Wipro, Microsoft, Intel, Infosys get maximum H-1B visas in 2009

[ChromeFoundry]

Source: Business Week

12 Dec 2009, 0005 hrs IST, BusinessWeek

Even as job losses in the US mount, employers have stepped up the hiring of skilled workers from abroad, according to data from the US Citizenship & Immigration Services. The acceleration in recent weeks has put companies close to exhausting the 65,000 visas allotted each year for foreign hires under what's known as the H-1B program. Some 61,500 visas had been used as of Dec. 8, and the last visas are likely to be claimed within weeks. Once that happens, companies won't be able to use the program to bring in additional workers until October, the start of the government's fiscal year.

"The numbers are surprising, considering the state of the economy," says Ron Hira, associate professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology. "With 15.4 million people unemployed in the U.S., employers should be able to find qualified workers here." The H-1B program allows employers to sponsor skilled workers from overseas for up to three years, with the possibility of extending for additional years.


Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5326545.cms

[ihavenobias]

1. K & R n/t

[williesgirl]

2. FUCK all of them. Hope they go out of business when none of us can afford their shoddy services.

rec'd

[Techn0Girl]

13. And they will...

but all the execs.... ALL of them... will leave the bankrupt company with millions of dollars in stock and corporate wealth. And everyone else will go to the bread lines.

In this game of wealth transfer the upper 5% NEVER lose.

[Joanie Baloney]

3. From the same article

towards the end it also says this:

With the Obama Administration struggling to create jobs, politicians are debating whether the visa program needs fundamental change. On Nov. 19, Senators Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) introduced a bill to bar major companies that lay off U.S. workers from hiring foreign labor through H-1B and other programs. The legislation, which faces significant hurdles, would apply to companies that have cut 50 or more employees within the past year. "We have a responsibility to ensure that companies do not use the temporary guest-worker program to replace American workers with cheaper labor from overseas," says Sanders.

which will help a little (yay Bernie!) But, there are those damned "significant hurdles" again.

-JB

[Sub Atomic]

4. Those "significant hurdles" are the size of the checks that our so-called 'representatives' are

taking from these corporations.

[Arctic Dave]

6. "Hurdles", is a weasel word they can use later about they couldn't change the

the rules. It will also coincide with large checks being issued to them.

[daggahead]

5. Yet another reason to buy a Mac or load up Linux. n/t

[sharp_stick]

7. Yeah cause Apple and Linux

don't hire people from other countries.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. Apple has about 1500 H1B's in Cupertino and Austin - how are you with an abacus?

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

20. Sorry but I don't get the Linux part

:shrug:

[boppers]

51. Linux = Not Microsoft.

In linux and F/OSS our international teams of low-paid/free workers aren't contributing to massive profits of closed source US companies.

:evilgrin:

[OhioChick]

8. Color me surprised.....NOT.

Quote: "The numbers are surprising, considering the state of the economy," says Ron Hira, associate professor of public policy at Rochester Institute of Technology. "With 15.4 million people unemployed in the U.S., employers should be able to find qualified workers here."

Speaks Volumes.
Bottom line....cheap labor.

[CatholicEdHead]

11. Yep, lots of very talented IT people looking for work

[AlphaCentauri]

64. Time for that talent to be the competition of those big corporation

innovation and entrepreneurs idea could result in new business instead of being dependent on those corporation. A lesson from the 90's if you can get a job start your own business.

[girl gone mad]

9. With 10%+ unemployment?

That's fucked up.

