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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:18 AM
Original message
WP: 'Armageddon' Plan Was Put Into Action on 9/11, Clarke Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55877-2004Apr...

An "Armageddon" program designed to ensure that the federal government would continue to function in the aftermath of a nuclear war was put into place during the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

According to ABC's "Nightline," which plans to report its findings tonight, every federal agency shifted its control to an alternate headquarters outside Washington. President Bush's decision to fly to Nebraska that day instead of returning to the White House, which drew some criticism at the time, was part of that plan, former counterterrorism official Richard A. Clarke said on the program.

"Nightline" expands on a book by James Mann that detailed the birth of the program, named "Continuity of Government," during the Reagan administration. Under the plan, if the United States were facing a nuclear attack, three teams of 50 federal officials would be sent from Washington to locations across the country -- each with a Cabinet member who was prepared to become president.

That is what happened on Sept. 11. "Questions were raised by talking heads about the president's courage or lack of it because he didn't return directly to Washington," "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel said yesterday. "This was absolutely the Armageddon plan put into effect."

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tit for tat
I keep on thinking * is messing with the wrong people
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. What do you mean??
NOt sure I understand your statement in the context of the article...
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. The harder *co hits on others the harder they hit back
Clarke is on the other side of the fence now, my guess is he has been taking a lot of shots we don't even know about.

A lot of the unexplainable things could probably easily figured out if we all could see what is going on behind the scenes.

My guess Clarke has a lot of people standing behind him, discreetly of course
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Where can we go to run shit....that they'll never ever guess?"
-- President Bush's decision to fly to Nebraska that day instead of returning to the White House, which drew some criticism at the time, was part of that plan, former counterterrorism official Richard A. Clarke said on the program. --

Hooh, I'm guessing the admin would've liked this to stay secret.
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. But old Ari said, that Air Force One was a target....
so they needed to hop-scotch across the country. Small man bush did not address the nation until two days after. Later, we found out that Ari told us a lie. Now the truth comes out.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
80. AWOL Bush
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

9:03 a.m.: A second hijacked airliner, United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston, crashes into the south tower of the World Trade Center and explodes. Both buildings are burning.

+++

9:30 a.m.: President Bush, speaking in Sarasota, Florida, says the country has suffered an "apparent terrorist attack."

+++

9:43 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon, sending up a huge plume of smoke. Evacuation begins immediately.

+++

9:57 a.m.: Bush departs from Florida.

+++

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack /

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 12:39 word is that Bush has landed at a base near Shreveport, La. Incredibly, at 12:51, there is footage of a Taliban news conference by one Wakil Ahmed Mutawakel. It is difficult to absorb that Arafat and the Taliban have weighed in before Bush. Five minutes later ABC reports that in Shreveport "the president looked grim. His eyes were somewhat red." The only hard information is that there are no national security people traveling with the president. ABC's Peter Jennings, breaking protocol for news anchors, says forcefully that the country needs words from its president in Washington.

+++

1:08: More than three hours after the second tower collapsed. A taped message from President Bush. But the sound isn't transmitting, and the image is jerky. Then the image goes backwards. Then it goes off.

+++


2:35: Guiliani live again: "The number of casualties will be more than anyone can bear."

+++

3:30: Confirmation that Bush has landed at the Strategic Air Defense Command base near Omaha, Neb. ABC's Ann Compton, traveling with the president, is on the phone to Peter Jennings, whose inflection says it all: "Annie, can you hear me? What are you doing in Nebraska?"

When he asks where Bush is, she replies, "He disappeared down the rabbit hole, Peter."

+++

3:48: For the first time an administration official, White House counsel Karen Hughes, gives a live statement: "The president, vice-president, and speaker of the House are all safe." It is astonishing that this late in the day the White House has nothing more to say.

+++

At 6:41, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld gives a live press conference -- nearly nine hours after the towers collapsed, a cabinet-level official finally speaks.

+++

8:31: Nearly 12 hours after the attack began, 10 and a half after the towers collapsed, President George W. Bush reads a speech live from the Oval Office.

