Dems scramble after warning from health insurers

[MessiahRp]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON – Insurance companies aren't playing nice any more. Their dire message that health care legislation will drive up premiums for people who already have coverage comes as a warning shot at a crucial point in the debate and threatens President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

Democrats and their allies scrambled on Monday to knock down a new industry-funded study forecasting that Senate legislation, over time, will add thousands of dollars to the cost of a typical policy. "Distorted and flawed," said White House spokeswoman Linda Douglass. "Fundamentally dishonest," said AARP's senior policy strategist, John Rother. "A hatchet job," said a spokesman for Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont.

But the health insurance industry's top lobbyist in Washington stood her ground. In a call with reporters, Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans, pointedly refused to rule out attack ads on TV featuring the study, though she said she believed the industry's concerns could be amicably addressed.

-snip-

Insurers are now raising possibilities such as higher premiums for people who postpone getting coverage, or waiting periods for those who ignore a proposed government requirement to get insurance and later have a change of heart.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul_insurers

---

As usual I suspect the spineless Washington Dems will race to do whatever the Insurance Industry wants.

Myself, I would see this threat and tell the Health Industry to fuck off as I dismantled them with regulations and a full blown Single Payer plan, jammed through with Democratic Majorities.

It's time to do this Mafia Style and kneecap these people (metaphorically speaking of course). They have some guts to think they can threaten us right now.

Pitchforks are long overdue.

Rp

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. I'm very sad. There are no brave people anymore.

Just butt-lickers. The richer the corporation, the more the throngs of suited individuals line up to lick butt.

[No Elephants]

37. They are very brave--but upon behalf of their donors, not their voters. Please see Reply # 36.

A majority of their voters want meaningful health care reform. So, it is brave of them to stand up for Big PhARMA, Big Insurers and Big health care (hospitals, nursing homes, the AMA, etc., as opposed to individual doctors and nurses and small medical practices).

[AlphaCentauri]

69. Don't expect to find bulls at the chicken farm n/t

[stuball111]

2. All the more reason to impliment full Universal Health Care ASAP n/t

[AllyCat]

19. Right! Make these criminals irrelevant!

Medicare for all!

[joeycola]

61. PLUS a million and more:-)

[Enrique]

3. I saw "scrambled" in the headline and I pictured the dems responding weakly

but then in the story it describes them reacting strongly. Even Baucus's office called it a "hatchet job".

[Art_from_Ark]

6. Apparently, the headline writer had trouble with the concept of

"What is this story mainly about?" in reading class.

But what do you expect? It's Yahoo News.

[obliviously]

9. AP!

[Art_from_Ark]

22. AP through Yahoo News

It was originally AP but I've noticed a tendency for Yahoo to post articles with such headlines on its web site. But for accuracy, yes, it's AP.

[No Elephants]

32. Both yahoo and AP loves them some Rovian shat.

[peacetalksforall]

57. Yahoo is all title and no substance. It's a right wing propaganda preview. When DUers post

something from Yahoo I don't even look at it. I really shouldn't say right wing as if I knew the lineage and connections of Yaho, but it it's really awful in swipes and ommissions. All title. All hat. No body.

[MessiahRp]

10. Frankly if Health Insurance Industry execs are threatening us and they still want to kowtow them

with Baucus' piece of shit bill, then they ARE weak because they're not fighting back and still giving everything they can to their masters.

You're responding to the wrong thing. Baucus and Dems condemned the study, they have no intention to fight back against health industry threats.

Rp

[Iowa]

11. Pfft... That isn't reacting strongly. Moving ahead with Medicare for all is reacting strongly.

[No Elephants]

33. +1

[geckosfeet]

4. Agreed. Kneecapping is too good. Legislate their rates. Period.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Threatening the well-being of the American....ummm, US !!

This is exactly why the insurance companies cannot be trusted to do the right thing.
If anything, this should underscore the dire need for healthcare reform.

We will not be threatened !!

[Iowa]

12. We wil not be threatened... but the Caspar Milquetoasts in the WH & congress will.

[No Elephants]

35. They will be threatened with loss of campaign contributions plus cushy jobs after they leave

Congress.

[The abyss]

7. Scramble away from the machine

And this is what you get

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6752439

If you didn't read it before - read it now.

