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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:23 PM
Original message
Sanders 'Filibusters' Tax Deal as Key Senate Democrats Join Revolt
Source: Nation

Senator Bernie Sanders, who has promised to do "whatever it takes" to block the deal President Obama cut to extend tax breaks for billionaires and create a sweeping estate-tax exemption for millionaires, began to wage what he said could be called a "filibuster" on the floor of the Senate Friday.
After Sanders took the rostrum at 10:24 a.m. Friday, the Vermont Independent posted a message on his his twitter account that read: "You can call what I am doing today whatever you want, you call it a filibuster, you can call it a very long speech..."
For all the excitement, Sanders was not actually blocking a vote on the tax deal. The Senate will not take the issue up until Monday, at the earliest.
Sanders was, however, sending a powerful signal about the fight to come.
Then, on Friday, eight Senate Democrats told Majority Leader Harry Reid that they want to amend the deal to cap tax breaks for the rich and protect Social Security.
In a letter circulated by Oregon Senator Jeff Merkley and Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu, the senators said: "We have grave misgivings about the recent tax agreement. We hope that the Senate can improve on it. We look forward to working with you to ensure a vote on our amendment to strengthen Social Security in lieu of bonus tax cuts for people who are doing quite well."

Read more: http://www.thenation.com/blog/157038/sanders-filibuster...



They also offered an outline for a plan that would to restore tax rates on income over $1 million per year to the Clinton-era rates, and to dedicate the resulting revenues to shoring up the Social Security trust fund.
But the letter gives Reid a bargaining chip. He has a numbers problem. In addition to the eight signers of the letterMerkley, Landrieu. Alaska's Mark Begich, Hawaii's Daniel Akaka, Ohio's Sherrod Brown, Minnesota's Al Franken, Colorado's Mark Udall and California's Barbara Boxerseveral other members of the Senate Democratic Caucus have voiced strong objections to the agreement.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Big K&R. nt
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. good. now cap it at zero for the fucknuts. My taxes are hard enough
on my retirement. to pay more would kill me. God bless Bernie Sanders and God bless Vermont.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
89. End it Bernie
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 11:27 AM by niceypoo
You are our last hope
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm fine with the million as long as Bush sunsets.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Ditto. nt
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I have felt the same way for quite a while...
Tax breaks for "millionaires" is much harder for the GOP to defend than "just for those making over 250K" or "the wealthy".
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Good PR point.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. If you earn a mil a year or more and you're only a millionaire, shame on you.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
103. If you earn a million per year, half of that goes to taxes, unless you have write offs...
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #103
118. top marginal rate is something like 34%, so how does 50% go to taxes?
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #118
131. You are right.... more like 35% after pymt of $108K on earnings that exceed $375K
So 35% of 1M is $350K

108K on the first 372K 
35% on remaining 628K = 219800.00

Actual tax on 1M = 108K + 219800K or $327800.00 

That still is a big bite, when you consider expenses are
relative. 

Estate tax is 55%, but now I am hearing it is 45% shooting
for 35%.  

its a rocky road.  
thanks for the correction. 



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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. no, the *marginal* rate is 34%. & the rate for dividend & capital gains income (which the rich
tend to have a lot of, more than wage income) = 0%-5%-15%.

so your entire scenario is bs.

in fact, the average rate of income taxation on all income at the top of the pyramid is about 21-23%, & it's slightly less than the next bracket down pay.

the highest-taxed segment of the population = the upper-middle, not the super-rich.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #132
146. If you want to be agressive about it, I suggest you go to the IRS website and figure out the taxes
yourself.... there you will find no scenario, just tax rates
per my post. 

Government funds need the tax revenue however you look at it.
 

(I am not a tax accountant, but maybe you are.  
I prepare the financials for tax accountants to do their
thing)
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
59. agreed. n t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Agreed! We should not be allowing a bush-ANYTHING live on.
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 11:18 PM by calimary
EVERYTHING he did was barf-worthy, none of it is worth sustaining or worthy of a two-year "temporary" lease-on-life.

If it's a bush-ANYTHING it needs to be sunsetted, dismantled, canceled, de-funded, and/or nullified, as soon as possible (and all of the above, preferably).

And if Boxer and Franken are on it, believe me, I pay attention. I've come to admire Al Franken hugely since he became a Senator, and I'm very impressed with his work and the intellect he brings to it. And Barbara Boxer has MORE than proved her worth - plus she's my Senator, and Thank God - because if we had two feinsteins it'd be a bummer.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. ABSOLUTELY!
everything bush did was illegitimate because his presidency was illegitimate.

sometimes i just can't understand how people think, and what they can so easily forget.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
135. I think it might be because there's so much machinery and energy devoted to pounding away
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 07:30 PM by calimary
at the same messages and framings. It seems almost frivolous to say, but I think it boils down to a PR war that our side just doesn't know how to play, much less win.

First of all there's the huge and many-layered infrastructure that is the delivery system of the message. They have umpteen hundred radio stations out there carrying syndicated limbaugh, vanity, beckerhead, and the whole rest of the vile swarm. Many of those who dominate the radio waves (including stations with better signals and in better markets than progressive stations have) also have TV or cable shows to further propagate their talking points. There is a 24/7/365 cable network delivering round-the-clock propaganda ranging from what they cover to how they cover it, and what they say and how they paint their word pictures and what pictures they select to write to.