+++

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-10-...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. Hi Stephanie. Thanks . . .
. . . for the AWOL Bush lineup. Good stuff. That and your PNAC chronicles. :hi:

TYY
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I like my plan better...* should have stayed in the Kindergarden where he
belongs. The real potus was caling the shots along with his wife in a bunker, frothing at the mouth at the possibilites of implementing the PNAC plan.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Notice the Secret Service didn't protect bush as soon as they knew we
were under attack. They hustled Cheney to a secure location, but not bush. They let him sit there reading to kids. To me it shows who the Secret Service considers essential.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Temporary.......
This is a little conspiracy tidbit, but I read that *'s Skull&Bones nickname is "Temporary." This would definitely be interesting if Bush were to leave office prematurely somehow (not by losing an election, I'm sure).
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
69. He never got around to getting a permanent name, so he stayed
Temporary.
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
77. !
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
71. Ya, just like when this corrupt team
came into being, a show on sheeney was on tv showing sheeney when they were attacking that country, how he was sitting up at 2-3am watching the clock, and thinking to himself that it should be happening any minute!!
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. I guess the CEOs of the WTC that were meeting at the same base Bush
went to were also part of the Armageddon plan. Save the rich!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
81. Please send that to the committee
They are said to read all mail. Send them that.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. This statement really stands out.
The reason why is that there was a big gathering of business leaders assembled there before the planes even hit the building. A coinkydink? I think not!
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. Offut Air Force Base in Nebraska, Home of SAC, Strategic Air
Command. Or at least it used to be SAC headquarters.

Anyway, there is a very secure area there for exactly the purpose of maintaining command and control in the case of a hostile attack.

Much as I hate * and everything he does and everything he stands for, I thought then and still think now that is what should've happened. The president of the United States should NOT have been flown back to Washington DC until the situation was known and understood and things were under somewhat more control.

Believe me, I hate to justify my support of this, but I still think it was the right thing to do in that situation.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Today's prayer


A Vision of Hope - Chippewa

We pray that someday an arrow will be broken,

not in something or someone, but by each of humankind,

to indicate peace, not violence.

Someday, oneness with creation,

rather than domination over creation,

will be the goal to be respected.

Someday fearlessness to love and make a difference

will be experienced by all people.

Then the eagle will carry our prayer for peace and love,

and the people of the red, white, yellow, brown, and black communities

can sit in the same circle together to communicate in love

and experience the presence of the Great Mystery in their midst.

Someday can be today for you and me. Amen.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Thanks, I needed that...n/t
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. I love the words and the hope
I'll add it to daily occuring thoughts I'm having...John Lennon's songs, Gandhi, Mandela, the Peace on Earth God, not the punitive interpretation, Thoreau, all the nuns and monks who live a life of prayer because I'm sure they are not praying for war, all the conscientious objectors through the centuries.

Man is capable of evolving by dropping their clubs.

The child is beautiful.

The child comes first.

Thanks for it all.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. Thank you for that vision and prayer.
My heart is hurting today and I really needed affirmation of that vision of peace,...which is possible. We have the power to make the vision of peace a reality.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. If the fourth plane had hit Congress...
I'm sure a "new" government would have been set up for us in no time at all.

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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. And in fact
With smoke and mirrors still intact on this issue, plenty of time was given for the lagging jet to reach DC had they not been so late.
And Congress was STILL sitting there after the first strike.

And the speed which they set up the "shadow government" which they ere later not quick to reveal to Congress, suggests that contingency not only was in place but well under way before 911. Someone should call THOSE shadow employees to the witness stand to chat about that.


What we have here is a failure to conceptualize.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Those horrifying thoughts have entered my mind,...
,...but for the courage of those passengers, what state would this country be in today? Had that plane squared itself such that our congressional member lost their lives, Tommy Frank's statement about martial law would have become a reality and this country would be in a terrifying state of affairs as the conspirators carried out the Prince of Darkness - Perle's all out armageddon.
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pres2032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. that's really interesting in a religious standpoint
right after 9/11 many people were blaming God for not doing anything. Maybe His role was preventing the fourth plane from reaching its target. He must have known that had it hit, this country, and the world, would change drastically and armagedden would have come earlier then He was planning. So maybe we really need to thank God for that. He allowed us to live a little longer.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Well, I am a "spiritual" person, not a "religious" one,...
,...and I would never claim to know the workings of God. I simply observe the workings of humanity,...and those human workings are still operating on or being manipulated by fear rather than faith,...in my humble view.