[Zodiak]

8. These industries KILL people! And now they threaten the American people?

Man, why the hell do we even listen to their self-funded "studies" and bullshit? They are not honest brokers. As far as I am concerned, the entire fucking health insurance industry needs to be shitcanned. They kill people and ruin lives for profit for God's sakes!

[BadgerKid]

13. Industry can/will raise rates either way; Dems "blamable" either way.

Dems should stick it to the corporations while they can.

[AllyCat]

21. That's what I thought BadgerKid! Didn't see your post and said as much downpost

What on earth is the difference? Offer up a few extra policies for the poor in Baucus' weak little bill and pay more in 5 years. Or offer nothing except more of the same and pay more in 5 years.

The insurance companies should be THRILLED they are getting this huge windfall from Baucus' bill. Instead, they are fighting it so that more teeth are put into it to make sure the poor and everyone else pay them EXTRA. That's what I think this is about. They are going for the whole kit-n-kaboodle and want to make sure they get everything they want come to them.

[shadowknows69]

14. There aren't enough cuss words in my vocabulary to describe my hate for these fuckers.

[yodermon]

15. ERGO, PUBLIC OPTION.

Cheeze. Easy.

[No Elephants]

64. Nope. ERGO, single payer. If you are talking costs, that is the way to go, not

co-ops, which work only under very limited circumstances. Not trigger, which is never pulled. And not some watered down public option in name only that still leaves millions upon millions of Americans to die or go bankrupt.

[yodermon]

77. well I agree, but single payer would (will) fail outright in the senate.

It won't pass cloture, and won't find 50 Dems to support it.

(This actually *will* happen, provided Pelosi makes good on her promise to send HR676 for up/down vote in on the house floor. Hell it probably won't even pass the House).

[liberal N proud]

16. They aren't playing nice any more?

When did they ever play nice?

They won't even pay for the KY we will need while they screw us.

[DCKit]

17. I found it interesting that the ins co's answer to higher premiums is mandatory buy-ins.

As in "We won't have to raise existing rates if we can make the same amount of money from denying payment to everyone."

Thing is, I don't trust 'em either way. Medicare 4 All, and the corporate middlemen can take a flying leap from the nearest corner office window.

[Kablooie]

18. It's basically blackmail. If the Dems give in to this I think I'll leave the party.

[No Elephants]

67. Blackmail? Or kabuki? Please see Reply ##s 36 and 63,

[AllyCat]

20. Get a clue spineless Dems: premiums will go up NO MATTER WHAT!

they will raise premiums like they always do. These figures appear to be nothing new. Don't cave to these fear tactics and put these scumballs out of business!!!

[No Elephants]

34. The insurers' study says rates will go up 79% if they get what they want and 110% if they don't.

So, according to their study, we're screwn either way.

[forum slut]

45. At that rate, I think I'll have to just pay the fines.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

46. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[forum slut]

48. Thank you so much

:hi:

[No Elephants]

65. That's why the insurers want those who don't obey the mandates to go to jail, instead of

"merely" getting fined.

Welcome.

[AllyCat]

73. Debtors prison! Yeah. All hail our corporate masters!

[BadgerKid]

76. Yep.

I opined the same thing yesterday.

[New Dawn]

23. Forcing people to buy a product from a private company is fascist economics.

[Vidar]

24. It's time to abolish corporate personhood & start charging manslaughter

when the insurers' shenanigans cost lives.

[xchrom]

25. can't do that with the robrts court.

oh congress could pass a law -- but --

[Vidar]

83. Hell of a big "but" isn't it?

[earcandle]

26. Up to NBp news page with ya! Thanks for the post. I love the after thoughts!

[ProudDad]

27. Karen Ignagni is one of the most evil persons on Earth (n/t)

[Altoid_Cyclist]

43. Without a doubt, she's headed towards the "Evil Hall of Shame".

I have a feeling that she will make a guest appearance on "V" since the show's characters so closely resemble her and her kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(The_Original_Miniseries)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7ZckZ-8naz0/R-A9qleGARI/AAAAAAAAA70/4zZN0we-NWs/s400/V+the+series.jpg

[ProudDad]

28. Let's see if I've got this straight

The health insurance mafia says that health insurance premiums will go up if the Democrats actually do anything about fixing health care in this country.

Gee, what a fucking surprise...

