U.S. pledges to quash Goldstone recommendations

[garthranzz]

Source: JTA

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- The Obama administration will not allow the Goldstone report recommendations on Israel's conduct in the Gaza war to reach the International Criminal Court.

A top White House official told Jewish organizational leaders in an off-the-record phone call Wednesday that the U.S. strategy was to "quickly" bring the report -- commissioned by the U.N. Human Rights Council and carried out by former South African Judge Richard Goldstone -- to its "natural conclusion" within the Human Rights Council and not to allow it to go further, Jewish participants in the call told JTA.

The official said the Obama administration's view was that the report was flawed from its conception because the mandate presumed a priori that Israel had violated war crimes and that the mandate ignored Hamas' role in prompting the war through its rocket fire into Israel.

For updates on this story, visit JTA's politics blog, Capital J.

Read more: http://blogs.jta.org/politics/

---

This is good news, on so many levels.

[IndianaGreen]

1. Once again, Amerca enables war crimes and crimes against humanity

We didn't learn anything from 9-11.

[hayu_lol]

2. I really hate to bring this up...

but the opening of this last skirmish was the firing of rockets into Israel--not the other way around.

Somebody fires at you, you sort of have to respond.

[Howardx]

5. you dont need to commit war crimes while responding.

end of story.

[WCGreen]

6. Yea but if you pen people in and block off shipments in....

What do expect them to do, bend over and ask for more?

It really is hard to say who crossed the line. Both sides are hell bent on destroying the other while putting on a great intenational face.

[WriteDown]

70. Penned in?

They're are Arab brethren right across the border who I'm sure are waiting with open arms.

[Mr Generic Other]

8. this latest skirmish did not happen in a vacuum.

one can not look at the latest conflict and state categorically that the palestinians started the event. the history of the last fifty years has to be considered when assigning blame and when searching for a solution. the palestinians have not been in a position to do much more than harass the israelis, who have had the upper hand during that whole time.

[No Elephants]

63. Since the 1930s

[DissedByBush]

83. The Muslims were rioting against the Jews in the 20s n/t

[katkat]

10. Re: I really hate to bring this up...

I hardly think that fighting back against a military occupation somehow becomes unjustified if the oppressed initiate an action. I'm sure the Danish underground initiated plenty of actions against the Nazis.

[IndianaGreen]

11. As did the Belgians against the Kaiser's armies and the Algerians

against the French.

[Chemisse]

12. Of course. If someone flicks pebbles at you

It is imperative that you blow them away by riddling them with a semi-automatic weapon.

[No Elephants]

64. And bulldoze the place where the parents, widow and kids live, whether or not anyone is still .

inside.

[fascisthunter]

80. a great justification to kill people and steal their land

blah, blah, blah, blah

[Howardx]

3. its a bit sketchy

an unnamed white house source, in an off the record call SUPPOSEDLY said this, i'll wait for something a bit more official myself rather than relying on some israelis wishful thinking.

[No Elephants]

65. Good point.

[bemildred]

4. Anonymous hearsay about some guys "off the record" opinion.

I would guess the idea of this going to the Hague has them a bit freaked out.

[ixion]

7. yeah, because it's okay for Israel to invade, occupy and attack Palestine, but

not vice-versa. :eyes: :puke:

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Israel did not invade Palestine. There simply was no such entity.

They invaded the Gaza. Before they captured Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian, and Lebanese territories in a war with those states.

[IndianaGreen]

17. IOW, Palestinians are less than human in your world view

They don't exist, so when they are incinerated by US-made phosphorus shells fired on them by Israeli artillery, no one died. Can't kill someone that doesn't exist.

[Ozymanithrax]

19. Don't pretend that you know my world view.

And don't foist one off on me. I maintain that both sides have comitted warcrimes and both sides should pay the price. Peace will not be achieved in this region by taking sides.

There was no entity known as Palstine. There are people who call themselves Palestinians, but they have no country at this time. Before the 68 war they were in Egyptian or Jordanian controled territory. Before that,it was British Mandate and they were British Citizens or residents. Before that, part of Turkey. The real crime is that there has not been a two state solution imposed to allow these people the right to determine their own future.

