Lawmakers want more H-1Bs, new 'Founders Visa'

[Newsjock]

Source: Computerworld

Nearly 90 members of the U.S. House are co-sponsoring an immigration reform bill that would make some broad changes to the H-1B program, as well as take the high-skilled employment debate in new directions.

The legislation would create a federal agency to review U.S. employment needs, a new type of visa for start-up founders, as well as an increase the supply of H-1B visas.

... But whether this 700-page, yet-to-be-released bill, will get the support of either the tech industry or H-1B critics is less than clear. Both sides may find things to love and hate in its basket of provisions.

One provision that may win tech industry support, calls for the release next year of all the unused H-1B visas from 1992-2008, around 309,000 visas, said one source who has seen some details.

... The bill exempts "several categories" of highly skilled workers from employment-based immigrant visa caps. But just what those categories include wasn't detailed.

Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142341/Lawmakers_want_more_H_1Bs_new_Founders_Visa_

[Newsjock]

1. 309,000!

I'm floored. 309,000 more jobs lost, lives ruined. Congress screws American workers yet again.

[OhioChick]

2. I'm tired of getting fucked over. n/t

[nebenaube]

9. You are not the only one... n/t

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

25. You enjoy shitting on the American worker....your posts speak volumes.

As you've pointed out before, you're a well-paid attorney, a latte liberal, completely immune from having your job out-sourced. Your pro-globalization posts are self-serving, nothing more.
Nothing more than a tool.

[ChromeFoundry]

26. hey chick.....the ignore function works great with THAT one.

;)

[superconnected]

34. Check out his profile after he was removed. I love the tombstone!

[ChromeFoundry]

35. He/She is still with us. See post #21.

:eyes:

[superconnected]

41. Can't, it's one of the people I put on ignore. They must have deserved it.

I refuse to take anyone of ignore because it take them actual work to get there.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Illuminated]

42. Is congress full of high-fuctioning retards?

Ding! Answer is yes. Can we please help out our AMERICAN workers first?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. You mean, like unions do? -nt

[yourout]

3. H-1Bs sould be directly tied the the unemployment rate. If the rate goes up H-1Bs go down.

[Lasher]

4. Release of unused visas?

There's no releasing to do, they're gone if not used. What a load of bullshit! How about I release all the cans of whupass I didn't unleash from 1992-2008?

[hatrack]

5. Or maybe we could release some Dry Powder held in storage for lo these many years

:eyes:

[avaistheone1]

12. I can't believe anyone is proposing this with 20% unemployment.

The article goes on to state that Chuck Schumer is a strong proponent of HB1 visa program.

Figures another Democrat out to screw the American people. I was hoping we could expect better from the Democrats now that they have all the power.

[SOCALS]

22. He probably hopes that

they will vote for him after they become naturalized citizens here

[dflprincess]

6. And who are these 90 members of Congress, anyone know? n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

7. And this is labeled as 'reform'?

fucked every-which-way and sideways.

[dflprincess]

8. I'm starting to get nervous whenever Democrats label something "reform"

I just assume it means the opposite, sort of like Bush's "Clear Skies".

[avaistheone1]

11. I feel the same way.

[pissedoff01]

10. ~20% unemployment - America has more than enough people.

Charity begins at home.

[lovuian]

13. This is a country being ruled by a few corrupt and evil people

they better watch out

[pundaint]

14. I scanned the bill and read some likely sections but I can't find H-1B

references in the text. Can you provide a little more info on where to look for the H-1B related provisions?

[treestar]

21. No, they won't, and they will continue to lie about what an H-1B is

For instance, they will continue with the lie that H-1Bs work for less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

[superconnected]

23. hate to break it to you but anyone can write a wiki. I could have written that.

Every job I've worked at for the past 6 years has had the company lay off the techs doing the job, and me train the h-1bs who were not more qualified to do the job to replace those people. I've done it twice at the job I'm at now even. Really, you are severely uneducated about this if you think that overall they don't cost the company less.

[Deja Q]

29. You mean, wikis can be spun and altered for bias or political intent? No way!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:



Anyone using wikipedia as a reference should be using other references, unless it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the wiki in question is unbiased. Many are not. Many included abstract tangents and irrelevant parallels. I know. I used to see that sort of connectivity and logged into take out the bullshit. Inference is not fact. A parallel is not fact. Preferential bias is not fact.

Such as this:

All gerbils are green.

Alfred is a gerbil.

Therefore Alfred is green.


Here's the problem: Gerbils are not green. Not even when drunk. Somebody altered the encyclopedia to suggest the notion gerbils are green.


Or another:

A + B = C

does that mean

C - B = A

?

