STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday November 30

[ozymandius]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday November 30, 2010

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON November 29, 2010

Dow 11,052.49 -39.51 (-0.36%)
Nasdaq 2,525.22 -9.34 (-0.37%)
S&P 500 1,187.76 -1.64 (-0.14%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.78 -0.04 (-1.49%)
30-Year Bond 4.11 -0.03 (-0.77%)

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Market Conditions During Trading Hours

Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold

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Handy Links - Market Data and News:Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    Yahoo! Finance    Google Finance    Bank Tracker    
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Handy Links - Economic Blogs:
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Handy Links - Government Issues:
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Handy Links - Videos:
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    William Black: This Economic Disaster    Bill Moyers with Kevin Drum and David Corn

Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren
Dishonorable Mention: former House majority leader, Tom DeLay

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 = 11

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This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du

[Festivito]

1. Debt: 11/26/2010 13,794,243,004,364.88 (UP 5,953,729,284.89) (Fri)

(Up a some. Good day.)
A looney dinner.
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 9,209,402,845,753.97 + 4,584,840,158,610.91
UP 3,743,380,701.15 + UP 2,210,348,583.74

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 311-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.22 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,217.62 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.65, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 12 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 310,788,992 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 10/04/2010 04:37 -> 310,403,677
Currently, each of these Americans owe $44,384.59.
A family of three owes $133,153.78. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 5,476,974,437.76.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,016,447,921.02.
The average for the last 31 days would be 3,886,885,084.86.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 251 reports in 365 days of FY2010 averaging 6.58B$ per report, 4.53B$/day.
There were 39 reports in 57 days of FY2011 averaging 5.96B$ per report, 4.08B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 786 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.9 and 17.9T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
11/26/2010 13,794,243,004,364.88 BHO (UP 3,167,365,955,451.80 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,651,794,027,380.00 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
FY2011 +0,232,619,973,473.10 ------------* * * * * BHO
Endof11 +1,489,584,040,661.09 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
11/04/2010 +002,136,844,217.63 ------------*********
11/05/2010 -000,209,791,147.70 ---
11/08/2010 -000,059,969,255.93 ---- Mon
11/09/2010 -000,005,858,868.46 -----
11/10/2010 +001,354,516,168.52 ------------*********
11/12/2010 +001,236,686,699.48 ------------*********
11/15/2010 +065,794,144,300.11 ------------********** Mon
11/16/2010 +000,750,562,513.87 ------------********
11/17/2010 +000,670,859,874.97 ------------********
11/18/2010 -002,271,166,541.35 --
11/19/2010 +002,392,756,046.31 ------------*********
11/22/2010 +000,068,056,529.55 ------------******* Mon
11/23/2010 -000,022,584,331.05 ----
11/24/2010 +000,282,063,227.86 ------------********
11/26/2010 +003,743,380,701.15 ------------*********

75,860,500,134.96 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4633270&mesg_id=4633442

[Festivito]

53. Debt: 11/29/2010 13,790,302,153,225.82 (DOWN 3,940,851,139.06) (Mon)

(Up a little. Good day.)
Late short day.
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 9,209,537,226,897.78 + 4,580,764,926,328.04
UP 134,381,143.81 + DOWN 4,075,232,282.87