[No Elephants]

68. Iraq did not cease to be Iraq because America occupied Iraq. Nor did British

occupation of Palestine cause Palestine to cease to exist, regardless of what it that land, culture, etc. was called during the occupation. Nor had there been a near complete rout and diaspora of the Palestinians from that land, as there had been of the Jewish people in the 1st century C.E.

The inescapable reality, though, reality is that, in the 1930's, there was NO ISRAEL and no country or land there, regardless of name, that belonged to the Jewish people, yet the Palestinian people and their identifiable culture, music, cuisines, etc. had inhabited the land continuously from Biblical times, regardless of what other country occupied and/or re-named the land.


I fully believe in Israel's right to exist, but your arguments are memes, and fairly meaningless ones at that.

[WriteDown]

69. Before 1492....

We Native American's "ruled" the United States. Its amazing how much less attention we get than the Palestinians. Maybe we need to lob a few rockets into your homes and see how you react.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

75. I didn't know there was a country

called British Mandate, wow, one learns something new every day.

[ixion]

22. your argument is semantic, but point taken

nt

[DissedByBush]

73. Let's see if I have the timeline right

Jews are promised a large contiguous area in their historical homeland.

UN creates Israel giving it a few patches of land in the area.

Neighboring Arab nations invade Israel hoping to destroy it.

Israel fights back and gains some land in the process.

The Arabs attack again and Israel gains more land fighting back.

Now the Arabs complain that Israel occupies their land.

Personally, I have to say too bad, so sad. Don't attack if you can't deal with the consequences of defeat.

This would not be happening had the Arabs accepted the original partitioning. They'd still have their large Arab-governed areas in Palestine.

[ixion]

74. uh, yeah, riiight...

have some more Kool-Aid ® :eyes:

[DissedByBush]

76. Do you dispute any of those facts?

Or do you just dismiss facts that don't support your hatred of Israel?

[ixion]

77. ...facts

:rofl:

[DissedByBush]

84. Nasty things, facts

They get in the way of a good Jew hating.

[MasonJar]

9. And why should we even have a say in this? And why should we support

the disappearance of the report? If it is flawed then, let the flaws be revealed in an honest debate.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. One of the most intelligent things said here.

Send the whole report. Try Hamas and Israel.

But, seriously, we have a say because being a permanent member of the security council we have veto power.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. Once again America enables Hamas to commit war crimes with impunity...

Finally, there is a clear decision that the use of rockets and mortars against civilians is a crime against humanity.

I think the best thing would have been to allow the International Court to try Hamas and Israel. If found guilty, lock up the perpetrators of war crimes in the same cell and let them live with each other. Once in a cell they can decide who has top bunk and who sleeps on bottom.

[garthranzz]

16. Watch this, then spout your sanctimonious hypocrisies about 'war crimes'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw&feature=PlayList&p=83056B36E53AEF2D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=47

When it comes to Israel many of you just don't know what you're talking about. As soon as Israel's mentioned, it's like some liberals get infected with a rush virus.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Good old MEMRI Zionist propaganda

You people scour the Middle East looking for the worse examples of hatred you can find. In a way, MEMRI is the flip side of Al-Qaeda's pro-hate propaganda coin.

[Howardx]

20. liberals tend to find oppression objectionable

and they tend not to support oppressive regimes.

[garthranzz]

23. except it's ok to murder Israelis and Jews and teach children suicidal mania

If you want to argue there are problems on both sides, that's one thing, but to paint Arabs as peace loving and oppressed and Israelis as oppressors, that's as stupid as it is wrong. Arabs can be full citizens of Israel, able to vote for anti-Jewish knesset members. Name one Arab/Muslim state where Jews have full citizenship? Egypt? Syria? Israel withdrew from Gaza and left behind intact, for Palestinians to use, the farms and orchards of Gush Katif. They were trashed in a day.

A little perspective and a lot less mindless Arab propaganda would help. Israel, like the U.S., has done a lot wrong. But Israel's not committed to killing every Arab or Muslim. Hamas still wants to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

Until that changes, there's no comparison and no discussion.

[Howardx]

26. this is where i post the picture...

of israeli kids writing messages on shells destined for lebanon. your move.

