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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:16 AM
Original message
Obama White House v. CIA; Panetta Threatens to Quit
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:17 AM by RamboLiberal
Source: ABC News

A "profanity-laced screaming match" at the White House involving CIA Director Leon Panetta, and the expected release today of another damning internal investigation, has administration officials worrying about the direction of its newly-appoint intelligence team, current and former senior intelligence officials tell ABC News.com.

Amid reports that Panetta had threatened to quit just seven months after taking over at the spy agency, other insiders tell ABCNews.com that senior White House staff members are already discussing a possible shake-up of top national security officials.

"You can expect a larger than normal turnover in the next year," a senior adviser to Obama on intelligence matters told ABCNews.com.

-----

A White House spokesperson, Denis McDonough, said reports that Panetta had threatened to quit and that the White House was seeking a replacement were "inaccurate."

According to intelligence officials, Panetta erupted in a tirade last month during a meeting with a senior White House staff member. Panetta was reportedly upset over plans by Attorney General Eric Holder to open a criminal investigation of allegations that CIA officers broke the law in carrying out certain interrogation techniques that President Obama has termed "torture."



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8398902



ABC News so I take this report with a grain of salt.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out, Leon.
I'm sure your family will be glad to have you underfoot again.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. How soon with there be profanity-laced shouting matches among. . .
the economic team, so Timmy and Larry and Bobby can quit and be replaced with people with brains?



Tansy Gold, who isn't sure if she's mentioned today or not that she thinks Larry Summers is a dickwad
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Yes You Did, Over in SMW
As a comment on my post about his work habits. But that's okay. If you can't beat up on a man who hates women, who can you abuse?
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Guess I'll have to remember the
:sarcasm: thingy.

:hi:


Tansy Gold, who is beginning to wonder if Demeter is DU-stalking her. . . . ONLY KIDDING!
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Brains and ethics. nt
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Thought I read that Timmy had a screeching melt down last week...
at some meeting?
Anyone remember that?

It's a start....

Hi ya Tansy....:hi:
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. Rahm is going to get jealous...
...because MOTHERFUCKING GOD DAMN YOU STUPID SHIT SLURPING ASSHOLES ONLY RAHM FUCKING EMANUEL GETS TO FUCKING SWEAR IN THE FUCKING WHITE FUCKING HOUSE.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nominating him was one of Obama's worst selections
Hopefully he WILL quit.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I am Vainly Trying to Remember Any GOOD Selections
I'm not even going to hold my breath waiting for great ones.

the best I can come up with is "adequate", with regards to the new Supreme, and maybe Eric Holder will shape up into a man of noteworthy courage.
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dolphindance Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. HRC, Hilda Solis, Shenseki, The energy dude, and Dawn Johnsen if she ever gets in (n/t)
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 12:55 PM by dolphindance
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. I really liked Hillary until her ties with the Family & neocons came to light.
The rest seem pretty impotent.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. F**k Panetta
Let him quit. This proves that he's as amoral as the previous heads of the CIA.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Let him quit.
Indeed.

It's not like someone better isn't out there and ready to go to work. Besides, who needs such a sensitive, easily hurt head of the CIA? What a child! We need adults in charge. We've had selfish, unthinking, emotional children running (or not running) things for a long time now. I don't care if they did wear a suit instead of jeans.


It's just like the financial CEOs we bailed out. These are not the only people available to do the job. (But fire them....don't let them quit)

START THE OVERHAUL!!!!
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bermudat Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. Agree
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badgervan Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. Agreed.....
.... Panetta has always seemed like a suckup to whomever employed him. He just doesn't have the "it" to be a leader, much less a leader of a powerful intel org like the CIA. I'd love to see a Jim Webb or Brian Sweitzer in that job, but it seems like loyal paper-pushers end up there in place of anyone with balls.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well, he better resign because I just heard on the radio that Obama has authorized
the investigation and it will go forward.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hallulujah! It's about time.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:38 AM by BlueMTexpat
If this news is true, I hope that this investigation will be a meaningful and thorough one.
We owe at least that much to our Constitution and to the Rule of Law.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. America don't need no steenkin cover-up artiste
to hide the crimes and perversions of the Bush Republicon Homelanders. Tantrum-tyrant Panetta should be axed forthwith, and an honest person put in job, for a change.
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Papagoose Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't fully understand
why Panetta feel he needs to defend anything that happened at the CIA prior to his arrival.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Those Are His Homies
Public, Party and Constitution be damned!
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I think he thought he had an agreement with the WH to look forward,
not backward, as the saying goes. The report being showcased today is too damning to let that stand. Pannetta probably promised the CIA staff they'd not be in jeopardy, and now he has to backtrack. He's thinking of his own credibility in their eyes vs. what's good for the country.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Dealing with Obama is like looking at an Escher drawing
Forward is backward is forward.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Dealing with Bush was like looking at a Hieronymus Bosch painting.
Hell (circa 1490)

