Fearing Obama Agenda, States Push to Loosen Gun Laws

[NeoConsSuck]

Source: NY Times

When President Obama took office, gun rights advocates sounded the alarm, warning that he intended to strip them of their arms and ammunition.

And yet the opposite is happening. Mr. Obama has been largely silent on the issue while states are engaged in a new and largely successful push for expanded gun rights, even passing measures that have been rejected in the past.

In Virginia, the General Assembly approved a bill last week that allows people to carry concealed weapons in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, and the House of Delegates voted to repeal a 17-year-old ban on buying more than one handgun a month. The actions came less than three years after the shootings at Virginia Tech that claimed 33 lives and prompted a major national push for increased gun control.

Arizona and Wyoming lawmakers are considering nearly a half dozen pro-gun measures, including one that would allow residents to carry concealed weapons without a permit. And lawmakers in Montana and Tennessee passed measures last year — the first of their kind — to exempt their states from federal regulation of firearms and ammunition that are made, sold and used in state. Similar bills have been proposed in at least three other states.


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/us/24guns.html?hp

[depakid]

1. Yet another symptom of a nation in decline

and headed toward third world status.

Hang on to your hats- it's looking like a rough reactionary ride ahead on the way down.

[peggygirl]

25. Maybe the gun-happies will shoot themselves in the foot and be locked up

like a certain football player.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. He wasn't locked for shooting himself.

[old mark]

2. Rec. The NYT has been quite wrong on gun issues many times and I believe they are wrong again.

I think the changes in state gun laws are grass roots politics - what most people want - rather than any response to the perceived threat from Obama. One of the dumbest things the Democrats could do is to get crazy about gun control. It is still hurting us from the Clinton days.
It was stupid then and accomplished nothing positive and would be even worse now.
I believe this is an outgrowth of the shall-issue laws most states have passed, and I HOPE it leads to a standardization of state gun laws, especially carry laws, to effect a nation-wide carry provision. It is coming, I just hope it comes soon.

mark

[Demeter]

3. I believe current gun control push fell out of Reagan assassination attempt

The Brady bill==remember that?

[old mark]

9. Brady=handgun control groups=republicans. Democrats get the blame

for republican anti-gun pressure groups.

mark

[depakid]

4. Yep- let's all emulate these paranoid and reactionary red states

and spread irrational fear of Obama and "socialists' all around the nation....

Beats trying to actually solve the problems that the states and nation faces.

Just arm everyone an make sure that guns are spread everywhere far and wide, so people can turn to them to settle their disputes with the government, employers, cops, family members, girlfriends, etc.

I agree with you on one thing, though- responsible gun regulation and control has to be undertaken on the national level- otherwise, they'll just flow in unimpeded from the nutter states.

[old mark]

10. Sorry, but I am against gun control, period. I want to see uniformity of state laws

at the most liberal level, and reciprocity among all states for carry licenses. I can legally carry in something like 40 states now thanks to my PA license.
I'd like to see all 50 come around and I believe they will.

mark

[winston61]

13. Just why do you feel the need to pack a gun?

I've lived in all places, Texas for 40 years and you don't get much more reactionary than a Texas Bubba republican, yet even here I don't live in fear. I'm not knocking you packing heat, just curious.

[old mark]

20. Why do you feel the need to make decisons for others?

I have no problem with you NOT having a gun.

mark

[SteveM]

22. Perhaps this will help...

Within the entire community of gun-owners, only a comparatively small number carry-concealed. Some carry because of occupation (carrying large amounts of cash, pick-up & delivery in "rough" areas of town, living in rough areas, etc.), some because of the "randomness" of mass shootings (rather rare occurrences, despite the media hype). There's is a response to fears.

I am curious as to why you think I live in fear? I sleep well, my taxes are paid, I have no debts, and I find time to do volunteer work. "Fear" within limits is a healthy emotion. It causes you to identify and assess the sources of your fear -- and to take action. Sometimes the action is in buying house insurance; the odds are rather low my house will burn down, so I do not "live in fear" of this. Sometimes the action is having a firearm nearby; the odds are low I would suffer a home invasion, so I do not "live in fear" of this either. I have met the fear and taken corrective actions.

"Fear" should not be used as a pejorative, since we ALL have them. Fear is a healthy emotion to be taken seriously.

[Zoeisright]

47. Usually a small dick.

[Chef Eric]

15. What a terrible burden not to be able to carry a gun in all 50 states!

I can't imagine how persecuted and oppressed you must feel. How do you endure?