[IndianaGreen]

28. You make many excellent points. There is one problem...

both sides in this sad conflict are quite experts at reciting litanies of wrongdoings by the other side, and using that as an excuse for not moving forward towards a just and fair peace settlement. The key here is to marginalize the fanatics of each side. Sadly, as the election of Hamas in Gaza and of Bibi Netanyahu in Israel show, it seems that the fanatics are the ones on the driver's seat.

BTW, left unmentioned is that Saudi Arabia funds the teaching of hate in the global network of Wahhabi madrassas. Until we choke off that pipeline of hate, there is no hope whatsoever of making any inroads towards peace or against terrorism.

[No Elephants]

66. Arabs did not go into Jewish homes and farms to live, either. This crap

about who is worse and who did what to whom first is just that, crap.

It has to stop at some point and people have to get reasonable about what has a chance of working going forward, period. Until they do that, they can all take a dump in their respective head gear, as far as I am concerned.

[WriteDown]

71. The easy solution...

Is to give Gaza back to Egypt and the West Bank back to Jordan and let them establish independent states for the Palestinians like they've been demanding for years.

[fascisthunter]

82. quit the victim BS

...your anti-Arab shit is repugnant

[provis99]

21. I'll see your one video and raise you three bigoted Zionist videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP-qiFMwYVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlZ5LxqpuVg&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Uuxvd9yu0&feature=related

[bemildred]

24. Pejorative stereotypes of us "liberals" are not likely to win us over.

Maybe you ought to attempt to address our arguments, if you can.
Just saying ...

[badgervan]

60. I'm With You....

.... anytime the truth is suppressed, positive progress of any kind is set back. Raining super-hot phosphorus directly unto highly populated areas full of children is just plain evil.... no matter how many rockets are haphazardly fired by the "other side". Disgusting.

[iandhr]

25. good

[harmonicon]

27. this is good news, because..... ?

I'm really at a fuckin' loss here as to why this would be good news. Is it because courts are silly and we "don't want thim actvist jurges makin' no lawrs?" WTF?

Oh, ok - I'm kidding. I read the thread. Some people think this is good because they believe in an idea of innate racial superiority, and can't believe that someone not of that race could have the gall to think that the laws of man could ever compete with GOD's law.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. No, this is not good news. This is Obama covering W.'s war crimes.

The U.S. funded and supplied weapons for the mother of all assaults on civilians which occurred in Gaza. The goal was to piss off Muslims and encourage a fresh round of terrorist activity.

People need to realize that the crimes committed by Israel occur because someone in the US tells them commit them. They are our paid mercenaries in the middle east, entrusted with the job of harassing any oil producing country that does not kiss Standard Oil's offshoots' asses.

[rmp yellow]

30. White House will block U.N. action against Israel

Source: Politico

9-22-09
by Ben Smith

A White House official told Jewish leaders on a conference call today that the U.S. will use its veto in the U.N. Security Council, if necessary, to block the international body from acting on a report accusing Israel of war crimes in Gaza, according to two people on the call.

The National Security Council's Dan Shapiro said President Obama assured the Israeli Prime Minister yesterday of the U.S stand on the Goldstone Report to the U.N. Human Rights Council, which has been a source of major concern for the Israelis. Shapiro said the U.S. agrees with the Israeli view that the report is one-sided, and would block a referral to the International Criminal Court.

The U.S. pledge comes as the Israeli side was already declaring victory in avoiding a total freeze on settlements, and it's likely to further alienate Palestinian leaders whom the U.S. is simultaneously trying to lure to the negotiating table.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/White_House_will_block_UN_action_against_Israel.html

[mike_c]

31. protecting war crimes and apartheid, U.S. foreign policy as usual....

:puke:

[Jim Sagle]

32. Spewing lies about "apartheid," DU foreign policy as usual...

:puke:

[orpupilofnature57]

37. Heres some foreign spew for you to digest..

http://books.google.com/books?id=ark8iAkzcxwC&dq=apartheid&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=MZBVs_Qv1M&sig=DstpH9OZVkbimAPjaqMf0VoRJXQ&hl=en&ei=4MW6StvsI5mUtgfj57i4BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Jim Sagle]

42. His book ain't nuthin' but shit and neither is he.

[Ikonoklast]

51. Wow. That is a really telling statement.

It tells me you are not rational.