Second there's the critically-important how. Consider the very recent revelations from MediaMatters.org showing clearly how Pox Noise anchors and reporters are led around by the luntz? Researcher/strategist frank luntz, who three years ago was saying "I don't know how to fight this guy" about Obama, but since then probably has all kinds of ideas. He's one of many, but probably the most successful and well-connected (read: effective) who writes up emails and memos directing the use of language, words and phrases, "say 'government' option", so as to color and poison the topic by hanging dog-whistle-message-type negative descriptions (well, negative to THIS constituency, anyway, since they HATE the government) and thereby manipulate and manage public opinion on those topics. If you're always saying "tax relief" you're repeating a phrase whose construct is to pair a thing or notion with a modifier that paints it in a bad light. The word "relief" automatically by nature implies that the word it's with, "tax," is something bad - that one needs "relief" FROM. newt gingrich was another one with his little black lexicon of good and positive words and phrases that were to be used constantly when speaking about CONservatives and republi-CONS, and bad and negative words and phrases that were conversely to be used constantly when speaking about Dems or liberals. He did that for his GOPAC people, while a disciple of reagan.

Some people here have called it "the mighty Wurlitzer" or the "echo chamber" or whatever, that has rather shrewdly overtaken the public discourse and has managed to leak out from the cable backwaters to mainstream media everywhere. And our side has only started to get into the game in the past, what, ten or so years? Pox Noise started in 1996 I think. And limbaugh started back in the mid-90s I believe. And they built and built and built while our side snoozed.

A lot of what they built was the infrastructure-to-this-infrastructure, if you will. The same wealthy conservative families and newer pirates ranging from the Mellons and Scaifes to the Hunt brothers and the Basses and the Coorses and the Koch brothers also built or caused to be built endowments and foundations and think tanks where they could employ wrong-headed "scholars" to write position papers and later, bestselling books whose sales figures were manufactured by bulk buys from those same endowments and foundations and think tanks. That's also what groomed commentators and built some major league bench strength of talking heads who were media savvy, many younger and highly photogenic, and knew all the talking points because their groomers were putting all the words in their mouths. They also groomed people who could sort of write, and come up with books that would then be bought in bulk We now have a demolition derby stalking the earth of people who were schooled in this by such wealthy cabals and the policy creeps that slither through them, and they're the Farm Team From Hell. sarah palin, tim pawlenty, mark sanford, bobby jindal, and more, they all learned how to spout this stuff and be activist about it, and got encouragement to slither, themselves, into the political scene by running for office. And of course guess where a lot of their funding came from, and ...

Aw shit, it's just a rat's nest. The many levels of Hell.

And we don't have anything matching it. And they've got roughly a 40-year head start.

Granted, there are SOME institutions coming up on our side, like the Progressive Democrats of America, MoveOn.org, BoldProgressives.org, the Center for American Progress, MediaMatters.org, and a few more. A lot of them are online, like Daily Kos and others. But shit - even so, our army is SO FAR BEHIND!!! Our side has SO much catching up to do!!!!!!

Shit - sorry I ran on so long. You probably know this and far more, already. At any rate, you have all this infrastructure in place to push the message that's been carefully, strategically, and almost scientifically crafted, and a general public whose brain wiring and ability to process information has been seriously messed with. We are TRULY the Short-Attention-Span-Theater species. Especially those of us who've earned the title "Low-Information Voter." And if you're predisposed to have a short attention span, and you've got all kinds of media input coming at you around the clock, from everywhere, telling you ONE thing (Obama/Dems/liberals = BAD!), and NOT reminding you of the grim times that directly led us to the problems we have now (bush/GOP/CONservatives = GOOD!), what's a non-discerning limb-bot or beckerhead-bot to do?

No wonder nobody remembers how crappy the dubya years were! How many people do you hear in big, strong, powerful pulpits where most of America can hear/see them, and REMINDING THEM about that, and helping them connect the dots to what's happening now and what dubya's political brethren want to bring that whole nightmare back down upon us again? WHERE are the powerful, high-profile, influential voices pushing back against that message, with numbers of operatives that large, and with that same intensity and that same reach and market penetration?
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PhillySane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #135
144. Machine Noise
I thank you for running long. Part of what think tanks do is define the other side so you know exactly what you're up against, thus you better know how to defeat it. Maybe that's something else this side needs more of. This is the Bernie Sanders thread and he ran long on the issue in an attempt to defeat it. But out of his speech came some really excellent T-Points or slogans. One was-"How much do they want? Do they want it all?" And, Bernie, the answer to that is yes! They do want it all! So let's not let the so-called mainstream forget it. The rich, corporatist/republicans want it all! The less we (99%) have, the more the 1% has, and only the Democratic Government ruled by the 99%, can change that.

So they somehow have to turn that around and own the issue. Which Obama let them do. The first thing they did after meeting with him earlier in November was to come out and say nothing gets done until the tax cuts are passed. As if they didn't already exist. Like this was somehow their miraculous idea to save the economy. Obama need to say right then and there, NO, they didn't work, thats part of the reason we're in this mess. Remind the country who got us here in the first place. And, NO, we're not going back to that.
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PhillySane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #135
145. America Held Hostage: Day 12
Why doesn't someone bring Ted Koppel back with his original show and focus 30 minutes every night on the Republicans taking us all hostage? Keith Oberman might want to try his hand at it this time.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
91. Agree --- and not happy with Schumer going to $1 million ...
questions re Schumer increasingly --

but GOP always want to move the limbo stick UP for wealthy --

and down for poor --

Soon, you won't be poor until you are in the poor house!!

And you won't be wealthy until you have a billion -- !!

