Obama to Unions: I Back You, But You Must 'Sacrifice'

[Yon_Yonson]

Source: Government Executive.com

Obama to Unions: I Back You, But You Must 'Sacrifice'
By Tom Shoop Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:42 AM


At a town hall meeting in Decorah, Iowa, yesterday, President Obama offered a defense of public sector labor unions, particularly against efforts at the state level to scale back their collective bargaining rights.

But at the same time, the president delivered what has become a standard "on the other hand" part of his statements on budget issues -- that public employees are going to have to experience "shared sacrifice and burden sharing" when it comes to cutting the cost of government.

Here's video of the town hall:



Read more: http://blogs.govexec.com/fedblog/2011/08/obama_to_unions_i_back_you_but.php

---

I have finally reached a conclusion as why Prez Obama has stayed away from Wisconsin

After reading this and viewing the video Herr Walker and the Prez are buds and see Collective Bargaining from the same eye!

[Harmony Blue]

1. Self Sacrifice is turning into a self inflcited wound on the Democratic party

Enough!

[CarmanK]

17. IT'S SHARED SACRIFICE! The Unions have negotiated in good faith!

They have made their sacrifices. The problem is that while all of US are sacrificing, the wealthy have not been made to feel the pain of paying for two wars, unwarranted tax cuts and a slowing economy.

[Kablooie]

48. If EVERYONE were sacrificing this statement might be appropriate but that's not the case.

(I know I'm just saying the same thing you were, but heck, I wanted to say it too.)

[Sherman A1]

115. +1, Agreed & Well Said!

Let me join you in your comments and add from the working class...

"We get the sacrifice.... They get the Shares."

[PatrynXX]

53. they have sacrificed in good faith and Scott Walker

slit their throat for it.

They would not let go of collective bargaining. the health care issue they were willing to up the fees for. So when spewing stuff at obama listen more carefully. Obama is fairly on the mark on this. Which is rare lately.

[FedUp_Queer]

152. Wouldn't you love this headline.

President speaks to the American Bankers Association and says the following:

By the good graces of the tax payers of this country you have jobs. They have bailed you out. By the sweat of their brows are you housed, clothed and fed. It is now time for you to forgo bonuses and pay increases for 10 years. It is now time for you to take what would have been bonuses and pay increases to give low interest loans to small entrepreneurs and to refinance fraudulent mortgages and homes that are in foreclosure. If you don't, I will go to the Congress to begin the process of nationalizing and breaking off banks and selling of their assets to regional buyers to considerably shrink your size.



AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...perchance to dream.

[JDPriestly]

172. In fact, the bankers and brokers argued at the time of the bail-out

and shortly thereafter that their pay could not be cut as a part of the bail-outs or in the aftermath of the bail-outs -- BECAUSE THE BANKERS AND BROKERS HAD CONTRACTS. THE CONTRACTS OF THE BANKS WERE SACROSANCT. Yet now, Obama is asking public employees to make "sacrifices."

OBAMA NEEDS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE NOW THINKS THAT CONTRACTS DON'T HAVE TO BE RESPECTED.

[FedUp_Queer]

175. EXACTLY!!!

And who, pray tell, was at the center of the contracts are sacrosanct, we have to pay them 100 cents on the dollar nonsense (particularly when it came to Goldman Sachs)? You guessed, Timothy "the Bull" Geithner. I wonder what he'd look like in an orange jumpsuit. Again, perchance to dream.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Bozita]

11. +1

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Butch350]

32. Bozita...I love the BIG BUS picture! ;))))))

[Bozita]

35. How 'bout this one?

[Lorien]

84. Hmmm...I thought the fund drive graphic was missing something

;-)

[Shining Jack]

135. Lol!

I thought the same thing when I first saw it. :rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

156. +1000!

:rofl:

[Carolina]

25. K&R

Obaminable repuke!

[blueclown]

36. This is the problem with American politics right here.

This type of uncivilized, contributes-nothing unintelligent discourse.

[Occulus]

62. What the hell do you expect when our jobs and homes and the ability to feed ourselves and

our families are on the line? Sternly-worded letters? Protests?

When we start not being housed or fed, are you going to take us in? No? Well, then.

We've tried discourse, and that hasn't worked, so here's a demand: Barack Obama, an election's coming. GIVE US A FUCKING JOBS PROGRAM OR ELSE.

How's that for civilized? We tell, he does. It's a relationship that works for one of both of us.

[woo me with science]

64. Thank you. nt

[No Elephants]

73. What's wrong with protests?

[Occulus]

164. Apart from being IGNORED, you mean?

Nothing at all. Protest to your heart's content.

Just know they won't even bother looking in your direction unless your protest also causes some major inconvenience or shuts something down. Then you'll be called a "hooligan" or an "anarchist".

In other words, you, me, us... we can't win.

Not like that.

[No Elephants]

74. What's wrong with protests?

[snooper2]

45. Okay, so what's your fix? How do you fix Rhode Island?

How can you have people working from lets say 20-60 years old, 40 years of working with a good salary

And then support that person for another 40 years with 70-80% of that same income. Of course adjusted yearly for inflation...

Show me the numbers...

Just tax everyone who makes over $250K a year 70% right? I still don't think that would generate enough revenue--

[No Elephants]

50. Single payer, stop warring, raise taxes, cut other spending.

[alarimer]

195. Yes, single payer health care would immediately reduce those cost.

People who are opposed to these pension plans need to have their heads examined. They never seem to think that it will be them someday having to decide between food and medicine. Yes, we are living longer, which is a big part of the problem because that also increases the health care costs at the end of their lives.

No, correct that. LAWYERS and ACCOUNTANTS (and others in professional-type desk jobs) are living longer. Bricklayers are not. You cannot ask someone who has worked a physically demanding job to work at it longer. And those types of jobs don't usually carry the benefits unless they are union jobs. But it isn't fair to ask those people to sacrifice more. It just isn't.

I ask anybody who wants to raise the retirement age or reduce benefits to ask themselves, how will YOU survive under those conditions?

[Pholus]

92. Mean life expectancy in U.S. = 78 so that's 18, not 40 years. You exaggerate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Additionally, that person worked for FORTY years. Rare in my experience these days.