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. LOL! Dealing with republicans is like living in a Goya painting
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Good analogy.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. confusing to me as well....I think out of character for Leon to not want transparancy..nt
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Betcha I know who the "white house staffer" was. I'd pay money to sit and take notes....
With Leon Panetta and Rahm Emmanuel exchanging profanity-laced diatribes.

I'm sure I'd learn something.

I always enjoy watching master craftsmen do their best work.

interestedly,
Bright
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. I thought only a Sarah Palin quits
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
uh huh
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good, let them "turn over." Abolish the whole thing. Bush already gutted the CIA.

He had Porter Goss go in and fire a quarter of its top people. Why not? The organization gave Bush it's assurances that Saddam had WPMs and had connections to al-Qaeda. It missed major events, like say, the fall of the Soviet Union. Granted, it was probably what Bush wanted to hear, but it was no excuse.

Read "A Legacy of Ashes" by Tim Weiner. The CIA has been defective and incompetent from the start, and it never served its actual purpose. It has been, for the most part, a colossal failure, a threat to peace, a blot on America's reputation with the world, a tool for cynical wealthy interests and enemies of democracy, a threat to our Constitutional system, and a supporter for some of the most bloodstained, corrupt tyrants who could be bribed with the condition of preventing communism. It has had few successes.

Purportedly, its purpose was to gather information from governments abroad and make that information available to the President. It never performed that way. Instead, it was an uncontrollable, renegade agency allowed to perform covert operations all over the world, and fund them by skimming off other programs.

Meanwhile, it's agents lived like kings overseas, allowed really, to have as much funding as they wanted.

Through almost all its history, the agency was staffed and run mostly by wealthy people and the Ivy Leaguers, overwhelmingly white, who were also the people who originated it and gave it its direction. That says something bad about both the agency and the upper-class. Its graduates include some pretty bad people, like the head of Blackwater.

I say, President Obama, put its memos out and abolish it. Also fire its who are doing much its work now anyway. If we are going to have an intelligence agency, rethink it from the very start and keep it disciplined this time.




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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. All Orgs have deadwood to trim/prune ocassionaliy...esp when stuck in the past
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. It's note the "deadwood". It's the "renegades" that worry me. nt
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Yup, some old branches are tougher than others...even with a Stihl Chainsaw 24 " Bar
But...cut we must to allow for advancing/fine tuning/etc the system that we might avoid SQUALOR in favor of Better looking PARLORS...
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Quickly? Good. Bye. Next. NOW! /nt
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is so layered as to be almost impenetrable.
Right now, I'm struggling over the top layer--what is ABC trying to do by publishing this, and by coloring it this way, or what is whoever is spinning it to ABC trying to do (and what relationship they have with ABC--is ABC in accord with them? would ABC shaft them? etc)?

Really, it is so difficult for ordinary Americans--the supposed ONLY sovereigns in this land, We the People--to know what is going on in our government. We are reduced to reading entrails, guessing at signs and omens, and we can almost never penetrate down to the global corporate predators and war profiteers who are actually running things.

Here are some two's and two's that I've tried to put together, as to the matter of deep power issues in the transition from the Bush Junta to the Obama administration, that might help us interpret this article.

Leon Panetta is no civilian, in my opinion. Remember that little flurry of 'snooze' about him being 'inexperienced' and how quickly that went away? Diane Feinstein briefly piped up publicly about his 'inexperience' then quickly shut her mouth and his nomination breezed through the Senate. Don't you think Pukes would have raised a pukey pile about Obama's incompetence if he really had appointed an inexperienced civilian to head the CIA--and a "Democrat politician" at that? Total silence.

