Obama administration green lights logging in Tongass National Forest

[villager]

Source: Mother Nature News

Obama administration green lights logging in Tongass National Forest


Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack gave his personal approval for a 381-acre clear-cut in America's largest stand of temperate rain forest.
The Obama administration has approved the sale of timber from the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The 17-million acre forest is the largest stand of continuous temperate rain forest in the U.S. and contains a lot of old-growth trees. It's basically a snapshot of what the world looked like before we rolled heavy onto the scene.

The U.S. Forest Service gave the green light for the sale after approval from Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack who stated in May that he would be the final gatekeeper on all decisions to sell timber from roadless ares of the national forests.

This first sale will come after seven miles of roads are built for the 381-acre clear-cut. This makes Hulk mad. Vilsack said that the main reason he approved the sale was to provide jobs to the area. Here's a radical idea -- those loggers should get new jobs not involving cutting down old-growth trees.

Jobs should not trump mountains, nor should they trump the last great stand of old-growth temperate rain forest left in this great nation of ours. Instead of spending the millions of dollars the federal government intends to pour into road construction to clear cut the area, how about giving the loggers job buyouts so they can find a new career with some scratch in their pockets?

<snip>

Read more: http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/b...

---

Another steaming pile of environmental "fail" from the "Change" administration...

[joeybee12]

1. I am so pissed at this!

God, of all the crappy things this administration has done thus far, I think their lack of stewardship on the environment trumps them all. Wolves, polar bears, rain forests all get the shaft.

[villager]

6. They're as feckless as the Clintonistas, when it comes to "protecting" wilderness...

and not too damn much different than the "non-changers" they were allegedly replacing...

[Grinchie]

29. I'm glad to see I am not alone in identifying the root enablers.

They have given the GMO industry a green light, have subsidized Monsanto for years with Herbicide Interdiction in Columbia. They are promoting herbicide interdiction in Afghanistan for christ sakes.

They enabled CAFO's and all the horrors that it entails.

There is no change in this administration. If fact's it's much worse considering what we were led to "Believe". The DLC is fully in control, and I'm not going to go along with the Fraud anymore.

Kucinich 2012.

[FlyingSquirrel]

46. Root enablers?

Somehow that just sounds wrong in this context!

[Grinchie]

54. I'm sure you'll get it someday.

[Jackpine Radical]

113. I'm sure you'll get it someday, Grinchie.

Hint: Does clear cutting enable roots?

[Grinchie]

118. It's OK, I already know how educationally challenged some people are.

Hint, Clintonistas Enabled the takeover first or, to clarify it for you, were the "Root" of the problem.

So "Root Enablers". See how the english language works?

I could understand if the person I replied to was confused, but to have two Yokels pop in and try to diminish my statement linking Clinton policies to what we see today, well, then I see nothing more than DLC attack dog performing damage control duty.

Have at it. The more you do it, the more highly visible you become.

[Jackpine Radical]

123. I fully understood your point. I also agree with you on a serious level.

I have always viewed Clinton and the DLC as tools of the Corporate State. If there was ever a hint of actual liberalism in Bill, it was extinguished in the 1994 Gingrich Revolution, AKA Contract with on America.

As to the other matter, the other poster and I were obviously playing with "root."

[Grinchie]

168. My skin is a little thin these days. These are serious times

[FLAprogressive]

182. Obama is just continuing the Clinton tradition of triangulation and "kinder and gentler" republican

policy.

[Jackpine Radical]

237. There are certainly days when it looks that way.

Actually, I guess he's performing about as I thought he might, back in the early days of the campaign when I was backing more progressive candidates.

[DaLittle Kitty]

167. ObamaBS ObamaBS ObamaBS...Vilsack Is a POS! HOW Will We EVER Win?

[natrat]

170. it is worse-clinton banned the road building obama blows appalachian mountain tops

[mod mom]

236. Clinton did more harm by allowing this Toxic Waste Incinerator on the Ohio River

Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actor...



How The Clintons SOLD OUT OHIO (& everyone down river from the Ohio River site): New Developments-Anthrax, Radioactive Waste, & Post Katrina Waste @ The East Liverpool Incinerator

FIRST, HERE IS THE WELL RESEARCHED KOS PIECE:

Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

-snip

While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPA allowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration

Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.

This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/...


NEW RULING:

Ohio EPA Approves Permit Modification
For East Liverpool Incinerator
Ohio EPA has given final approval for Von Roll America, Inc., to receive, manage and incinerate waste not previously taken at its hazardous waste incinerator located at 1250 St. George Street in East Liverpool.