And you know what? I'd settle for the over $250K to pay MY tax rate, not half of it.

[kenfrequed]

158. Uhm

I'm not clear here.

Are you talking about pensions or social security?

I suppose it doesn't matter as your numbers are the shoddy 'privatize social security' crowd spews so bloody often.

In the case of public pensions I would recommend the same thing that I would to private pensions. Stop raiding and borrowing from them.

I guess that applies to social security too for that matter.

In any case, all three are self funded so leave them alone! Social security is solvent. It is our nations willingness to borrow from it and desire to skip out on paying that fund back that makes up part of the problem. That problem can be solved (partially) by ending stupid Bush era tax cuts, getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, closing unneeded overseas military installations.

If you wanted to get really crazy you could also:

Cancel any 'no bid' contract and force any contractor to have to bid competatively for any government contract.

End extended subcontracting that allows a few huge mega-corps like Halliburton and KBR to dominate all transactions with the military and add extra waste (profit) atop things that they knew they couldn't do even when they were bidding.

Close loopholes that allow for off shore tax holidays or whatever other nonsense Wallstreet is clammering for.

the list goes on and on and on...

[JDPriestly]

174. You can do it because of increased productivity due to

technological development. That is how. If there were jobs for people who are 72 and not as quick and strong as their younger counterparts who are also unemployed, then you could raise the retirement age without destroying people's lives.

But in the current economy, it would make much more sense to raise the cap on the Social Security tax and pay for the longer retirements.

If there were jobs, people would delay retirement. There just aren't enough jobs.

And you would be surprised. As one who is over 65, I have to say that even though we live longer and are lucky enough not to have diabetes or a bad heart or high blood pressure or a disability of some other sort, we don't have anywhere near the agility, strength and speed that we had just a few years earlier.

I couldn't comprehend this either -- not when I was 30, not when I was 40, not when I was 50, and not even when I was 60 -- but we all age. Some things just deteriorate. There is nothing you can do about it. Aging is a transition to death. Momento mori. A distressing but inevitable fact.

Momento mori

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori

As for 80% retirement pensions, I have only found that rate applicable to military pensions after many years of service. Some highly paid executives and their high-level counterparts in government get very large pensions. That is it. Teachers and others get big pensions if they contributed to their pension fund during their working years. Other people save money in IRAs and 401(K)s.
Other than that, you have a tough time finding anyone who gets a pension of 80% of salary.

Google it --maybe firemen or policemen get those kinds of pensions.

Obama is ignorant about these things. Sorry to say it, but he is.

[Brickbat]

3. How is unions "sacrificing" going to help anything? Really? How does someone retiring at 58

instead of 55 help another worker's 401(k)? Shame on Obama.

[Harmony Blue]

4. Exactly!

We have been abandoned. Solidarity my union brothers and sisters!

[Yon_Yonson]

8. As a semi retired non union worker

I will stand side by side, shoulder to shoulder with union workers!

[Sadie5]

173. Not buying it Yon

Your title is misleading. I also have noticed a bunch of low count posters in this thread. So you're non union but willing to stand with your fellow union workers. Seems more like mislead your fellow union workers IMPOV

[Yon_Yonson]

183. I am not looking for your approval and I will say ....

I have been to most ever Wisconsin protest since the snow started falling on a cold February day. The people at UAW 95 were kind enough to give me a couple of bus rides north to Madison. I have canvassed for signatures on recall petitions, volunteered for Kloppenburg, done exit polling, volunteered for WISDEMs and next I shall canvass for the recall of Herr Walker. If the unions call for a general strike I SHALL be on the picket line! So be the particulars regardless of whether or not it meets your approval or not.

My name is Yon Yonson,
I come from Wisconsin.
I work in a lumber yard there.
Everyone that I meet
When I walk down the street,
Says "Hello! What's your name?"
And I say: My name is Yon Yonson...

[Yon_Yonson]

197. UAW buses to protest in Madison Wisconsin

Oh bye the way we have 18% unemployment in this area because GM plant closed down a few years back. The UAW tour buses of which I hitched a ride were only half full with lots of empty seats. I was welcomed by the Union folks as sort of an oddity but welcomed just the same. I was told that back when the plant was in full swing they would have had no problem filling the buses to capacity.

[Plucketeer]

33. I couldn't have said it better! nt

[Myrina]

5. I hope he got boo'ed off the stage.

n/t

[xchrom]

6. Oh well. Nt

[bemildred]

7. Well, we are going to sacrifice you to start with. nt

[kath]

20. Yep. I will not vote for this shit.

Period.

[BlueIris]

119. No kidding.

Exactly how does he expect to pull out a win here, without union support? Unions were critical to his effort last time. Without them, he has nothing. The one thing that baffles me the most about this person is his strategy. It makes no sense.

[Overseas]

9. They have been forced to sacrifice too much already.

Wish he would stop pushing sacrifice for the poor and middle class and turn more ire on the Chamber of Commerce.

And stop pretending that tax cuts for the mega-rich create jobs and shouldn't be rescinded right now.

[GodlessBiker]

10. This is infuriating when mill/billionaires are not being asked to sacrifice anything!

He has capitulated. So disappointing.

[No Elephants]

67. I don't think he capitulated. I think he believes in what he is doing.

I don't believe in what he is doing, but I think he does.

He's been appointing Republicans, DLCers and corporatists since he first got elected. Rahm, Geithener, Summers, Goolbee, Gates, etc. were huge clues.

He vowed to cut entitlements before he was even inaugurated.

To whom was he capitulating then?

[blindpig]

148. 'Belief' means nothing, action everything. n/t

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[ZombieHorde]

15. That is a very poor analogy to use for a black person in the US.

Our history of hanging black people in the South demands some sensitivity in my opinion.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Roy Rolling]

16. "I back you"

With friends like him, who needs enemies.

We don't want him to "back us", we want him to stand up for what is fair and equitable for ordinary working employees after 30 years of exploitation by the wealthiest citizens and corporations of this country. Citizens and companies who became wealthy because of government policies that favored them and put ordinary employees at a competitive disadvantage by making them compete with slave wages and conditions overseas. Despite gains in productivity---meaning employees are producing more and working harder----ordinary employees' incomes have grown a tiny bit compared to companies and managers whose incomes have grown an enormous amount over the same period.