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 311-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.22 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,217.39 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.65, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 12 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 310,810,592 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 10/04/2010 04:37 -> 310,403,677
Currently, each of these Americans owe $44,368.83.
A family of three owes $133,106.49. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 20 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 20 reports is 6,073,832,794.23.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,049,221,862.82.
The average for the last 31 days would be 3,918,601,802.73.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 251 reports in 365 days of FY2010 averaging 6.58B$ per report, 4.53B$/day.
There were 40 reports in 60 days of FY2011 averaging 5.72B$ per report, 3.81B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 783 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.9 and 17.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
11/29/2010 13,790,302,153,225.82 BHO (UP 3,163,425,104,312.74 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,651,794,027,380.00 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
FY2011 +0,228,679,122,334.10 ------------* * * * * BHO
Endof11 +1,391,131,327,532.45 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
11/05/2010 -000,209,791,147.70 ---
11/08/2010 -000,059,969,255.93 ---- Mon
11/09/2010 -000,005,858,868.46 -----
11/10/2010 +001,354,516,168.52 ------------*********
11/12/2010 +001,236,686,699.48 ------------*********
11/15/2010 +065,794,144,300.11 ------------********** Mon
11/16/2010 +000,750,562,513.87 ------------********
11/17/2010 +000,670,859,874.97 ------------********
11/18/2010 -002,271,166,541.35 --
11/19/2010 +002,392,756,046.31 ------------*********
11/22/2010 +000,068,056,529.55 ------------******* Mon
11/23/2010 -000,022,584,331.05 ----
11/24/2010 +000,282,063,227.86 ------------********
11/26/2010 +003,743,380,701.15 ------------*********
11/29/2010 +000,134,381,143.81 ------------******** Mon

73,858,037,061.14 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4634972&mesg_id=4634973

[ozymandius]

2. Today's Reports

[ozymandius]

3. Oil hovers below $86 ahead of US supply reports

SINGAPORE – Oil prices hovered below $86 a barrel Tuesday in Asia as traders looked to U.S. supply reports for clues about the strength of demand for crude.

Crude inventories likely fell 1.5 million barrels last week, according to analysts surveyed by Platts, the energy information arm of McGraw-Hill Cos. The American Petroleum Institute plans to announce its inventory numbers later Tuesday while the Energy Department's Energy Information Administration reports its weekly supply data Wednesday.

In other Nymex trading in December contracts, heating oil fell 0.8 cent to $2.35 a gallon and gasoline dropped 1.2 cents at $2.27 a gallon. Natural gas added 0.5 cent to $4.22 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[ozymandius]

4. wrong location for this one

woops

[Demeter]

43. In other news, Gas prices jumped 20 cents today

[ozymandius]

5. Japan, South Korea factory output slumps as Asia shifts

TOKYO/SEOUL (Reuters) – Factories in Japan and South Korea cut output in October, adding to evidence of an Asia-wide slowdown and boding ill for the rest of the world that has relied on the region to keep the global economy humming.

Japanese companies cut production for the fifth month and by the biggest margin since February 2009, while South Korea's industrial output fell for the third month in a row, disappointing markets which had bet on a rebound.

Japan's production data coincided with a purchasing managers' survey for November that showed a third consecutive decline in manufacturing activity and a sharp drop in export orders. Official data also showed household spending fell last month, boding ill for the final months of the year.

more

This connects to a little piece I put together over there last night. Orders have fallen. That has a discernible measure in the Baltic Dry Index.

[ozymandius]

6. The Baltic Dry Index

Excerpted from the blogsite:

The Baltic Dry Index has recently popped into mind. It is a good indication of the state of global shipping and, to a broader degree, a glimpse into the global trading psychology. A higher number would naturally indicate that goods are moving across the globe. Therefore, more goods are being purchased, placed on ships and transported from manufacturing origin to consumer destination.

Bloomberg offers a neat interactive chart that allows one to track the Baltic Dry Index. You can stretch the time span over many years to gauge the ups and downs.

[ozymandius]

7. Apartment rents set to rise, fueling inflation: NAR

NAR said ailing commercial real-estate markets -- office, industrial, retail and rental housing -- were flattening out after a steep plunge amid the worst recession in decades.

The cost of rent or mortgages is the biggest component in the government's consumer price index, accounting for 32 percent of its total weight, he noted.

Multifamily vacancy rates were forecast to decline from 6.4 percent in the current quarter to 5.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2011.

more

As the article says - rent and mortgage prices comprise the heaviest portion of CPI. OER (owners equivalent rent) correlates to the amount one could receive at market price on any comparable unit of housing if it were rented in the local market. Property values have fallen over the past two years to put purchase prices more in line with rental prices. However, it is more difficult to buy property today than it was two years ago. As purchase prices have fallen due to excess inventory and the accompanying difficulties, renting has been more popular than buying. It stands to reason that rental prices would rise as a result from the increased demand.