[No Elephants]

66. Nope. Their study says it will go up either way. Please see Reply ##s 63 and 36.

[ProudDad]

79. You missed the point of my sarcastic post

I know it will go up either way if we allow the for-profit leeches to continue to control health care in this country.

My post was meant to point out that THEY ARE IN CONTROL of prices/costs...

And they should be eliminated...

HR676/The Weiner Amendment would take care of this...

[depakid]

29. Simple solution to that-

Public option that kicks in July 1, 2010.

[ProudDad]

78. Simpler solution

HR676 or the Weiner Amendment...

Viola! No for profit health insurance leeches any more!

[sabrina 1]

30. Nothing makes the case for Single Payer now, more than

those threats. They have some nerve threatening anyone when it's more than clear that all they are are very costly middle-men who are no more needed or qualified, considering their record so far, to provide health-care for the American people.

I hope Democrats will threaten them with extinction. I can't think of any reason not to at this point.

[Babyserendip]

31. You are absolutely right.......pitchforks and true disruption is the way to go.

.....without the threat of violence from the Left.....honestly they have no means to push through their goals.

That is beauty if u will...of the right.....they always back things up with the threat (and sometimes the action) of violence.....now in a normal non-political setting....that would be highly uncouth.....but this is politics.

In Europe....Where the left 90% of the people...they always back things up when need be.....whether it be France, Germany, UK or Poland....the people take to the streets and they cause hell with violence gallor.....there is a reason the left gets what it wants in Europe and it has to do with teh role of violence in politics.

If you notice...every since the left in the US had no V card....their power has been soft ever since.

[No Elephants]

36. Could this be kabuki theater? Now, will it seem courageous if Democrats fight FOR the Baucus bill?

But one thing is certain: The American health care system is set to get a lobotomy and diverse special interests are spending big bucks to make sure they're in the surgery room when it happens."

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/06/diagnosis-reform.html#

Good luck stopping this with something like campaign finance reform. The Republican appointed Justices of the SCOTUS are about to re-affirm that money = speech and corporations = people. BUT why do WE keep re-electing these people? And when are we going to fund a citizens group that actually lobbies for us and our country on these issues? Something above reproach, like the Consumers Union, but instead of representing consumers, it would represent the best interests of consumers.







The health insurance industry has have given members of the Senate Finance Committee alone--Republicans AND Democrats--almost $50 million dollars in campaign contributions. That does not include what they get from Big PHARMA, hospitals, nursing homes, etc. Our health care costs--and all our costs--would go down some just if Republicans and Democrats were not on the take all the time.

For Baucus, fully one fourth of all his campaign contributions comes from the health insurers.


"$8,351,858 – that’s all it really took to buy a Senate Finance Committee that failed to pass a health insurance reform bill that would offer a choice to the current stranglehold that the powerful health insurance industry has on consumers today. Sen. Max “$3,882,881″ Baucus put forward a bill that would not offer a public option, instead providing huge subsidies to a bunch of crooks without any control over the prices they charge consumers. 65% of the overall electorate want some kind of public option. Democrats in some States are already moving to find an alternative to the frauds who went against their wishes. Every member of this committee who voted for the status quo should be sent home with no medical insurance and no pension."

http://www.buzzfeed.com/vernag/health-insurers-buy-key-senate-finance-committee-m-ijs

See also:

"Starting in the 2008 election cycle, the health sector has given more money to Democrats--who had seized control of Congress in 2006--than to Republicans, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. This was the first time since the 1992 election cycle, right before the Clinton administration's failed health care reform attempt, that the health sector made Democrats its financial darlings.

In the 2008 election cycle, the sector gave $90.7 million, or 54 percent of the total, to Democratic candidates and party committees, compared to $76.6 million to Republicans. That difference is even more pronounced in the first three months of 2009, when Democrats collected 60 percent of the total $5.4 million in contributions*. Obama, who made health care reform a large part of his presidential election platform, brought in $18.8 million from the health care sector in the 2008 election cycle--far more than any other presidential hopeful. Money follows power as the industries ride the tides of Obama-styled change.