Hardly. Nobody mentioned if the values for variables A, B, and C were identical for both equations. It is inferred that they are. But when I wrote those two equations, I was thinking of different numerical values.

It's like that dumbass "Did you know?" video. It discusses populations but then makes an opinion about what the numbers mean. *BZZZT* Wrong. Good Adobe Flash skills, but poor cognitive thought behind the advertisement. Never mind some numbers were making big claims, but the polar opposite claim was ignored. (If 25% of the whole is better, that says nothing about the remaining 75%, never mind the raw numbers to begin with because percentages are not valid indicators. 25% of what? 20? 500? 50,000? 100 million? 2 billion? And the tangents thereof and the inferences made from them, too...)

[OhioChick]

24. Wiki is the BEST you've got?? How about coming up with some "real" info?

:rofl:

Fed indictments tell how H-1B visas were used to undercut wages

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9127943/Fed_indictments_tell_how_H_1B_visas_were_used_to_undercut_wages?intsrc=hm_list



H-1B visa holders are paid less than US counterparts-----Note this is from an Indian news source

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/nm16/H-1B-visa-holders-paid-less-in-US/Article1-147259.aspx

[Dr.Phool]

30. You know, OC. I think Chrome is right.

In around 7 years on this board, I've never used the ignore function. The last couple of weeks, I've been using it as moran repellent.

Bye Treestar!

[superconnected]

32. I've noticed that too. You're right. Bye, Treestar.

[Techn0Girl]

43. I'm taking the oher poeple's advice here and putting you on ignore - but before i do....

I'd like to tell everyone here that I m an underemployed I.T. worker who has seen her industry and her wages decimated by H1B visas.

I have worked at Boeing, Intel and Indymac and I can assure you that H1B visa workers make 1/3 to 1/4 the wage of an American worker and are regularly subjected to abuses such as unpaid hours and overtime because if they complain that lose their Visa and are deported back.

H1B visas are directly responsible for dropping wages in I.T. from 1/2 to 2/3 since 1999. An I.T. tech who made 40K with benefits in 1999 now will be working for 15 an hour give or take WITHOUT benefits as a temporary contract worker.

And now I am going to take everyone's advice here and ...

[moonbatmax]

15. What we NEED to do...

is replace the H-1B with a national job placement program.

I think the US government already hires many of its own employees through at least one online database. Perhaps they could let prospective employers offer their own jobs through the same, or a similar one. They could even help employers match applicants to their needs! If no suitable matches could be found, of course, a visa might be needed, but with the current level of unemployment, this should be a very rare necessity.

Of course, the employer would be expected to make every reasonable effort to find a suitable American. That would mean considering and interviewing any and all candidates who can meet the basic requirements with a reasonable amount of training. They couldn't get fussy over details like brands and models of equipment, of course. One could hardly expect everyone in a given field to have used the exact same model of machinery, or the exact same software. An initial period of orientation and familiarization is only to be expected.

Degree requirements would have to be justified, too, and expected to come at a premium. I think many of us have heard of more and more employers demanding at least a bachelor's degree, if not a master's. Almost surely, in some cases, for no better reason than they can. If enough Americans are available that employers can be selective, there's clearly no need to look overseas; just cast a wider net here. Either accept (perhaps train) a lesser candidate, or offer a competetive wage.



This is the real problem. Employers want the most skilled workers they can get. They just don't want to pay for them. What I don't understand is why they stay here in America, when apparently, all the best workers live abroad. Wouldn't it be simpler to operate where the cream of the crop comes walking right up to your door? Wouldn't it be easier to hire without having to get the government involved?

Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather have businesses operating here in America, but what good is that when all the skilled labor is shipped in from overseas? Of course, they'd never dream of outsourcing their own jobs (except for Click and Clack). There's just no substitute for the American CEO!

I say, if American companies want the American government to help them fill their empty positions, the American government can provide them with American workers. A lot of Americans are needing work, right now, and apparently, a lot of American companies need workers even in this economy. It looks to me like the American government has the perfect solution staring it straight in the face.



And it ain't no God-damned work visa.

[sendero]

16. I think we need to get a list..

... of the nearly 90 congresspersons who support this.

We need to build a web site and pledge a campaign to fund their opponents and run them out of office.

Anyone talking about work visas in this climate must not want to be in congress any more, we should help them out.

[ima_sinnic]

48. +++1 let's get 'er done

[Dr.Phool]

17. Is this more of that "Change we can make believe in"?.

[saigon68]

33. Yes it is

Yes we can

[Odin2005]

18. This is BS!

We should be kicking all this cheap labor out of the country.