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PhillySane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
105. Who won in 2008?
Why is it that after two years of Obama, who ran on letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire for the rich, closing Gitmo, leaving Iraq, a Public Option in National Health Care Reform, are we now even debating these issues! Clearly the American public voted for the Anti-Bush. Clearly they felt we needed to do an about face and erase everything Bush did in 8 inept years. So now its 2010 and Bush obviously is still President. Notice how the media carefully calls it the Bush-"era" Tax Cuts. Bull. It's The Bush Administration 3.0. Obama has really accomplished none of what he said he would do, which begs the question, "Who did I vote for?". Meet the new boss.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #105
143. that was Campaign Obama...
not President Obama :( Welcome to DU :hi:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
142. "intellect he brings to it"...
it is funny how being a good comedian and being intelligent seem to go hand in hand.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Like Bush tax cuts sunset on December 31, 2010?
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 03:11 AM by No Elephants
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PhillySane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
116. The problem with 1 Million
I don't think anybody, least of all the Bush-Era Republicans, gets that if you throw a couple of ten year wars, allow bubble economics to rape the treasury, plunge everyone EXCEPT the rich into a depression and then still want historically low tax rates, you are setting this country up for complete and utter failure. Someone HAS to pay for all this! All of us do! Let the damn tax cuts expire! Real stimulation comes from careful re-routing of the wealth.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #116
134. I'm totally for sunset.
But we'll have to rewrite them eventually and I'm okay with starting the high tax at a million from all sources even if someone bitches that it's twice taxing inheritance. If it keeps paying, we keep taxing.

No man should be so rich that he has nothing left to buy but his government.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm with Aquart and Laughing Liberal on this one. Rec. nt
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Ditto
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. These senators are negotiating with themselves....
It's as if they have no clue how the repubs use the fillubuster... The repubs will NEVER give and stop a fillubuster that raises taxes on any over $250,000 a year and they have proven that they are more than ready to have the entire country fall apart to keep up their fight....does anyone think differently other than these naive senators?
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. How To Stop a Bully 101 - Never capitulate. When you do, they've gottcha. NT
Edited on Fri Dec-10-10 11:23 PM by juajen
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. So you are saying...
Obama should fight, which any dem prez would lose because of the definite fillubuster and then have taxes go up on the middle class and the lowest tax bracket all for the sake of bring manly and fighting? This would make sense if the president had the power to over rule a fillubuster but he doesn't. Liberals make no sense these days.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Of course he should fight. And he should let those taxes go up
on the middle class if that's what it means to sunset Bush.

No one is making enough money to pay those taxes anyway. It's a scam.

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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That is the stupidest post I ever read....
Do you have any idea how many people are in the 10% tax bracket and if we follow your lead their taxes go up by 50%!!!!!!! People will go into poverty. Thank the good lord Obama is prez and not people who think like you.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. LOL. Right, people in the top 10% income bracket will fall into poverty
I don't think poverty means what you think it means.

lol

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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hello?
Not the top 10%....what is scheduled to happen on january 1 if there is no deal - the lowest tax bracket (10%) will go to 15% - a whopping 50% increase...,understand now the seriousness of getting s deal done before January 1 when the taxes go up and the repubs have even more power? Understand?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. A whopping 50% increase on people who mostly don't pay taxes
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 01:09 AM by EFerrari
in the first place? Who are out of work or under employed? Who have all kinds of depreciation to write off this year? Are you joking?

It's daft to believe that that increase could possibly outweigh the damage done by extending Bush (which will mean no job creation) and by opening up Social Security to the privatizers. Not even to get into the estate tax and the further loss of revenue there.

You want people to trade all of that so the taxes they will most likely not even owe won't go up. Good grief.

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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You don't get it...,
And that's why do many here font understand why Obama had to make the deal with the repubs...,,Are you saying people like myself in the 10% tax bracket who have jobs evade paying taxes? I can tell you that I know alot of people, myself included, if our taxed go up by 50% I am out on the streets...,we live paycheck to paycheck and losing half of it will kill me and my kids right now... So you have no idea what u r talking about. The millions of people in my position don't give a shit about winning a political fight - we care about feeding out families and not having our heat shut off in the winter! This is what Obama wants to protect and is fighting for. Yes, I like millions of other people are underemoyed but that doesn't mean we don't pay taxes and should not be looked out after by the president.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. No YOU don't get it
If you take this deal as it is, then Social Security becomes funded partially by the Federal Government.
It would be the first time in history that that happens and sets the stage for that to be the norm, which
would allow the perception to be created that it is a welfare program rather then an earned benefit
program. This plan sets the potential demise for social security by under funding it and having the
difference made up by the Government.
Additionally this plan increases the National debt by borrowing from China and putting it on a credit
card for your kids to pay off. It's a bad deal. It's not about winning a political fight, it's about keeping
a middle class and keeping social security intact
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. Its a very ridiculous notion to believe you will be in the streets if the taxes
go to 15%... Do you remember how much of an actual difference it made? I, unfortunately, make about the same amt of money as I did under the Clinton years. By the time the tax breaks down over the entire year, its not all that much money.. Then at the tax filling time, I normally get money back.. I know $10.00 a week isn't going to break my bank. I say let them all expire and raise the minimum wage to a living wage. That would be actual help. Work on a Public Option for healthcare (creating a more affordable insurance option). Make it easier for workers to Unionize. Protect our country with real trade agreements that protect the people within its borders, not this crappy give-away that politicians continue doing for their corporate masters.

I remember the tax debate when Bush enacted them.. The rich would be helped a lot.. the Avg American wouldn't see that much of a difference.. There was a reason Cheney had to come out of his bunker to make the 51st vote and not one Democrat actually fillibustered. I don't think its that bad if the tax rates re-set.. We need to pay the credit card at somepoint. And its never as fun having to pay it off than to have spent it during the shopping spree.

If we actually start having to pay for things like wars and such, we wouldn't be so ignorant about how long and how much money we are wasting on them. The draft stopped the last debacle... This one will stop when people feel the actual pinch on their pockets.. Including the very wealthy. In fact, their taxes should be increasing to 50% or more to pay for their causes they urge the politicians to engage in.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
97. My family is barely making it as it is.
We can't afford to take home less pay even if you dismiss it as insignificant.