[ozymandius]

8. Banks Refuse to Buy Back Crap Securitized Mortgages

JP Morgan Chase and Bank of America are pushing back against Fannie and Freddie as the two GSEs attempt to enforce contract terms that required lenders to maintain lending standards during the Sub-prime and Alt-A lending heyday.

Nov. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are facing growing resistance as they attempt to push failed home loans off their books and onto the balance sheets of banks including Bank of America Corp. and JPMorgan Chase & Co.

The two government-owned mortgage companies are enforcing contracts that require lenders to buy back loans that didn’t meet underwriting standards. At the end of September, the companies reported, banks hadn’t responded to $13 billion in buyback requests. A third of those were at least four months old and Freddie Mac has begun to assess penalties for the delays.

Repurchase demands from GSEs and private investors combined could cost financial institutions between $54 billion and $106 billion, the FBR analysts said in their Nov. 29 note. JPMorgan analysts in an Oct. 15 report put the total at $55 billion to $120 billion.

more

The GSEs say the reason they are pushing for the buybacks is an underwriting issue - essentially saying that banks did not follow the rules when writing mortgages for people who had little chance of repaying them. Banks say that problems are structural an beyond a bank's control: issue being unemployment.

I wonder what the courts will say.

[Demeter]

10. Government Vs Big Business

the defining battle in the war over Corporatism.

I think the banksters will regret picking this battle. The power to regulate is the power to destroy.

[tclambert]

11. Godzilla vs. Ghidorah.

Whoever wins, Tokyo loses. It's fun to watch from the suburbs of Tokyo.

[Po_d Mainiac]

13. Hmm..Who owns the courts?..n/t

[Dr.Phool]

14. I thought contracts were sacred.

Banks enforce them like religious dogma, if they smell an extra nickel in it for them.

Now they're not so sacred, since the Priest got caught molesting the altar boys.

[Demeter]

19. We Shall See

the Federalists are on very shaky grounds here. Their inherent double standard is going to be thoroughly exposed by their twisting and writhing.

[Po_d Mainiac]

24. More like the bishops got caught

swapping salamis' with lowly priests. In the meantime, the cardinals will walk away with the collection plate.

[rfranklin]

21. Get them to produce the paperwork...

I don't think they can show that the loans they were packaging had any hope of being paid back even if most people kept their jobs.

[Ghost Dog]

26. "loans that didn’t meet underwriting standards"

presumably means the standards weren't met at the time these loans were written.

Do they need to prove 'bad faith', which wouldn't be too difficult I would have thought, though?

[Dr.Phool]

32. There were standards?

[florida08]

30. When the majority of subprimes were liar loans

like SISA or NINA? That's beyond a bank's control? Bullchips. We had to provide documentation on W2s, bank accounts, previous loans open and closed and credit card accounts. And of course they checked our credit rating. They should absolutely have to buyback their bogus mortgage loans or be sued for fraud.

[xchrom]

9. recommend -- heh -- irish stew. nt

[Dr.Phool]

15. They should have stuck with Irish Whiskey.

I'm waiting for the IRA to break out the Jameson's and declare open season on Banksters.

I really think it's going to come down to that. Again.

[Demeter]

17. Then they would have the support of the world

It would be truly revolutionary.

[xchrom]

22. some even specutlated about the continued indepence of ireland.

it's off the chain over there right now.