We still seem short-sighted about our gift of "free will" (or self-awareness) which is the power to create whatever we want among ourselves in this mysterious existence. It is our greatest failure. However, our persistence is our greatest prize.

Doncha' think?!!!!

:bounce:
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. But doesn't the Christian God say reject the world and look to Me?
Why would He arrange things to keep the world around longer when most of his teachings tell people to reject the physical world and embrace the spiritual?
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. ANTHRAX....seems that was the next *plan*....to at least remove....
....the Dem Senators! :(
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Don't forget...
they whisked the R's off in choppers and left the D's there.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Yes, I remember that.
They provided for the safety of the Republican members of Congress, but not Democrats, who weren't told anything.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
72. Oh yes....
but notice when they stated which states supposedly had been hit, say Conn down to GA..aren't these blue states??
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. So even then, they still didn't get it.
The cold war is OVER...

I bet they were so disappointed when the world did not blow up.

Bummer for Bush.

I just don't see how he can't be impeached now, he took an oath to defend the constitution and he is lusting for the destruction of the Earth, U.S. included. How can he protect us and have our best interests in mind in ANYTHING he does.
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. Article by Mann on this:
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:31 AM by Monkey see Monkey Do
(note - be very afraid! The idea of Cheney & Rummy planning the running of America from bunkers 20 years ago is too much for my fragile sensibilities!)

At least once a year during the 1980s Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld vanished. Cheney was working diligently on Capitol Hill, as a congressman rising through the ranks of the Republican leadership. Rumsfeld, who had served as Gerald Ford's Secretary of Defense, was a hard-driving business executive in the Chicago areawhere, as the head of G. D. Searle & Co., he dedicated time and energy to the success of such commercial products as Nutra-Sweet, Equal, and Metamucil. Yet for periods of three or four days at a time no one in Congress knew where Cheney was, nor could anyone at Searle locate Rumsfeld. Even their wives were in the dark; they were handed only a mysterious Washington phone number to use in case of emergency.

After leaving their day jobs Cheney and Rumsfeld usually made their way to Andrews Air Force Base, outside Washington. From there, in the middle of the night, each manjoined by a team of forty to sixty federal officials and one member of Ronald Reagan's Cabinetslipped away to some remote location in the United States, such as a disused military base or an underground bunker. A convoy of lead-lined trucks carrying sophisticated communications equipment and other gear would head to each of the locations.

Rumsfeld and Cheney were principal actors in one of the most highly classified programs of the Reagan Administration. Under it U.S. officials furtively carried out detailed planning exercises for keeping the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. The program called for setting aside the legal rules for presidential succession in some circumstances, in favor of a secret procedure for putting in place a new "President" and his staff. The idea was to concentrate on speed, to preserve "continuity of government," and to avoid cumbersome procedures; the speaker of the House, the president pro tempore of the Senate, and the rest of Congress would play a greatly diminished role.

oops forgot link:
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/03/mann.htm
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Wow! Wow! Wow! Who all agreed to this?!?!
The program called for setting aside the legal rules for presidential succession in some circumstances, in favor of a secret procedure for putting in place a new "President" and his staff. The idea was to concentrate on speed, to preserve "continuity of government," and to avoid cumbersome procedures; the speaker of the House, the president pro tempore of the Senate, and the rest of Congress would play a greatly diminished role.

I can see the need for 'a plan' under extreme/disaster circumstances, but who ok'd THIS plan? Congress? The People? Oh wait, it's a SECRET....and the plan itself is SECRET. I guess it's gotta stay a 'secret', because no one would like/agree to it? hmmmmm.....
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
64. "...to avoid cumbersome procedures..."
Yeah, that explains alot!

Such as elections, following the constitution and existing laws, including members of BOTH parties - yeah - THAT "cumbersom" stuff.