[Jim Sagle]

57. Excuse you? The Internet Dr. is in.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[orpupilofnature57]

34. yup ,Jimmy Carter even implies our bias toward Israel ,and he's a war criminal exiled to

Misanthrope Island.

[DissedByBush]

58. I don't trust any UN report on Israel

It will always be one-sided and biased against Israel. This whole investigation was instigated by Egypt on behalf of the African groups (mostly Muslim) and Pakistan on behalf of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. It was destined to be a hit piece from the beginning, sponsored by many countries that want to see Israel destroyed.

You see, in the UNHRC Cuba, China and Russia protect each other, and support the African and Middle-East countries in return for their support. Those countries also have the most seats. Thus the Muslim nations get to say whatever they want under the guise of the UNHRC and suppress any investigation of their own rights abuses. Their investigation of Israel is the only permanent one they have, and they use it to repeatedly condemn Israel. Sudan? North Korea? Not so important.

It's so bad that even Ban Ki-Moon complained about their "partisan posturing" and asked them to actually work on human rights abuses.

[No Elephants]

67. I don't trust any so-called facts about the whole subject. regardless of source.

But thanks for your consistency.

[Autumn]

33. Of course , maybe we should stay

out of it. Perhaps then they can work it out.

[Zoeisright]

35. Um, not likely. They've been at war for thousands of years.

[mike_c]

38. miraculous, isn't it...?

I mean, a state which has only existed since 1948 having "been at war for thousands of years."

[WriteDown]

72. Not exactly..

The Jews bought the land from the Ottoman empire long before the establishment of Israel (not 1000's of years ago of course, haha). Israel was a direct result of "The Great Arab Uprising" where they attempted to purge the Jews from the land they had purchased.

[Old Hob]

44. yeah, but now both sides have nuclear weapons or soon will

so perhaps they won't be fighting much longer

[ProudDad]

55. ????

What history are you babbling about...

Last I looked, this started in 1948 when the U.N. in its collective guilt for doing nothing about the Holocaust, gave away the Palestinian People's country to the Zionist minority.

What "thousands of years"?

If you mean the stupid 20,000 year experiment with the dominator hierarchy that's killing the planet, that war should be stopped NOW...

But it won't. Humans are too stupid to survive...and probably won't...

[Autumn]

79. Sure thousands of years

:crazy: Perhaps both Israel and Palestine would benefit from a level playing field instead of USA and Israel vs Palestine. It should be Israel vs Palestine , and we should butt the fuck out.

[ProudDad]

54. Only if the USAmerikan Empire takes away its

$3 billion a year in blood money...

[Autumn]

78. $3 billion a year could be used

for what our citizens need.

[ProSense]

36. Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on Politico

From your link:

The JTA, which broke the news, has more background on the subject.

Official ‘misspoke’ on Goldstone report

September 23, 2009

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- A White House official "misspoke" when he said the Obama administration would not allow the Goldstone report recommendations on Israel's conduct in the Gaza war to reach the International Criminal Court.

A top White House official told Jewish organizational leaders in an off-the-record phone call Wednesday that the U.S. strategy was to "quickly" bring the report -- commissioned by the U.N. Human Rights Council and carried out by former South African Judge Richard Goldstone -- to its "natural conclusion" within the Human Rights Council and not to allow it to go further, Jewish participants in the call told JTA.

Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, called JTA later to say the official "misspoke" and that administration policy on the Goldstone report remains as articulated last week by Susan Rice, the U.N. ambassador.

Rice described the UNHRC mandate as "unbalanced, one sided and basically unacceptable. We have very serious concerns about many of the recommendations in the report. We will expect and believe that the appropriate venue for this report to be considered is the Human Rights Council and that is our strong view."

more

[iandhr]

39. apartheid?

What the fuck are you people smoking why is Israel held to a higher standard then everyone else. NO one cares that the PA turned down the Tabba deal that would have created a Palestinian state No one cares when Hamas launched rocket attacks against Israel. But when Israel takes action to defend itself people say "you can't do that".

[orpupilofnature57]

41. Why is everything Israel does always" defending itself " no acts of aggression ,ha?

[iandhr]

49. Acts of agresstion

The war in Lebonon was in response to terrorist kidnapping two Israeli soldiers. The war in Gaza was in response tot YEARS of rocket attacks to which the international community never complained

[Frank Booth]

61. Yeah!

Why doesn't anyone on DU seem to understand that Israel must be allowed to protect herself by having snipers perched on rooftops shoot old women and little kids?? Or by using white phosphorous in crowded urban settings??

