Dem Spokesman Accuses GOP of Dirty Tricks in Waukesha Vote Count

[Hissyspit]

Source: Journal Sentinel

Dem spokesman accuses GOP of dirty tricks in Waukesha vote count

By Larry Sandler of the Journal Sentinel
Updated: Aug. 9, 2011 11:25 p.m. |

A state Democratic Party spokesman accused a Republican official Tuesday night of tampering with votes in the tight 8th Senate District recall race.

With 10 of 11 Waukesha County wards still out -- including all of those in Menomonee Falls -- party spokesman Graeme Zielinski said, "We believe the election in this contest has been tampered with by Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus.

"She’s sitting on votes. We believe that right now, there are severe irregularities in Waukesha County once again. We believe the very fate of the Wisconsin Senate hangs in the balance and is in the hands of a woman who has already shown extreme incompetence.”

- snip -

Democrats are demanding an investigation or at least an explanation, Zielinski said, and he added the party’s legal team is looking into it.


Read more: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/127434893.html

---

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/09/wisconsin-reca...

The AP has declared GOP state Sen. Alberta Darling the winner over Sandy Pasch in Wisconsin's 8th district.

[PatrynXX]

1. Just don't pay attention to the comment section

way too many clueless comments

[Hissyspit]

2. UPDATE: Wisconsin Democrats retract election tampering accusation against Waukesha County clerk

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/09/wisconsin-democra... /

About an hour later after issuing their first statement, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin retracted their accusation against Nickolaus.

"Though we believe that Sandy Pasch was able to battle Alberta Darling to a virtual tie, on her turf, we will not pursue questions of irregularities," Tate said in a statement "Those heat-of-the-moment statements came in light of the uncertainties that arose from a recent election, known too well."

[Maraya1969]

3. Since when is the county clerk the dictator of the elections? I thought it was the people

in the election who decide whether or not there is a recount?

[BNJMN]

4. Of course they won't persue. They'll roll over like always. The entire country is rolling over...

[dotymed]

22. That is the problem.

The G.O. Pricks would not have backed down. If
irregularities" were suspected, call them out. The Democratic party has not learned a thing after they keep getting their asses handed to them by thieves. Damn, fight for what you believe in.

Look at the 2000 "Brooks brothers revolution in Florida. The GOP flew all kinds of lawyers and hired all kinds of thugs to shut down a legal recount because they were losing (they did lose but the supremes had already decided because of the GOP thuggery....money)

If Democrats don't fight fire with fire, they lose. It used to be decided by the rule of law, now it's the rule of the jungle.

[ooglymoogly]

5. Hell, this thug has got away with stealing elections twice before

with no punishment...why won't she get away with it again. She is a known criminal.

[No Elephants]

6. Huh? Retracted? So fast? What was the rush? Did she threaten a libel suit?

[TheWraith]

7. Or, they might have decided it didn't have merit.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

[Chan790]

11. I've always been a skeptic on claims of widespread RW vote-tampering...

because I believe in logic, reason and probability. I don't think that kind of conspiracy could be undertaken without discovery by righteous forces--a Smedley Butler, if you will. I believe in Occam's Razor and the law of parsimony.

Ms. Nickolaus turns the law of parsimony on its' head. It's easier and more logical based on empirical fact to assume that she's stealing elections than that she merely has a district with that many "problematic" elections and a tendency to generate exactly enough votes to offset whatever lead Democrats have in the larger voting reason in this many consecutive elections.

I say to you, there is no doubt in my mind that she is stealing elections. How to prove?

[Botany]

14. From somebody who has worked elections for years now

.... the State Supreme Court race last spring where Kathy Nickolaus "found" 14,000 votes
2 days after the election is way over the top. You simply don't forget to include the
2nd largest city in your county when counting the vote on election night.

[TheWraith]

38. There's a huge difference between some vote fraud and massive vote fraud.

That's the part that I get annoyed about: people creating scenarios where they imagine that election fraud is so powerful that people can just make shit up, rejigger entire state or national elections, and have no chance of getting caught.

There's lots of ways that dirty operators use to suppress votes: misinformation about polling places or days, bogus absentee ballots, voter roll purges, misinformation about candidates, etcetera. But there's a wide gulf between someone putting their thumb on the scales that way, and being able to just toss an election whatever way they like, the way that people attribute to these operations. Realistically, the larger the effect of election fraud, the more likely it is to be caught. "Under the radar" stuff can affect a certain number of votes, but usually only enough to swing a very close election.

