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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:48 PM
Original message
Trial begins for 'violent' MS-13 gang members
Source: San Francisco Chronicle

(04-04) 18:51 PDT San Francisco -- San Francisco's biggest gang trial in years opened Monday with a federal prosecutor accusing seven men of terrorizing city neighborhoods with assaults, shakedowns and four 2008 murders.

They are "a group that lives, breathes and celebrates violence," said Justice Department attorney Theryn Gibbons.

From the mid-1990s onward, Gibbons said, local leaders of El Salvador-based Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, have used fear and intimidation to control their Mission District turf, extort money from drug dealers and phony document-peddlers, and eliminate rivals.

Gang members are initiated by undergoing a brutal beating - which lasts 13 seconds - and then "rise in the ranks through acts of violence," Gibbons said in her opening statement in a U.S. District Court trial that could last six months.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/0...
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hope they get convictions with enough evidence.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. the real terrorists in this country are the street gangs
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kurtzapril4 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I totally agree. n/t
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. these guys are small time compared with republicans, the real terrorists here
any organized and coordinated attempt to obstruct immediate action to address global warming is terrorism.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Put them on a barge
a nice leaky one
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Although it's not an issue in a trial, when it comes to these people
I have to try really hard to not want the death penalty when it is a possibility.
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. why does this article put 'violent' in parentheses? MS-13 is pure brutality
:shrug:
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Some places are fussier than others about even single-word direct quotes. (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. How about an inquiry into policies that help create these street gangs?
If it weren't for conservative rethug policies, with continual cuts in education, social programs, etc, and not to mention the "war on drugs", would street gangs be as prevalent or as dangerous? Sure there would still be territorial pissings, but I highly doubt that we'd see street gangs on the level that we do now.
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. But you can't blame lack of social programs for everything.
Not all democrat policies are the answer either. What's lacking in these kids is hard honest work. They're brutal gang to be sure but they're also lazy and ignorant. Freakanomics of gangster life is that most gangbangers make less the minimum wage and assault and murder is hard work. They'd all be much better off working at Burger King.
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clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. These "gangsters" and thugs all start out as angelic children...

who somehow begin metamorphosing into psychopaths by their teenage years.

It isn't the big city water!

It's a heady mix of alienation, indifference, neglect, violence, poverty, hopelessness, no parenting skills, lack of preparation for employment, and the disintegration of the traditional communal family unit, all together wreaking havoc.

These kids, most of them, don't have a chance, they are destined to be marginal and, most likely, a life-long social burden.

Only the exceptional children escape, and they are feted as having extraordinary gifts, and usually remarkable support. Great for them!

But what about the vast majority, short-changed throughout their lives. Living in substandard, even dangerous housing, attending schools that are under-funded with teachers unable to cope with the many dysfunctional students from similarly dysfunctional families, often under, or malnourished, and with other unaddressed disabilities. It doesn't take many stressed students to make any classroom learning nearly impossible.

Admit this or not, these people are victims! They are the result of many decisions made over many generations that have actually created these dangerous, heartless, violent murdering "gang bangers". We have turned our backs on them, their parents, grandparents and whatever progeny they will conceive. They have been royally screwed for generations by US, you and me.

So we reap the whirlwind.... Keep that door locked!
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Much of the problem could be eliminated
by getting illegal immigration under control.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Riiiiiiight.
Because we never had any gangs here until those doggone Maras showed up. :sarcasm:
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Never said that
But MS-13 recruits heavily from the illegal population and was started by illegals.
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sweetapogee Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Hugabear
The only "problem" I have with your comments is that it doesn't go near far enough. I'm saying this for the fourth time ever, but I had an experience on January 7, 2011 8:30 PM EST in which I found the truth about many things (actually I think "it" found me) but most important the survival of the human race is conditioned on (you know) getting it as close to the California Model as necessary to achieve what I call "imperfection within the spectrum of need".

One thing that puzzles me and maybe you have some gems of wisdom here is why in CA where they manufacture good wine that is affordable to the working class, why then does the illegal drug trade expand exponentially in what some might call a capitalistic model that causes misery to all classes of society? I have often thought and in recent years developed actual intentions to build a black pot still in my back yard to make whiskey (limestone water and corn is cheap and abundant here) to give to those who don't have resources. But will that alone solve this perceived problem of limited recreational and educational opportunities that drive some in the "underclass" to deprive some others (mainly those of means) of happiness and still others of life when in reality (if such as word has ANY meaning) when we have republicans running the entire economy into the abyss?

I think now that I have mentioned it I mean WOW things are so "back and forth" with respect to availability that you might consider taking leave of your paying profession and devote time to development of written guidelines and proposals that go further than the mere obvious and bring a maturity into perspective. I'm willing to add a few (and by that I mean less than $100.00) of my funding to support you in creation of a program outline that exploits the inherent weakness of the republican budget with respect to keeping kids as young as 11 years out of the criminal justice system. I'm sure others here agree with me but you should give consideration to breaking loose of those "bungee cords" that are keeping you tied to the planet. In other words, "go for it". With the tools at our disposal we can put forth a combined effort to rid the USA of the notion that not having money in times of economic upheaval is a negative. I actually have two computers and high speed internet access that I'm willing to use in education purposes, so I'm not trying to place the entire burden on just one individual.

Actually, now that I think of it you are probably insulted by the message but I assure you I'm on basically your side. I also think you are ahead of the curve as I call it and have such a plan at least in internal outline form and have already thought about publishing it free on the web, so please don't be offended by my rambling.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. Almost four years ago, 4 college students were executed in Newark, NJ.
MS-13 was rumored to be the gang behind it but the mayor and the police would not go on record with their findings.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292200,00.html
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why is "violent" in quotes?
MS-13 is notoriously violent.
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mysterysoup Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Cuz they haven't been convicted yet.
Media SOP.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Ah
I guess I was attaching the violent qualifier to the gang rather than these folks in particular.
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