[Techn0Girl]

12. I am an Unemployed I.T. Worker - H1B visas killed my industry and lost my job...

I can tell you so much - the bottom line is that Microsoft , Intel and HP formed a lobby in the 90's and contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to California and Federal politicians in order to :

1. Reduce overtime laws so that 10 hours a day did not count as 2 hours of overtime
2. Radicaly increase the number of H1B visas

Ten years ago I was working at Indymac as a Senior programmer. Senior programmers regularly made between 80-100K a year (15 years experience, college degree, etc). Fully 40% of our staff were H1B Indian workers making 25 an hour with NO benefits. We would drink together sometimes and they would tell me (out of the office) how they were trapped - they worked many hours of uncompensated overtime , had no benefits and made 1/3 of what I was making. Still they were doing better than in India but they could not complain because at the slightest balk their work was terminated and their work visas revoked. They were being abused and at he same time jobs , hundreds of jobs from this one company alone were being taken away from American workers.

10 years later I.T. workers are going for 11 - 15 dollars an hour in Northern California. Senior programmers with 15 years experience are lucky to get 50K and the number of H1B workers actually EXCEEDS THE NUMBER OF UNEMPLOYED AMERICAN I.T. workers.

And the big technology companies are making a fortune out of this.

I've been on unemployment for 6 months now and at one point in the last 10 years I actually was homeless for a year and a half - that from making 60-80 dollars an hour the decade before. My last job I was making 55K and the one before that, in '07, I was making 35 K.

Welcome to the New World Order - paid for by Microsoft, George Bush and don't kid yourselves - Obama and our current Democratic regieme as well.

[KamaAina]

14. And now Carly Fiorina is running for Senate

(she's the one who nearly ran HP into the ground), and eBay's Meg Whitman is going for Governor. Both are repukes, I might add. :puke:

[Deja Q]

36. And she got $21 mil as a pay for a job well done...

Oops, I mean screwing up royally and getting her worthless ass fired.

[OhioChick]

24. I'm sorry to hear of your situation....

Unfortunately, I've seen/heard it many times over. One of our members here (Azlady) trained 4 H-1B's for her job at 4 different companies because they were cheaper. The last I heard, she was still unemployed.

I do hope you find something soon. :hug:

As for this quote....I couldn't agree with you more:

"Welcome to the New World Order - paid for by Microsoft, George Bush and don't kid yourselves - Obama and our current Democratic regieme as well."

[AlphaCentauri]

65. many IT's are just overpaid

I was competing with a consultant that was making 250 dollar per hour while he was busy giving long speeches to cover his failure I was responsible to fix the stuff he couldn't fix.
With the money that particular consultant was making the company could hire 3 people to replace him but the expenses in worker comp, health insurance and other compensations prevent the owners of that company from doing it.

[The Hitman]

15. Now hold on a second...

Call me naive but they aren't doing anything illegal here. As someone fluent in immigration law, I can tell you that these companies have to file labor attestations saying that they will pay the prevailing wage or what they pay US workers, whatever is higher. The conditions have to be the same.

It is so much harder to hire an H1B than an American worker that companies often shy away. Last year, I'm pretty sure, we didn't even hit the H1B allotment -- FOR THE WHOLE YEAR. If these companies are not following through with what they are promising to do, then that's something ICE should look into instead of raiding some blue-collared folks at a farm making less than minimum wage.

If they aren't going to pay up what they say they will pay up, then the government should make them pay up. Don't hate on the H1B. There are plenty more villains out there for us to focus on in the immigration world.

[Techn0Girl]

16. OK - I'm calling you naive.

The reason they aren't doing anything illegal is that THEY SPENT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SUCCESSFULLY GET THE LAWS CHANGED.

The conditions are not the same by any means.
The made billions by crating a market where wages for Americans were lowered by 2/3s for a ten year period.

There are MORE H1B Visa workers than there are unemployed American I.T. people - that pretty much would say it all.

[The Hitman]

18. You're missing the point...

... which is common across many facets of our immigration system. I think we have one of the best immigration systems on the planet -- ON PAPER. It's not that the laws themselves are bad, but that they are not enforced. And when they are enforced, it's often "too little too late" or enforcement against the most vulnerable.