The permit modification allows the facility to receive and manage mixed infectious and hazardous waste. Typical wastes could include vaccines containing mercury; sharps containing chemotherapy drugs; growth plates and Petri dishes containing hazardous components; and tissue and organs from small lab animals preserved in ethanol or formaldehyde.

Ohio law requires that any infectious waste that also is hazardous waste be managed as hazardous waste. While the permit modification allows Von Roll to accept mixed infectious and hazardous waste, the facility will continue to be prohibited from accepting and treating waste that is only infectious.

On February 21, 2007, Ohio EPA held a public meeting in East Liverpool to discuss the draft permit modification. Comments presented at that meeting and during the public comment period were considered prior to final approval. Ohio EPA's written response to public comments is available online at:

www.epa.state.oh.us/dhwm/von_roll_america_inc.html.


The incinerator failed its March 1993 test burn.<6> Among other shortcomings, its efficiency rating for burning mercury was only 7 percent, as opposed to the required 99.99 percent.

An April 1993 inspection of the facility revealed numerous violations. For example, employees had failed to store some of the hazardous waste in closed containers and were not monitoring the underlying soil conditions, although cracks had already appeared in the incinerator's foundations.

In late June, after a three-year investigation, the Ohio attorney general issued a heavily censored report concluding that, yes, because of all the ownership changes, under state law the incinerator permit was invalid after all. Nonetheless, on August 24, the U.S. EPA ruled that although Von Roll wrongfully failed to register the 1989 ownership change, this did not invalidate the incinerator's operating permit. The EPA just fined Von Roll $64,900 for failing to modify the permit.

On July 28, an EPA whistle-blower charged two senior EPA administrators with fraud for allowing the incinerator to operate despite the decision of the Ohio attorney general. In a memo to U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, Hugh Kaufman, whose job is to act as an internal watchdog at the EPA, claimed that Deputy Administrator Robert Sussman and Region 5 Director Valdus Adamkus modified the incinerator's permit to grant it "temporary authorization" to operate, even though they knew the permit was legally invalid. He called for a criminal investigation into Sussman, Adamkus, and the "business entities" running the incinerator. (The federal Justice Department has had no comment on Kaufman's charges.)<7>

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/motherjones.ht...



Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html




Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste /


I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT WHAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS ALLOWED IS BY ANY MEANS OK! BUT CONTAMINATING A MAJOR WATER SOURCE, LAND ( 1100 feet from an elementary school) AND AIR IS FAR WORSE!

[George II]

261. What is your definitin of "protecting" wilderness? Did you bother to read the article?

[George II]

341. Obviously you're not a fan of Democrats.....

....or you just jump to conclusions spoon fed to you. Read the article, research the situation. Unless you really hate Democrats you might change your opinion.

PS - before this OP, had you even heard of "Tongass"?

[lindisfarne]

11. Call and email the White House 202-456-1111 Loggers need to be retrained, not cut down trees.

Other source of information:

http://juneauempire.com/stories/071509/loc_463956344.sh...
Pacific Log and Lumber, the Ketchikan mill, won the contract to clear-cut 4.4 million board-feet of timber - a relatively small sale - with the option of cutting another 2.4 million board-feet if it's economical. The Ketchikan-area sale is on Revillagigedo Island in an area that borders Misty Fjords National Monument.

Tongass environmental activists had been hoping Vilsack's announcement would translate to a temporary moratorium on timber road-building in roadless areas, including Orion North and three other timber sales on the Tongass. President Obama supported the roadless rule in his campaign.

Contractors have already built about a mile of the 6.9 miles that are to be built for the sale. Another 1.9 miles of old roads will be rebuilt for the 381-acre clear-cut, according to Tongass spokeswoman Erin Uloth.

Despite Waldo's hope, a spokesman higher up the chain with the U.S. Department of Agriculture in Washington, D.C., said the road-building in progress wasn't why Vilsack approved the sale. Rather, the secretary recognized how much people in the area needed the jobs and the economic boost.
...
"Just building the road will cost four times as much revenue as the Forest Service is going to get from the timber sale," said Waldo of Earthjustice.

[anonymous171]

276. Yeah, who needs wood anyways? nt

[roguevalley]

32. fuck them for this. fuck them.

[jhrobbins]

87. Have we made an ENORMOUS mistake?

[FLAprogressive]

104. It all started with Rick Warren.....

[DaLittle Kitty]

169. We Fought Tooth And Nail Against Bush To Prevent This and POS Vilsack DLCRepublicrat

Goes and GIVES AWAY THE FARM! Fuck 'em!