That's not to say some people don't completely make up election results: I know for a fact that my own county in NY submitted pretty much wholly fictional vote counts for the 2008 presidential primary. But the places where you can get away with that are the same places where nobody pays attention, because there are so few votes.

Now, I don't know the system in Wisconsin. But I do know that usually, votes are double-checked against records. In other words, you can match the number of votes against the number of people who signed in. That's one way of seeing if the vote tally is accurate, and a way of checking whether a tally includes more votes than there were voters. You can also randomly check with some of those people to make sure they really voted. These are some of the safety mechanisms in place to prevent one or two people from simply making things up as they go along.

[valerief]

17. I think their threats are tougher than that. What would the Mafia do?

They ARE organized crime, after all.

[L. Coyote]

28. They found out the delay was in counting absentee ballots.

Of course, counting absentee ballots is a slower process if you have to figure out who can still cast votes after polls close

[FlaGranny]

8. I don't understand something

and I guess I never will. Every time Democrats lose an election I see reports of "lighter than expected turnout" or "relatively small turnout" after the election, which I read in another article about this election. This is after reports of very heavy turnout by observers DURING the voting.

The other thing I'll never understand is the gloating of average everyday Republicans that their guys won, you know, those guys who want to send their jobs overseas, take away their parents' SS so they will have to support them (not to mention their own dilemma when they get old), make sure they'll eventually have to fork out more money for electricity, food, and gas, etc., etc. I guess those Republicans just have no logical thinking abilities. Either that or every damn one of them is independently wealthy.

[SnakeEyes]

9. Observational reports are anecdotal

and opinion. After the election we have the actual facts, real numbers.

[jerryster]

10. I don't get that, either

It's amazing to me how so many people vote against their own self interest. I guess they must really believe that's not the case. On a sadder note I have to believe that Walker is well within his rights to claim that a majority of the voters who came out to vote yesterday support him and his agenda. While I hope the recall against him will go forward, I have to believe that the air is out of the populist effort in Wisconsin. Here's hoping I am absolutely wrong. We'll see.

[Cherchez la Femme]

12. I wrote this in the **Breaking** thread,

I'll repost it here with a little bit more:


How are you not absolutely sure if you, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin spokesman Graeme Zielinski, call a press conference accusing Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus of "tampering" with votes?

There is either serious illegality on one side or serious incompetence or the other.

Now the truth won't matter, each have their well-accustomed side -- isn't this 'Conspiracy Game' getting a little old?


Or could it be mere entertainment, since nothing ever seems to be done about voting irregularities in this country?

[Botany]

13. From what I have read and heard something in Wisconsin

..... seems to be strange. All day yesterday there were reports of very heavy voter turn out but at the
end of the day we fell short of retaking the state senate even though a heavy turn out almost always favors
the democrats

We have to get rid of those electronic voting machines because to me at least they seem to almost always
help the republicans and that is what they were designed to do.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. All of these elections took place in REPUBLICAN districts

[Botany]

36. don't give me any of your facts!

they spoil my anger .....

[TorchTheWitch]

23. depends entirely on who is heavily turning out and who they're voting for

A heavy turnout in an area that is mostly Dem voters will likely mean a Dem victory. A heavy turnout in a mostly Repub area will likely mean a Repub victory... but not always. A heavy turnout can also mean that Repubs and Dems are heavily turning out in equal number or equivalent number for the number of either Repubs or Dems in a given area, or it can mean that heavy turnout is mostly by one party's voters over the other party's voters for whatever reason.

A heavy turnout without knowing who turned out, who they turned out to vote for and whether or not the given area is heavily Dem, heavily Repub or relatively equal doesn't really mean anything.

[Botany]

37. so a heavy turn out in a very republican district ..

.... helps republicans?

why you!




thanx for the post!

[Lint Head]

16. I'm confused. If the Democrats winning three seats gave them the majority why does winning two seats

not make it even? Is there funny math going on? Am I missing something?

[Gin]

20. what about the ballots with the wrong address and date on them?

was there anything that could be done about them?

[jerryster]

21. Simple math

The RepubliKochs had 19 seats, the Dems 14. Our gain of 2 makes it 17 to 16, RepubliKochs up by 1.

[Lint Head]

25. I kept hearing that winning 3 would give Dems a majority.

Apparently that was not true.

[jerryster]

26. Yes, it would have.

Since the RepubliKochs had 19 seats to start, if they lost 3 they would have had 16, Dems by gaining 3 would have had 17.