Is it wrong for the U.S. to have a program to allow non-immigrant workers with high levels of education to come here to work? Of course not, we're a melting pot, we want diversity of backgrounds and education. H1B is more than just IT workers (granted they take up the vast majority of successful petitions). We want to bring in people with a different perspective. Now, the economy sucks, so this number is indeed curious. If there is systematic abuse of this visa, then ICE should look into it. If you think you lost your job to an H1B, there are avenues you can take. Push for an audit. Microsoft et. al has to keep these records on file and see to it that their promises are followed. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences.

To sum up: Screwing american workers = bad. H1B = not bad.

[Deja Q]

37. "Screwing american workers = bad. H1B = not bad. " Few of us would disagree with that. BTW,

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/7/184312/5388

http://www.eiass.com/E-NewsOffshoring157.html
(a more interesting and more recent article - Microsoft Lies(tm) is still the best selling product that slimy company spits out.)

[Garam_Masala]

21. So why don't you blame the politicians who are corrupt

instead of venting only at the companies?

[Techn0Girl]

22. Corrupt Corporations Buy Political favors

And working class Americans get screwed

[Garam_Masala]

25. If the politicians were honest they would not be swayed by money

contributions. Vote for honest politicians and then the problem
will disappear on its own.

Go senator Bernie Sanders!

Go senator Grassley!

[OhioChick]

26. I see an I and an R......where's the D one has to ask? n/t

[Deja Q]

40. D, as in "Disappeared"?

:(

[OhioChick]

17. Is that you, Bll Gates? n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

19. K&R Solidarity with American techies.

This is sickeningly stupid. Some advocacy group should find a way to bring a class action about this stuff. Maybe moving it to the courts would be better, since Congress won't respond? There's no way I believe these H1B companies are following the law.

[Garam_Masala]

23. The problem is computer programming is easy to learn

So millions of people from lower wage countries can acquire the skills
in short order.

I have spent a lifetime in programming except my programming was only
the final step in translating a very complex theoretical and practical
solution into the language the computer can understand. I spent 90% of
my effort developing the solutions in automated manufacturing processes
and when that solution was thoroughly checked out and backed up with
experiments, and block flow diagrams were drawn, then I spent the last
10% writing the computer code which was the easiest part of the project.

I never got laid off in 35 year career because none of the programmers
walking in for jobs knew anything about computer controlled machine tools
or machining process or flame cutting process or laser cutting machines
or nesting of complex shapes for maximum material utilization.

[Techn0Girl]

27. Sorry - but that's nonsense.

1. Computer programming is not easy to learn. It's a specialized skill and takes years to begin to master.

2. Programming a manufacturing machine like a cutting tool has no relation what so ever to Computer Science.

I'm sorry but your post does not ring true to me - especially the part about thr 90 to 10 development vs coding ratio.

I don't believe that you are or ever were in I.T.

[MH1]

28. Disagree.

I am a business analyst turned into a programmer recently. Because programming is an easier job than being a business analyst. I also used to work in a manufacturing environment that used some machines similar to what Garam spoke of. Sure, the programming that he does is nothing like what I am doing now, but it is still programming. And the similarity for me is that I am relatively safe in my job despite the H1B situation because I have the business analyst skill as well. Writing code is the least stressful and complicated part of my job!

That said I would like to clarify one point: it is easy to learn to program badly. Without writing documentation. Without thoroughly considering business aspects. Yet many employers are perfectly willing to accept that low quality of work.

[Techn0Girl]

29. "It's easy to learn programming badly"

Well that's true of course. And a lot of employers are accepting low quality work.

I've rarely worked a programming position where I wasn't an analyst. Typically , my title would be Programmer/Analyst. I found that was more the case than not with others in my field.

