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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:59 PM
Original message
NSA Spied on Journalists?
Source: Media Bistro

In an exclusive interview tonight on MSNBC's "Countdown with Keith Olbermann," former NSA analyst Russell Tice says that the agency under the Bush administration secretly collected communications data on civilians, including journalists. Following is a transcript of tonight's interview:


OLBERMANN: It has taken less than 24 hours after the Bush presidency ended for a former analyst at the National Security Agency to come forward to reveal new allegations about how this nation was spied on by its own government, exclusively here on COUNTDOWN.

Our third story tonight, Russell Tice has already stood up for truth before this evening as one source for the revelation in 2005 by the "New York Times" that President Bush was eavesdropping on American citizens without warrants. Tonight, the next chapter for Mr. Tice, a chapter he feared to reveal while George Bush occupied the Oval Office, that under the collar of fighting terrorism, the Bush administration was also targeting specific groups of Americans for surveillance, non-terrorist Americans if you will.

...

OLBERMANN: To what purpose? I mean, is there a file somewhere full of every e-mail sent by all the reporters at the "New York Times?" Is there a recording somewhere of every conversation I had with my little nephew in upstate New York? Is it like that?

TICE: If it was involved in this specific avenue of collection, it would be everything. Yes. It would be everything.



Read more: http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/television/nsa_sp...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. my word
who would have ever thought that could happen?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Deja DU: Nov 2007 Are ALL COMMUNICATIONS routed overseas to circumvent US law and the Constitution?
"ALL COMMUNICATIONS" is what my informant said too!

Deja DU: Are ALL COMMUNICATIONS routed overseas to circumvent US law and the Constitution?
Nov-09-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"I was told years ago that ALL fiber optic communication traffic was routed overseas so that "everything" was moved outside the protections of the law and Constitution and ANYTHING could be monitored. I thought the idea quite fantastic even though it came from a very reliable source that would know exactly such things. Then, the story of the fiber optic splitters hit my radar. I now see now how easily exactly that, routing ALL COMMUNICATIONS overseas, was accomplished. .... "
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. /facepalm
Ok, there is no such thing as "overseas", at least, not since the days of sailing ships.

Since *all* IP content can be relayed, replayed, or spoofed from another source, the whole concept of "sea-bound" (or "nation bound") content was rendered moot, and broken.

The internet rendered the concept of a "nation" down to, well, the nations which had strict control over everything a citizen did, and the "nationless", i.e. the rest of the internet.

The US was part of the latter.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
79. U: no such thing as "overseas" TRUE, except for reach of US laws.
It is a connected world, but the intel community operates on Indian Reservations
and outside the USA for a reason, to skirt US laws! In the legal sense,
there is an "overseas" where US law does not apply. That's the point!
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Born Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
40. just the opposite,
Some international corporations that supply secure networks set up servers in Europe to keep the bush government from spying on their business. These are perfectly legitimate and legal secure networks that handle bank transfers and other valuable information, but their customers did not like having the bush government spying on them and they believed that having the bush government keep records of secure transactions would actually make their networks less secure. It appears they were wise to protect themselves.
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
78. And Corporate Espionage.
It's right up there along side spying on journalists and political enemies.
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
69. Is it Kosher?
I wonder if some of these communiques were being rerouted through Israel? I seem recall having recently,very recently reading about a setup of that nature in Israel.

I will post link if I can locate it.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, yes they did, and I think we all knew this before
this guy came out. But, until the press actually reports on these issues, the public is not going to be aware of it, or won't believe it. I know people, personally, that don't have a grasp on the magnitude of what the bushit and co. regime did to this country (or other countries).
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why does this subject line have a question mark
of course they spied on journalists. Anyone who might give them troubles was terrorized. That's why the prosecutions need to begin tomorrow.
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The problem will be with Congress,...
How many people in congress did they spy on?
What info do they have on those with critical positions?

Me thinks, that congress has been told that they were spied on,
and has already been shown the incriminating evidence, that
has kept them in line the past 2 years. Plus the years to come.