Health providers, insurers and pharmaceutical companies have taken multiple approaches to winning over the federal lawmakers shaping the legislation. The health sector boosted its campaign contributions compared to the last presidential cycle, to $167.7 million in 2008 from $123.7 million in 2004. The various health industries have also steadily increased their lobbying efforts, from $448.1 million in 2007 to $484.4 million in 2008. So far this year, the sector has paid lobbyists $126.8 million to do its bidding on Capitol Hill. And those expenditures will only increase as the chairs of the five main committees working on health care legislation continue to iron out the details: Will the plan include a government insurance option? Will Congress mandate that all individuals, including the 47 million that are currently uninsured, purchase health insurance? And where will the money come from to pay for the reforms? The health sector--which includes some industries that are diametrically opposed to one another in their answers to these questions--eclipses all other sectors but the financial sector in lobbying spending since 1998, putting $3.4 billion into its efforts."

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/06/diagnosis-reform.html#

Open Secrets, linked above, has charts showing contributions to Congress.

[pecwae]

41. Too bad more won't pay attention to this post

and the links you provided.

[No Elephants]

60. Thanks. So far, your words are prophetic. And, watching MSNBC is a joke. They are

acting as though Democrats will be defying the insurers if they ignore this and vote for the industy written Baucus bill, or some variant thereof.

[jmowreader]

38. And how much would premiums go up if HC reform were scuttled today?

These assholes will raise premiums because it was raining on the first day of the new quarter. "Statistically, more people are injured in rainstorms. We must protect our profit margin...err, provide service to our customers...at all costs."

[No Elephants]

63. Which bill? Under the Baucus bill, per the insurance industry's own study,

rates will go up "only" 79% if they get their way about stricter penalties (jail) for the mandates and supposedly 110% if we don't jail our fellow Americans who don't transfer their wealth (such as it is) to the insurers, but only fine them.

No one has even bothered to send single payer (HR 676) to the Congressional Budget Office for study, even though the bill has about 100 co-sponsors.

[NeoConsSuck]

39. You're getting angry at the wrong people

of course the insurance industry is going to pull these scare tactics.

But when news organizations support them by misleading headlines and stories, that is a different story.

Take CNN.COM:

This morning's lead story headline is:

Premiums to soar under Senate plan, group says

Health insurance premiums for a typical American family would rise by another $4,000 by 2019 under a key Senate overhaul plan, an industry trade group said. The report raised questions about the viability of a bill drafted under the guidance of Sen. Max Baucus and set for a Senate Finance Committee vote Tuesday . The White House blasted the report as inaccurate and "self-serving."

Understand, many, if not a majority of people, don't click the link to read the entire article. They read the front page summary, form an opinion, and move on.

[Wizard777]

40. "Fundamentally dishonest" That's exactly what they are!

We should quit calling them Insurance Companies and just call them Fundamentally Dishonest Companies. All they do is run a Ponzi Scheme anyway. If only Madoff would have sold "policies" instead of "shares." He would still be a very free and wealthy man.

[tclambert]

42. This could backfire on the industry.

It is such an obvious attempt to discredit health care reform, and it is so widely known who funded it, that we will hear accusations of "swift-boating" and "tobacco company scientists" and it will be dismissed as dishonest in no time. Moreover, it will wreck the credibility of the industry. If played right, this could turn into a huge boost for health care reform.

[No Elephants]

68. The only way it backfires on the industry is if Democrats in Congress kill the Baucus bill entirely.

This flap may provide Democrats with cover to vote for the Senate Finance Committee Bill AND look as though they are standing up to the industry. Please see Replys 36 and 63.

[DallasNE]

44. The Simple Answer

Is a robust public option to introduce competition. No triggers or other gimmicks that allow the insurance companies to follow through on these threats like the gas companies were allowed to price gouge during the worst of the oil crisis. Regulation works. Capitalistic excesses have caused the current crisis and more of the same is not the answer. Get a spine and stand up to this bullying.

[No Elephants]

71. Single Payer.

[c-ville rook]

47. To paraphrase

"Billions for defense, not a cent for tribute." Thanks C. Pinckney.

Universal health care is now the required mandate to protect the citizens of the U.S.A. from these brigands. And the billions given to them and the personal mandate as payback for their election coffers need to be removed from the bill.

They just declared war on us let’s see what happens when we freeze their assets – as we would with any terrorist organization.

[Kokonoe]

49. Insurace companies will drive up premiums and have waiting periods.

Let me put on my rosy glasses again, "Fundamentally dishonest" "Distorted and flawed".

Health insurance companies would never deny coverage...HONEST.