Here's 25 cents, somebody give it to Obama so he can buy a clue.

[Shining Jack]

139. I think that it was misquoted.

What he really said is "I backstab you"

[primavera]

18. When you make this same speech to corporate employers...

... and invite them to share in the sacrifice by giving up a few of their private jets, yachts, and platinum limos, then I'll take this seriously. Until then, you're just a hypocritical PR tool of corporate America calling for purely one-sided concessions.

[OKDem08]

23. where was this attitude w/the banking bailout?!?!?!?!

[primavera]

24. Lol! Actually, I said the same thing then, too.

But you know how it is, no one ever listens to liberals, we're too "lunatic fringe," you know.

[bemildred]

27. "Thank God it passed!!!"

:sarcasm:

[Pholus]

93. YES! +1

[Sarah Ibarruri]

130. A lackey. nt

[kath]

19. Fuck. That. Shit.

Resign already and admit you're a Republican, asshole.

[radhika]

21. Shared Sacrifice but Private Profits?

I am amazed that media always conflates Sharing + Sacrifice. This is done straight-faced with a parental tsk-tsk tone that is meant to keep US in OUR places. This is usually followed by a sober call to cut corporate tax rates or surrender critical social goods.

When is the last time there was a robust open call for Shared Profits or Shared Prosperity? A strong sense of justice that demanded corporations equitably share the profits they accrued thanks to worker's productivity, tax loopholes and Congressional enabling?

[Bozita]

31. Ms. Peaches has already learned that lesson

[marions ghost]

82. Yeah

n/t

[Proletariatprincess]

26. Why the constant race to the bottom?

Why do USAmericans think it is ok to bring down every labor standard to the lowest level instead of striving to raise all standards to the highest?
Why this fear that someone else might get a little more instead of wanting more for everyone?
This is just stupid and mean spirited. It hurts everyone and it is why the USA is quickly becoming a 2nd class nation.
To hear the US President spout this garbage is more than disturbing, but not surprising. Democrats have been bashing labor for decades now and, it goes without saying that Republicans are the mortal enemy of Collective Bargaining and free trade unionism.
Obama is not on our side. He is not one of us. He is one of the Them. We know now for sure which side he is on.

[bulloney]

120. Here's an analogy I used when working for a farm membership organization to describe farmers.

I think it applies to a lot of Americans in general:

"You have a cow. I don't. I hope your cow dies."

[awoke_in_2003]

28. vulgar language alert....

raise the motherfucking taxes and the motherfucking wealthy like a large majority of motherfucking americans approve.

[Overseas]

29. Did he say exactly HOW he backs unions?

By giving Boehner 98% of what he wanted?

[svpadgham]

143. He's right behind them...

telling them to go jump in a lake.

[Citizen Worker]

30. Union workers have been sacrificing since 1976 and what has all of the sacrifice brought us? More

sacrifice. Enough! Well past the time to take it to the streets.

[Kall]

34. What does Wall Street have to sacrifice?

Oh right, nothing. They get trillions post-haste after doing the financial equivalent of blowing up the world.

[uberblonde]

37. What does "back you" mean?

Stab you in the back at every available opportunity?

[truth2power]

141. What it means is meaningless blather. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing. n/t

[russspeakeasy]

38. Do not ask questions....Do not remember...Do not ask questions..

Do not remember....if you do, you are an Obama basher....Do not ask questions....

[leveymg]

39. Obama is an instigator of that "natural backlash" against public sector workers. He legitimizes it.

He's just not the guy I knocked 4,000 doors for in '08. Fooled me once, Barack . . .

[TBF]

40. Fuck that - when are the rich going to sacrifice? nt

[earcandle]

41. No Obama, this is about you and Congress doing the job of running a skilled tough government:

"Accounting for Government and Nonprofit Entities " MacGraw Hill Co. 2007
Posted by earcandle in Latest Breaking News
Mon Aug 15th 2011, 08:53 PM
Earl R. Wilson; Susan C. Kattelus; Jacqueline L. Reck C)2007
Library of Congress Cataloging-in Publication Data:

IBSN-13: 978-0-07-310095-1

IBSN-10: 0-07-310095-1

Wilson, Earl R., 1939.

Jacqueline L. Reck 14th Edition (2007)


Chapter 3, pg 75; 6 Para. Heading: TAXES

" Taxes are of particular importance because (1) They provide a large portion of the revenue of governmental units on all levels and
(2) they are compulsory contributions to the cost of government, whether the affected taxpayer approves or disapproves of the taxes.

Ad valorem (based on value) property taxes area mainstay of financing for many local governments but are not used as a source of revenue
by many state governments or by the federal government. Ad valorem taxes may be levied against real property and personal property. SOme property taxes are levied on a basis other than property values, one illustration being the tax on some kinds of financial institutions in relation to the deposits aat a specified date. Other kinds of taxes are sales taxes, income taxes, gross receipts taxes, death and gift taxes, and interest and penalties on delinquent taxes."

[theaocp]

42. Mr. President, this is called a line in the sand.

My union and I do not feel like making any sacrifices. None. What now? I guess you better go after the richie-rich class. Feel free to get your balls back from the Republicans any time now. We'll be waiting.

[Autumn]

43. I think Obama is lying. He does not back the Unions, hell I am

pretty sure he doesn't even back poor Americans.

[slay]

44. How about millionaires and billionaires and the WARS do a bit of sacrificing first?

tax the rich and end these pointless wars first - otherwise don't even try this bullshit Obama. :mad:

[truebrit71]

46. "You first"

...and your rich donors/friends...

[The Northerner]

87. +1

[DreamSmoker]

47. same tactics used on us

This is the very same Bullshit tactics used by Repukes..
Obama is either for the American Union Worker or not..
Its apparent.. He's NOT...
Just more Politics does not make a Good leader...

[caseymoz]

49. Wow. I'm electrified. I'm ready to |||compromise||| for my rights . . .

. . . and compromise my opponents to the death.