I don't expect any impeachment, for fear that evidence on those
prosecuting will surface.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. FISA FISA FISA... That was one of the worst things ever done by any COngress!!!!!!!!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. The whole thing, or just the last part?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. retroactive immunity. which sent the 40 odd lawsuits into netherland. not sure what you are asking.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Agree . . . should have gone forward and shut anything but original FISA down . . .
But -- I think I also disagree with original FISA which is also unConstitutional ---

this is the same ole "national security" crap that they gave into with the original FISA.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
90. FISA was good. It's Bush's ignoring FISA that is horrible.
The currently applicable FISA amendment is also deplorable. The mechanism for circumventing the Fourth Amendment are too superficial. It invites cheating and surveillance in violation of citizens' rights.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I've been suggesting this as a cause for Pelosi's reticence for some time
and think back to Spitzer. THey never explained why they were "investigating" him in order to overhear his conversations, but of course, they knew he was ready to publish the sub-prime mortgage bust. Next thing you know, he's been discredited and humiliated (Yes, I know he was guilty, but I think it's important to evaluate why he was being spied on in the first place).

They have stuff on everyone. The people who spoke up (Kucinich, for example) must have been very clean. And Obama, of course. Yo uknow they were using all of the intel for partisan purposes, illegal investigations of dems, as occurred at the DoJ.

while I knew this stuff was going on, hearing the scope of it on EVERY American was a heart-stopping moment.

And still there are 23%ers claiming Bush was a great president.
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keith the dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
58. Congress people have to raise enormous amounts
of money for their campaigns. Nearly every congressperson would have many phone calls that sound as sleazy as the Illinois Governor. Our whole government has been compromised by this self-corrupting system.

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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
70. I had to come to that conclusion, too, aggiesal. After Nancy Pelosi's
grandiose "first 100 days" she promised us came to absolutely NOTHING, it was more than a little obvious that SOMETHING had changed her mind.

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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #70
82. Pelosi said that "Impeachment was off the table..." ...
before the 100 days started ticking.

In fact, I think she and the Democratic congress did a pretty well in
passing laws that they promised they would get done before the first 100 days.

Unfortunately, Impeachment was not one of those promises.

I think, someone (i.e. King George) had already gotten to her.
Remember she met with the King, at the White House, before being elected as Speaker.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. It will be interesting to monitor whether this story gets covered by other news orgs
Hopefully, this interview is just the first trickle of a tsunami of folks that have stories to tell about Smirky's illegal activities.
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FightingIrish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Does this explain why Bernie Ward is in Prison?
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They had to do that after stealing 2 elections
orchestrating 9.11 & it's lengthy cover up & lying us into Iraq.

Let the truth brigade start a-marchin
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Uh, heads up, folks.
This kind of mass data gathering, retention, and analysis can't be created, deployed, and then utilized in only a few years.

Some recent players who have made the news: Verint's been around since 1994, Narus since 1997.

SIGINT, however, as a trade? Never stopped.

Background:
Some laws got passed making it illegal for the government to directly participate in a number of clandestine activities, but those laws didn't exactly have strong enforcement on a government entity using an outside contractor, who then used somebody else entirely, who then participated in a clandestine activity... as a private, non-governmental, entity.

Think "outsourcing to Blackwater", or "extraordinary rendition", only as applied to collecting phone calls, emails, websites visited, IRC chat logs, IM chats, etc.



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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I completely agree with what you're stating, but...
if the $$$'s start with the gov't, then it doesn't matter to me if they hired some
3rd party to do the dirty work, the money tree starts with the government.

The gov't by law should not be entitled to the information gathered.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Be careful what you wish for?
Take, for example, parents who skip out on, and conceal, finances to hide from child support. Should the government be required to obtain a judge's warrant to get a peek at a credit report?

How about a massive cyber-attack (one of my specialty fields). Should the government be required to get millions of individual judge's warrants, for millions of people, to look at massive amounts of traffic, in order to mitigate the attack?