[Vinca]

50. That they would come out with threats a couple of days before

a crucial vote makes me wish with every fiber of my being that the Democrats would suddenly drop everything, bring HR 676 to the floor and vote the fucking insurance companies right out of business.

[No Elephants]

70. If Democrats really intended to vote for HR 676, why did no one send it to the Congressional

Budget Office for cost analysis? It has (or appears to have) about 100 co-sponsors. What does it take to send a bill to the CBO?

I think we may be getting played. Again.

Please also see my Reply ##s 36 and 63,

[pattmarty]

51. I have just e mailed both my Senators and my Rep to vote for a public option............

.....................I let them know that I considered this a direct "threat" by the insurance companies, and that the ONLY that costs could be controlled is by a strong public option.

[high density]

52. The report shows they will get their money no matter what action or non-action congress takes

Whether or not congress can actually flex their muscles and fix that in the legislation remains to be seen.

[Cass]

53. This just reinforces the idea that insurance companies need to be removed

from the health care equation altogether.

These slimy insurance companies expect us to believe they wouldn't raise rates if we don't pass health care legislation? Yeah, right.

[and-justice-for-all]

54. A Warning?!!! So fucking what!!! Fuck those vile bastards!!

Let them drive it up, that would mean that the reform would have to take effect sooner than later.

Open Medicare to everyone and we would not have a problem. Some will be able to afford their 'for profit care' and would not switch to the single payer immediately.

FUCK THE FOR PROFIT MONSTERS!!!

[1monster]

55. The best reason for going single payer and getting rid of the insurance industry completely.

Why should they make a profit from other people's hardships and tragedies?

Also get rid of the profit motive in all insurances: car, home, life, etc...

[fasttense]

56. My head wont stop spinning after reading that AP article.

As if Insurance companies have no control over the premiums they charge. As if it's those nasty sick people's fault and Congress's fault that health insurance is nothing but a ponzi scheme. Premiums just magically go up despite the fact that Health Insurance corporations have been given amnesty from anti-trust laws.

The 1st sentence is a load of crap. "Not playing nice any more", really? I guess funding the tea-baggers was being nice. I guess encouraging racists, bigots to bring arms to town hall meetings is just so damn nice.

Now the AP is just another tool of the health Insurance monopoly.

[No Elephants]

72. Please see Reply # 63. (and maybe #36, too, for good measure).

[underpants]

82. Tea baggers were just an illusion of size to cover for what we all knew was going to happen

which is basically what this article points out-the insurance goons are going to pour money in to stop it

[GoddessOfGuinness]

58. Translation: "If you don't let us screw you, we're going to make it cost more for us to screw you."

Universal health care NOW.

[DeadManInc]

59. My insurance goes up every year anyways. I have to fork out more

money for shittier coverage. What is their fucking excuse for that? All I see is how much their profits are up.

[Blue_Tires]

62. god what I wouldn't give from the rest of my life for one term as senate leader...

[ooglymoogly]

74. Were they ever playing nice....they are criminal gangsters. kr nt

[SOS]

75. Corporate greed will eventually collapse the system

What is the limit on health insurance premiums?
$2,000 a month? $3,000 a month? How about $5,000?
There comes a tipping point when people and businesses can no longer pay.

The unreformed system is estimated to collapse by 2018, when "health care" expenditures reach $4.4 trillion a year.
The insurance industry saw what happened on Wall Street in 2008.
Crooks can behave with outrageous greed and malfeasance, rob every penny from the people and then scream "Bail out!"

In a few years they will come, hat in hand, to the Congress and our lackeys will instantly find $2 trillion in "emergency" bail out money.
They'll probably call it the Toxic Insurance Repurchase Program (TIRP).

[bvar22]

80. Gee.

Who could of predicted this? :shrug:

Actually, John Edwards did when he said, "If you invite them to the table, they (Health Insurance Industry) will eat all the food."---John Edwards.

"Working for Bi-Partisan Consensus"....what a fucking bad joke.

That is like saying, "We gratefully accept all the reform the Republicans are happy to give us."

What a waste of time.

[Triana]

81. WHY don't these "Dems" call this what it IS: EXTORTION - and tell AHIP to p1$$ off

then support a HUGE public option or single payer?

WHAT a bunch of cowering ninnies!

[Q3JR4]

84. All right then....

Ban private insurance outright and institute a universal public option in it's place.

No more worry from the insurance industry about premiums going up...

Q3JR4.