[smitra]

31. Completely agree with this post ... programming is NOT easy

I am a college professor, teaching Computer Science, mainly programming. And CS is considered to be one of the hardest majors, mainly due to the programming classes. It is true that many have said that programming is nothing much beyond mastering an if-statement and looping constructs, and having basic math formula in mind, but that is not true. It requires the ability to take a problem description written in a 'natural language' (like English), understand its nuances well enough to create a mental model of how a contemporary digital computer will execute a step-by-step process to solve it (i.e., create the ALGORITHM ) and then map that algorithm to the 'idiosyncrasies' of various programming languages (Java, C, Lisp, etc. - all of which have slightly different syntactic and other features). Get it compiled, and then test it against various sets of test data ... and each and every one of these tests has to pass. When even one fails, start all over.

The process requires an ability to think logically ('this can't be done unless this other thing is done first'), mathematical rigor, and lots of practice. We have seen that those that drop the major say that they are doing so because they can't handle the Math and the programming ... and most of them go to the Business major.

If programming - at least programming of some quality - was so easy, nearly every software engg. textbook would not start with a description of the 'software crisis'. And David Parnas, the software engg. guru, would not have made the classic comment: 'Other products come with a warranty, software comes with a disclaimer'.

[BadgerKid]

33. As a self-taught programmer,

I thought that the major stumbling blocks for students included thinking logically and translating back and forth between human thinking and computer "thinking."

In the one and only undergraduate programming course I took, I was appointed as an in-class teaching assistant by the instructor (who himself was a graduate student). I might have majored in CS if I hadn't perceived CS to be just about the programming.

[smitra]

46. Just out of curiosity....

Were you allowed to be a teaching assistant after having taken only one semester of programming, and without presenting additional evidence of your self-taught skills? If so, then this illustrates the 'sad state' of teaching programming in many of our colleges/universities - and maybe even companies. There are few really qualified/good programmers who are teaching/training the next generation. It is really disturbing that a graduate student - and I am assuming this was not a graduate student with prior programming work experience - was the instructor of record for this course.

During the dot-com boom years, many who disliked programming gritted their teeth and went through the classes, tempted by the prospect of a guaranteed fat paycheck at the end, and stock options that would make them millionaires before they were 30. Now, nearly 10 years after the bust, enrollment in CS is less than half what it was during those years... as is well known, outsourcing is a major reason for this.

But even if outsourcing is not the primary thought in the parent/prospective student's mind as they come to check out the college, they are not excited about CS because they think it is 'just about programming', as you did. And they think that even after they find a job in the field, programming is hard, boring, takes long hours, etc. etc. Tales of how Google has a gym and a shopping center in its offices makes people think that they are expected to practically live at their workplace, grinding away at trying to make their program work.

As a result, many academics are discussing variants of the CS major that under-emphasizes programming. But the fact remains that the 'end game is always the code'. At a recent SIGCSE (Special Interest Group on CS Education) conference, a professor from Stanford who is a friend of Bill Gates reported that when Gates heard these discussions about a non-programming CS major, he asked, apparently with a puzzled frown: 'Professor, what else is there?'

[Garam_Masala]

55. I think you are on the right track...which is why most software

does not work properly. Programming is only a tool.
If you don't know what you are making, you will generate
a shoddy product no matter how well you know C+++.

Personally I found programming to be something like
playing chess. It is pretty easy to learn the rules
but to play a great game requires a lot of skill.

[Deja Q]

42. Which is sad. Colleges stress that "'good enough' is not good enough".

Should America eschew corporations, corporate welfare ("government subsidy"), and everything else? Do they deserve a damn taxpayer dime if this is how this is how the taxpayers are treated in return?

[Garam_Masala]

34. More clarification to my post above

I did not mean to give the impression that I was simply programming
the machine tool. What I was doing was to develop COMPUTER PROGRAMMING
CODE to generate automatically the instructions to the machine tools
and write them on a media which could be read by the machine tool.