Obama, our commander and de-motivator.

Follow him, and workers' rights are finished.

[qb]

We have sacrificed again and again and again.

While the wealthy stash their tax cuts offshore & union-busting corporations are rewarded for shipping jobs overseas.
Stop being a doormat, Mr. President, and stand up for working Americans.

[qb]

51. We have sacrificed again and again and again.

While the wealthy stash their tax cuts offshore & union-busting corporations are rewarded for shipping jobs overseas.
Stop being a doormat, Mr. President, and stand up for working Americans.

[colsohlibgal]

52. I Can't Believe He Had The Nerve To Say That.

I know he's now the president but when I heard that I audibly shouted "bite me". Public Employees and Grannies who need medicine should sacrifice but not billionaires?

My democratic party has been hijacked.

[MissDeeds]

54. Wonder if he said the same thing to Wall Street

Or corporations that don't pay any income tax. I am do damn done with this pathetic excuse for a "Dem" president.

[eilen]

95. I'd sure like to hear how he broke it to Mr. "Jeff" Immelt.

That shared sacrifice thing and how he would need to understand how the perception of big corporations like GE makes the rest of Americans "a little upset" when they see that such a large corporation is giving bonuses to executives while shipping jobs overseas and not paying taxes. That it's time for "reform" and some sacrifice and pea-eating....



"Jeffrey Immelt, the head of Barack Obama's highly touted "Jobs Council", is moving even more GE infrastructure to China. GE makes more medical-imaging machines than anyone else in the world, and now GE has announced that it "is moving the headquarters of its 115-year-old X-ray business to Beijing". "

[AllyCat]

55. He knows he doesn't need us in 2012. He has PLENTY of corporate backing

I'll concentrate my efforts on candidates that support unions AND subsequently, all American workers. This guy is done.

[BlueJac]

56. Obamarama.............

shared sacrifice.........Bush tax cuts for the rich..........stick it up your ass. Keep your fucking hands off my social security that I paid into my entire life. Maybe the Defense Budget should share some fucking sacrifice too!!! Let's cut all medical and pensions for all Congressman and Senators, shared sacrifice. Let's get our money back from Wall Street....shared sacrifice. Obama you got my last vote in 2008 now it's your turned for shared sacrifice. I hate getting back stabbed by the asshole I help elect!!!!

[saras]

57. Sacrifice? Sure. Bring me bankers, and I will tear out their still-beating hearts...

...and give them to the Sun God.

And like everyone else that's tried sacrifice as a technique, we'll find that it doesn't work.

[newspeak]

193. oh, I love that one saras

"Bring me bankers and I will tear out their still beating hearts and give them to the sun god.":evilgrin: Now that's a sacrifice.

[Jakes Progress]

58. Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

So out of touch it is amazing.

[a simple pattern]

59. And you'd better be nice and agreeable about this "sacrifice,"

because we're going to "impose" it with or without "conversation."

What an asshole.

[democrank]

60. I can hardly bear to listen to him anymore.

[infidel dog]

71. Tell us more, Mr. President, about how the working class needs to suffer more than we already are...

I don't think we're doing enough to support our precious financial sector. Jesus. Everytime this guy opens his mouth, a rethug crawls out.

[AngryOldDem]

76. You and me both.

What an absolute disappointment. I feel scammed -- yet again.

[alp227]

61. He's not helping fight the right-wing smear about public employees draining budgets

when he's echoing or appeasing. Seriously. Or maybe the conservatives ARE right...those darned public employees ARE bankrupting states!

[laureloak]

63. Here in NC state employees don't have collective bargaining

and we're doing okay. I don't see anything wrong with what the President is saying.

[eilen]

96. I guess that is why the convention is there.. Everyone is happy happy happy.

Maybe next month they might decide to lay half of you off or cancel pensions. All workers should have the right to organize.

I bet back in the old days there were apologists for slave owners too. The slaves look happy, they are singing by god! Nice little cottages are provided.... They are lucky to have a roof over their heads....

[newspeak]

192. wow, I'm happy for you

Utah is also a right to work state and I remember an article in the Salt Lake Tribune that a large percentage of public employees were on food stamps because they couldn't make ends meet for their families. They must be happy also.

[Chef Eric]

65. Chef Eric to Obama: I back you, but you'll never get another penny from me. NT

[truth2power]

168. He doesn't need another penny from you....

His financial pals are taking care of him quite well. Thank you very much.

[JJW]

66. Record perks & bonuses for Wall St

Record tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires.

And austerity for thee. Mr. O calls that shared sacrifice just like war is peace and just like slashing social security, medicare, and medicaid while increasing tax cuts for global corporations and spending even more on defense, is... called his balanced approach.

Hillary Clinton got it right when she screamed; shame on you Barack Obama.

Bill Clinton got it right when he said give me a break, this guy is a fairy tale.

[madrchsod]

68. obama just threw collective bargaining under the bus.

the assholes that are sitting across the table from my wife and the rest of the unions negotiating team are jumping for now that obama has given them everything they need to fuck over her union.


"shared sacrifice" ..what a cowardly thing to say.

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. Once Obama latches onto a phrase, he won't let it go no matter how bad it sounds or how many people

it pisses off, or how hypocritical it shows him too be. :shrug:


WTH is wrong with him, or doesn't he give a rat's ass? :shrug:

[Beacool]

70. And this is the man that the left carried on their shoulders in 2008.

If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

Thanks for nothing, next time do your due diligence.

;(

[99th_Monkey]

72. Since when does being "partners in reform" mean bending over

and taking it in the rear?

AND this whole "shared sacrifice" line of bullshit is just that, without the richest 1% paying their fair share.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

75. I went to the first Town Hall Costa Mesa, CA has ever held last night....

The cost of pensions which is still outstanding on the books must be paid at a time when there is high unemployment and little revenue. The earlier bargained rights of public union workers now appear self-destructive. I don't like it one bit, but the options aren't there.

[Lorien]

85. Raise taxes on the rich and corporations, penalize those who outsource

and end the wars. There will be revenue again.

[eilen]

97. The fact that Costa Mesa did not fund their pensions

when times were high is not the fault of the retirees.

