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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:16 PM
Original message
Ridge: We were wrong to torture
Source: BBC News

America's first homeland security secretary has accepted some criticisms of the US "war on terror" made in a recent report by legal experts.

Tom Ridge told the BBC that the report's attacks on extended detention and torture were justified.

But he also said the US had been dealing with a new kind of threat.

The report the International Commission of Jurists said anti-terror measures worldwide had seriously undermined international human rights law.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7903516.stm
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. "We were wrong to torture."
No shit, Sherlock!
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. "Torture is absolutely wrong, and anti-Christian." - J. C.
Edited on Sat Feb-21-09 02:01 PM by SpiralHawk
"It was wrong to torture me 2000 years ago. And what you do unto the least of human beings now, you also do unto me. Wake up you republicon homelanders who claim to be 'christian.'"

- J.C.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow!
That is actually a huge step forward for our esteemed former DHS Secretary. Admitting the problem is truly the first step.


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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yeah, but now he should be in prison, not therapy
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. "dealing with a new kind of threat"?
It's really hard not to get HOP-y when I hear things like that. :tinfoilhat:
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There's nothing new about any of this crap..
It's been going on forever.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sometimes I think the thing that freaked Cheney out the most
was that 19 young people were willing to die in order to kill Americans. That means, they had no fear of him and his whole way of manipulating the public.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Why do I keep...
reading your posts, thinking "nailed it. exactly right!"
only to look up and see that, once again, one EFarrari is the author.
WTF, its always EFarrari!

Its a bit unnerving, actually, like looking into a mirror but its not
actually you. Someone else thinks similar thoughts, but you've never met them.

But actually, a soothsayer once explained that I really had a sister
who was taken away at birth and raised by the gypsies. I thought she
was just making stuff up, you know how soothsayers are, always looking
for a buck and a free meal... but now I wonder....

er... were you raised by gypsies, by chance?



(thanks for many insightful comments. )
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Isn't it bad luck to talk about your mother in public?
:)
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Unless she's a gypsie soothsayer, in which case its probably ok.
OMG! Mom???

no wonder. lol!

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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Go color something, Tom.
You can't backtrack your way out of what you did.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. A new kind of threat??????
Oh you mean 9/11. See again another reason to investigate 9/11. These assholes did 9/11 and put us all in their world of duck and cover. They are wrong on torture and wrong on 9/11. I wouldn't be so obsessed with 9/11 if it didn't affect us. We are reminded almost everyday about Osama and 9/11 and "terrorist". No picture taking of certain buildings, take your shoes off at the airport. All because of what? Another bible story about 9/11 and how we were somehow fooled which enabled the "terrorist" to fly planes into buildings. I know everyone doesn't agree with me and maybe they think I'm nuts. But if you really look at all the details about 9/11 maybe some will see what I am talking about. After all the lies we've been fed for the last 8 years what make this any different?
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ridge you POS, there is no 'mitigation',
you lost your way, used evil means to achieve an evil end,
and all you really accomplished was to the destruction of
your own humanity.

Now look at the pitiful and sickening thing you have become.
You are all used up. Go away. Civilization has no use for you.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. No redemption for murderers, eh.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. first, shouldn't he repent?
check out his remarks in the cited article.
did that really sound like a repentant man?

rough translation
Ridge: we probably shouldn't have done it although
they really deserved it, but we couldn't really treat these scum
like human beings, you know, and anyway there was no international
consensus that they were human or that what we were doing was torture but NOW
we have consensus that they are human and can NOW agree that what was done
in the zealous protection of America was torture, so ok that's
all cleared up now, misjudgment at most, and anyway we stopped doing it, so lets'
just all admit that some mistakes were made by America or somebody,
and everybody just try to move on from here.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That's between him and God.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Perhaps, but a man is answerable to more than his God.
Its is a grave error of some men to imagine they are not
accountable to man's law, or to society's judgment.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think it is unlikely that he will ever be held accountable in a court of law.
Redemption I don't think can be found in society's judgement. Besides in the circles that Ridge travels in, I doubt he gets much judgement.

David
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. His circle certainly lacks judgement.
This circle has burned all their worldly bridges behind them,
and have earned the revile of all the world.

So if God's judgement is what is next for them,
then let them indeed fear the Devil.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. In the end, God's judgement waits for us all my friend.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Then Ridge and friends should indeed fear it.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, and?
tick tock tick tock
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shannonmerklan Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. hmm. Ridge forgot to say whether or not he thinks prosecutions are merited
Or at least an investigation.

Why? Because his position is obviously that the torturers be pardoned. I say get to the bottom of this and jail the criminals.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Exactly
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ridge needs to ductape his house and not come out
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sometimes I don't think these...
...folks (like Ridge) listen to their own words. From the article... Mr Ridge said the US and other countries had had to deal with a new kind of enemy - "individuals who sought to kill innocent civilians, accepted a belief system that the end justified the means."


So, is he saying that the enemy believed that the end justified the means? And, therefore, to defend against them, we had to become LIKE them? In using that as a defense against what WE did (torture) we LOSE. Our country is supposed to do better than that...even John McCain said that.

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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. You know what else was wrong, Mr. Ridge?
Jacking around with the threat level "rainbow" during the 2004 elections, that was wrong.

Oh, and spying on peace activists, infiltrating their meetings... That was wrong too.

I could go on and on and on.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. Doesn't this count as an admission of guilt? In a court of law?
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. certainly a check on the moral courage in the DoJ -- ....cowardice is not just a punchline
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. What new kind of threat? Terrorists have been attacking since the Munich Olympics. Heck, the Twin
Edited on Sun Feb-22-09 12:49 PM by No Elephants
Towers themselves had been attacked in 1993. This time, at the very same address, they used planes instead of bombs. Huge difference. Riiiiight.

Some turds can rationalize ANYthing.


Not only Republicans, either.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yes, Ridge, you were wrong to torture.
Which begs the question, WHY DID YOU DO IT? Why did you destroy what was left of our reputation? Why did you create, by your actions, generations of people who will hate America like people hated Nazi Germany?

All very well and good to admit culpability now. You won't have to deal with it.

The new kind of threat isn't Al Qaida (sic) or Hamas or Hezbollah. The threat is YOU and your kind.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
32. so only now mr. empty suit color codes comes out...
this guy is so on the far side of ignorant it's scary. I'm amazed he can button his own shirt.

yet another in the tank repuke doing the best expunge the crap from his soul. sorry, it doesn't wash away that easy.

Tool.
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