[FLAprogressive]

179. Instead of change we got "kinder and gentler" Bush polices.

[George II]

342. Rick Warren wants to sell the Tongass Wilderness to the logging companies???????

[sandyj999]

109. I'm Thinking We Did. : (

[FLAprogressive]

183. punked again

[George II]

We certainly did - we should have elected McCain Palin!! (chortle, grow up folks!)

[natrat]

173. grow up- what does that mean ? just accept an endless string of campaign lies

if that's what you mean by growing up, no thanks

[Name removed]

193. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

212. Now because progressives are against Bush/OBAMA logging we're "freepers" . .???

Get a grip and try to face reality --

[George II]

259. No, but the sale is for 381 acres in a forest of 17,000,000 acres!!! This is a monumental...

...overreaction.

The sale is a mere .002% (that's one in FIFTY THOUSAND!) and you people use this to say that Obama's a huge failure. I doubt many, if any, of those with the knee-jerk reaction just frothing at the mouth with the prospect of something to criticize Obama have even read the article.

[villager]

271. you really don't get the impact of roadbuilding into pristine wilderness areas, do you?

n/t

[Robb]

272. Not a Wilderness area. Not even close.

Read the Act.

[villager]

275. The Tongass!?

Jesus Christ.

Thanks for checking in...

[Robb]

277. Half of this NF is Wilderness.

This logging is not planned to take place in the Wildereness area. Words mean things.

[villager]

289. I'm glad you believe all the words coming from Washington!

And I'm glad in your world, roads in or near wilderness areas don't ever lead to exacerbated destruction, erosion, poaching, etc.

If only that were the case here!

[jhrobbins]

291. And what is the reason for building a road into a protected wilderness area anyway.

Obviously roads mean cars and cars going into a wilderness area mean something. I'm not saying I know - it just is common sense that you are not going to build a road to have it sit there.

[villager]

294. huh?

You've just made the case the rest of us are making -- the Tongass doesn't need roads!

And the Obama administration is wrong to backtrack on clearcutting, wipe out a chunk of forest, and put one there...

[jhrobbins]

338. I was agreeing with the consensus-I should have made it clearer for you

[Robb]

292. Hardly.

I just wish folks, like you, would choose their words more carefully. And, for that matter, choose the words they want to put in others' mouths more carefully...





...Just curious, I couldn't leave it alone: in your world, is it illegal to build roads near Wilderness areas?

"But it's bad!"

Duh. So support well-crafted legislation that creates buffer zones. But don't complain because the real world doesn't fit your dreams. Fix it.

[villager]

295. Are you always this snide when it comes to wilderness destruction?

for some of us, it actually represents a loss....

For you, it's just an online jousting match...

[Robb]

299. Right. Try attacking the messenger. That might work.

I've been intimately involved in the roadless initiative for years. To the point of working with legislators, my own time, for nothing. So, no, it's not just an online jousting match.

And, I should point out, I got my ass handed to me because, if I were to find it a nutshell, we tried to create "roadless" areas where there were roads already -- just like what happened here. And thanks to people, frankly, like you, we did it over and over again. And it's fucking difficult to argue an area is pristine just because we say it is, when someone can point at the road and look at you like you're an idiot.

So I know this debate. And I'm here to tell you NOTHING does the cause of actual preservation more damage than knee-jerk, uninformed teeth-gnashing like I see here.

381 acres. Sucks. But fine. Meanwhile, Salazar's put new laws on the books protecting millions of acres (that's six zeroes) of honest-to-god old-growth forest. Biggest thing to happen since, well, the freaking Wilderness Act itself.

But that thread sinks like a stone, and DUers pile on wailing about Obama here. For 381 acres and six miles of road.

If you can't figure out the difference, I can't help you. And I sure as hell won't let you off the hook for it.

[villager]

300. We can still applaud saved forest in Oregon, and be appalled at roads in the Tongass.

me? I've actually been arrested in civil disobedience over wilderness issues, so I guess I take it pretty seriously. And I'm glad for the work you've done, as well.

But once you get that *road* in there -- never mind the immorality of clearcutting old growth (which is to say, original, primeval growth, which we therefore don't get back) -- the great "slippery slope" of habitat destruction begins.

And it shouldn't be begining in the Tongass. Especially with so much "change" being promised.

[Robb]

302. I can appreciate that.

But again, it's not *beginning* in the Tongass. There are between 4,000-5,000 miles of existing roads in the Tongass already, depending upon whose map you use.

And I agree, in fact I've said elsewhere, the slippery slope argument is the most valid one I've seen mentioned. But it's a tough nut to make for Tongass, especially the non-Wilderness parts of Tongass.