Oh - wait - Kobe is on again! Gotta go!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. To my ELECTED representatives:
"Under the plan, if the United States were facing a nuclear attack, three teams of 50 federal officials would be sent from Washington to locations across the country -- each with a Cabinet member who was prepared to become president."

WHO OKAYED THIS? NOT ME. Where do they get their nerve planning multiple coups because of a disaster? NO unelected asshole has the right to be President of the United States. I don't care what condition it's in.

Once again, American misfortune is to be trifected into a Republican wet dream?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. My Thoughts Exactly
Not one elected representative.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
74. These boobs should be
institutionalized!! They're a danger to all mankind.
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terisel Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. Reminded of the story about Warren Buffett in Nebraska
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:38 AM by terisel
There were news reports right after 9/11 that shortly before 9/11 Warren Buffett had changed the site of a big meeting to be held at the WTC on 9/11. The new site was in Nebraska and presumably lots of the participants owe their lives to the change in plans.

Does anyone remember those reports?

On edit: Found some information on the above. Apparently the Buffett meeting was scheduled for Nebraska and never had been scheduled for the WTC. The news reports concerned one executive who worked at the WTC and owed her life, possibly, to not being at work that day due to plans to attend the Buffett event.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Here is some more on it also
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_052603_buff...
Offutt, Buffett, and 9/11: Strange Coincidences

By Mary Louise

A recent trip to Omaha intensified the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, which has not subsided since that dreadful day, "The Day That Changed The World". While our nation was in shock and turmoil, Bush was being flown hither and yon, with Offutt Air Force Base as one of his stops. Intriguing questions haunted my thoughts about why that location, what went on behind closed doors, and who was there. One thing has led to another since then and much more has been revealed by those who would not allow
(snip)
(snip)
The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska" by John W. DeCamp, attorney and former Nebraska senator, is an investigation of satanic sexual abuse, ritual murders, pedophile rings, child pornography and prostitution, kidnapping, and money-laundering. It involves top Washington D.C. politicians, savings and loan executives, and media cover-ups. This book is dedicated to the author's dear friend, Bill Colby, former head of the CIA (before Bush), who died under very mysterious circumstances in 1996.

The Franklin Credit Union scandal centered in Omaha opens a window into the hellish world of child abuse and organized drug trafficking patronized and protected by powerful figures in politics and business. This awful but true story is about the abuse of positions of public trust, the Cover-up by institutions of government, and the abhorrent conduct and Cover-up by some of our wealthiest citizens. The unfinished business of the Franklin investigation is not only a matter involving children from Nebraska, but the lives of untold numbers of children everywhere.

In the Foreword of the book John DeCamp asked his friend Bill Colby, "What do Ronald Reagan, President George Bush (Sr.), former CIA Director William E. Colby, Democratic presidential candidate Bob Kerrey, billionaire and second richest man in America and now head of Salomon Brothers - Warren Buffett, and Ronald Roskens, the current administrator of the Agency for International Development, all have in common?" Colby replied, "I give up, what could that group have in common?" DeCamp answered, "Three things, all of them a burden at times for those who have to carry them. The three things are me (John DeCamp), a case called Franklin, and a man named Larry King."

Lawrence E. (Larry) King was the manager of Franklin Community Federal Credit Union, when it was raided by federal agencies and shut down. Nearly $40 million was missing from the coffers of the credit union, as the financial scandal turned into something more. It became known children from Omaha and its surroundings said they had been flown from city to city to be abused at parties held by Franklin's officers, well-known Nebraskans, and Republican activists.

For further information on the previous paragraphs see www.texemarrs.com/101997/COVER.HTM and www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/decamp.html. The name index for the aforementioned book, www.namebase.org/sources/XX.html, contains social network diagrams for many of the names listed.