[newspeak]

198. that's right!!!

and look what happened to pensions in Florida and Ohio? coin scam in Ohio and enronized in Florida. It is not the fault of the pensioner that they were being scammed. Actually, I think some of that pension money was being divert to RNC coffers.

Big business has spent a lot of money and corporate media has helped bringing down unions and labor. Union membership has gone down, wages for labor has not met the cost of living criteria for years. Americans better decide if they are going to fight for their interests or fight for corporate interest against themselves. I'm seeing a lot of americans who seem to have sort of Stockholm syndrome.

[Reader Rabbit]

77. Unions to Obama: You first.

And all your rich, corporate buddies.

[blueknight]

80. fuck that noise!

the pres can go piss up a rope! ive been in a union almost 40 years, and all we have done since the late 70's is sacrifice! i weep for the next generation...

[craigmatic]

78. If he backed union it was hard to see how.

[indy legend]

83. Why would he start being a Democrat now !!!!!

I worked hard for OBama and have defended him to right wing dip shits for 2 and a half years. But he makes it harder every day for me to argue on his behalf.

[eilen]

100. Encouraging words....

And I think I saw some blue linkies to an NLRB decision against Boeing of which I am not sure Obama has anything to do with except for his 3 appointments (the Board is chosen by the President). A General Counsel has been appointed to serve temporarily while awaiting nomination. Two of the members' terms will end in December as they were recess appointments. This is an improvement as the Board had only 2 members under Bush as Democrats threatened not to confirm any of his picks so Bush refused to nominate anyone.

However, in regard to public unions (per wiki):
"The Board's jurisdiction is limited to private sector employers and the United States Postal Service; other than Postal Service employees, it has no authority over labor relations disputes involving governmental, railroad and airline employees covered by the Adamson Railway Labor Act, or agricultural employees. On the other hand, in those parts of the private sector its jurisdictional standards are low enough to reach almost all employers whose business has any appreciable impact on interstate commerce."

[DEdem]

79. Is this opposed to what the unions have been doing until now?

Sheeeeeesh!!!

[GOTV]

81. Scoldy Obama goes after unions! I assume he solved all our real problems earlier today n/t

[Skittles]

86. he is lying - he does NOT back them

[harun]

89. I think he means "Back them in to a corner".

[katnapped]

88. Hope you people like President Perry then!

Obvious you and the unions never loved Obama (and are a tad racist as well, obviously)

:sarcasm:

[Pholus]

94. Too bad that's the only campaign slogan you have left, no?

And that is game, set and match. You got nothing other than that. And it's sad.

[BulletproofLandshark]

108. I take it you missed the "sarcsm" thing at the bottom. n/t

[Pholus]

109. Guilty as charged! Sorry....

Seen more than a few of those for real. It'd figure I'd blow my best comeback on the fake one.... ;)

[ScottLand]

90. K&R. "You have a nice foot, but too bad I have to shoot you there".

Why are WE the only ones being asked to sacrifice while the snobs at the top are saying "raise our taxes? 3%? In a recession?"

No, Obama needs to rethink who he wants to serve.

[fasttense]

91. Our wages have continually gone down for the last 30 years.

More of us are unemployed and living in poverty. There is record food stamp usage and bankruptcy among the middle class and poor. While banksters and corporations have been making record profits. The top 10th of 1% of Americans, the idle rich, have seen huge increases in income. And who does Obama ask to sacrifice? Not the idle rich, not the banksters and corporate aristocracy, who have sucked up our nation's wealth with their bailouts and almost zero percent interest rate give away by the Fed. NO, he asks those who have suffered the most to sacrifice.

He is just repeating the same worn out talking point the RepubliCONS use. He may believe it, who cares if he does. The end result is that Obama wants those suffering to suffer more so that the idle rich and oligarchs can live in the lap of luxury.

The only answer is the prolonged occupation of Washington DC. Join us in the fight for our lives.
http://october2011.org/welcome

[indy legend]

128. Don't worry. Soon he will ask you to "sacrifice" your food stamps to help

balance the budget after of coarse appointing a committee consisting or 6 people (3 tea bag republicans, 2 blue dog dems, 1 moderate dem and 0 progressive dems) to decide how much of your food stamps you need to "sacrifice" to make sure GE and exxon-mobile don't have to give up one more nickle. I wish I could put a sarcasm label on this but sadly we know how this game always ends. Another one under the bus. Thank you mr. President for giving America President Perry. CHECKMATE !!!!

[truth2power]

159. You know, I hadn't thought of it that way. There's a lot of talk about how,

if Perry or some other Repug crazy wins in 2012, it'll be the fault of those who are inaccurately termed "bashers" or 'haters". Actually, though, it'll be Obama's own fault.

If someone keeps abusing you and finally you get so sick of it that you throw them out of your house, whose fault is it that they're sitting on the street? :shrug:

[GarH]

98. re Backing Unions

Obama is a corporate whore. He's never backed the unions. There has been absolutely NO shared sacrifice. There has only been Obama giving away everything Democrats have fought for this century. The conservatives haven't given up anything. He's turned out to be an absolute curse upon the Democratic party.

[hulka38]

99. More brow beating of the wrong side.

[Hubert Flottz]

101. Sounds like Ronnie RayGun

I back you but I'm fixin' to fuck over you again.

[pasto76]

102. The NATIONAL average for unions control of work is 15-18% of their markets

even in the heyday back in the 50s, it was only 35%.

In Colorado, union ironworkers get 6-8% of the work.

Unions do not, by any stretch of the imagination, have a stranglehold on ANYTHING.

[quaker bill]

103. Turning down the thermostat

It is cold outside and oil is expensive. A solution for the expense of staying warm is to turn down the thermostat. The problem with this is solution that at some point we all freeze to death. This is the problem with "shared sacrifice". Anyone making more than minimum wage who has benefits can be compared to someone making less and questioned about whether they are "worth" the additional money, and this is where we are heading.

At one point most workers had some sort of retirement savings plan and health insurance through their employer. This was the "normal" against which public sector benefits were compared. As the private sector benefits have disappeared, corporate profits have increased, but anyone in the public or private sector that still retains these benefits is looked at as needing to make a "sacrifice" to "share the burden". With each step all jobs become increasingly similar to a greeter at Wal-Mart and the economy swirls around the drain just a little faster.