Well, I guess we can if we don't want modern conveniences like heat and transportation.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. It is called sacrifice and I'm doing it also. Remember, senior
citizens didn't get their cola this year, nor will we get it next year, etc. Already I know that I will get about $50 less after my increases in medicare, health co-pays, drugs, etc. and I am healthy, comparatively. Did senior citizen sacrifices mean anything? Were there people in the streets on our behalf? NO. Sure people spoke out against it, but they just didn't understand. All of our expenses are going up and our benefit is going down, down, down. Sometimes, you have to draw a line in the sand, and that time is now. There is a reason they call it "The Catfood Commission".
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
114. Okay....
So I will put you and others in this thread in the category - no tax deal with repubs and during a very bad time economically for millions of Americans simply allow taxes to go up on the middle class and the lowest tax bracket and no UI benefits for 13 months. This is a suicidal way to go about this...no president sho is serious about governing could ever choose this option.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
44. No, he didn't have make any damn deal with the Repukians.
He failed to take his case to the people and chose to make a BACKROOM deal without even the support of the leadership of the party. He should have had meetings with the entirity of the party representatives and layout a strategy to achieve their goals. His failure is why so many of Democratic Representative are in open revolt. He has not only blow the legislation, he has undermined the Democratic Party as being as dysfunctional as the Keystone Cops.

If this is what eventually transpires it will be the PYRRHIC VICTORY OF THE CENTURY. The taxes will not be increased on the wealthy, Social Security with be a basket case and starved to death and there will be no recovery in site. The 2% cut in FICA taxes also applies to businesses and will only hasten its destruction. The very thing that Republicans as representing the interest of Big Business are dedicated to destroy. Victory? Hell this is a massive capitulation. Compromise? Total capitulation for something that could have been obtained without massive concessions. The workers 2% reduction will be the most expensive reduction in taxes they have every had shoved up the rear end.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. gramps FTW
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
84. Thank you.
:thumbsup:
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
113. During the campaign....
He rook his case to the American people and won them over.,,, look at every poll that says no tax cut for the wealthy.... Problem (which liberals don't get) is that repubs don't give a shit about what the American people want. You live in a fantasy world if you believe the repubs would ever not fillubuster a bill that includes tax cut extensions only for the middle class....it's never ever going to happen.... That is why hostage analogy was used and the reason a deal had to be made.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #113
119. bull.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
65. people making less than 40k are going to see an increase in
their taxes.

that's 50,000,000 folks of moderate to low income who are getting ready to see their taxes take out their eating/heating/clothing/shelter/transportation to work budgets... and those folks are truly the ones who cannot afford to take that kind of hit.

Obama didn't have to make this deal. All he needed to do was to take his case to the American people. He just used the American people to get what he watned and now that he's got it, screw 'em. They complain too much because he can't seem to figure out how to be more acceptable to the thugs.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
83. If you are in the 10% bracket, that means you made $15,650 or less
last year. If you have no tax advice and never read the instructions that come with your taxes, you pay $1565 a year AT THE MOST. If you are a head of household; if you have dependents of any sort, you owed no tax.

You say you have kids in the multiple in your post. If you are a head of household and have two kids, you will not only not pay, you will receive an earned income credit of $5036. It is absurd that you are paying any taxes and are not receiving a check for more than $5000 at the end of the year.

But let's say you just paid the entire $1565, and this year, by again avoiding all tax advice and any publications put out by the IRS, you will owe another $783 this year, or right at $65 per month. If $2 a day is all that's standing between you and homelessness, you are already. The first battery you need, the first doctor visit you require is going to be much much more than that.

So fire your current tax preparer and get the actual instructions for free from the IRS and receive thousands of dollars you never paid in back.

Now please don't change the facts of your post after the fact. The 10% bracket ends at $15,650; you said you have more than one child. The credit I figured pulls you as a head of household. You would get more by filing jointly married.

So now that your problem is solved, is sit okay if Mr. Sanders et al try to save Social Security, try to get some actual revenue into the coffers and restore just a bit of the idea that those who benefit most should pay most?

I could only hope to have representation like this in my beloved Texas. Go get 'em, Senator!
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
87. Numbers
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 11:11 AM by SOS
At 13K taxable (self-employed with business expense deductions) my Bush tax "cut" is $2.50 a week.
A 50% increase means I pay $1.25 a week more if the whole thing expires.

A) It makes no difference to me. Our finances are already in ruins.
B) $1.25/week (half the cost of one ride on a city bus) is a small price to pay for some economic justice.

On edit - while the billionaire tax rate remains extended, the Making Work Pay credit expires in three weeks.
If you are under $20K your taxes are going UP.
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cognoscere Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
102. Take it easy there Podna,
your math skills, or lack thereof, are getting you all worked up for nothing. If the rate goes up from 10% to 15%, which is a 50% raise, your paycheck is NOT going to be cut in half. You might want to go to your local library and check out two books - one on basic math and the other on how to take advantage of every tax break possible. As has been mentioned down thread, between you and your kids and other deductions, you should be getting money back.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
125. Your math is a tad weak
The amount of tax you pay, after deductibles, will go up 50%. You will have to pay that in 2012. They will begin taking that out of January's pay check. I'm not sure what you expect to pay, but I'd guess it is around what, about $3000? So that's about $60 a week. So right now you are paying say $40 a week? It's going to go up $20 a week. That's not "half your paycheck". And you are presuming that nothing will get done next year at all to modify these rates.

Obama had some concerns, but they were far more about unemployment insurance and getting SOME sort of stimulus.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. CHECKMATE. Nicely done!
NT!

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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
130. Items like this are written into the bill to be used as a
tool for people that think in small terms. It's a form of blackmail used to hold you emotionally hostage so that
billions upon billions can be given to the filthy rich.