Leon Panetta has his own foreign policy school out in Monterey (near the Navy language institute, where spies are trained). He was a member of Daddy Bush's "Iraq Study Group." He's deep cover CIA. More guesses about him. He was the CIA's Clinton handler when he worked as chief of staff in the Clinton White House. He's been deep cover CIA for a long time, probably since Vietnam. He may have been handling some things at a distance for the CIA during the Bush Junta, or maybe was actually retired or on inactive status (he's rather old) when the crisis of 2005-2006 period occurred. He was brought back into active service, and put in charge of the CIA (whose personnel welcomed him with champagne corks and cheers) to repair the agency, after the Cheney/Rumsfeld vs CIA war, that had broken into the open in mid-2003, with Cheney/Rumsfeld's outing of the entire CIA WMD counter-proliferation project headed by Plame. The very first thing that Panetta said about his role as appointed head of the CIA is that "no one in the CIA is going to be prosecuted."

But the 2005-2006 crisis was even more serious than this very serious war between the Cheney/Rumsfeld and the CIA. (Another guess) Cheney/Rumsfeld were intent on nuking Iran; military brass opposed it (possibly mainly because China and/or Russia may well have come in, on Iran's side--a threatened "armageddon"); Daddy Bush opposed it and formed the ISG mainly to get Bush Jr out of the deep doodoo he was in, as to both Iran and the CIA; and the CIA also opposed it. Cheney/Rumsfeld had already fucked up long range CIA projects to subvert Iran from within. Bush Jr's government was cracking to pieces, as Bush/Rove fought Cheney/Libby over who would be the fall guy for the attack on the CIA. (I think many in the CIA had opposed invading Iraq as well, and were outraged at Rumsfeld setting up his own shop, the "Office of Special Plans" to manufacture WMD "evidence" and to get around CIA professionals.)

It all started coming to a head in 2005, which may be why Bush Jr fucked up so badly during Katrina (and appeared to be standing out there all alone, "twisting in the wind"). A year later, Rumsfeld was out, Iran was "off the table" and the Democrats won Congress (if you can really say that anybody actually 'wins' elections any more, given the new 'TRADE SECRET' code voting system, controlled by a handful of rightwing corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls--but that's a side discussion--how WE are manipulated--just as it is a side discussion, and a given, to the powers-that-be, that our will as a people is completely irrelevant).

How did Iran get "off the table"? Think about it. It happened almost simultaneously with Pelosi's strange announcement, just after the 2006 Congressional 'elections,' and a month before Rumsfeld resigned, that "impeachment is off the table." WHAT "table"?

I think cabal had formed, comprised of Daddy Bush and some of his ISG players (probably Panetta), the rebellious military brass, and other major players who were alarmed about the nuking of Iran and other signs of Cheney/Rumsfeld being totally out of control. This group made a deal with Cheney/Rumsfeld: no nuking of Iran; Rumsfeld resigns; and Cheney and Bush Jr. leave the White House peacefully when the time comes, and you will be given permanent immunity from prosecution for the following crimes: this insider group then listed all the incredible dirt they had gathered on Cheney and Rumsfeld.

The presidential candidates had to be vetted. Only those in agreement with "the deal" would be permitted anywhere near the White House. McCain might have been too close to Cheney/Rumsfeld to be trusted not to nuke Iran. He would certainly agree to immunity but would he keep the other part of the bargain? Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were both thoroughly vetted, both agreed to the immunity deal, and Obama was permitted to 'win.' (I think he really did win--on the strength of his early opposition to the Iraq War--but his mandate was significantly and fraudulently shaved, as one among many curtailments of his reformist tendencies.) Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton, in all this, is a really complex issue, but one good guess is that Bill was involved with Bush Sr in propping up Bush Jr as Bush Jr's regime disintegrated. (Remember that strange press conference that Bush Jr finally held about Katrina, with Daddy Bush and Bill Clinton standing behind him like sentries, saying nothing--as if to say, "This IS the President"? That was all about Bush/Rove vs. Cheney/Libby, the war with the CIA and the rebellion against the nuking of Iran--not really about Katrina, which was mostly just a casualty of the blowup of this government, netting some more taxpayer funded profits for Blackwater-Xe).

I won't get into Hillary Clinton here, except to say that I think it was a side-deal Obama had to make with the DLC (so as not to be Diebolded in the primaries), and the main part of it may have been giving Hillary a free hand in Latin America (where she seems to be setting up Oil War II, or is permitting others--Bushwhack holdovers--to do so).