Of course, the other problem is that the "sacrifice" is not truly "shared" as the wealthy generally benefit through more income, profits, and less taxes.

[Pholus]

105. Absolutely. Remember that there was a time when the public sector benefits weren't that great.

So, is it that public sector really porked up or is it that the private sector chintzed out when they looted their pension funds in the 90's and their unhappy workers now want to drag everyone down?

[jerseyjack]

104. Don't Vote For Him. Don't Contribute. I Ain't Gonna !

[FlyByNight]

106. Just more DC-centric code speech

I wonder what brand of peas goes best with catfood?

As if American workers (both unionized and not) haven't made enough sacrifices already. High unemployment, plummeting housing prices and "'free' 'trade'" have decimated the middle-class. The already wealthy, Wall St., the MICC and other government-corporate entwined industries are doing very well - of course.

He sounds profoundly disingenuous. He's a very capable disaster capitalist. Good luck with your re-election Mr. President.

[florida08]

107. honest to God

Does he hear himself? He's putting the responsibility on what the banksters did to retirements on unions.
We haven't had a raise in 3 years and have taken a 3% pay cut.. as long as the COLA for SS is blocked we don't want a raise. Hell most of us are just glad we still are working. What these states did was fail to protect these pensions by giving away the payments they made in tax cuts and spending it for ridiculous boondoggles. Grand courthouses are popular where I live. Don't these local governments have an responsibility to meet their obligations just like we do?

Like the federal government "borrows" from SS..states borrow from pension funds. Likewise they 'forget' to pay it back. For Obama to sanction this kind of wrecklessness and deception is contemptuous. Retirements that were invested in Wall Street have been diminished. We're all in trouble. Even Geithner borrowed from the federal pension fund before the ceiling was raised. Did they pay it back?

[KoKo]

162. +!!!!

[Ed Suspicious]

110. How much has the presidential salary decreased in this time of

shared sacrifice? How much more are the congress critters paying for their health insurance? Maybe the supremes took a pension cut? Lots of talk of sharing, not many signs of backing that up.

[lunatica]

111. The fucking reason it's called "collective bargaining" is because the sacrifice is built in

As is the sharing of the proceeds. Fucking fuck!

Is Scott Walker's salary in question? Has he 'sacrificed' and cut his salary for the benefit of Wisconsin?

I belong to a union and I can't make it to the end of the month without borrowing money. I haven't had a raise in a decade and after my mother died I had to declare bankruptcy and go through months of foreclosure notices before I got a loan modification that's still too high.

[Freddie Stubbs]

112. He not running a primary campaign. He's running a general election campaign

He doing all he can to appeal to voters in the middle.

[JJW]

113. Such an arrogant corporate tool

Read my lips.... one term President.

Notice how he justified tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires, and the perks and bonuses for criminals on Wall Street. How he justified selling out the people for for-profit healthcare and the for-profit insurance cartel. How we the people are to share in the loses by bailing out criminals and reckless speculators, but never share in the profits that are privatized and stolen. All that the people get are austerity and their pensions stolen.

Heck of a job, Mr. O.

[Veilex]

114. I'm tired of the backhanded democracy...

He claims he wants unions to share in the sacrifice... last I checked, the non wealthy were the only ones suffering the pains of our economic inflictions. I don't call this a sacrifice... I call it a slaughter.

I'll be open to ADDITIONAL sacrifice when the rich (including corporations who haven't actually paid taxes) have begun to actually sacrifice.

We HAVE been sacrificing... and apparently its gone unnoticed.

No Mr. President. I will NOT sacrifice more. I'm done.

[fujiyama]

116. What more sacrifice?

Workers of all stripes have made plenty of sacrifices during this downturn. The people that haven't are those at the top - those that make their money, not really by working, but by "investing".

[AzDar]

117. Yesterday's 'Arizona Republic (an)' online poll asked : 'do you agree that taxes should be raised

on wealthiest Americans?'

80%+ answered 'yes'. Astonishing!


The People WANT this...why doesn't the President?:crazy:

[orbitalman]

118. Why doesn't he talk to the rich that way????? n/t

[Locrian]

121. riiiiiiigh....

because wall street and the corporations and the wealthy have sacrificed......ummm, what?

[peace frog]

122. Mr President, when the rich to sacrifice their fair share

THEN and only then can you ask us to sacrifice,,,and it will be MORE than our fair share, by the way.

[SHRED]

123. Yes...pay no attention to the following:

A medical insurance and care system that is draining the financial life (and in some cases actual life) out of Medicare, working people, and the companies they work for.
Trade agreements and weakening of trade tariffs that have wiped out the manufacturing base.
Years of financial institution deregulation capped by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 which led to the creation of toxic mortgage backed securities and subsequent housing bubble burst that wiped out middle class equity, home ownership, and spending power.
The 'Bush Tax Cuts', and recent extension thereof, which the CBO estimates is responsible for 60% of current debt.
Wars as far as the eye can see.
Billions of our tax dollars to foreign militarys such as in Pakistan.
The spending of multi-billions on a privatized prison system that houses non-violent 'drug' offenders and another multi-billion fighting the 'drug war'.
Tax rates at zero with rebates for mega corporations.
Tax rates at 15% for people who make money off of money (capitol gains) while actual producers that work creating goods and jobs top out at 35%.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1756122

[0n1n3]

124. People to Obama: We back You, but you must stop being a DINO. nt

nt

[Ganja Ninja]

125. Blah blah blah.

Sorry Mr President but you back no one but the corporate hacks you hired for your cabinet and the moneyed interests they represent.

The best way for you Mr President to back the unions is to back yourself right out of the 2012 race.

[begin_within]

126. Obama backs unions? I'll believe it when I see it.

[paparush]

127. In what ways do Unions negatively impact the deficit? The federal debt?

In what ways do Unions lower our GDP?

Goddamit this makes me so fucking mad.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

129. Oh Jesus H Christ. I seem to be moving from disappointment to disappointment. nt

[ananda]

131. How about this?

You (unions) backed me, so now I will back you and make rich fatcats
and owners sacrifice.

