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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:13 PM
Original message
Marine's father ordered to pay Westboro's court costs
Source: Baltimore Sun

Lawyers for the father of a Marine who died in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters say a court has ordered him to pay the protesters' appeal costs.

On Friday, the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered that Albert Snyder of York, Pa., pay costs associated with Fred Phelps' appeal. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at the funeral of Snyder's son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, in Westminster in 2006.

Lawyers for Snyder say the Court of Appeals has ordered him to pay $16,510.80 to Phelps for costs relating to the appeal, despite the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review the Court of Appeals' decision.

They say that Snyder is also struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

-----

Summers added that if Snyder pays Phelps' court costs and then receives a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court, "imagine him trying to get money back from Phelps."

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/carroll/bal-p...



I wouldn't want my money going to that piece of shit Phelps but I'd sure contribute what I could to this father who took on Phelps. What a shitty decision by this court!
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. terrible journalism
Read the article, still don't know what happened or why he has to pay court costs.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. The Huffington Post version:
Looks like the answer to "what happened or why he has to pay court costs" is that the judge made a decision and felt no need to elaborate. If Snyder can't afford this, he probably can't afford to hire an attorney and appeal the decision, either...details the judge could very well have known.

Welcome to the U.S. legal system. Maybe Phelps offered the judge a commission.

BALTIMORE The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters' appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds "insult to injury," said Sean Summers, one of Snyder's lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters' message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead...
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. presumably the reason is that the standard rule is to award costs
Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 39.

That being said, I'm going to send a donation to help Snyder pay these costs.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would refuse, totally & absolutely.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's not that easy. He could end up getting a lien on his house or his pay check garnished.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kansas City Star Editorial Writer

Should Phelps' vile attacks on dead soldiers be rewarded with court fees? Court says yes

By Matthew Schofield, Kansas City Star editorial board columnist

So, Fred Phelps and his band of hate-spewing loonies decide again to protest at the funeral of an American Marine who'd died in Iraq.

They show up waving signs saying such drivel as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "Fag troops."

It's beyond abominable. So, of course, a court today (Monday) rules that having had his $5 million verdict tossed out, the father of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder must now pay Phelps legal costs.

Okay, first off: A sincere apology to the Snyders. Phelps is from the Midwest, Kansas to our eternal shame. We breath the same air. Share the same general spot of Earth.

But, man, we wish we didn't. He's a vile human, and for him, we apologize.



Read more: http://voices.kansascity.com/node/8377#ixzz0jbhh0O8h
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Can't he seek a stay until the case is heard on further appeal?
Bravo to him for taking on WBC, and if he sets up a legal fund I'll happily contribute.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. It would typically depend on whether the judge thinks he has any chance at all...
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 06:31 PM by Tesha
...to prevail on appeal. Free speech being what it is, it's unlikely.

Sorry, DUers, but even free speech that you hate is still free speech.

Tesha
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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. You're right of course
And this is one of the times where we have to hold our collective noses and accept that freedom of speech is designed to protect unpopular speech, not popular speech.

I'd still give him money to help him with his costs though.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I heartily endorse efforts to defray the Marine's costs! (NT)
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 08:12 AM by Tesha
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. Yes, but speech free zones exist for abortion clinics. Why not for cemeteries?
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 04:44 AM by No Elephants
The First Amendment should and does protect speech we hate. However, all speech regulated by the First Amendment is subject to reasonable regulation as to time, place and manner, but not as to content.

And, you can ban ALL speech from a place that is not a public forum. Further, when there is compelling reason, you can even ban speech from public property, such as sidewalks in close proximity to abortion clinics or schools. The U.S. has a compelling interest not discouraging young people and their families from military service.

Funerals of private people (as opposed to say, heads of state) have ALWAYS been private matters, not fora (fori?) for speech by the public. Funeral homes and cemeteries are private property and funerals are private events.

For those reasons, I see no Constitutional issue in banning ALL public speech from wakes and funerals, especially those of the military.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. The "bubbles" around women's clinics are dubious as well.
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 08:10 AM by Tesha
To the degree that they limit how intrusively you can
interact with non-cooperative clients intending to transact
legal business at the clinic, they're probably legal. But I
doubt that attempts to regulate the mere fact of what you
can say inside the bubble are legal and most of the laws
are written to take that into account.