Fast-forward to this current news item from ABC: "The Deal" was immunity for the Bush Junta principles--Bush Jr., Cheney, Rumsfeld. How far down the chain it may go is anybody's guess. Cheney has been whining lately that Libby was not included. (Bush Jr. issued no pardons in his final weeks--he had no need to, from his point of view; the "important" people were covered by "the Deal.") But "the Deal" certainly did not extend to all those who were under Cheney/Rumsfeld's command, and that includes CIA who went along with Cheney/Rumsfeld and got involved in torture. A "shouting match" between Panetta and (good guess) Rahm Emmanuel (very likely also deep cover CIA) might indicate some kind of crack in "the Deal." Cheney/Rumsfeld had all along been trying to blame their crimes and fuckups on the CIA (--"bad intelligence"--what a hoot!). So it would be an excruciating irony--and completely unfair--for the CIA to be left holding the bag, while the main perps are permitted to get away scot free. Why would Obama or Emmanuel (esp. if he is CIA) want to go after the CIA at this point?

That I can only guess at, as well. Maybe they are after some Bushwhack moles. Maybe it is a power play, to try to gain White House control of the CIA (which has operated independently of the White House since at least the end of Eisenhower's term). Maybe some political pressures are in play, requiring some "sacrificial lambs" and Emmanuel is using that to get some CIA people out, whom he doesn't like or doesn't trust. Panetta clearly came in with a guarantee of no CIA prosecutions. He said as much, publicly. Everybody comes under his umbrella. The ABC article points to a breach of some agreement. I read somewhere that ABC (like the Washington Post) has been a CIA tool for a very long time. So the leak is probably on that side--the CIA leaked an account of the meeting, to give Emmanuel a demonstration of their power? Another possibility is that this is just a malicious political leak, by some Puke mole with big ears, to try to embarrass the Obama administration or rip it to pieces. But I favor the former--that it is a control on Emmanuel. But I don't have much of a clue about what Emmanuel is trying to do. Perhaps this is about Israel. Emmanuel suspects that there are some independent thinkers at the CIA about Israel, and he wants to root them out? An investigation of the torture issue at the CIA might do that. Maybe it's not a serious effort to prosecute for torture, but instead a fishing expedition-- a set up for a purge, or counter-measures, on some other issue. I can envision Emmanuel trying to sell this to Panetta as political pressure from Congress, and Panetta not buying it and demanding that the promise to him be kept: no prosecutions, and thus no serious (and certainly no public) investigation; the CIA cannot take the blame for torture when the decision-makers have been immunized!

Our government has become quite Byzantine and impenetrable. We just get these little hints, now and again--tips the iceberg, as our ship of state lumbers through the melting polar caps, barely avoiding one catastrophe after another. We, the powerless crew, know how to correct her course and get her into less dangerous waters, but nobody is listening to us, up there on deck, where the "deciders" are playing their own social games and power games, unable to "think outside the box," and just keep plowing forward into the icy deep, where entire Mt. Everests of ice are breaking off and lying in wait. We hear the scrapes and groans and sense the ghostly hazards ahead, and maybe catch some shouts between the captain and the officers about who is in charge, or who gets to sit at the captain's table, or what's for dinner, but we have no power--or we think we have no power--to influence the general course.

You may not agree with my analysis, and I admit that it's full of guessing and theorizing. I'm open-minded about it. But I do urge you not to take a 'snooze' item like this at face value. Above all, stay alert and awake; question its facts; question its origins; question the corporate 'news' monopolies' motives in publishing/broadcasting it. Try to get at the truth, not to depress yourself, but to find the right remedies and strategies to overcome our oppression as a people and restore our rightful place in OUR government. WHY is this being published/broadcast? Did it even happen? If so, did it happen the way they paint it? What's going on at the front of the stage? What's going on behind the curtain? Think critically, and never trust a corpo/fascist 'news' monopoly.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well you are certainly asking the right questions.
Your last paragraph (quoted below) is precisely how ALL news stories should be questioned. INCLUDING the official story of 9/11 I would hasten to add!