Somehow that's not how it is. Obama only plays with the rich.

[October]

132. OMG, Unions have done nothing but sacrifice for the past 40+ years!

This is ridiculous! Tax the damned rich, already!

[bonniebgood]

138. Obama's approval is high 80 among liberal is the biggest lie

since Obama said (I never heard him say) he was a democrat.
Look up why Artur Davis lost his seat in Alabama.
No one cared or paid attention when O signed an illegal,
unconstitutional 'bill of attainder' against Acorn. 
Obama is just doing the customarily thing is to seek a second
term. Things will get better when a real democrat
gets into the race. OBAMA IS NOT SEEKING A SECOND TERM

anti-entitlements
anti-labor
anti-union
anti-middle class
anti-gay MARRIAGE
HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE OBAMA IS A DEMOCRAT?
Obama's silence on these issues speaks volumes.

teabaggers have a point. Obama does not understand american
history or have American values.
Americans Value SS. Medicaid, Medicare and taxing the rich,
Unions, and the Middle class.
Sorry about the unrec. I am new in commenting. Long time
reader.

[October]

199. What? Teabaggers have a point?

You lost me there.

[The Backlash Cometh]

133. Obama should be ashamed of himself.

It will be impossible for him to convince us that he's representing us, when facts like the one below are racing across facebook:

Salary of retired US Presidents .............$180,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of House/Senate .......................$174,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of Speaker of the House ............$223,500 FOR LIFE
Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders ...... $193,400 FOR LIFE
Average Salary of a teacher ................ $40,065
Average Salary of Soldier DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN $38,000

[RoccoR5955]

160. Multiply the number of soldiers by that, and you don't come near

any of the other numbers. I mentioned that to a friend on FB, and she deleted the post, because it's some teabagger propaganda.

[The Backlash Cometh]

166. Is it?

Are you saying that the numbers are wrong? Politicians don't get pensions?

[RoccoR5955]

182. There are more soldiers than there are former presidents

aren't there? Therefore these numbers do not add up. We should stop spending money on the military, because shipping kids overseas to fight in wars costs so much. That alone would equal all the pensions of the former elected officials. Stop listing to the teabagger kook aid!

[The Backlash Cometh]

185. I think you're not getting a full understanding of what those numbers suggest.

If it's about shared sacrifice, then politicians should set the example.

[midnight]

169. Maybe it's time for some shared sacrifice.... This is surely added to the deficit.

[Yon_Yonson]

190. It’s time to end their gravy train let them feel the full force of austerity

From the looks of your numbers my first cut would be with CEO making 500 times more than their lowly employee and then hit their their political whores ... HARD.

[Fearless]

134. There will be no more sacrifice... I need to eat.

[caseymoz]

136. From here on out, you'll have to take our sacrifices from our cold, dead hands.

[Shining Jack]

137. K&R

[truth2power]

140. I typed up this reply yesterday, but by the time I hit "post"

the thread had been locked, waiting for the OP to edit. I have no idea why the edit was requested, therefore, I hope my reply doesn't violate any rules.

Here's a portion of Pres. Obama's remarks, from the link:

"So I think it's important -- remember we talked about shared sacrifice and burden sharing. Well, this is an area where there's got to be burden sharing as well. If a public sector employee is able to retire at 55 with 80 percent of their wages, and the average public sector employee has got a 401(k) that they've just seen decline by about 20 percent and they have no idea how they're going to retire, and they're feeling burdened by a lot of taxes and they don't feel like the public sector employers are making any adjustments whatsoever to reflect the tough economic realities that are facing folks who are not protected, then there's going to be a natural backlash."


Here's my edit:

So I think it's important -- remember we talked about shared sacrifice and burden sharing. Well, this is an area where there's got to be burden sharing as well. If a < bankster > is able to < pull down about a million $$$ or more a week > and the average < member of the working class > has got a 401(k) that they've just seen decline by about 20 percent and they have no idea how they're going to retire, and they're feeling burdened by a lot of taxes and they don't feel like the < bankers and other members of the financial elite > are making any adjustments whatsoever to reflect the tough economic realities that are facing folks who are not protected, then there's going to be a natural backlash.

I think my edited version more closely reflects the situation we find ourselves in. Furthermore, I think the President's remarks show an amazing cluelessness about what's happening to the people of this country.

[Yon_Yonson]

150. I concur with your comment and thanks

The MODS said I could not post the article in it's entirety and it had to be truncated/shortened. Don't exactly understand why but those be the prevailing rules.

[Initech]

142. Shared sacrifice = more for them less for us.

:argh:

[wundermaus]

144. yeah, right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o

2007: Barack Obama promised to "walk on that picket line" if workers are denied the right to bargain

[avebury]

145. Where is the shared sacrifice from the uber wealthy

and corporations? I am so sick of hearing that we all must sacrifice we not all of us do.

[rhett o rick]

146. He isnt backing unions if he is asking them to continue to sacrifice. nm

[glinda]

147. Someone should ask him publicly if he grasps what people have already sacrificed. This

statement sounds totally clueless.

[Red1]

149. Sure

Having been in a Union myself...I understand the need to sometimes give back, after a contract has expired and negotiations are forthcoming...

But don't eliminate the bargaining lever as wisconsin has

Pity Obama doesn't start these "sacrificing" speeches with a little "Because of past republican practices, you must...."

he used to...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

151. 1st, make the rich sacrifice their share, then we can talk, mr. president

[OwnedByFerrets]

153. Yeah, that will win them/us over

:rofl: He obviously believes us to be fucking morans

[MakingANoise]

154. Okay, BUT...

Mr. President, when EVERYONE sacrifices which includes the rich and the corporations that pay no taxes, then WE will sacrifice...until then, DON'T CALL US, WE'LL CALL YOU ;)

have a nice day...

[RoccoR5955]

155. WHEN WILL WALL STREET BANKERS SHARE SUFFERING?!?!?!

They have been making money hand over fist. He allowed the Shrub tax cuts to stay. Unions bargained for what they have, and have been giving back for years, so that fat cats can prosper, while widening the gap between the upper and middle class.