[Po_d Mainiac]

12. Varied drive-by quotes

Individuals are recognizing that nearly all currencies are being debased.
The response of governments to global banking fraud is "austerity" - or increased taxes on citizens, reduced social benefits (already taxed BTW), and INFLATION.
Yes, do not doubt that INFLATION is the goal of the FED and other government "banks".
Equities won't help you in inflation nearly as much commodities.
Maybe they are gaming the market, but maybe they don't get it.
…………………
Calling this model capitalism is an insult to capital, as it is after all savings. True capitalism cannot exist in a system where money is based on debt, not value; a printing press and not from savings.
…………………..
In financial services, “complexity is fraud”
…………………..
I heard Steven Baccus, R-Ala. this morning saying that proprietary trading had nothing to do with the crash- it was the bursting of the housing bubble that caused it. What crap! He just proved he either is totally ignorant of the underlying landscape or he’s being deliberately dishonest. If this is the opening salvo in repealing or scaling back the meager financial reform that was passed, get ready for a lot of tsk-tsking from the Right on how terrible the burdens are that are now crushing Wall St.
………………….
It was a completely avoidable crisis; indeed for 40 years after the reforms following the Great Depression, the United States did not have a single financial crisis. However, the progressive deregulation of the financial sector since the 1980s gave rise to an increasingly criminal industry, whose “innovations” have produced a succession of financial crises. Each crisis has been worse than the last;

[Demeter]

16. Well, Wishing a Fair Morning to All

Last night co-op, condo and staff members had a fateful meeting with our banker, in which we tried to convince him to foreclose on us, so that our last co-op units could be freed from the shackles of NCB, the national co-op bank that refuses to accept any short sales that would deprive them of 100% of their share loan outlays. Not that they have a chance in hell of getting that money back from the people they lent it to...they were hoping that we were crazy enough to pay them off in full, just to sell the units. (With what? the funds for repairing the roads? On speculation that we could break even on sales, when we know that it's not possible, and it's against our operating documents? Corporations don't think, when there are no faces actively involved. We have never actually talked to a real person at NCB, ever, in the past 7 years I've been on the board, and probably never in the existence of our property.)

Considering that NCB is in 3rd position to benefit from sales proceeds, AND is delinquent for months of carrying charges and the real estate market being what it is in Michigan, they are being more than unreasonable.....

So we are trying to use a bank to break a bank, or maybe just get it out of the way. Our maybe white knight is much smaller, but in first lien holder position, it has the most power.

The banker wanted the condo to buy the coop note, but that would still leave us shackled to NCB, and such a move would require consent of 2/3 of the condo association, and there would truly be nothing in it for the condo association. We are not in the business of real estate development and sales, with hope of big profits, when we would have to litigate every single sale. We are in the business of property management, and managing the finances to cover the expenses.

The banker then made a not-too=subtle threat to sell the note to NCB. I think it unlikely, but it isn't a threat to us.

Buyng the note would put the whole ball in NCB's court, and we would be better positioned to sue for unpaid fees and costs. NCB would have to come up with money: property taxes, utilities, condo fees, which they are already brazenly not doing now. when it's their legally contracted costs...I can't see them volunteering to spend more and taking more risks. Plus, NCB would have to take an active part in marketing, maybe even renovations...I can't see them exerting that much effort to actually accomplish anything.

And in any event, it doesn't matter. The co-op's job is to put itself out of business. It tried to do it with renovating and marketing foreclosed units, but NCB's refusal to clear title has made that impossible. Suing NCB is expensive, and we don't have good lawyers who understand that the point is to win. There isn't any reasonable compromise with an unreasonable person or firm. I think most of us learn that lesson in divorce court...

So we agreed to his requests, and he agreed to work out a deal through his legal department.

Shockingly enough, the rest of the board let me do the talking, AND supported it. This hasn't happened before. I am wary but pleased. Can't tell if they are totally happy, but we had no better idea.

Staff thinks the banker didn't quite believe it. That's the problem with telling the truth these days. It comes off as some massive con game...

[Demeter]

18. The Point Is: Figure Out Which Business You Are In

and that business may change as circumstances change.

NCB is in a declining business. The way they have done business has made their client base look for ways out (conversion to condo, paying off the mortgage and never going there again, going out of business entirely through bankruptcy).

NCB forgot that the whole point of their business is people in homes. They decided at some point that perpetual debt peonage was the name of their game: having a captive market and bleeding it dry. This is why the co=op movement is dying, and why condos have taken their place.

When this happened, I don't know. Perhaps when NCB was privatized.