Alex Jones discussing the above (graphic) subject with John DeCamp can be heard at www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/audio.htm
(snip)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Alex Jones?
There's a source.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Well not really, but he is a vacuum cleaner for links
Just like the three headed frog, they all can be linked, connected and even seen like one thing, but they are not really one entity.
I agree some of that stuff is just plain bunk, but there are some good links there

If you didn't like that link try this one
On Sept. 11 Warren Buffet was at Offut Air Force Base, Neb with Chimp??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID6...
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
82. David Icke?
So they're all aliens?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. Okay, I confess, you have to click on the top link to find the others
This one that I dug out of there has a lot things that shouldn't be missed

www.oilempire.us/standdown.html

David Icke also has some good stuff (or the people he got it from did anyway). The one with the Nazi's meeting the aliens in Antarctica had a little extra flavor to be sure
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They_LIHOP Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
66. One more interesting coincidence...
Is that the plane that was following Flight 93 when it crashed in Pennsylvania was owned by a company of which Buffett is a/the (not sure) owner/principle of. I believe it may be called NetJets, not 100% sure on that one. The actual plane may have been leased to someone else at the time, however, as IIRC, it is a jet-leasing company. But it's an odd coincidence, and I'd be unsurprised if Buffett somehow had 9/11 foreknowledge...
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. america was hi-jacked during the reagan
admin.
reagan dealing with the iranians, iran-contra etc. was evidence of it.
this article simply gives us more details about how it has evolved.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Vote For Bush, Because You've Waited For Armageddon Long Enough"
A bumper sticker I have...
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
59. Where can I get one?
pm me with info please?
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. How close we came
It's chilly to think that their plan was even implemented...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. Has anyone read about the Denver Airport?
I'm beginning to think there's some truth to it all.




Details of Murals in New Denver Airport

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sm4csi/nwo/MindControl/murals.htm
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. can you give somemore information on this?
i don't understand, this murial is in an airport? thanks.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Yes all the murals at the link
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 10:57 AM by seemslikeadream
are on the walls of the Denver Airport.

These are the few facts I know to be true

Bechtel built the airport

The cost was way way way over budget

Denver didn't need a new airport

It took way longer to build than expected

It was built between the bushs reign



Now here is where fact starts to touch conspiracy and get pretty wacky. But the murals are real. And something is not right.

The airport was built in 1995 on 34,000 acres (53 square miles; 137.593 Sq.km) in spite of the fact that Denver already had what everyone said was a perfectly fine airport - Stapleton - which was ordered closed when DIA was built so there "wouldn't be any competition". In fact the new airport has less gates and less runways than Stapleton did (I hope you're saying, "That makes no sense"...). All it does have is a lot more acreage. More acreage than an airport that size could possibly need. Most which sits unused. They say it's in case they need to do any future expansion. DIA is the 7th busiest airport in the US according to a 2002 Crain's Chicago Business report.

The initial cost of this New Beast was to be 1.7 billion dollars (with a "B") but by the time they were done playing games, having problems, getting bailed out and got extra government money (and money from private corporations on top of that), it cost about $4.8 billion - obscenely over budget. I have yet to meet a local who wanted the thing built, or didn't have a frothing, rabid story about the whole mess. Words used to describe the DIA were "buried in technical problems", "poor project management", "overwhelming complexity" and "America's most inconvenient airport". It was built in a high wind area (Stapleton hadn't been) that causes it to be shut down or flights delayed often. The extensive automated baggage system so was messed up, such a circus of errors that it was worse than unusable - it was an industry joke. But it had to be built, and built there. Some say the reason that this was built and there was no stopping it, no cost spared to do so and why it was so SO overbudget and took so many years is because it's really an underground military base and a civilian detainment camp.

Some interesting facts:

Even though the area is basically flat (with a stunning view of mountains all around, since it's in a valley), the expense and time was taken to extensively lower some areas and raise others. They moved 110 million cubic yards of earth around. This is about 1/3rd of the amount of earth they moved when they dug out the Panama Canal.
The airport has a fiber optic communications core made of 5,300 miles of cable. That's longer than the Nile River. That's from New York City to Buenos Aires, Argentina. The airport also has 11,365 miles of copper cable communications network.
The fueling system can pump 1,000 gallons of jet fuel per minute through a 28-mile network of pipes. There are six fuel hold tanks that each hold 2.73 million gallons of jet fuel. This is somewhere in the "no one will ever ever need this much" range.
Granite was imported from all over the world - Asia, Africa, Europe, North and South America - and used in making the main terminal floor. This is a ridiculous expense, especially when you're already over budget. They say, "The floor pattern echoes the roof design and subtly reinforces passenger flows". Ah...subliminal messages to move your ass. It might look pretty but would any of us know Chilean granite from Chinese granite? Or care? You can dye rock if it's colors you're after. Cheaper rocks. (I wonder what the "stones have power" people say about this...)
The huge, main terminal is Jeppesen Terminal, named after Elfrey Jeppesen, who was the first person to create maps specifically for aviation (the company is still in business today). This area is known as the "Great Hall"; it's said this is what the Masons name their meeting place.
It is 900 feet by 210 feet big. This is over 1.5 million square feet of space. All told, there is over 6 million square feet of public space at DIA. The airport brags that they have room to build another terminal and two more concourses and could serve 100 million passengers a year. The airport flew 36 million in 2001.
The only way to get to the other two concourses/terminals from the Great Hall, or vice versa, is via the airport's train system.
There are more than 19 miles (30 km) of conveyor belt track, luggage transport cars and road in their own underground tunnels that move baggage and goods. They're so huge you can drive trucks through them, and some remain unused.
The entire roof of DIA is made of 15 acres of Teflon-coated, woven fiber glass. The same material is on the inside as a layer, also. The place looks like a bizarre (but kind of cool) scene out of "Dune", comprised of huge, spiked tent-like structures. The material reflects 90% of the sunlight and doesn't conduct heat. So you can't see into the place with radar or see heat signatures. I added helpfully.

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Denver_Airport.html

There's tons of crazy stuff written about the airport and I in no way believe it but there are facts that raise some questions.


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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. thanks for the reply, really fascinating stuff.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:57 AM by SheepyMcSheepster
i have never heard of this airport.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. I remember when that airport opened. What are those creepy Murals?
Why a mural of what looks like "Darth Vader" from Star Wars. Who did them do you have more information? They look bizarre. :scared:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. More
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 01:09 PM by seemslikeadream
now this stuff gets pretty strange but it still can't take away some basic facts. Maybe the weird stuff is to conceal the real.

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Bases.html

map of underground bases

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Bases/Map.html

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/5692 /

check out the runways -- shape of a swastika




About the artist Leo Tanguma

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Denver/Page2.html



In Peace and Harmony with Nature
by Leo Tanguma
In Peace and Harmony with Nature addresses environmental issues of the world. One side of the mural shows children pouring out great sadness over the destruction and extinction of life human, flora and fauna. The other part depicts humanity coming together to rehabilitate and celebrate nature and its diversity.

http://www.flydenver.com/guide/art/mural.asp?Page=1&pic...


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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. thanks!
i can't believe i never heard a word about this place.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. here are a series of letters/emails exchanged with the DIA.....
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. Weird
The Denver airport IS pretty insane. Also, much of the same thing happened in St. Louis. They built this new huge airport that was completely uncalled for and for a few years after its completion it was just sitting there empty because none of the airlines felt like they needed to move their operations from the current airport. I haven't checked on it for a while, so it might still be entirely empty.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. What is the name and who built it?
do you know?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. This is so weird.
I remember the news a while back mentioned the overbudgeted airport in Denver but they didn't say much about it.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
58. The Denver airport doesn't have "mountains all around".
If it is in a "valley" it's more of a depression in the prairie than a mountain valley. And I've never seen those murals there, where are they? Inquiring minds and all...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. This link is from the airport itself
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:23 PM by seemslikeadream
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
61. THAT is some really creepy sh*t,...
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:27 PM by Just Me
,...really creepy!!!!

Do you have a tag on the artists?

