never had to join a gym- I get paid to 'lift weights'!

:evilfrown:

[paulk]

88. +1

[Democat]

106. Some here would complain if the unemployment rate were 4%

Some people are happy to be unhappy.

[No Elephants]

120. Denial often makes folks happier. In fact, that's often why they choose it.

[Hotler]

42. Congratulations to those that found jobs. eom.

[DollyM]

48. I guess I will look like a part of these "good statistics" when my UI is up in January!

I hate the way they count the unemployed. Just because you run out of unemployment payments doesn't mean you are employed! Mine runs out in January and I am scared to death because I have no other options. Unemployment is only 600.00 a month for me anyway so it is not like I have been living well for the past year.

[DollyM]

51. unemployment in my area is UP, not down!

Our unemployment rate in my county is now at 12 percent and that is higher than it was last year!

[hugo_from_TN]

90. The unemployment numbers have nothing to do with unemployment insurance payments.

If your payments run out in January (and I'm hoping you find a job before then), then you still count as unemployed as long as you are seeking employment.

[DollyM]

95. how do they know you are seeking employment if you aren't getting unemployment?

I was looking for work for two years before finding a job then getting laid off. I know I was counted in those numbers then because I was not registered in any way at the unemployment office. I know many of us are not and are still seeking work.

[pinqy]

97. They ask...it's a survey, not a count. n/t

[No Elephants]

119. Do you have a link?

[Johnny2X2X]

53. Good News

You can pick these numbers apart, but the fact is we've been adding jobs for almost 2 years now after the Bush losses were stopped.

Numbers do matter and this has got to be awful news for any Righty out there. How about these numbers? Unemployment rate in US for November 1983, 8.5%.

[Skittles]

55. just don't look behind the curtain

[SmittynMo]

70. That's because, behind the curtain, you will find,,,,

the remaining people that are still unemployed, not receiving a check. Recent numbers are 16-25% total unemployment.

[Skittles]

99. yes

and jobs still being pimped offshore

[zipplewrath]

56. Ya have to know how to "read" numbers

This numbers are "good" if you want to see a Democratic President in 2013. If you have issues outside of that goal, there are far more numbers to read about. If the rate gets below 8%, and a few other factors don't figure in (wars, oil prices, scandals) there is a chance of Obama getting re-elected. It probably has to get below 8% by next June or so, August at the very latest. Of course everyone would feel better if it were 6%, but I don't think ANYone is suggesting that.

Trends don't always continue. The reason that Obama wants the payroll tax cut so bad is because it's about the only stimulus he still has going. Lose that, and he could see these numbers stagnate. Despite what one might think about stimulus, or Obama's version. or anything else, if we want him re-elected, it's about all he has.

And let's hope Europe gets its act together soon. A major collapse could reverse theses numbers.

[No Elephants]

122. This thread contains a lot of good info about the BLS numbers.

I would always rather be in reality and forthright about how I "read" anything, from the BLS numbers to any number of things that have happened or not happened since Obama took office. If I had to "read" all of them in the way likeliest to get Obama re-elected, I would be one delusional soul.

No matter how bad the numbers are, I don't want Romney, Gingrich or Huntsman to be President, but, IMO, nothing good can come from denial or delusion of self or others, except possibly in extreme cases of physical or emotion trauma.

And no, the mere thought of President Romney, while horrifying, is not the kind of extreme trauma to which I am referring.

[2Design]

64. Rick Scott Governor of Florida is already taking credit - he wants to break unions

Another criminal in office

[Divernan]

65. "More than 1/2 of falling rate was result of people dropping out of the labor force."

According to the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors.

U.S. unemployment drops to 8.6 percent as people leave workforce
Friday, December 02, 2011

The national unemployment rate fell four-tenths of a percentage point to 8.6 percent in October, its lowest level since March 2009, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported this morning.

Despite the lowered rate, there was not immediate cheering from The White House because the number of jobs gained , which is listed in a separate survey, only totalled 120,000 -- just about enough to keep unemployment steady in a regular month.

Alan B. Krueger, the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, noted that in the survey of households, which is what determines the unemployment rate, more than half of the falling unemployment rate was a result of people dropping out of the labor force.

"We need faster growth to put more Americans back to work," he said in a statement released after the labor department issued its monthly report.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11336/1194127-100.stm#ixzz1fOqofAsI

[No Elephants]

121. According to the BLS website, the survey of households (who is surveyed, btw?) is only

one of a number of factors it uses to calculate the unemployment rate.

http://www.bls.gov/bls/unemployment.htm

I see lots of leeway for fudging in the methodology.

[chervilant]

66. Of note,

is the grim fact that most of these "additional" jobs are seasonal.

Just what we need: more rampant hedonism for the pseudo-spiritual paean to the mythical sky gods.