Same deal with Detroit's Big 3 auto dealers. They forgot which business they were in, back in the 70's. I'm not sure that they have remembered yet, despite repeated shocks to their systems and profits.

Going global is a way to overlook the people in the equation--both your employees and your customers--which means that people stop buying your product. But there are only so many new markets, and a corporation can only con and fleece a population once in every other generation.

[Loge23]

25. Good point.

One of the (many) problems stemming from unrestrained greed is in your last sentence: "and a corporation can only con and fleece a population once in every other generation."
That's OK for today's capitalist, now that the "responsibility to the public/community" side of the mission has been thoroughly discarded. Just look at the amounts of money being generated! This is generational wealth for most of us.
A few quick scores and voila, my entire family lineage from here on in is set.
It really doesn't matter - the consequences. They got theirs.
On a larger scale, I dare say more moral scale, they basically rape their own business for instant gratification.
Alas, we are simply spectators to the carnage of this once-promising great experiment gone completely - and seemingly irreversibly - wrong.

In the spirit of the Holiday, I thank you, Ozy, and the SMW crew (the usual suspects!)for providing a safe and sane haven for discussion in an increasingly hostile environment on DU.

[Hugin]

31. Nope, the auto people still have no clue they make/made cars...

In all of the ads I've seen recently they are still selling financing via leases.

Still at the table throwing the dice. After, all this time.

Hmm... Maybe instead of writing Novels my calling is Country/Western songs?

[wordpix]

36. one business US is not in is making clothes - I was shopping yesterday & Calvin Klein, R. Lauren,

Jones New York and other big name US clothing brands are all made in China. I could not find one piece of clothing in all of Lord & Taylor made in the US.

I'm sticking to US-grown nuts, grapes (wine) and US-made candy this year for gifts. Seriously, this situation is ridiculous.

[tclambert]

47. I once knitted a sweater. That may have been the last piece of clothing made in the USA.

It was terrible. My mom taught me to knit and I made up a design. Sleeves are hard. I like woodworking better. More macho.

[Tansy_Gold]

51. I still knit sweaters.

Just started a new one this afternoon.

If we don't watch out, this thread is gonna morph into an arts & crafts room.





TG, alias Madame de Farge. . . . .

[DemReadingDU]

52. I've knitted sweaters, hats, scarves

sewn dresses, skirts, slacks, jackets

cross stitch, embroidery, needlepoint


I'm sure I have enough extra projects to keep busy for years. But mostly I just read nowadays.
:)

[Dr.Phool]

20. Policy is an institutionalized rule to prevent thinking.

You start out with an adversarial situation where both sides have pre-supposed that the other side is out to screw them, and their job is to win. Period. Even if winning means losing. Attempting a mutually beneficial settlement is seen as a sign of weakness.

[Demeter]

23. Policy Can Certainly Be Used that Way

Good policy constrains the policy maker. Bad policy doesn't. We are now a nation of really bad policy.

[Dr.Phool]

27. Rough day ahead?

Futures 9:00am

Dow -106
S&P -10.9
Nas -22.50

[Po_d Mainiac]

28. A weird day anyway

EUR & CAD are tanking against the U$D...The U$D is getting killed by the JPY....PM's are up. And someone long euros/short gold was just carved like a turkey.

Shanghai is getting blistered..

If this doesn't carry over to a triple digit DOW plunge then get ready for the equator to align through the poles.

[Pale Blue Dot]

29. They already seem to be doing their best to keep it in the double digits.

Will we see, for about the 60th day in a row, a miracle rise at the finish?