I applaud your civil disobedience, and throw a smiley your way for it:

I also agree we can be appalled here. I just wish I'd hear a little applause, too, because Salazar (of all people, believe me I'm not a big fan) did some great work over there that will affect our children.

[tomg]

319. To Robb and To Villager Both

Thanks for a sharp, respectful and very illuminating discussion. You both taught me a lot. And thanks for both of your work.

[George II]

328. You said it much better that I've tried to say it here for quite some time...

Another way of making your point:

The Obama administration wants to protect millions of acres of wilderness. In order to get the support of those who are on they fence oppose it, he gives up a few acres.

So what pops up on DU "Greatest Threads"?

"Obama breaks another campaign promise, caves the DLC and corporate interests, opens forests to development and clear cutting"!!!!

Sadly, and frustratingly, people here scour the internet and news releases for headlines (HEADLINES, not even content in many cases) they can use to "prove" to themselves that Obama is not doing a good job and is breaking their self-created "promises".

[George II]

326. You're asking for a lot around here....

....read the act? I doubt many of the Obama bashers here even bothered to read the article!

[FSogol]

283. +1 n/t

[defendandprotect]

322. Do me a favor stay away from Central Park and every national park . . .

[George II]

329. Did you see Central Park 30-40 years ago????

Before the city decided to clean it up, remove some trees, weed, prune, clear growth, "DEVELOP" areas of Central Park, it was a wasteland that hardly anyone in the city ever used. Then in the late '60s - early '70s all of those things happened, and now it's a place to be proud of. But, that didn't happen without removing overgrown "wilderness", a few trees, shrubs, and wildlife.

Now there's a beautiful zoo with natural exhibits instead of half-dead animals, there's a huge bird sanctuary in the southern end - the trees, shrubs, and wildlife are flourishing more than ever and people are now going to Central Park to enjoy it.

This never would be the case if there wasn't some removal of trees and growth. And from this example, parks throughout the city underwent a similar resurrection - including the Bronx Zoo, the Botanical Gardens (Bronx and Queens) and many other parks.

[George II]

260. Did you read the article in question?

They are selling 381 of 17 MILLION acres - two thousandTHs of one percent!! That warrants this venom toward Obama and calls for the criticism of him and "an endless string of campaign lies"? When did Obama say he would NOT sell any acreage in any US forests, much less this one? What was his FORMAL position on forests such as these?

I doubt that you even know.

[DaLittle Kitty]

190. DLC Looking For Timber Company Checks!

Same Ole Shit Different Industry!

[George II]

194. We have a winner!!!!!!

For being the first to drag the DLC into this discussion, you win a 1 year paid subscription to the Drudge report, Limbaugh Letter, and unlimited access to Free Republic.

Congratulations.

Now back to DEMOCRATIC Underground!

[Moochy]

195. Sequels suck

[Le Taz Hot]

234. Uh, Sparky,

In case you haven't read the rules for awhile:

"Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, ..."

Last I heard, protecting the environment is one of those progressive ideals.

I have to say, you little onesie thinkers were always amusing to watch.

[defendandprotect]

214. DLC poisons everything it touches . . .

who would have thought that Obama was going to elope with the DLC into the White House???

[Webster Green]

202. I am grown up, and this sucks!

Clear-cutting is just wrong. There is no good reason to harvest this way. It destroys habitat.

BTW, you sound like a real fucking dick-head. Totally oblivious to the ramifications of this horrible policy.

You fucking grow up, asshole!

[George II]

340. Really nice.......

....I just wonder if you took the time to read the article and other information sources linked in the article?

Here is what Buck Lindekugel, a staff attorney for the Southeast Alaska Conservation Council, said about a court decision a few years ago allowing LIMITED timber sale from the Tongass Wilderness:

"This court decision gives the Forest Service the opportunity to design a timber sale program that truly respects multiple use on the Tongass by safeguarding those lands important for community use, recreation, fishing, hunting, and tourism from road building and logging. These lands include the Cleveland Peninsula and Gravina Island near Ketchikan, Port Houghton and Farragut Bay near Petersburg, East Kuiu and Three Mile Arm near Kake, Tenakee Inlet, and Uskh Bay, Poison Cove, and Deep Bay near Sitka,"

A little research might have avoided all this whining and gnashing of teeth that is going on in this discussion!

[defendandprotect]

210. Who here would have voted for McCain . . . are you nuts?

What people are pointing out -- and what you don't seem to want to notice --

is that corporations control both parties - and the poisonous DLC is in the White House!


Nor can we keep casting our votes and money in the same way and expect different results --

We need a Plan B --

and that doesn't mean moving to simply another corporate controlled political party!

Wake up!