My most complex computer program I developed was for engineering work.
That program had almost a million lines of computer code! The program was capable
of designing the most cost effective machine to be manufactured based
on customer requirements. The average selling price of these machines
were in the range of half a million to 10 million $USD. These were long
delivery machines like from 6 months to over a year to manufacture and ship.
My program enabled to shorten the delivery which gave us a jump on the
competition. The machines we manufactured were used by GM, Ford, Chrysler,
and a variety of appliance makers for stamping metal parts.

Again, the difficult part of developing this computer program was to accumulate
every facet of knowledge on how these machines are designed, make drawings of
huge block diagrams defining how the program would proceed and iterate for
optimum design, gather all of the design standards for inserting in to a
data base program (we used dBase). Once this job was done, I did manual test
of working through the block diagram flow charts to make sure the resulting
machine design was valid. The final step was to convert all the documented
knowledge into computer language, again using dBase software. The computer
programming job took 10% of the time spent on entire project.

[Techn0Girl]

43. On the Internet Nobody Knows You're Not A Computer Scientist ....

except of course a CIS Major...

You say ... that you "make drawings of huge block diagrams defining how the program would proceed and iterate for optimum design,". Yeah - that's called a "flowchart". Anyone ...and Buddy I mean anyone who actually was a computer programmer would have just said flowchart. But not you.

You go on my ignore list.

[Garam_Masala]

54. Not every one here is a programmer, they would not know a flow chart

from a hole in the ground. So excuse me for trying
to write so every one can understand.

[AlphaCentauri]

66. These days anyone doing java scripts call them selves programmers

I don't see anyone talking about assembler code and machine instructions

[Techn0Girl]

68. I don't see anyone talking about punch cards as well...

And there's a reason for that and if you were trained as programmer then you would know what that reason is.

[AlphaCentauri]

71. yet, the low level programmers are the ones making good money

java / VB script developers are depressing wages instead, so many of the H1 visas may go to low level programmers

[Garam_Masala]

72. The really great programs are written by people who

have in depth knowledge of their professional work.
Such as a highly skilled chess player, doctor, engineer, accountant etc.

Simply knowing how to code the computer does not result into a really
good program. Which is why a lot of programs are not worth the CD they
are stored on.

[Garam_Masala]

73. Hehe I remember what a pain in the azz was assembler code

When Fortran arrived, it was like someone turned on the light bulb
and computers suddenly were "friendly".

And how did we ever get by with 16k word RAM? That was the capacity
of our IBM 1620 mini computer. We had one program which required 25
segments to finish computations...so it was 25 punched card decks to load
each time we needed to execute that program. The results of each program
segment was punched out on cards and then fed to the next segment! It took
like an hour to run the complete program. But manual calculation required
2 or 3 days so it was all good.

For you young folks...yes we had no hard drives or floppy drives available.
It was all punched cards!

[Triana]

30. immoral. inexcusable. period. n/t

[BadgerKid]

32. Since business seems to understand only tax cuts

would it be effective to allow companies some sort of write-off if they hire Americans, since supposedly it's cheaper for these companies to hire from abroad?

[Deja Q]

39. Wasn't that discussed during campaign 2008?

Seems like a common sensical thing to do, which is reversing Bush's mentally challenged decisions...

[Deja Q]

35. I'm glad I stopped supporting Microsoft's poorly made crap.

It wasn't the best before Vista, but Vista's debacle of development was bad enough... and its aftermath.

Then everyone wonders why Americans don't bother in these fields. Take a freakin' guess.

[Garam_Masala]

41. Microsoft products suck!

I just used their "Disk Clean" program and it took for ever to run,
and after it deleted all the "unnecessar5y files", it wiped out my
desktop! No more icons, all I had a was blue screen with only Recycle Bin
icon showing up! Not only that, it messed up security settings on all my
files so I could'nt access them! And it deleted some of my data files!

I had to do several "System Restores" to get back in operation.

[Deja Q]

38. Microsoft refuses to lay off H1Bs before US workers

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/career/article.php/3808516/Microsoft-Wont-Layoff-H-1B-Before-US-Workers.htm

You're welcome, Microsoft, for supporting you all these years.