[sc518387]

67. Unemployment rate falls to lowest since March 2009

Nice forum.  As an African American, I'm not too excited about
the latest unemployment figure, considering that unemployment
for African Americans is hovering around 16%.  The black youth
of this city (Washington DC) are suffering; I know because I
have teenage relatives and friends with teenagers who are
roaming the streets (getting into trouble) because they don't
have a job.  8.6 is misleading and I hope the president
doesn't get so excited to the point that he loses sight of
this catastrophic problem that is affecting the black
community across this country more than any other group.

[julian09]

85. Teenagers should be in school

hope you encourage them to graduate, unemployment is proportional to education. A few more years in school can make a big difference in their lives.

[No Elephants]

144. I suspect the Black Caucus reminds him. (And I loves me some members of the

Black Caucus.)

[SmittynMo]

69. But,,,,,

Even though the numbers look good, it does not take into account the people that have fallen off the train, and are still looking (me included). The real numbers are 16-25% unemployment in this country. Quite sad!!!!

[hugo_from_TN]

91. Yes, it includes people looking for work who have run out of benefits.

It is a myth that it doesn't.

[SmittynMo]

103. I am not a part of the numbers

The govt, nor any polling of any kind, has any idea I'm unemployed. No one calls me to get my employment status. I am unemployed, and have been actively looking for work for the past 6 months. I was a contractor for 5 months this year and am ineligible for unemployment benefits. Even though I paid 46% taxes for the 5 months I worked this year I cannot collect unemployment, based on 1.5 years of contracting. Do you think I'm part of the unemployed reported in the article. Think again. I am sure there are many more like me, that go uncounted. Thus he real unemployment is predicted at 16-25%.

[No Elephants]

124. It woudl be very interesting to know whom BLS DOES survey every month and how they know

whom to survey on a month by month basis to get the most accurate information.

[No Elephants]

123. No, it is not a myth. Please see Reply 117 and the BLS website generally.

[fascisthunter]

71. sure it did

[cottonseed]

72. Get that shit outta here! This is DU dammit!

[Beacool]

75. The numbers are somewhat disingenuous

Job Mirage
315,000 Drop Out Of Workforce, Driving Unemployment Rate To Three-Year Low

Despite a stark drop in the national unemployment rate reported Friday, economists warned it will take decades for the labor market to return to pre-recession employment levels if the economy's achingly slow growth continues.

The U.S. economy added 120,000 jobs in November -- falling short of economists' expectations -- while the unemployment rate dipped from 9.0 to 8.6 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday morning. But roughly half of the decline in the unemployment rate came from the 315,000 Americans who dropped out of the labor market last month, in part a reflection of the slow pace of the recovery, economists said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/02/jobs-report-december-november-2011_n_1125180.html

[Doctor_J]

84. I don't see how those two graphs can be spun as good news by ANYONE

what a train wreck

[Beacool]

92. Yep, that it is............

:(

[wobblie]

78. for what a real economist say 's about the report

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/

[louis-t]

In SPITE of repug interference.

Repugs wil try to take credit for this. "See, destroying the economy and killing jobs creates jobs!!!!11"

[louis-t]

79. In SPITE of repug interference.

Repugs wil try to take credit for this. "See, destroying the economy and killing jobs creates jobs!!!!11"

[pam4water]

80. That is all happy horse shit. Most of it is form the size of the labor pool shrinking..

[DCBob]

96. The labor force has been shrinking since around year 2000.

There are other forces at play besides the current economic crisis.

[Doctor_J]

81. I don't get these numbers. Every day it's different news

Why the hell would they not count those who have given up among the UE?

[Skittles]

100. HELLO

they cannot tell us the TRUTH Doctor_J - we might become PESSIMISTIC and STOP BUYING CHEAP MADE IN CHINA JUNK

[DFW]

83. Much as I'm ready for some good news

315,000 unemployed people who have given up hope, and have given up looking for work are NOT suddenly "employed."

[Kingofalldems]

86. I like this one.

Internet repubs scrambling to find a hit piece on Democrats to divert attention away from this.

[nineteen50]

87. Someone is frightened enough to turn the trillions they have been holding

into jobs. Capitalism buying off the proles?

[LanternWaste]

93. This thread illustrates to me that any number...

This thread illustrates to me that any number can be interpreted to validate one's own position (regardless of what it is) and tear down the positions of others (regardless of what they are). Sheesh.

[Scurrilous]

94. K & R

:thumbsup:

[mvd]

102. Good news. I think the people giving up..

and the underemployed factor in, though. At the least, it's good for Obama's chances.

[demicritic]

145. Not another political propaganda

Unemployment down? Lets just hope this is not another spruce up on another presidential candidates name and reputation.