If a starving man is making a deal to take back the bread factory he once owned, and a deal is made that gives him an opportunity
to further his chance to take back his factory OR he can have a slice of bread to ward off his immediate hunger, which should he chose?

You are doing EXACTLY what Obama is being accused of. Thinking small, expecting crumbs will get you nothing but crumbs.

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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
47. Stupidest post you ever read? I would suggest you reread your own.
PEOPLE WILL GO INTO POVERTY!!!!!

That, my dear, is fucking stupid. And granted it's only 5:50 a.m., but that was the stupidest post I've read today.

Oh, yes, we must give the billionaires and millionaires MORE!!!! That's the way to be prosperous and happy - give to the rich! They'll give it back! Sure they will!

I'm off to dig in the sofa for change - I'll send it to the rich! Do you know their address?

Oh, never mind - I'll just use their intermediary: http://whitehouse.gov

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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #47
64. RRRRROFL...that so great..coffee all over the place..but worth it
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
101. I loved this post. Thanks. NT
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silver10 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
107. Agreed!
I love this comment, thanks!

They've had 10 years of tax cuts - where are the jobs?
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danbee46 Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
58. Perhaps you haven't heard....
Individuals making less than $20,000 and couples making less than $40,000 will see their taxes increase under this deal.
Those are the people in the lower tax brackets.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
111. Oh, the travails of the rich!
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 01:15 PM by Cherchez la Femme
:cry: :cry: :cry:

:nopity:


Your taxes will go up and you'll be in "poverty"?! Seriously, :wtf:
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Agree. not that there wont be some
short term consequences for working class to see taxes go up this Jan. The damage of extending them is worse. In my mind more dangerous and insidious is the Payroll tax holiday. That well will be impossible to only dip into once. I have noted that I dont always agree with you on other political issues -- this is fundamental.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. Fight what? He doesn't want taxes to go up for anyone during a "recession."
And, he gets to blame Republicons for the unpopular move.

Win win, for Obama and his economic advisors.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. apparently O did not consult with the Dems first---he consulted with the repukes
and therefore, this is not exactly a "compromise"----one Dem pres. negotiating with the entire repug group of senators does not a good "compromise" make.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
62. Yep. Really looks like a win from here.
Can't imagine why all those ungrateful purists are upset. EVERY TIME SOMEONE TAKES A LOOK AT OBAMA'S INSANE DEAL, WE FIND SOMETHING WORSE BURIED IN IT.

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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Of course he should fight! This deal is pathetic at best. It's worse than than original Bush tax
cuts.

And losing the measly tax the middle class got will not send anyone into poverty. These - the Bush tax cuts - were only designed for two purposes. One, for the very wealthy to keep even more money - it didn't help the rest of the country - and to break the bank so that the country would have to get rid of the safety net.

What the hell is good about that?

There is nothing that could justify this deal. Nothing.

And liberals have been right about everything. The people who have been wrong should be a little humble about that and quit throwing insults at those who have been right.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. Yes. Obama should fight now not later.
It's a matter of fighting now or fighting later. Do you really think in 2 years time it will be easier to take back those tax give aways to the rich? In 2 years those rich SOBs will be more powerful, richer and more determined since the Dems would have capitulated once already. The economy is not going to be any better in 2 years, especially if the rich are allowed to continue to gobble up all the wealth in the nation. I believe the economy is going to be worse in 2 years. Better to face the music now.

I see no reason to postpone the fight. It's going to happen one way or another.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
93. Well said
I'm not going to say that there won't be any hardships if the tax cuts aren't renewed, but this isn't going to go away. Two years from now, the Repukes will want exactly the same concessions they want today, and their position will be fortified by the fact that we already caved in once. If we continue to rob from the poor to give to the rich, our steadily shrinking middle class will continue to shrink and there's a finite amount it can shrink before we're back to the good old days of feudalism that the Repukes so long for. That is a goal we dare not allow them to achieve. Sooner or later, we have to take a stand and say enough is enough, we already have the most unequal distribution of national wealth of any developed country on earth and giving the obscenely rich even more breaks is only going to make that worse, create a greater deficit, for which the rest of us, including the poor, will have to pay. In short, you can pay some now, or more later when you're operating from an even weaker position and the problem is even greater.

And I don't think the current situation is hopeless. I think Congressional Dems should be introducing - every week, five times in a row, ten times in a row, a hundred times in a row, if that's what it takes - the exact same, identical measure to restore the tax breaks to the 98% of the population and force Repukes to explain to their constituents why they keep repeatedly shooting down tax legislation that bolsters the economy and benefits 98% of the population. I want to see a daily article in the newspapers: "GOP kills tax relief bill... AGAIN." And then let's see how many votes they get in the next elections. They'd be lucky to get elected to scrub public toilets. And if they're stupid enough to let that come to pass, well, then seeing them so thoroughly exposed and discredited might be worth the cost of letting the tax breaks for the rest of us lapse. And, in honestly, if the tax breaks do lapse, there will be hardship, but the $13 trillion deficit the Repukes have given us kind of means that, once again, we're going to have to face that pain sooner or later anyway. If you want to blame someone, blame the Repukes for squandering our surplus and racking up a massive deficit giving tax breaks to the rich... just like they're trying to do now and as some here are urging us to do again for the sake of expedience.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
117. Very good point - i.e. why we should stand firm
and NOT allow the Repukes their two-year extension for the filthy rich.

Re "Two years from now, they will want exactly the same concessions they want today, and their position will be fortified by the fact that we already caved in once."

I hadn't thought that their position would be fortified by the fact that we already caved once. I was focusing on the fact that they'd spin in as a "Demorat tax increase" just like they're doing now. In fact, one of them (I forget now which one) actually admitted it.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
74. all for the sake of bring manly and fighting? (whatever that means!)
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 10:02 AM by AlbertCat
No, you moron! All for the sake of getting this country back on its feet.