Bonus:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/7/184312/5388

http://www.eiass.com/E-NewsOffshoring157.html
(a more interesting and more recent article - Microsoft Lies(tm) is still the best selling product that slimy company spits out.)

[Techn0Girl]

44. Big Business in America ALWAYS Puts Profit Before People ....

If Microsoft (or any huge Business) could legally make a billion dollars by killing people they would.
Tobacco companies have been doing it for decades.

I have long ago come to the conclusion that Big business is inherently evil and must always be heavily regulated - and it's owners held accountable.

[treestar]

45. If the U.S. worker is not qualified, why leave the job empty?

these are legal immigrants. They're allowed in because they don't displace an American worker.

To obtain certification employers must show that there are insufficient qualified U. S. workers available and willing to perform the work at the prevailing wage paid for the occupation. The intent is to ensure that admitting foreign workers does not adversely affect job opportunities, wages and working conditions for Americans."

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/

If you just keep them out the job offer just disappears, along with any other jobs that would have been generated because the professional person is here.

The unemployment rate for professionals is 5.2%, even in this economy. Letting those jobs disappear only hurts the groups that are making the unemployment rate higher, like sales, 9% or construction, 17%.

[quakerboy]

47. At one point

I read that the way they "show" that is by submitting an affidavit that it is true. I do not know whether that is true or not, but I do know that its traditionally somewhat difficult to prove a negative. And that when there is money motivating it, companies and people get awfully good at finding technicalities.

While what you posted is the official paper version of what the program is for, I think it more than reasonable to be skeptical of whether that is the truth of what happens when it is converted to reality

[ChromeFoundry]

49. Then why aren't these applications made public?

You show me a newly hired employee at Microsoft, that received an H-1b visa in 2009, where there was an actual attempt to looked at the former employees let go in the January 2009 layoff.

Just because you post a citation from a government web site, does not mean that corporations follow the rules. It's like saying that a "Speed Limit" sign is able to stop someone from speeding. Come to think of it, when was the last time a company didn't try to work around laws to obtain short-term gains? When was the last time the US DOL was able to determine if they were getting a snow-job from a large corporation?

They are only legal if the company didn't break any laws in employing the immigrants. Neither you nor I can prove or disprove it either way, and the government has even less of a clue.

The federal law that sets up the H1B visa program is written so that Labor officials must certify them, even if there's good reason to believe that applicants don't meet statutory requirements.

[treestar]

50. The government decides whether they can get the H-1B or not

What is your last paragraph about? Are you claiming 100% corruption in the Dept. of Labor? That is it forced to approve every single application? That they never deny an application, because the case has not been proved to them?

That would be like saying they approve every single person who applies for social security disability, just because they applied and that the relevant agency does not apply the law, it just makes a giveaway to even disqualified applicants.

What you say only applies to those who employ illegals under the table. H-1bs have legal sanction. They are granted specifically because they do not hurt the labor market for citizens. That is in the law.

[OhioChick]

52. You're obsessed with gloablization and free trade...

Funny, your hero Dennis Kucinich isn't. Actually, the exact opposite. (Even with the H-1B workforce!) Still like him?

If you haven't paid attention, unemployment in the US is high. People NEED jobs NOW. But hell, who cares about them, because you have YOURS, right? Thought so, you're a tool.

Educate yourself...

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

[treestar]

56. You are obsessed with H-1Bs

This irrational hatred for a group of legal immigrants is astounding. It makes even less sense than the hatred for illegals, at least they can be said to have broken the law. The law is based on not filling jobs Americans can fill. American construction workers or American salesmen or American factory workers get zero benefit from leaving a professional level job unfilled. They can't take that job.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

60. so it's republican propaganda to say that a law is a law?

And to imply that the government might enforce it? Who knew?