And you'll also remember that it was the existence of these
bubbles that was used against us any time Bush came to
town!

Tesha
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Phelps' family (his "real" one) are all lawyers. God hates fags but loves lawyers!
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Unbelievable
talk about a miscarriage of justice. I wouldn't give that piece of shit one freaking red cent.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Even kooks have constitutional rights
March 26. 2010 6:59AM
By ROBYN BLUMNER
Tribune Media Services

... Phelps followed all police directions and local ordinances. In fact, Matthew Snyder's father, Albert Snyder, didn't actually see any of Phelps' signs until he watched the footage on television.

Later, Phelps' church also published an "epic" on its Web site titled "The Burden of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder" that claimed Matthew was taught to "defy his creator" and that his parents had "raised him for the devil." Albert Snyder saw the disturbing material after Googling Matthew's name.

Snyder sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress and won a $5 million judgment, including millions in punitive damages against Phelps.

But the judgment was set aside by a federal appellate court last year. The upshot of the ruling by the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals was that the First Amendment protects distasteful speech on matters of public concern such as homosexuality, the military and religion ...

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100326/Opinio...
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I bet his crazy daughter is the lead attorney, too.
It'll go right back into the "Compound." How so many oafs could be so closely related is a miracle to me.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. For sure, the Phelps gang are a gaggle of crazy sickos. Nor do I think
they have an unlimited right to get however close to a funeral as they choose: too close an interruption, of people's real grief with their attention-seeking stink, would be unprotected "fighting words," I should think

Other countries sometimes understandably draw the lines somewhat differently than we do, but it's long-established general tradition in the US to allow speech rather than prohibit it -- and frankly, I might suspect the grieving father could be just as offended by my views of the war as by the views of the Phelps gang, though my views don't seem to me to resemble in any way the views of the Phelps gang
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Some here believe in the First Amendment only if you agree with them!
If you disagree with them or offend them, you have no rights. :crazy:
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DumpDavisHogg Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. That really isn't even the real issue in this story
The issue isn't that the plaintiff lost his lawsuit, but that he has to PAY Fred Phelps. It's windfall day for Phelps.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. My natural sympathies are with the bereaved, but I think you misstate the situation:
it's not uncommon to award "costs" in such a case -- this practice (for example) discourages people from regularly filing lawsuits they have little prospect of winning
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. i would chip in, too. eom
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is how the scum are able to travel all over the place
(well, except for Canada, where they're not allowed in)

they sue people like Mr. Snyder and use the proceeds to perpetuate their hatred. :grr:
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Old Troop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. These Swine
Part of the Phelps' demand is to increase the pain on the father and to intimidate anyone else who might challenge them. They seem to forget that their bible counsels that one should have two or more believers quietly talk to someone who is part of the group, but is failing to live their beliefs. If that fails they are to be reprimanded privately and only if they continue their ways are they to be shunned. It says nothing about punishment or public humiliation. I wonder if other fundie groups find them to be allies of the antichrist.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. pay it in fuckin pennies and dump the load of pennies on their lawn - they can eat it
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. That is perfect. The ruling doesn't say HOW they have to pay, does it?
Pennies it is.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
59. Not a bad idea
Load up a dump truck with loose pennies and then drop them on the Phelps property.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. just make sure he's standing there when it dumps

a load of copper like that could keep his mouth from flapping for at least a few weeks while he tried to dig out
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one_voice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. This makes me want to puke.
Is there somewhere we can donate to help him pay these legal fees? I'll donate.

The thoughts of my money going to that disgusting pig Phelps, makes me want to puke. But the thoughts of this father having to try and pay all this, when, in my opinion his son was "spit" on is far worse.

His son served his country and this is the thanks he gets.

:mad:
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Here's the father's website
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one_voice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thank you.
I'll be sending this to everyone I know.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. thanks
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. It will a glorious day when Phelps leaves this world!
:puke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Inappropriate approach
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????????????????
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 08:46 PM by BrklynLiberal
I hope that there is a principled attorney somewhere that will help that man fight this insane decision.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. His lawyers are working pro-bono on this case n/t
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DumpDavisHogg Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Fourth Circuit = fifth column
How can they even THINK of making a Marine's family pay for this?