[Po_d Mainiac]

33. Dow 11,000/ ES 1,180 is looking like the 38th parallel

Au @ $1390/oz = a close South of Seoul
YMMV

[hamerfan]

35. Maybe...

A midday miracle in the making.
At 1:10PM:
DOW... -10
NASDAQ... -20
S&P500... -2.5

[DemReadingDU]

41. still above 11,000

11,006.02

just barely

[FarCenter]

34. Case Schiller seasonally adjusted house price decline from peak bubble prices

NV-Las Vegas         -58%
AZ-Phoenix           -54%
FL-Miami             -48%
MI-Detroit           -46%
FL-Tampa             -44%
CA-Los Angeles       -37%
CA-San Francisco     -37%
CA-San Diego         -36%
MN-Minneapolis       -31%
IL-Chicago           -28%
DC-Washington        -26%
WA-Seattle           -25%
OR-Portland          -23%
GA-Atlanta           -22%
NY-New York          -20%
OH-Cleveland         -17%
MA-Boston            -15%
NC-Charlotte         -15%
CO-Denver            -11%
TX-Dallas             -8%

Washington DC was up very slightly. All other metros were down 0 to 3%.

[tclambert]

48. Yay! Detroit's not number 1!

One of my nephews moved from Las Vegas to Nashville because the construction business in Las Vegas is so bad now.

[Tansy_Gold]

37. BTTT n/t

[Demeter]

45. Translation?

[tclambert]

49. Bump to the Top, or Back to the Top?

or Back to the Thread? It can also refer to the Brianza Traffic Terror Team, a motorcycle club in Italy.

[Tansy_Gold]

50. OMG! Someone figured it out? tclambert, you da winnah!

I never figured anyone would ever guess Brianza Traffic Terror Team! I see I can NEVER stump you!

:evilgrin:


TG, back to the top :rofl:

[Ghost Dog]

38. Stocks, Euro, Italy Bonds Drop on Contagion Concern; Gold Jumps

Nov. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Global stocks fell to the lowest level in almost two months before paring losses, the euro slid for a third day and Italian and Spanish bond yields climbed amid concern the region’s debt crisis is worsening. Gold, the dollar and Treasuries rose on demand for assets considered the safest.

The MSCI World Index of stocks in 24 developed nations lost 0.5 percent and the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index fell 0.5 percent at 2:41 p.m. in New York, paring a larger slide after President Barack Obama signaled willingness to work with Republicans to extend some Bush-era tax cuts. The euro dipped below $1.30 for the first time since September. Costs to insure the debt of Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland reached records and yields on Belgian and Hungarian government bonds surged.

Stocks, government securities and the euro are being dragged down by concern Portugal and Spain may suffer the fate of Ireland, which had to ask for an 85 billion-euro ($111 billion) rescue package to help bail out its banks. Benchmark U.S. equity indexes began paring losses earlier after confidence among consumers rose to a five-month high and the Institute for Supply Management Chicago-Inc.’s business barometer topped forecasts.

...

The S&P 500 fell for a third day, wiping out what would have been a third straight monthly gain. JPMorgan Chase & Co., Pfizer Inc. and Cisco Systems Inc. lost at least 1 percent to lead declines in 22 of 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which slumped 38.82 points to 11,013.67. Google Inc. slid as much as 3.4 percent, the most since July, as European Union antitrust regulators probed the search engine for allegedly discriminating against competitors.

/... http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHe0GYhG7LqY&pos=1

[Ghost Dog]

39. US-Europe Decoupling At All Time Record

US-Europe Decoupling At All Time Record As SovX - Implied Correlation Spread Indicates Historic Domestic Complacency

In last night daily report by BofA's Jeffrey Rosenberg, one chart stands out: the spread between the 12 month S&P 500 top 50 Implied Correlation (generically a proxy of broad US equity risk) and the Sov X, or the blended sovereign risk as indicated by CDS, which recently hit an all time high. In a nutshell: the spread has never been bigger, confirming that US domestic complacency over all things European (and the continuing levitation in stocks) has reached unprecedented levels, as absolutely no fundamentals can stand in the path of the hedge fund levered beta year end rally. In other words the China-US fatally flawed "decoupling" of 2007 has been replaced with a decoupling between the US and Europe. This will also end in tears. And this is happening even as European markets are unraveling, and as the EURUSD is tumbling, guaranteeing a drop in both US exports and the top line for US MNCs. But why worry: as 58 year old Valerie Whelan yesterday summarized it best: "It's capitalism gone mad." Every move in risk assets higher is merely a bet that central bankers can kick the can down the road for one more day. Nothing else. That it is unsustainable is guaranteed. Willem Buiter makes the case all too clearly that Europe will go bankrupt soon. We expect someone to make the same argument about the US very soon, especially if China does in fact commence tightening, leaving the chairman no other choice than to open the liquidity floodgates in one last attempt to preserve the dying economic system, however, this time without the benefit of being able to export inflation to China.