So it's me to Obama, "As a union member, I will sacrifice, only when billionaires share the sacrifice in the same proportion as I am requested to. Not before. Otherwise, go to hell!"

[geardaddy]

163. +1 million

[ProgressIn2008]

157. So says the rich, priviledged man who is set for life. nt

[fascisthunter]

161. enough with the BS talk Obama... stop Coddling the Wealthy

they haven't sacrificed a damn thing and you know it!

[truth2power]

165. The most important question someone should ask Pres. Obama (but they won't)

is how does he define the word "back" in that context. And when you get an answer you should keep drilling down, so to speak, until you get to the root of what he means by that term. How would he operationalize it? What would "backing" someone LOOK LIKE?

This is the problem with Obama. Just what I intuited way back in early 2008, when I told someone that he made all-purpose speeches. He uses words in a way that causes everyone to put their own emotional frame on them, depending on their life experience and whatever other factors come into play at the time.

In my view, that's why there's so much rancor, here on DU especially, over what he really said or meant when he spoke about an issue. No one ever requires him to operationalize these weasel words so that we're all on the same page before we take up cudgels against one another.

I think Obama does this deliberately and it's been very successful for him because he never has to really own what he says. He sows confusion all the time.

This is (allegedly) a government of the people, and we have the right to require our leaders to speak clearly and unambiguously. Obama's "I back you" phrase is meaningless nonsense.

[Smarmie Doofus]

186. Good post. n/t

[Mosaic]

167. Obama is out of touch

It seems he lacks a lot of knowledge about the Democratic Party, the New Deal, Unions, and how this country created a strong middle class. Someone should send him an email with some history.

[usrname]

170. I read the title of this article...

I think the writer got it backwards. Shouldn't the unions be backing Obama and Obama should be sacrificing? An individual can't back up the union. And the union shouldn't be sacrificing.

[JDPriestly]

171. Problem is: When the bankers told Obama that they were entitled

to certain compensation from the banks that were being bailed out by US, Obama accepted that. The bankers (traders and brokers also) were paid what their contracts required.

Now, the public employees have contracts regarding retirement and other benefits -- contracts that were bargained for according to the law and that have not been renegotiated fairly according to the law -- and Obama is condoning breaking the contracts of the public employees.

There is something very, very wrong here.

Why didn't Obama ask the bankers to sacrifice way back when?

Why didn't he ask them to sacrifice last winter when he agreed to extend the tax cuts for the rich?

Why is Obama now asking public employees and Social Security recipients to sacrifice before he gets the sacrifices from the rich?

He is conceding to Congress without a fight. That is all he does. Basically, we don't have anyone defending or fighting us in the White House. We voted for a weakling. What fools we were. And we will have no choice but to vote for that same weakling again because, so far, no progressive Democrat is willing to sacrifice his or her career to carry the banner for working people.

[dpbrown]

176. Companies are making more money than they've ever made....

...and he wants unions to sacrifice?

[Chisox08]

177. When does the greed stop!

Every time I hear the phrase "shared sacrifice" it is only poor and middle class Americans that are doing the sacrificing. Union workers has given up enough already. I don't see congress taking pay cuts, giving up benefits or paying more out of pocket for them. If we can't afford medicare we can't afford Boehner's insurance. Before asking people who work for a living to sacrifice, sacrifice your own benefits first. I don't see a dime in tax increases in the richest Americans. I am fed up with all of the bullshit that is coming from Washington while people are suffering and those same people who are suffering are being asked to sacrifice more. We have nothing more to sacrifice.

[Faryn Balyncd]

178. "Backing" like that is much WORSE than the opposition of avowed enemies for 2 reasons:

(1.) "Backing" like that, by neutering the opposition of an effective democratic movement, make the attack on working people much more likely to succeed.

(2.) Because any resulting anti-working people legislation will have been done under the lead of a president with a "D", with the complicit support of Democratic Congressional leaders, Republicans will not have to fear, or suffer, the blowback. Instead they will benefit at the polls because of a disillusioned (and betrayed) Democratic base.



This approach in "leadership" is simultaneously destructive in both substance and political consequences.

[bullwinkle428]

179. EAT YOUR PEAS, WORKER BEE!

[AtomicKitten]

180. It's just another manifestation of his 'shared sacrifice' message.

Read into it what you will.

[Smarmie Doofus]

181. I'm in a teachers' union. He does NOT back us.

If he believes he "backs" us, then he thinks he knows enough about American public schools by virtue of his attendance as a NINE-YEAR OLD in an *Indonesian* public school, to diagnose and "reform" what's "wrong" w. American public schools.

[sarcasmo]

184. Millionaires don't sacrifice but Unions have to sacrifice? WTF?

[adigal]

187. Dear Pres Obama: Two years with no raise

Now the district wants us to give up a step, also. We were fine with no raise, as we know everyone is hurting, but giving up a step affect us forever. I have 5 years left in teaching, and I don't know if I am going to make it. Everyone hates us all of a sudden.

[Yon_Yonson]

188. Not everyone

I for one believe that teachers and educators do more to benefit humanity than any politician in the U.S. of A. Your job is important so in spite of tough times you keep influencing those young minds ... it’s our hope for the future!

[DainBramaged]

189. Bullshit, every time there are negotiations, UNIONS FUCKING SACRIFICE

my wrinkled old ass. I am getting tired of this bullshit, fucking tired.


5 years Mr. President, FIVE YEARS while my cost of living has increased 20%, I am told we can't afford a raise. But your cronies on Wall Street aren't hurting are they.


Fucking bullshit.

[gkhouston]

191. Obama to unions: I love you to death. n/t

[alarimer]

194. Make the rich fuckers sacrifice too.

The ONLY people having to sacrifice in this scenario are public employees, who already get paid shit. They trade less pay for better benefits and now everyone is shitting all over them.

Fuck this "sacrifice" talk unless you give up some of your pay and benefits too, Mr. President.

[People for Polity]

196. Unbelievable

When are the corporates going to share the sacrifice? Productivity is at historical levels along with CEO salary and bonuses, but wage growth is at its slowest since the Great Depression! Last year the average worker say an increase of $0.58 a week!