Bunch of naive bleeding-hearts, the lot of them.

[jasi2006]

45. If you call "swiss cheese" map cutting out all the water wells a state.

I guess the PA should accept it.

[orpupilofnature57]

50. Swiss Cheese exactly!

[ProudDad]

56. Idiotic

Israel "defending themselves" against the Gazans is like saying "the bully defended himself by kicking the shit out of the little nerd whose lunch money he just stole"...

What the brutal IDF does could hardly be called "self defense" -- unless you agree with g.w.bush that "preventive war" is a great idea...

[iandhr]

40. U.N. Human Rights Council is a joke

some of the member states are some of the worst abusers of human right

such as Egypt, China, Saudi Arabia , Cuba to name a few.

When does Saudi Arabia get to lecture ANYONE about human rights

[orpupilofnature57]

43. Why didn't you include America and Israel ?

[robo50]

46. Yeah, sounds like 1940, we would NEVER have condemned Nazi's

for killing Pols.

So what else has the USA learned since 1940?

[iandhr]

48. To help our friends

To bale out western europe threw the Marshall plan. Not ever getting into a direct conflict with the USSR.

[atreides1]

52. Not my friends.

My friends don't fire on a US Navy vessel, my friends don't spy on my country.


That would be "through" the Marshall Plan, not "threw".

We never did get into a direct conflict with the USSR, we both just used proxies.

They used North Korea, China, and Vietnam.

We used the Taliban, and most of Central America.

We both backed dictators and tyrants, and sat by as millions died.

US and USSR, opposite sides of the same coin!!!

[ezgoingrl]

47. Pathetic

eom

[ProudDad]

53. USAmerikan Empire shielding more war criminals...

to go along with the last 8 year's worth of war criminals Obama's White House is shielding...

(Big) Business as usual...

[Scurrilous]

59. Quash this.

After Goldstone / Int'l court may try S. African-born IDF officer

<snip>

"A senior prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague said Monday that he is considering opening an investigation into whether Lt. Col. David Benjamin, an Israel Defense Forces reserve officer, allowed war crimes to be committed during the IDF's three-week offensive in the Gaza Strip this winter.

The officer - a dual citizen of Israel and South Africa, where he was born - served in the Military Advocate General's international law department, which authorized which targets troops would strike before and during the operation.

Newsweek magazine released an interview Monday with ICC Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo of Argentina in which he said he is convinced his office has the authority to launch an investigation into Benjamin's actions.

The ICC has until now refrained from trying IDF officers, as it lacks authority to do so, since Israel is not a signatory to the 2002 Rome Treaty that founded the court. South Africa, however, did sign the treaty, so the ICC is authorized to indict its citizens.

Moreno-Ocampo's remarks are in line with the recommendations of a UN fact-finding commission on the Gaza war headed by South African justice Richard Goldstone. Last week, that panel urged the UN Security Council to refer both Israel and the Hamas leadership in Gaza for prosecution in the ICC unless both launched fully independent investigations into alleged war crimes by the end of this year."

more


And it looks as if your 'good news' just got better:

<snip>

UPDATE: Now the White House is saying the official "misspoke." Key grafs from the updated brief:

Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, called JTA later to say the official "misspoke" and that administration policy on the Goldstone report remains as articulated last week by Susan Rice, the U.N. ambassador.

Rice described the UNHRC mandate as "unbalanced, one sided and basically unacceptable. We have very serious concerns about many of the recommendations in the report. We will expect and believe that the appropriate venue for this report to be considered is the Human Rights Council and that is our strong view."

She did not mention what the United States would do were the report to be referred to the ICC.

http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/09/23/1008099/obama-goldstone-not-going-anywhere-and-the-story-behind-the-housing-starts

[damntexdem]

62. Gotta keep the eyes on the future.

Can't prosecute crimes that have already happened. Not even those that are currently happening -- because now is not the future.

So I guess we can only prosecute crimes that are going to happen in the future. Finally, political reality catches up to science fiction.

;-)

[fascisthunter]

81. Israel is looking like the Big Wimp of the World

hiding behind a big bully, America.