[Lint Head]

39. Thanks!

[Yon_Yonson]

18. Exit polling sites shut down by police

Yesterday I was hearing rumors that police had shut down exit polling sites in district 8? Anybody have any information on that?

[L. Coyote]

29. according to your rumor n/t

[Yon_Yonson]

32. Why don't you take a bite of this shite sandwich

By Brad Friedman on 8/9/2011 6:17pm
Exit Pollsters Shut Down Again in Waukesha
Other reports good, poll turnout said very high...


The polls in Wisconsin closed moments ago. So far, so good in the state's unprecedented recall elections today, at least according to the bulk of media reports throughout the day. Turnout was reportedly very high, nearing or even exceeding rates from the 2008 Presidential election in some areas. "It's astronomically high," according to Matt Rothschild, Editor of The Progressive in Madison, WI, with whom I was just on air with on Santa Fe Public Radio's KSFR to discuss today's recalls.

The contests in six state Senate districts could mean removal from office for the GOP Senators facing recall today following their support of Gov. Scott Walker's anti-union agenda. If Democrats take three of those seats --- and hold onto the two Democrat seats up for recall next Tuesday, they would retake the majority in the Senate. The Assembly, the Senate and the Governor's office all went to Republicans in last November's wave election.

While reports of problems with electronic voting systems frequently don't come to light until after polls close --- sometimes days and even weeks later --- we've heard of very few problems so far at least. With most of the voters in the state today voting on hand-marked paper ballots, voters shouldn't get held up by malfunctioning machines. Even in cases where the op-scanners fail to work --- and that has been the case, reportedly, in at least one ward in Fond du Lac --- voters can vote and their ballots can be tallied later by a different computer.

That WI doesn't bother to check any of the op-scanned ballots by hand to assure the machines are tallying them correctly is a different problem entirely, but one we discussed in our item earlier today and, depending on what results look like tonight, may need to discuss again later.




http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8661

[midnight]

34. Here is a link discussing this matter.

Yesterday in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin—in Waukesha County—local officials shut down a citizen exit poll run by the Election Defense Alliance, who were there to determine the accuracy of the vote-count in the Democratic primary in anticipation of the effort to recall State Senator Alberta Darling, a GOP stalwart and close Walker ally.

The officials’ rationale is in the article below: that the pollsters were “electioneering” too close to the polling place.

This is a preposterous argument, since exit polls necessarily involve handing out forms with the names of ALL the candidates, as EDA’s Jonathan Simon explains:


The state Government Accountability Board and local election officials in Menomonee Falls and Butler have received several complaints about a group conducting an exit poll of voters in Tuesday’s Democratic primary to determine who takes on Sen. Alberta Darling in next month’s recall election.

The group, Election Defense Alliance, is trying to check the accuracy of the vote but was handing out literature too close to voting sites in Menomonee Falls, according to Reid Magney, a spokesman for the Government Accountability Board.

When voters were coming out of the polls, the group was attempting to give them an exit poll paper that looks similar to a ballot and had candidate names on it, Magney said. State law prohibits the distribution of material with candidate names within 100 feet of a polling place, he said.

http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/07/exit-poll-in-wauke... —a-ludicrous-pretext/

[Yon_Yonson]

40. Thanks for the clarification & info midnight

[PeaceNikki]

19. **update** retracted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Overseas]

24. Can't believe it all comes down to Kathy "Human Error" Nickolaus

Did she find another stash of votes in her cabinet to change the outcome?

I hope some neutral observers were monitoring her activities all day.

[L. Coyote]

30. The Rs are doing an exceptional job of getting absentee ballots cast

and the Dems should take a lesson in that.

[mbee]

27. We should boycott any products coming from Wisconsin

such as cheese because the good folks should move out of there and let the place fall. It is time for people to be logical and get out of Republican states. The Democratic states have their problems, but maybe we should just separate into two countries. I see no way out of this other that that. You have such ignorant people on the other side who will vote against their own best interest every time.

[L. Coyote]

31. And cause the good DEM farmers to go broke. STUPID idea. Boycott Wak-Mart and

all Kock industry products, support businesses with union workers, etc.

DO NOT punish your allies because you have opponents!

[newspeak]

33. my MIL watches local Faux news

and one of the commentators just stated that the repubs retained the majority, so it must be the good people of Wisconsin approve of Walker. There you go, wisconsin approves of the deregulating, anti-labor, pro-Koch brothers governor.

[pissed in WI]

35. tampering...? not Kathy Nickolaus....

Wisconsin Democrats MIA as Election Stolen by Repub Thugs
http://fucorporatemedia.com/news/30048