[Grinchie]

225. If all three lead to the same Policy, then whats the difference?

It just comes down to a popularity contest, and substance be damned.

They are all tainted in my book, but Obama presented the least insane rhetoric, unfortunately, his actions do mesh with that image. So in reality, we were directed into a no other choice campaign.

[George II]

334. What is "Plan B"?

[George II]

162. Specifically? Why? Alternative?

[natrat]

331. Obama Approves Logging Contract For Largest US Rain Forest (VIDEO)

By Dorsey Shaw

The Obama administration has approved the sale of timber in the roadless area of the Tongass National Forest. Tongass is a 17 million acre temperate rain forest in southeast Alaska. The national forest is home to both endangered species and native Alaskan tribes and is the largest temperate rain forest in the United States.

In this video, produced by savebiogems.org, you can see both the natural beauty of the landscape and wildlife In the Tongass forest, along with the destruction that logging has caused.


http://airamerica.com/blog/2009/jul/16/obama-approves-l...


i am now evolving toward complete hatred of these whore people

[Why Syzygy]

2. Where's the commitment to climate warming?

New energy?

[glitch]

28. Investment in new nuclear power plants.

Wish I was kidding.

[caseymoz]

61. Probably getting jobs now is trumping other considerations.

[Why Syzygy]

84. Bloody ironic. No planet, who needs a job? nt

[caseymoz]

270. We're not dwindled down to "no planet" yet. nt

[humbled_opinion]

145. That is a rediculous assesment

Over a 50-year lifetime, a tree generates $31,250 worth of oxygen, provides $62,000 worth of air pollution control, recycles $37,500 worth of water, and controls $31,250 worth of soil erosion. How many trees lets assume 1000 trees per acre

Do the math Obama is authorizing the waste of roughly $1,231,200,000 per year with this idiocy there is no excuse for this and the jobs just don't equal the cost.

[caseymoz]

158. I find it reckless, too. I was only guessing at his possible motive.

I did not say I found it a good thing, I said maybe that's what he was thinking.

I've been thinking further. It might be a deal he had to strike with a Senator for that state. You could check and see if that follows. Look at where the state's Senators stand on health care. See if one of them is a "blue dog" Democrat or a Republican. That might give some indication of what's going on.

The more I think about this the more likely it seems. Obama needs every vote in the Senate he can get. What those senators are going to want right now are jobs, jobs and jobs.

I am just a bit skeptical about your figures, but that is beside the point.

[grahamhgreen]

203. A deal for what - a half-measure health care plan to save the insurance giants?!!!

[caseymoz]

267. If we end up with that. Hopefully Obama bargained hard.

A public option isn't enough.

[Jackpine Radical]

116. Whaddya mean?

Apparently they ARE committed to climate warming.

[sellitman]

3. Not the change I signed up for.

[villager]

5. Not what any of us signed up for. As usual.

n/t

[Why Syzygy]

85. Maybe we should start drafting Dean NOW. nt

[GinaMaria]

233. for a new third party?

with Dean leading the way.... I'm in. I've had enough.

[Why Syzygy]

268. Futurist,

Gerald Celente has said that a third party in 2012 will be UNBEATABLE.
We The People have fricking HAD IT!


http://www.trendsresearch.com/index.htm

[Freddie Stubbs]

248. Did the President promise to not allow any new logging?

[Why Syzygy]

266. Har Har Har!

ROFL! NO! He said, let's go tear up the planet some more just like the BUSHIES DID!

:WHOOHOO:

[Algorem]

316. that would just be "rhetoric",anyway.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

4. Shit.

[DebbieCDC]

7. More of that worthless change again

[galileoreloaded]

8. Quit complaining and tow the line already.....

Edit SP

[nosmokes]

9. Obama hasta repay his corporate masters

Get used to it

[KamaAina]

10. And Caribou Barbie only has a couple of weeks left to stick up for the poor defenseless forest!

[WriteDown]

12. Asian change. nt

[imdjh]

13. The equivalent of clearing less than a square foot in an acre.

I'm not saying that I am for this, it's hard to imagine that this wood is somehow of more use than farmed pine, but for proportion, this clear cut is less than a square foot in an acre.

[brendan120678]

18. Exactly....

381 acres out of 17 million??

That's like .00224% of the entire forest.

[Jakes Progress]

62. Yeah, just some of them.

It's like protesting the war. We only got a couple of thousand Americans killed. It's not like the war is going to depopulate the country or anything. And think of all the jobs it creates.


(Now where did I put my stash of sarcasm thingies?)

[George II]

155. I wouldn't equate a couple of thousand Americans (more like 4000+!) with some trees, Rummy!