While on it's face, it looks like a fairly simple thing ("don't be evil, and it all works out"), the messiness is in the details.... especially when private companies and citizens are *not* required to have warrants to sniff their own networks, their own data, etc.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Should the government be required to obtain a judge's warrant to get a peek at a credit report?
Um....yes.

This has been another in the series Simple Answers to Really Easy Questions.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. Should the government get a warrant for all web-page views?
How about, oh, if a pissed off mom posted her ex-husband's credit report to her myspace page?

Devil, details, etc.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yes on the warrant; further, public debate on the issue is in order
As opposed to Cheney making such imperial decisions by fiat.
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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. tip of the iceberg
just wait until it is revealed they spied on political opponents. And we all know they did.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. I want to hear about their spying on the Kerry campaign
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. You tell people this and they think your crazy...


But somewhere they have digital recordings of all phone calls made and to who and who they made calls too. ..all emails sent...all websites visited...all cc charges made. etc etc etc

they key in your name and they have that info at their perusal.. the phone call you made 3 years ago to order pizza ? They got it.

Believe or not.

Why ??? BLACKMAIL, political dirty tricks, fraud, theft, insider trading, ...listening to your sex chat with your wife ...you name it.

In total blatant violation of the Constitution.


Its time to shut this down and its time for prosecutions.



K&R

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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. One more thing ....


A lot of this is outsourced ..in some case to Israel and other foreign Govs.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. You are wrong.
"somewhere they have digital recordings of all phone calls made and to who and who they made calls too. ..all emails sent...all websites visited...all cc charges made. etc etc etc

they key in your name and they have that info at their perusal.. the phone call you made 3 years ago to order pizza ? They got it."

No, they do not. It's a total waste of disk and CPU.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
91. You think they use disks and CPU's? Or is that just a figure of speech?
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trthnd4jstc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
15. I wonder if they spied on Bush and Cheney? I would guess no on Cheney. Are there Bush Tapes?
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. They only spied on non-CIA journalists.
They're the dangerous ones.
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Optical.Catalyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. The common journalist doing his job finds out information spy satellites and computer can't
Bush let the Intelligence Community get so run down, the best source of current information came from reports, not operatives.
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. May have to leave Gitomo open after all....
to make room for a crop of domestic terrorists.
Bushco.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
60. Word (nt)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. the NSA has been brought so low.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
23. Here we go. Now, this is where the rubber meets the road. This guy needs his job protected. (nt)
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
27. tell us something we don't know, tice
:eyes:
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
29. So, the post-Bush whistleblowing begins.
It's after Bush leaves, after he and Cheney and all their cronies no longer have power to destroy whistleblowers, that we'll now see things that were hidden while they were in power.

This is just the beginning, folks...
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
30. Here's what I know:
Much of this is from Open Source Intel, too. Yes, the NSA has as LOT of data. The reason they have maxed out the electrical grid in their neck of the woods is because of their SAN's and other storage mediums, holding ghod knows how much data. The problem is that for all the Crays and Thinking Machines and clusters they have there, they don't have the software to deal effectively with that data. So they store it, store some more, throw anothe big as a truck SAN on the fire and store some more. Government contractors pump cubic parsecs of smoke up their asses, telling them they can write the software to deal with this information overload, but they are just playing for the cost overruns.

Look, it is this simple: Computers are wonderful things, but they have limitations. One of their greatest limitations is that the software that turns them from an electronic doostop into a useful machine is written by humans.

And if you doubt me, remember this: The financial chaos we are dealing with right now is due to, in very large part, the software written by wonder boys, geniuses and wizards, as well as some of the best mathmeticians in the world, to play the derivatives and commodities markets and make the mortgage tranch market work. And we see where that got us.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. The current financial chaos model has been quite profitable.
The limitations are not in the computers.