------------
"Above all, stay alert and awake; question its facts; question its origins; question the corporate 'news' monopolies' motives in publishing/broadcasting it. Try to get at the truth, not to depress yourself, but to find the right remedies and strategies to overcome our oppression as a people and restore our rightful place in OUR government. WHY is this being published/broadcast? Did it even happen? If so, did it happen the way they paint it? What's going on at the front of the stage? What's going on behind the curtain? Think critically, and never trust a corpo/fascist 'news' monopoly."
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. +1
along w/ :tinfoilhat:

:)
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. The Bush White House = Soviet Kremlin
These little skirmishes may be enough to keep the US from ending up like the USSR
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. Good points, as always, Peace Patriot. However, I was sorry to see Panetta
appointed, sorry to see him claim the CIA does not lie to Congress and will be glad to see him go, if he goes.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I don't know. I think things are much too foggy (ahem) to take sides on this.
(They don't call it "Foggy Bottom" for nothing.)

We need to understand--really understand, deep in our minds--that we HAVE a secret government. We really do. We can't see most of what it does, and it is unaccountable to us. Given this situation, we not only have to guess at what is going on in our government--read the entrails--we also have to be cautious about its internal struggles and what they mean (for our own sakes, as individuals trying to understand our world, and as to where to put our citizen pressure, for what it's worth). For instance, when Rumfeld/Cheney declared war on the CIA and outed Plame and the entire CIA WMD counter-proliferation project, some leftists said, "so what? I hate the CIA." They didn't seem to realize that there could be something worse than the CIA--individual tyrants running US covert ops--without even the internal controls of the CIA, which had worked out limitations on its activities in response to past scandals and past Congressional pressure. Rumsfeld/Cheney were trying to break down all those controls.

I don't like the CIA either. But Rumsfeld is worse--far worse.

I think Panetta is a very important figure. I think he has been a key player in our "secret government" for a long time--with such deep cover that Diane Feinstein didn't know who he was (and shut up real fast, about his "inexperience," when she was told). So what does it mean, then, that Obama would appoint him head of the CIA? My guess is that it means two things: a) protection of Obama from Bushwhack operatives, and b) restoration of the CIA as a professional organization whose main job is to give the President good intelligence (and not to manufacture wars, and serve private tyrants, as Rumsfeld was trying to force them to do.)

Rumsfeld/Cheney tried to "crack" this organization--and, when they met resistance, they began attacking it directly (with the Plame/Brewster-Jennings outings). Who knows how far in they got? Obama needed a strong hand at the top, someone whom the loyal CIA (loyal to the US) would trust. Panetta apparently made a condition of his service in this role a general CIA immunity, my guess being that that would allow him to minimize further damage to the agency, while quietly retiring and otherwise sidelining Rumsfeld/Cheney moles. It's a secret organization. The moles are adept at scurrying into the darkness. The "light of day" might not do anything to help, and could fulfill Rumsfeld's intention of breaking the professionals--those loyal to the US--destroying the CIA's ability to provide good intelligence, and making way for another "chaos regime," post-Obama.

And a third factor is Rumsfeld's OSP and unknown Rumsfeld/Chenery ops that were run, or are still running, causing havoc in US policy around the world. How do you track down what they've done? How do you undo it, if possible? There are numerous, explosive, blowback situations everywhere, and we probably can't even guess at the half of them. We may not agree with having a secret government, and we may not agree with the objectives of our government--which seem relentlessly to be serving the interests of the rich and the corporate. But a completely out-of-control criminal organization is worse than an orderly government serving corporate interests. Far worse, even on the evidence that we can see.

So that's what I mean by too easily picking sides. Our government has become truly Byzantine. It has many dark corners, and we have almost no clue as to the struggles that have taken place there, and are still taking place, nor what they may mean to the prospects for restoring democracy in the US, and for trying to determine--or at least understand--our own fate, as individuals and as a country.

It may turn out that Panetta is a "bad actor." He's close to Daddy Bush or he wouldn't have been chosen for Daddy Bush's "Iraq Study Group" (the group that I believe assembled the coalition to oust Rumsfeld, curtail Cheney and prevent the nuking of Iran). Maybe Obama (or Emmanuel) is chafing at the deal that was made, immunizing the Bush Junta principles. Or maybe something else is going on. I don't know. And I don't think anybody but deep insiders can know, at this point, what--if anything--is going on between Panetta and Emmanuel.