[Deja Q]

28. Or stop buying the poorly made products and services.

Which aren't cheap. I haven't seen prices go down. But "profits for executives and shareholders are up".

As long as shareholders get precedence over customers, nothing will change.

And remember, stockholders are customers too.

[Deja Q]

27. These House members - can't we offshore their jobs?

Okay, America would be worse off, but it'd cost a lot less to fuck up this country and its smart, hard working citizens...

[Mari333]

31. bought and paid for, whomever they are

bought and paid for corporate whores.

unbelievable.

[Garam_Masala]

36. Are H1B visa people legal or illegal?

Do they pay US taxes?
Do they get welfare cash and free emergency treatment in hospitals?
Are they more likely to commit crimes than average US citizen?
Did US taxpayers foot the bill for the education of H1B visa holders?

Just asking questions to stimulate discussion.

[ChromeFoundry]

37. If their sponsor [company]...

fabricated the job requirements in order to exclusively hire a low wage worker, replaced a US worker or likes the idea of having an employee's visa status controlled by the corporation... uh, yes... illegal. I'm not stating that the visa holder is at fault, merely that they are here under falsified documentation... Illegal. The most recent study conducted by our federal government shows there was fraud in OVER 20% of h-1b applications in a narrow spot check.

[Garam_Masala]

38. In those 20% of cases I am all for prosecuting the employers

You can't fault the employee..he/she has neither the money or time to
investigate if other American citizens are available of comparable skills.

[ChromeFoundry]

39. maybe you didn't understand, that 20%

was a cursory overview of a small sampling of a few hundred applications. There was no in depth research to actually LOOK for fraud.. these were blatant. So what does this tell us of the system (rhetorical)? It's broken. When a car is broken, with over 1/5th of the parts malfunctioning.... time to drag it off to the wrecking yard and find a better car. Same logic applies here.

[Garam_Masala]

40. I am having a difficult time convincing myself that

encouraging immigration of educated and skilled workers is a bad thing
for the economy of the nation. Surely I can understand anger of those
Americans whose jobs have competition from these folks. But there are less
than 1/3% of the US worker population on H1B visa's. And if that helps the
corporations stay competitive then it adds tax revenues to the treasury,
and preserves jobs of American citizens in the same corporations. So, overall
it is a good thing for the country and economy. Just my honest opinion.

And believe me, if I had lost my job to some H1B person, I would be angry also.

[ChromeFoundry]

44. Kinda like stating

Health care is only available for people that are not sick. If you get sick, you lose your health care coverage. That would benefit the health insurance company... and they pay taxes. Overall, it good to kill off the really sick ones. Then when those profits are not enough, kill off the semi-sick ones too!

I guess your argument reads more like.. you got yours, so the hell with everyone else. But if you lose yours, then you have a right to be angry. It's all about you.

[Garam_Masala]

46. You are pivoting...I want whatever is good for the whole country

not just those 1/3% of workers who lost out to H1B people.

Also, it is insane to compare getting laid off with denial of health
care where life and death could be involved. Your analogy is so
extremely bad as to be ridiculous.

[ChromeFoundry]

53. ...and comparing

a portion of workers from a narrow industry to the entire working population to get a nice low percentage is not ridiculous?

Getting laid off and losing benefits both effect quality of life issues.

How are you able read with your head buried so far up your ass?

[SOCALS]

45. When H1B

visas are used to depress wages of American workers, it is a dangerous thing. Nowadays every job is valuable and the argument that H1B are only a small share of the total workforce does not hold water. 60,000 visas is 10% of the number of jobs saved by stimulus! And you don't even have to spend any money to have them saved for Americans

[Garam_Masala]

47. Dangerous for whom? The 1/3% of workers affected by H1B or..

the corporations who are obviously benefiting from H1B?

Those corporations benefiting employ heck of a lot more people than
those laid off by H1B competition.

[SOCALS]

49. By suspending H1B visas for the duration of recession,

President could save or create an additional 10-20% of the jobs saved /created by the current stimulus bill. And he can do it a stroke of a pen. 60,000 jobs are enough for a medium size city!

[Garam_Masala]

51. Those 60,000 jobs are already in action

by the H1B visa holders.

Also there are something like 100 million workers in US, give or take a few million.

That 60,000 = 0.06% of working popultion, which is minuscule.

[SOCALS]

50. Will you be as cheerful when

you lose your job to someone on H1B? Have you ever been unemployed for several months? years?

[OhioChick]

52. Maybe they are here on an H-1B..... n/t

[DatManFromNawlins]

55. I want whoever sponsors that bill destroyed

Financially, personally, politically, I don't really care. You sponsor it, you need a lifetime of pain coming your way.