This stuff reminds me of some pics posted on the one-year global marches,...the ones posted on a particularly "artistic" rendition of the NY protests.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. His name is
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:26 PM by seemslikeadream
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. This story is another proof to me of the secret government that runs us
in continuity is real. Elections may be a sham and a front. Perhaps the election was stolen because they needed the cover to accelerate the agenda publically and more legally.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
75. Yes...I've been posting about elections
for how long...they're just letting people go through the motions of voting and it doesn't count..ALso, look at election 2002--too many states who's R gov won, people from those states were shocked with this--why? They HAD to have GOVERNORS they can work with...Is all part of a PLAN.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. four hijacked planes=Armageddon?
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 10:24 AM by Jen6
how on earth did they come to that conclusion? I know that Al Gore was warning of terrorist threats that "could set off a small nuclear device in Manhattan" (FL rally in 2000), but 3 hijacked planes flying into three major structures hardly compares to such a scenario (dispite the fact that many Americans behaved as if it were the same).
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. guess we'll just have to wait for "the Rapture"
:eyes:
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Josh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's true. I'm reading the book now -
Bush was sent away at Clarke's request, and apparently he wasn't happy about it. Clarke notes that he was uneasy on his feet and couldn't find his voice that day (remember those crappy attempted speeches he gave) but that Bush was basically ordered not to come to DC and Clarke was the one who wanted it that way. Let's give him that.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
76. Clareke's speaking out now...
for a REASON.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
29. If I remember correctly...
The Democrats have been kept in the dark about this "plan." Just what the hell do these scumbags think would be left to rule if we're hit with a large number of nuclear weapons?
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. Right... no Democrats
were even TOLD about the plan.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. Somebody has to ..
rifle the bodies for money.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. Are cabinet members in line of succession? n/t
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Yep...
The Vice President
Speaker of the House
President pro tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury
Secretary of Defense
Attorney General
Secretary of the Interior
Secretary of Agriculture
Secretary of Commerce
Secretary of Labor
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation
Secretary of Energy
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Secretary of Homeland Security
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Interesting list. But, isn't it counterproductive to put
the Secretary of Homeland Security at the bottom?

I mean, if it EVER gets down to him, he probably isn't doing his job very well to begin with. And if it gets close down to his order of succession, he may think.. "Three more down and I get to be the big dog. Well, what's a few more."

Stranger things have happened in the quest for the presidency. Like Florida.
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. It's based on the order they were created
Sec'y of State was the first cabinet position created, Homeland Security the last.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. Their sense of purpose and power DEPENDS on Armaggedon
so if it doesn't exist then it must be created, if only in their minds... This paranoia goes to the core of PNAC policy:

Neo-conservatism and the politics of paranoia

Max Fraad Wolff

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/June2003/x-June2003-neocon....

...Leo Strauss was an inspirational guru. His belief in powerful, aggressive policy was shaped in reaction to his personal experience of Weimar Germany. Permissive democracy is naturally weak. Military strength and sacrifice of excessive personal freedom are required to combat tyranny and avoid defeat. A cast of menacing internal and external enemies perpetually threatens. Supremacy of Western culture, US constitutional democracy and individualism are melded with free enterprise. The US is the embodiment of strength, morality and civilisation. Opponents are either deluded (as in the case of the Europeans) or threatening aggressors. Diplomacy and compromise reveal weakness, menace freedom and encourage tyranny, relativism and chaos. Survival demands martial mastery of myriad threats. The great texts of Western philosophy are not simply the expressions of one system of human organisation; they contain the true guide to supremely meritorious society. Alternative philosophies and political structures are inferior and threatening. Philosophy and ideology lead human activity, determine societys success and failure. The majority of people see only shadows on the walls of Socrates cave; an enlightened vanguard must lead.

Strauss handed down an ideology of fear to the first neo-cons. Steeped in the paranoia of red scares, the Great Depression, Cold War hysteria and the New York immigrant experience, a group of anti-communist liberals groped towards an acceptably patriotic world-view. Fearful of democracys weaknesses and contradictions, Irving Kristol, Nathan Glazer, Norman Podhoretz and Daniel Bell (see the box First-generation neo-cons) strove to motivate US primacy as a bulwark against Soviet aggression. Disturbed by the pilloried leftism of family members and their ethnic Brooklyn neighbours, these success-oriented young men found solace and acceptability by celebrating the morality of US power.

Suspicion of leftists and creeping communists ruled supreme during the neo-cons formative years. Hysterical fear justified attack, which was trumpeted as defence of imperiled morality and liberty. Compromise was veiled aid to mortal enemies. Arms reduction and trade normalisation marked surrender. The neo-cons alliance with Rand Corporation heavyweight Albert Wohlstetter (see box, below) symbolised their entrance into Republican power circles.