[old mark]

21. Someday, all mankind will be free. Thanks for your sarcasm. nt

[Pavulon]

37. By gutting this 90's issue and electing people who realize gun control is a scam

designed to fool stupid people into thinking the government is stopping crime where they live. The "hey look we did something" activity is now going away. The game is up.

Its a well regulated space already, and I should be able to drive from one place to another with uniform firearms rules.

I should not have to give a lawyer in NYC or SOCAL $15,000 in cash to donate to the right people to get a permit. Which is legal and effective. But not fair.

The issue is dead, time to move on.

[SteveM]

16. Let's do something more constructive: drop gun-control as an issue...

Clearly, the gun-control lobby has lost this culture war, big-time. And in politics, when you lose not only political races but on over-riding issues, the "other side" will roll you up and push for more. That is the way of politics.

You have said that "emulating" the states pushing for liberalized gun laws "beats trying to actually solve the problems that the states and nation faces." I can understand the sarcasm. But you defeat your own contention that "red states" are "paranoid and reactionary" and "spreading irrational fear" when you say the following:

"I agree with you on one thing, though- responsible gun regulation and control has to be undertaken on the national level- otherwise, they'll just flow in unimpeded from the nutter states."

With that kind of language, and yes with that continued willingness to continue fighting a lost war, you directly serve the interests of the "nutter states."

A final point. When you further say: "Just arm everyone an make sure that guns are spread everywhere far and wide, so people can turn to them to settle their disputes with the government, employers, cops, family members, girlfriends, etc.," you may have come closer to identifying just who is paranoid on this issue.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. What additional regulation would you want to see

I agree with national standards, it would over ride some of the California crap I have to deal with these days...

[Kolesar]

6. Not grassroots--Weapons makers propaganda has an effect on the small mind set

The people who cannot keep more than one thought in their head at the same time

[SteveM]

18. Poking at people's intelligence is a favorite (and faulty) tactic...

"The people who cannot keep more than one thought in their head at the same time."

This is the kind of language used in culture war, and is a barometer for who is getting beat. The truth of the matter is that the "propaganda" of the "weapons' makers" is not much of a concern. If you want to find a bigger source of propaganda, look to the pro-2A sites (the NRA is a big one, but only one) and you will see a true ground-level "grassroots" special interest organization which is considered the most powerful in the nation. I don't like what a lot of these groups say or believe, but their power and influence literally keeps President Obama and the pro-gun control officer-holders in complete check, more so than on ANY other issue. These groups know his background, they know the language which remains TO THIS HOUR in the DNC platform, and they know how to organize.

So get off the high-horse of a "beautiful mind." You are up against groups who are a lot more sophisticated, more intelligent and vastly more effective than you would have us believe.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. The propagandists on this issue are Daley, Bloomie, VPC, and the like who lie about it daily

The weapons makers are a very small industry and do little to no advertising outside of gun magazines.

[No Elephants]

38. Let'sget rid of state laws and powers entirely bc a lot of things would be easier if there were just

one federal rule. After all, living in Montana is not really any different from living in Manhattan.

[Pavulon]

40. You are right, I would have to give a lawyer 10 - 20 k to "donate" to get a permit

to carry in NYC. I can still get one, it will just cost me a whole shitload more than it would in Montana.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kolesar]

7. Spineless, stupid state legislators...eom

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ro1942]

8. Fear what agenda?

Don't see Obama standing for anything

[liberal N proud]

11. There has been no talk from the Obama Administration about GUNS

Yet these crazies want to fabricate some fear so they can drive through changes in decades old laws.

:crazy:

[SteveM]

23. Check out the DNC Platform and Obama's record. nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. Nobody gives a shit about the platform

Nobody reads it, and certainly nobody legislates on the basis of it. The quadrennial Party Platform is an exercise this philsophical masturbation and appeasing special interest groups. That's true for both Republican and Democrats (at last - a bipartison approach to something!)

As to Obama's record, there is virtually nothing there that should alarm a gun owner -- this gun owner included.

And before you go there, yes, I've read the NRA's election year talking points from 2008 -- all of which have been thoroughly debunked.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. If it is so meaningless, why should we put ammunition in it to be used against us?

[LanternWaste]

41. What specifically are you then referring to?

Nothing in DNC Platform re: gun ownership. What specifically are you then referring to?


http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

[beevul]

44. From your own link...

Section 3 : Firearms.