Let ALL the Bush tax cuts expire like the GOP wrote them before giving the wealthy (and I'm wealthy BTW) a tax break. Then bring in NEW DEM tax cuts for the middle class if need be, so the world can watch the Repugs block that.... with no strings or excess baggage they can twist into some kind of political points. Let's see the GOP openly block tax cuts, their holy grail....period.

We are fighting 2 wars still ( you think Iraq is over?) NO ONE should get a tax cut!
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ArcticFox Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
75. Oh, you're right
Obama should just give in to whatever republicans demand in order to preserve income tax cuts for people who will more and more have no job and thus no income.

If we want to ever turn this country around, we first need to learn the rich are waging war on the middle class, and this war cannot be won without sacrifice. the less we sacrifice now, the harder it will be in the future. What we might get today for an arm will tomorrow cost an arm and a leg.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
99. Sorry, I fell asleep. I answered further down. NT
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
122. I would never use those terms, but basically?
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 02:49 PM by Chan790
Yes, exactly. Better to let the taxes at the bottom rise (and the rise is fairly small, under $500 for the large majority.) in order to insure the large budgetary-income increase that will occur from the tax-restoration on the wealthy. (Billions. Tax-increases on the wealthy don't just increase tax revenues...they encourage spending and donations to reduce on-paper personal wealth too.)

It has nothing to do with manliness (an area of expertise for me :D) and everything to do with economics. (An area that isn't my strength but as a new-to-the-field business-banker is quickly becoming an area of knowledge) The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy need to die at just about any cost and so does their compromised assault on Soc. Sec., if the GOP is so determined to keep these tax cuts, they'd best be prepared to give away the farm on many many other fronts...to an extent far larger than the President negotiated.

I'll give the GOP on their taxes...but I want a Tier-V, the 13 months of unemployment, a second stimulus focused solely on direct job creation, restoration of the full estate tax, budgetary controls for DoD...and they have to give up the ghost on opposing healthcare reforms...both the one we got and the ones to come. That's what taxes for the >$250K will cost them if its' up to me.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
41. Perhaps you could get a position on Obama's staff.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. Oh jeez, so we should just not ever fight because they won't back down?
That makes zero sense. These are not naive senators. These are Senators that decided the American people needed to have a fight put up for them. It ain't whether you win or lose...you know the rest.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
100. Gee isn't that famous capitulation attributed to John Paul Jones,
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 12:39 PM by ooglymoogly
at the surrender to the British; and one of the principles of our founding fathers in the writing of the constitution. They must not have had a clue either. Yeah fer sher doood, just roll over and die for a few crumbs from the table.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hoorah for the eight. let's make it 15! NT
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. Notice how silent the media is on this? Coverage, if any, is maybe two sentences.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. My only TV coverage of any event
(other than a tsunami or earthquake,) is the coverage offered by Rachel Maddow. Tonight, she offered clip after clip of Sanders in his filibuster effort.

Bernie was awesome.

And rachel is a person deserving of every good thing that can come someone's way.

Thank Goddess for her, and kudos too for Keith Olbermann for his hand in getting her the show she has.
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
42. I watched some of Sanders live on C-Span
late in the afternoon Eastern time. He was fantastic, and everything he says makes perfect sense. When I was listening he was talking about the need to bring back usury laws, the corruption of the credit card industry (thanks, SD and Delaware), and families who are having a hard time right now. He read from several constituents' letters that were heart-breaking.

Sanders is a true hero of this era, and we need more like him.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
147. My TV package doesn't include C Span II but I did go
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 02:27 PM by truedelphi
Over to C Span II's website and catch a good deal of Sanders on the streaming media channel.

I agree with you: I hope that someday soon we have many more like him.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
121. Yes! I noticed!! Hey ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC, NPR, PBS...where are you?
Oh ya...hiding because all of "you" are BIG money and BIG power...and they like it.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #121
129. Of course. Every single overpaid news reader on those channels makes MILLIONS.
And they stand to benefit very VERY handsomely if these tax cuts go through.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. This is the first thing Landrieu has done that makes me proud. I'm beside myself with joy.
I wrote an impassioned e-mail as a discouraged, burned-out constituent could write on why I thought the tax cuts for the super wealthy at the expense of the middle class, the poor, & the elderly was morally wrong. Many constituents must have contacted her, too.

It feels good having one of my senators on the side of doing something good.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. +1 I was shocked (in a good way) that she stood up, for once
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. As shocked as I was, wordpix!
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
110. Yeah, I know. It's hard being from Louisiana, but gee golly, I love
living down here. There's nothing like South Louisiana, nothing. Even with a ruined Gulf, we will persevere.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. Democrats finally put someone through the trouble of an actual filibuster--and it's Sanders.
I'm so proud.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
31. recommend
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
32. No one who earns $30K or less should be paying a dime!
The rich have most of it, so they should pay most of it!
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
33. Thank you Bernie
You've helped a few more find their spine..I hope. Obama cut taxes for the middle class who seemed not to even notice, which tells you how small it was. The average middle class tax bracket pays about 10% of it's gross income in taxes after deductions according to the IRS and that was just about what ours was. The one drawback is the marriage penalty would return. But for a democratic president to actually allow SS to be defunded is unprecedented. That should be stopped in it's tracks. I too am fine with the cutoff at 1 mill.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. Awesome!
:applause:

This is wonderful news to wake up to!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. where were these 8 + the others objecting to the O agreement when Bernie was speaking???
"several other members of the Senate Democratic Caucus have voiced strong objections to the agreement." Who are they and why weren't they there to support Bernie yesterday? :shrug:
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
43. If you haven't yet
here's a petition that needs signing. They want 200K and are almost there.
http://pol.moveon.org/no_bailout/
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Thanks for the link.
Signed.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. I urge every Democrat to sign this petiton. Workers are fighting for their life.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
55. Raising the ANNUAL income for "middle class" cuts to $1 million per year makes
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 09:27 AM by No Elephants
someone a progressive hero anymore?