..snip..

The potency of Pnac and similar think-tanks is enormous. Above all else they concentrate on fear and vulnerability to cataclysmic attack. The cast of threats and methods of confrontation has evolved, but the ethical mandate for pre-emptive action has survived the test of time. The neo-cons sense of their own success in the Cold War invigorates their certainty of method and aggression of action. Domestic and foreign opponents feel the sting of bold impatience with dissent. Conflicts conceived as confrontations with evil allow little room for polite debate.

Neo-conservatism has long struggled for the influence it now commands. It seeks to control mortal threats (real or imagined) before destruction is unleashed. The revolution in military affairs offered by Bush, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz was designed by Wohlstetter and friends at the Rand Institute in the 1970s; the neo-cons waited in the wings ever since. The two Gulf wars, Venezuela and Afghanistan have been the test phases of a new strategic disposition. The UN, Nato, strategic alliances and military assets are being reshuffled to advance US power.

Why now? Globalisation, emerging rivals, economic weakness and multiculturalism menace. Alongside goods, services and wealth flow people, cultures and ideologies. This process has stretched inequalities fuelling outrage, resistance and chaos. It also furnishes great fortunes and business opportunities. Neo-con anger feeds on the disorder, opposition, risk and danger that globalisation fosters. The flows of trade and wealth are embraced as civilising and positive. The proliferation of cultures and forms of resistance is hated and feared. Multilateral policy-making, perpetual compromise and tolerance of disorder and dysfunction are perceived to be lurking everywhere.

The neo-cons recommend impassioned reaction. They offer an alternative vision of globalisation in which the US takes control of a chaotic world. Opponents, rival ideas and rising powers are brought to heel.....cont'd
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
40.  World War Three: The Players: Part two
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
68. DulceDecorum
Mercy Mercy Me Lyrics



Woo ah, mercy mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Where did all the blue skies go?
Poison is the wind that blows from the north and south and east
Woo mercy, mercy me, mercy father
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Oil wasted on the ocean and upon our seas, fish full of mercury
Ah oh mercy, mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be, no no
Radiation under ground and in the sky
Animals and birds who live nearby are dying
Oh mercy, mercy me
Ah things ain't what they used to be
What about this overcrowded land
How much more abuse from man can she stand?
Oh, na na...
My sweet Lord... No
My Lord... My sweet Lord

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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. So, the first priority if we go DEFCON 1
Hand the President a children's book and make sure he reads EVERY word of it before dealing with the emergency.
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
65. what's the deal with this?
" The Washington Post reported in 2002 that as part of the plan, Bush has dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington. These officials have been rotating in and out of one of two fortified locations along the East Coast, according to three officials with firsthand knowledge, the story said."

2002 - shadow govt of about 100 senior civilian mangers to live and work secretly outside Washington!!!!!!!!!!

Who are these guys?? Nonpartisan career civil servants or unelected corporate managers? Ask your elected representatives NOW!

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Reciprocity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
78. Is Richard Clarke a consultant for ABC?
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Reciprocity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. I found it!!
Information Security News: Ex-Security Czar Richard Clarke Speaks Out

By Dennis Fisher
May 26, 2003

During his 30 years in Washington, Richard Clarke evolved from a State
Department staffer into the nation's top counterterrorism official
and, at the time of his retirement in March, the special adviser to
the president for cybersecurity. Along the way, he developed a
reputation for knowing how to get things done and also became one of
the more polarizing figures in the inner circles of power inside the
Beltway. He worked directly for three presidents in a span of 11 years
at the White House and was the driving force behind the development of
the National Strategy to Secure Cyberspace.
He's now working as a consultant to ABC News and several security vendors.Senior Editor
Dennis Fisher sat down with Clarke recently in Boston to talk about
the state of security in the government and private sector and the
development of the new National Cybersecurity Center.
for more....
http://seclists.org/lists/isn/2003/May/0123.html
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
79. Thank John Dean and Richard Clarke for bringing this to the public
and Keith Olberman for allowing John Dean to speak about this issue. The American public has been kept in the dark about the shadow govt of Cheney et al.
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