"We can work together to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements – like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system, and reinstating the assault weapons ban..."

Banning any class of firearm, by definition, relates to ownership.

[Stumbler]

12. It's interesting how Dems & libs always get accused of trying to take our guns away

As I recall, the most recent attempt to remove guns from the hands of civilians was after hurricane Katrina in New Orleans when Blackwater, backed by the Bush admin, went from house to house removing firearms.

[SteveM]

19. Uh, orders to confiscate guns came from New Orleans' politicians...

who evidently didn't care who did the confiscation.

[pasto76]

14. wow, concealed carry without a permit

thats like, a really stupid idea.

[onehandle]

17. Teabaggers bitterly clinging to their guns. nt

[eagertolearn]

24. These fanatic gun people are crazy. We live out in the wild west

and there has been more shootings in the last few years (murders and suicides) then in my whole 16 years here. Last night a crazy guy showed back up in town and shot his adult son and then killed himself. Many other family members were saying they knew he shouldn't have had a gun. Yeah really safe out here with all these guns!

[Owl]

26. Silliness

[Javaman]

27. LOLOLOLOL I see the gun manufacturers need to move the old stock yet again...

I guess these morons refuse to pay attention.

If anyone notices, this bullshit always gets floated after the first of every year.

Why? Got to move out the old stock.

simply priceless.

the weapons manufacturers never ever have to have a sale, they just use the manufactured fear of "THE GOVERNMENTS TAKING AWAY YOUR WEAPONS!!!!" LOL

the mouth breathers run out, buy a dozen or so guns and a million rounds of bullets, then, as usual, nothing happens. LOL

They will be out huge amounts of money while the gun lobbyists laugh all the way to the bank.

Simply priceless.

The weapons industry lives by the old saying, "sucker is born every minute". LOLOLOLOL

Guns are the new TV's.

[fascisthunter]

28. "Obama Agenda"... more phony crap to pump up gun sales I see

nice bullshit excuse there... right in time for a civil war of right wingers trying to bully the rest of the country, because they don't have the balls nor the intellect to partake in politics, so let's resort to guns.

If ya think that statement is crazy, go look at what right wingers post in regards to their guns, this government, and liberals in general.

[krabigirl]

29. I've been thinking about learning how to shoot a gun, in case one of these crazies attacks me, lol.

[Blue_Tires]

30. at least the gun makers are happy

they have gotten a LOT of mileage out of their fear campaign...i'm guessing their balance sheet is pretty healthy, even in a recession...

3-4 years from now when they finally wake up to the fact that Obama hasn't snatched the arsenal away, I'll be able to buy it up really cheap...

[slackmaster]

32. I made several thousand dollars on stock in one gun manufacturer

Fortunately I had the sense to sell it when I did - Right before they failed to get a big .gov contract and the price fell like a rock.

[No Elephants]

39. "Fearing Obama Agenda" Oh, that's hysterical.

Does anyone seriously expect us to believe that is the reason? Even after the great ammo scare of 2008?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The abyss]

43. Gun control is just another divisive topic thrown out to the groundlings.

It is a playing card encouraging the US citizens to continue thinking that there is some significant difference in the political players. It is used no different than the abortion issue.

The federal government never seriously considered hard firearms control legislation until after the Bonus March of 1932. The passage of the 1934 firearms act, which actually allowed federal oversight on sales of automatic weapons and identified “destructive devices” etc. was not passed in any attempt to halt the activities of Dillinger or Pretty Boy. It was passed because the federal government feared a return of the Bonus Marchers. It feared an armed populist rebellion that was brewing due to the economic collapse.

Now days the topic means nothing. Too few of the citizens actually know why the second amendment was written. It is viewed only in “self-defense” terms and serves only the forth estate as fodder for cartoon polls and stories.

[beevul]

45. Please elaborate.

"Too few of the citizens actually know why the second amendment was written."

Whats your take?

[The abyss]

48. The second was written as a guarantee.

Just as were the rest of the original amendments.

In short: This newly formed government will field a well-regulated army in defense of the proposed nation. The people will have no fear of this army. The people’s right to bear arms will not be infringed.

I believe the core of the second can be found in reading the “Federalist Papers”. The faux debate and letters, and topics written and published prior to the ratification.

The survivors of the revolution feared any form of central government; they feared a standing army. The second was a guarantee that if the ideal of a federal government was supported by them then the “people” would always be able to stand on equal footing with any “well regulated militia”.