What happened to $500K a year, or $750K a year? Not enough for Schumer's Wall Street execs or Landrieu's oil barons?

And only 8 Dem Senators will put their names to even that?

It's official. We're pathetic. And done. Anyone have a fork handy?
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. Thanks. I signed and volunteered.
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Celtic Raven Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #43
60. Signed it. Thanks. nt
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #43
76. Thanks
signed
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
49. Too Little, Too Late Bernie
I like Bernie Sanders, BUT did he - or any other Democtratic candidate - place the fight against tax cuts for the wealthy at the forefront of his/their midterm campaign message? The answer is NO! Thats when it was needed to get Democratic voters out so the Republicans wouldnt be in charge come January 1st. The 40% eligible voter turn out for the midterms was the Democrats anti- tax cuts for the wealthy WATERLOO. While Sanders orchestrates his filibuster against tax cuts for the wealthy, I wonder whats his counter attack to get the extension of unemployment benefits, tax cuts for the middle class, payroll tax cuts and job creation opportunities for small businesses when he wont have a leg to stand on being in the minority in January?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #49
77. Better late than never. And you don' t seem all that fond of Sanders, blaming him
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 10:34 AM by No Elephants
for things that are not his fault.

"BUT did he - or any other Democtratic candidate - place the fight against tax cuts for the wealthy at the forefront of his/their midterm campaign message?"

You mean, campaign on it, then act against it, like Obama?



Got facts?

Sanders was not up for re-election in November, 2010, nor does he control the campaigns of other Senators. Nor was Sanders responsible for leaving this matter until after midterms that everyone knew Dems would lose.

Besides, Obama had already campaigned HARD on expiration of tax cuts for the rich. Who knew in the fall Obama was going to renege on yet another important campaign promise?

But, what's your point anyway? that no Senator can do what's right for Ameria on an issue unless he or she featured that issue in his or her campaign? Please.

And you're implying you know what every Dem who did run in November campaigned on. Somehow, I really doubt that.


"While Sanders orchestrates his filibuster against tax cuts for the wealthy,"

- Hello? People making a million a year ARE wealthy. Obama's fighting his own Party for the sake of preserving tax cuts for those making even more than $ 1 million PER YEAR.

"I wonder whats his counter attack to get the extension of unemployment benefits, tax cuts for the middle class, payroll tax cuts and job creation opportunities for small businesses when he wont have a leg to stand on being in the minority in January?"


"His counter attack???" Do you mean "his strategy?"

Please don't believe everything you're told. Republicans were never going to vote against extending unemployment benefits or against middle class tax cuts because of extending tax cuts for people making over $1 million PER YEAR. Their own base would tar and feather them if they did.

"payroll tax cuts" ??? Middle class tax cuts ARE payroll tax cuts, unless you mean payroll tax cuts for the rich?

"Job creation opportunities for small businesses" ???? these tax cuts are about income taxes of individuals. Taxes on businesses are not affected. And, even if they were, we'd be talking about one owner NETTING over a million a year. Seriously, how small a business would THAT be?

Republicons meme that these cuts have something to do with job creation by busineses (big and small), but the connection is somewhere between marginal and non-existent. Besides, these tax cuts for all have already been in effect for ten years. If they were going to create any jobs (in the U.S.) in big OR small businesses, they would have by now.
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #77
94. Thanks for the clarification...
I'm so upset about Demcorats not using the tax cuts for the wealthy as a wedge issue in their midterm campaigns to get out the Democratic votes, any mention of a compromise filibuster that would hurt the middle class, the poor and the unemployed ticks me off. My bad.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
86. Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat...
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #86
95. Thansk for the clarification..
I'm so upset about Demcorats not using the tax cuts for the wealthy as a wedge issue in their midterm campaigns to get out the Democratic votes, any mention of a compromise filibuster that would hurt the middle class, the poor and the unemployed ticks me off. My bad.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #49
88. Um, Bernie didn't run in 2010. His next election is 2012. Nice try. n/t
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Pistarkle Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #88
96. Thanks for the clarification...
I'm so upset about Demcorats not using the tax cuts for the wealthy as a wedge issue in their midterm campaigns to get out the Democratic votes, any mention of a compromise filibuster that would hurt the middle class, the poor and the unemployed ticks me off. My bad.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
126. Too bad you weren't in California
because Boxer did talk about it during her campaign.
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
50. thank you guys
Even the wealthy have given their voice against this

http://www.fiscalstrength.com / we are not alone
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
52. Thanks Bernie...let the sunset.
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Stumbler Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
53. Yay to hear of Franken's support!
Now c'mon Klobuchar, quit draggin' your feet and join the effort.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. if the tax cuts expire and the thugs try to reinstate them...the President
can veto that...right? I am wondering how they can threaten so much when he has a veto pen.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #56
79. It's obvious. Obama does not want the cuts to expire.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
61. K&R n/t
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
63. You know... this pissed me off
Sherrod Brown and Mary Landrieu both did colloquy with Sen. Sanders before 1pm. Sanders didn't yield the floor until 6:59pm.

at no time between the time Landrieu left and Sanders yielded the floor did ANY Dem come down and engage in colloquy.

Now that they see the way the wind is blowing, they all want to jump on the bandwagon. When Sanders was trending #1 in the US and #2-#3 worldwide on Twitter, was that their cue to say "hey!! looky here!!"?

Where was their conviction and spine yesterday when Senator Sanders was showing them what a Senator with a spine looks like?