/... http://www.zerohedge.com/article/us-europe-decoupling-all-time-record-sovx-implied-correlation-spread-indicates-historic-dome

[Ghost Dog]

40. The Next Shoe To Drop: European Insurance Companies

The Next Shoe To Drop: European Insurance Companies - Assicurazioni Generali CDS Explodes

As the idiot market relishes in yet another day of foolish self-delusion that the most globalized market in history can simply decouple between the two largest economies in the world (Europe as a whole is far larger than China), things are starting to stir beneath the surface in Europe. While it is now given that no state will be allowed to default, no market will be allowed to trade down, and no bank will ever be impaired as long until the current flawed economic fundamentalist religion is violently overthrown, the question now becomes (just like it did in the America in late 2008) how far down the foodchain with the global Bernanke put stretch? Case in point: Italian insurance company Assicurazioni Generali (CDS ticker: ASSGEN). The proximal reason - today the company's CDS spread has gone vertical, wider by 34 bps on the day, or about 20%, to 184 bps. Why is this happening? Simple: ASSGEN has total assets of €423 billion, and more worrisome, a fixed income portfolio of €262 billion, of which 93% is European-bond based (Italy 28%, France 22%, Germany 25%). We all know what has happened to Italian bond prices in the past weeks: as of today, Bund spreads have just hit a fresh all time high. But all this is irrelevant since the bank must have a capital buffer to accommodate the losses. After all, what idiot would run a company with almost €300 billion in Euro-facing bond exposure and not factor for deterioration in risk after the events of May... Well the ASSGEN CEO may be just such an idiot. The company's balance sheet as of 9/30 discloses that the firm had a mere €10 billion in tangible capital (excluding €10.7 billion in intangible assets). So let's recap: €262 billion in Euro bonds on.... €10 billion in tangible equity! A 26x leverage on what is promptly becoming the most impaired asset class in the world. We are amazed that it has taken the market so long to realize that European insurers are the next shoe to drop, and doubly amaze that instead of trading points up, ASSGEN is only 184 bps. We give it a week.

/... http://www.zerohedge.com/article/next-shoe-drop-european-insurance-companies-assicurazioni-generali-cds-explodes

[Demeter]

46. Wow

World wide stupidity/cupidity a la USA.

[AnneD]

42. I have been so contrary lately.......

we have been personally doing better but I have felt a growing pessimism in my gut. I can't pay down stuff fast enough or save fast enough. I have only been interested in hard commodities. I thought it was a winter thing but I don't think so any more, esp when I articles like this. We get such sorry news here in the states, both political and economic. You really have to hunt to get good stories.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. I'm surprised to see this racket still going on.

Invest in Numerology!

:D

[Robbien]

54. Sex Charges Against Assange May Collapse, As One Accuser Reportedly Stops Cooperating

Anna Ardin, one of the two complainants in the rape and sexual assault case against WikiLeaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange, has left Sweden, and may have ceased actively co-operating with the Swedish prosecution service and her own lawyer, sources in Sweden told Crikey today.

Where is she?

Ardin, who also goes by the name Bernardin, has moved to the West Bank in the Palestinian Territories, as part of a Christian outreach group, aimed at bringing reconciliation between Palestinians and Israelis. She has moved to the small town of Yanoun, which sits close to Israel’s security/sequestration wall. Yanoun is constantly besieged by fundamentalist Jewish settlers, and international groups have frequently stationed themselves there.

http://www.businessinsider.com/anna-ardin-stops-cooperating-in-assange-prosecution-2010-12


Going from Sweden to Yanoun in Palestine? Fishy, very fishy.