[ChromeFoundry]

62. You know what I am obsessed with???

I hate most lawyers. Most think they actually doing the world a benefit by twisting the truth, or throwing up a smoke screen in an attempt to detract attention to the facts. Dilute any wrongs with deception. I've seen other posts where you have stated you worked in some capacity that had an interest in serving the corporate needs of immigration workforce. I'm not saying that you are a lawyer, you are obviously not polished enough on the facts to serve in that capacity. But the fact that you are trying to draw a parallel between a poster that is concerned about the American workforce and the fraudulent abuses of a system that benefits a corporate bottom line over any individual liberties... pretty much sums up where your meal ticket is derived from. She's right, you are a fuckin tool!

[OhioChick]

63. Well said, Chrome

:fistbump:

[OhioChick]

67. Get over yourself.....

As you've pointed out before, you're a well-paid attorney, a latte liberal, completely immune from having your job out-sourced. Your pro-globalization posts are self-serving, nothing more.

[Elwood P Dowd]

70. You are obsessed with defending the "race to the bottom".

The trade, outsourcing, and visa policies you have supported here for years are destroying millions of American families. What was it Einstein said about insanity? Wasn't it something like "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?

[AlphaCentauri]

74. Did Einstein got a VISA to enter the US legally?

Einstein was another foreigner taking a job from Americans who could come out with a relativity theory at any moment. yeah right!!

[ChromeFoundry]

53. And what is the criteria for approval???

If you have even the tiniest amount of understanding in the process, you would know it is a lottery for a rubber stamp. When the feds took a half-hearted effort at looking into the abuses of the system, just last year in the Computer Tech Fields... 25% blatantly obvious fraud. Another 40% suspect of fraud, but of course there was no additional funding to bring these to resolve.

No, I am not saying that there is 100% corruption in the Department of Labor... I am only stating that the corruption lies in the willfulness of companies to exploit the loopholes in a 100% flawed process.

If you think that you can compare social security disability to the H-1b visa process... just take a look at the penalties for being found guilty of fraud in the two different systems. The S.S. system holds individuals accountable for fraud.. what was the last company that received more than a slap on the wrist and a pittance of a fine for being found guilty of H-1b visa application fraud?

A law doesn't mean shit if it is not enforced. BTW, ask any former IBM, HP, Dell, Perot, EDS, etc... etc... that lost their job to an H-1b visa holder, in which they had to train for their old job, if this system does not hurt the labor market for citizens.

[treestar]

58. There can be fraud in any government program

In any company, for that matter. There is tax fraud and worker's compensation fraud and a lot of personal injury suits could be frauds. That is part of having government. That is a right wing argument that because they're is some fraud the whole thing should be gone - it's like invoking the welfare queen with the Cadillac.

There is nothing to prove these laws are enforced less. And as to H-1Bs, they are even limited in number (not the case with the other programs like welfare, medicaid, etc., all subject to fraud).

If they fail to pay an H-1B the prevailing wage, it is fraud, but they have at some point to prove to the government that they will and can pay it, whereas for American workers this is not the case - if you don't know how to negotiate, the company could pay you less than that.

[ChromeFoundry]

61. Welfare, Medicaid and Social Security...

are all programs providing social protections to individuals. Fraud is penalized at a personal level, namely jail time. The H-1b program benefits corporations and has no personal accountability for cases of fraud. Your comparison fails to connect.

You have the audacity to call my argument "right-wing" when you take the corporate side of every argument that negatively impacts the US workforce... you are so quick to defend NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO and GATT at every opportunity. What, isn't there a Libertarian discussion board on the internet where you would fit in better?

[Zorra]

48. Remember the Battle in Seattle?

The war is still going on.

Buy local. Buy American.

Fuck the WTO globalists. They are our enemy.

"The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. the great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . ."

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

[New Dawn]

57. The super-rich want us all to be earning the minimum wage. Or less.

[Techn0Girl]

69. I pretty much agree with your assesment