No where to be found.
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
66. I too am more than peeved at my missing Senator
Wish there was a website where I could send a donation to Bernie as a protest to my own senator missing in action.
As a grass roots movement it could send a pretty good message. Money talks doesn't it? Something like "my donation will now go to Senator Sanders as he was the one who represented me in my time of need." I would love that.
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Celtic Merlin Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
67. Sanders KICKS ASS !
More senators like him and fewer like Reid, and this nation could have a Senate which is responsible to We the People instead of they the corporations, they the lobbyists, and they the richest 5%.

I hope he ties up the US Senate for a MONTH! Yes, a month. For this man, Hanukkah is over. He can tie up the Senate for a month and keep those bastards from adjourning until mid-January. Which is something he should do - if it means killing the tax cut for the wealthiest (who feel no economic pain right now) and reinstating the Estate Tax.

If the Publicans want to hold the middle class hostage to the rich, Bernie can hold the Senate hostage to the middle class.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
68. Harry owes Obama bigtime for helping him keep his job.
If harry had any balls at all, he'd be at the head of this pack instead of the go between.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #68
80. Obama also owes Harry big time, for anointing Obama as the Party's nominee.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
69. This is great news, and I hope the pressure keeps up. How many
more times will we hear Bill Clinton defend this deal, who else will be trotted out to make this horrific
move by Obama appear sane?
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. next one in the ring for the tag team is...wait for it...George W. Bush
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Ya know what, that may be a real possibility....a shameful one but
not much surprises me any longer. GW's former economic adviser was on NPR the other night debating Simon Johnson on the
tax cuts, so maybe GW will surface next.

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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
109. don't think Georgie Boy wants to play politics anymore except to rewrite history
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
70. They need more than 8 to filibuster. Now, it seems they are demanding to add more onto the deficit
with these "bargaining chips". I have no objections to tweaking what is going to the wealthy and even making sure Social Security is protected, but now it seems to be a major pile on to this bill. The President is right about all of this just being a huge waste of time. As we bicker, the Republicans watch the clock in anticipation, tick away the hours until they gain more control.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. They also need a bill on the floor
Make-believe filibustering when nothing is actually being debated doesn't accomplish anything.

The Senate is twidling its thumbs until the term runs out.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #72
82. Doesn't accomplish ANYthing? I disagree.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #72
92. Hmm, checking the blogs, facebook and tweeter
it seems Senator Sanders accomplish a lot. I think more people watched Bernie Sanders than they did President Obama and his Co-President Clinton yesterday.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #70
78. tick away the hours until they gain more control.
And all the stupid tax cuts for the wealthy expire per GOP rule.... they wrote the thing y'know.... to expire in 10 years. The Dems didn't.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #78
108. richies' tax cut expires so may be the best thing - let the clock run out & let the repukes
bring it up again in new session: TAX CUTS for the RICH. I'm sure it will go over big :sarcasm:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #108
123. Fine, they expire for everyone and the deficit decreased by 25 to 35%.
But, the middleclass have to struggle more to make ends meet while paying higher federal taxes and they blame the Democrats. And, the unemployed get no extentions and when they become homeless and are living out in the street, the Democrats along with the Republicans get blamed. It seems to me that allowing all the tax credits to expire is not in the best interest of the middleclass and the unemployed as well as the Democrats.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #123
136. I certainly don't want middle class tax cuts to expire BUT if all the cuts expire,
one side or the other would then (probably) propose that side's preferred tax cuts: repugs propsing tax cuts for the rich and Dems proposing tax cuts for the middle class. Let's have a real debate for once, instead of closed door sessions that even Dem senators weren't invited to.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #70
81. They will not have enough control to invoke cloture and Obama still holds the veto pen.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #81
115. Really? Obama is acting like one of them and you say he holds the veto pen?
I wouldn't be holding my breath on that one.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
106. the repugs may watch the clock, but the tax cuts expire Dec. 31 so
if they won't negotiate, their cuts for the rich are gone.

Make them wait.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
85. well he works for a living God love him
Hooray
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
90. While I do deeply respect Sen. Sanders for his stand
and I agree with him completely that this compromise is completely unacceptable, I frankly hope that it's the Rethuglicans who are the ones who are seen to be bailing out on it.

If I were a Repuke, I'd be laughing myself silly over the fighting between the remaining progressives in Congress and the President. If I were that debased, I'd be glad to see the GOP looking like it was always willing to take the high ground, and knowing that when the Repig numbers go up in January, and an even worse bill is sent to the President, he probably won't have the courage to veto it.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
104. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, sasha.
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KeyserSoze87 Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
112. Bernie Sanders for president in 2012!
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
120. Go Bernie Go! This entire thing SMELLS to high heavens and needs to be tossed out.
...start over.

Tell the RushThugs, T.HaterBaggers, Wall Street and fithly rich...HELL NO!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #120
137. it hasn't even been debated, gone through a committee or two, nothing---it's a rush job
just like the BushCo wars, just like the Wall St. bailouts
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
124. Thanks to all who are trying to help us fund our government services with our money.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
127. You know what this is called? It's called LEADERSHIP! nt
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
128. It's absolutely astounding to me, in a good way,
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 04:22 PM by Blue_In_AK
to see Mark Begich's name on this list. Just yesterday I sent him an e-mail inquiring why he wasn't helping Bernie with his "filibuster." He must have gotten a lot of calls from Alaskans.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
133. Why the hell is a real filibuster in quotes, while all the fake filibusters are not?
MAKE THEM TALK.
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:06 PM
Original message
It wasn't a filibuster
He wasn't blocking a vote.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
140. He ate up business for a day. Hope he does it again Monday.
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #133
138. It wasn't a filibuster
He wasn't blocking a vote.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
139. Mark Udall signed the letter!


I phone in a thank you on Monday!
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
141. it doesn't surprise me to see Franken's name...
but Landrieu and Boxer- nice.
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