Maybe Panetta AGREES that's it's time to put prosecution pressure on those in the CIA who went along with torture, etc.--and his "shouting match" with Emmanuel was just theater (covering Panetta's ass with his own people). Maybe Panetta hasn't been able to root out and disable the moles, and asked for White House/DoJ pressure, but he's still being too protective, so they argued about it.

I'm just saying be cautious, and above all be skeptical about whatever our corpo/fascist press reports.

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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Hey, Leon, if you don't like it, just leave!
We don't need no pandering to Panettas.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. I think that's too simplistic, damntexdem. Go deeper. Don't accept ABCs version of it,
for one thing. Did it even happen, for another? (They lie, you know--and spin, color and disinform.) And consider my theory that this is about an immunity deal given to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld--to stop them from nuking Iran, and to defang Cheney and oust Rumsfeld--and the CIA is not going to sit still for taking the rap on torture, when the "deciders" have been immunized! If there is some truth to ABC's account, then it appears that an agreement was broken. (Panetta agreed to repair damage to the CIA after the Cheney/Rumsfeld war on the CIA, only with guarantees of no prosecution for CIA personnel? I'm pretty sure of that.) Why Obama/Emmanuel/Holder are pursuing it, in that case, I don't know. Whether they have good or bad or mixed motives, I don't know. But I think it IS related to our government's inability to prosecute the Junta principles, and that--and a lot of other things--point to an immunity deal for the main perps.

I wouldn't line this up as Panetta, bad buy, Emmanuel, good guy. We don't know what the real matter of the argument was yet, if it occurred. And I wouldn't underestimate Panetta as a figure essential to Obama's safety, in a government, spy agencies and Pentagon still riddled with Bushwhack moles.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. Toodle-ooo Leon. Maybe you should go back to
being a Repuke. They would never hold each other to the law.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
38. Just shut the CIA down, we've got at least 17 other agencies to replace them.
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. That's not how the IC works. The different IC Agencies are not
interchangeable and their people have different skills.

NSA does SIGINT and a non-intelligence Information Assurance mission (different pots of money for the different parts of NSA's workforce).

NGA does imagery.

DIA does all-source analysis and Defense HUMINT (Human Intelligence). Their core experience is from a DoD perspective and turning National missions (notice their name doesn't start with "National") to them would be a risky scheme and just tighten DoD's control over more intelligence.

Many of the IC members are just the Intel divisions of other departments, like with State & Energy.

CIA, in addition to finished all-source intelligence, runs HUMINT No other IC element has the right people to assume that mission.

You could probably transfer the CIA's (non-intelligence) Covert Direct Action mission to the US Special Operations Command; however, certain acts done by military personnel would be more likely be an act of war than civilian covert action.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Country operated for 171 years (165 from when it was recognized) without the CIA.
It is a Cold War relic that needs to be reformed.

You assume a state of perpetual war and Imperialism. I do not.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. k i c k
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
41. Bravo! Bravo! Another excellent performance!
What a bunch of posers. I have serious doubts as to whether the "investigation" will amount to anything as serious as my last security clearance check, let alone result in charges.

Cynic that I am, I believe they're simply pretending to investigate (WHO PEED ON THAT CARPET?!). They will spend tax dollars, offer a watered-down censure of some sort to "some one or ones" (BAD DOG! BAD DOG!) and Panetta can get his knickers in a knot on TV pretending to be outraged (I'LL QUIT! I REALLY REALLY MEAN IT!).

Then everyone will bow, take a curtain call, go home & write a book. It almost doesn't matter that I can't afford Broadway tickets anymore. Washington DC should have a category in the Oscars. :patriot:
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. I believe that he should resign, not because I have anything against
Mr. Panetta, but for another reason.

Back when the CIA Director was also the Director of Central Intelligence and head of the US Intelligence Community, it may have made sense to have a politician in the job. Today, however, the IC Community is led by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) and by law (2004 IRPTA), the DNI cannot also be the director of an IC Component.

So let Mr. Panetta resign and replace him with a career Intelligence Intelligence Officer and let the politicians hold the DNI and Principal Deputy DNI positions. Keep the CIA, NSA, DIA, NGA, etc. Directors apolitical with career professionals in those jobs.

Also, where has DNI Blair been in all the CIA debates? During Mr. Panetta's confirmation, he stated unequivocally that as CIA Director, his boss would be the DNI, not the President. Good leaders either tell their subordinates to put a cork in it or back them up. Blair on the other hand seems to be AWOL these days.
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