Congress needs to call this court up on the impeachment block, methinks.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. and what would be the grounds for impeachment?
Phelps is despicable scum. But the fact that the prevailing party is despicable scum is not generally grounds for departing from the standard rule (Fed Rule Appellate Procedure Rule 39) providing for the award of costs to the prevailing party in an appeal. The court has broad, but not unbridled, discretion, in deciding whether to depart from the standard rule. The fact that the winning side deserves to rot in hell for an eternity is, unfortunately, not the sort of grounds on which a court usually bases this sort of decision.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
29. I have met some of the Phelps family
they are nuts who are perpetrating being normal. This ruling is just not acceptable, I suspect he won't have to pony up a dime..maybe the courts would accept a bond or escrow for the funds until the SCOTUS rules on the case?.

Thank goodness for The Patriot Guard..

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
31. This is what happens when we allow people to abuse their freedom of speech
If I was him I would do everything possible to not pay a dime to that family of terrorists, including quitting my job and becoming a hermit up in the mountains to stop the government from garnishing wages.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
32. This is an obscenity. We have to write to the papers and directly
to these @ssholes.

Bookmarking for when my blood pressure goes back down. :grr:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
34. who are the justices on this court? . . . who appointed them? . . .
what an asinine decision! . . .
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. King, Shedd, and Duncan
King was appointed by Clinton, Shedd and Duncan appointed by GW Bush.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
39. I hope the Phelps family gets absolutely everything they've got coming.
And soon. Very very soon.










Their karmic debt must be about as big as the universe would allow by now.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
40. The Law is an ass.

:thumbsdown:

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. Father Of Dead Marine Ordered To Pay Legal Fees Of Westobro Baptist Church Protesters
Source: Huffington Post

Father Of Dead Marine Ordered To Pay Legal Fees Of Westobro Baptist Church Protesters

UPDATE: The Snyder family is seeking donations to help them continue their suit.

BALTIMORE (AP) The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters' appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/29/father-of-dead...
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. wtf! this family's son died serving his country and now the family is forced to
pay legal fees for the assholes that disrupted the funeral!! that is bullshit!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. This news is a day old. Amazing ruling. nt
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. That's an outrage.
A nauseating outrage.

:grr:
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DeepBlueC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. I don't get it
Anyone know more about why?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Well, the Phelps people are a church, and churches can do
no wrong. The bigotry they display is supported by most of their faith mates, if not in style, certainly in substance.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. It started when Snyder sued the Phelps clan.
Initially he won, but then a higher court overturned it (with some urging from the ACLU, mind you), and Phelps then said, "Hey, make them pay our legal costs," and the court said okay.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. There needs to be a fund rasier for this family. n/t
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. you can donate to al snyder's legal fund..
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Thank you for that! I am deeply offended by the fact that this family
would have to pay even one nickel...so I will help.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. i felt a need to donate as well
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dickthegrouch Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
51. Outrageous. Donated /nt
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
54. yes, it sucks. and yes its standard procedure
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 12:34 PM by onenote
The Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure, rule 39, provide as follows:
Rule 39. Costs
(a) Against Whom Assessed. The following rules apply unless the
law provides or the court orders otherwise:
(1) if an appeal is dismissed, costs are taxed against the appellant,
unless the parties agree otherwise;
(2) if a judgment is affirmed, costs are taxed against the appellant;
(3) if a judgment is reversed, costs are taxed against the appellee;
(4) if a judgment is affirmed in part, reversed in part, modified,
or vacated, costs are taxed only as the court orders.

While the court has the discretion not to follow the standard rule, generally courts don't depart from the standard rule simply because the prevailing side in a legal dispute is a bunch of dirtbags.

On edit: While I understand the rationale for the ruling, that doesn't mean I want Snyder to have to pay and urge others to join me in donating to cover these costs.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. I'd burn every cent I had before giving it to Phelps.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
58. Westboro can afford $16,500 a lot better than a private citizen can.
WTF does that judge think he's doing?
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
60. O'Reilly Pays Legal Bill for Fallen Marine's Father
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Good for him.
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Old Vet Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Have to admit this is a noble jesture,
I may not agree with anything bill does, Thanks Bill
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
64. It sickens me, but I agree with the core decision..
The first amendment protects speech, even disgusting speech.
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