It's not in the programming.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
31. Like I said, imagine the worst
with Bush. And the worst is never bad enough. These are simply regular criminals that had all the resources of the U.S. intelligence at their disposal.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. Just wait until we find out Rove was getting NSA intercepts of Kerry's communications.
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 03:40 AM by sofa king
I don't know that for a fact and likely never will, but it would explain how the Bush Administration managed to stay ahead of the Kerry campaign on every single issue in the summer of 2004.

Edit: I should add that this story squares quite nicely with rumors which appeared years ago, when someone in the White House unwisely bragged that they were getting the news before it was printed. Unfortunately, I can't scare up the article about it.
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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #32
55. Bingo!!!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. No - it explains why so many JOURNALISTS were protecting Bush and editing Kerry's campaign
heavily in their reports, to follow Rove's script. No news network broadcast Kerry's speech to Firefighters Convention where he attacked swifts and Bush for hiding behind them, even though he was the presidential candidate - think what this election would have been like if Obama's speeches hadn't been broadcast, especially his speech answering the Wright attacks.

Blackmailing journos also explains why media would not allow talk of voting machines set up for fraud...no...they were just 'glitches' easily dismissed.
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Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #57
68. Speak no evil
Speaking of voter fraud, wonder if McConnell, the now deceased GOP IT wunderkind who died in a plane crash at Christmas, had anything to do with this set-up?

Remember,he crashed and burned JUST before testifying to the feds about alleged voting fraud in Ohio 2000 and 2004 elections. It involved rerouting votes to another server in Tennessee.

That rerouting was called "Intelligent Man in the Middle."

LOTS of info at epluribusmedia.
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #57
72. Which begs the question, why didn't they use this to help McSame get elected? nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
81. An engaged DNC that worked on party infrastructure state by state - McAuliffe's didn't
Strengthening party infrastructure and more alert Dems in positions of oversight made for a much more secure election process on every level where the votes are allowed, cast and counted.

Besides, BushInc wouldn't risk getting caught for McCain.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. By the way....
Now that I think of it, both your hypothesis and my own could be true at the same time.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. I'd also add that there's no love lost between those camps.
Despite their public kiss-and-make-ups, Bush/Cheney probably wouldn't lift a finger to help McCain (and I'm talking about this kind of cloak-and-dagger help--no sane person would want their public support, and neither did McCain, who might or might not be sane), and McCain probably wouldn't lift a finger to protect 'em if he won.

I think the Bush Administration found themselves fresh out of friends starting in about 2006, and they chose Door Number Two instead: screw things up so bad that nobody has the time or resources to prosecute, and destroy as much evidence as possible on the way out.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
61. In The Words Of **$h: "Let's Roll" (nt)
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
33. Given the urgency with which the Telecoms pursued immunity, spying must have been quite extensive
For the last few years, official Washington shown the White House the deference it once extended to the late blackmail king, J Edgar Hoover

So probably not just journalists, but Senators and Representatives as well, were quietly told that if they didn't watch their step, there would be publicity consequences
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. You have no idea.
Town "dog-catcher" is in the net.

You know, in case <enemy> has them spreading anthrax.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
Big Brother in all its glory.
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kmdemqueen Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
37. nothing shocks me
We are going to find out a lot more and you know what. I don't think anything is going to shock me.

Anyway they are all jumping ship . They know Obama is going to clean house over there on 1600. They are worried. I winder what they heard if the ease dropped on K.O. MMMMMM any pizza!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
41. We need to clean out the NSA
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
44. raise your hand if you're shocked by this
no hands? thought not
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
45. They spied on "everyone"
which, by definition, includes journalists ... but that is insignificant.
After all, most of them were already in their pocket.
"Everyone" also includes Congress -- specifically, Democrats in Congress.

If I wanted to get real tinfoily, I would point out that that would include travel plans in small planes, but I'm no gonna go there...I'm just sayin'...

:shrug:
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
46. So I could file a FOIA on someone like Vitter? I mean, if he's got
nothing to hide after all.....

Seriously, not really news, but nice to see it confirmed. I wonder how many more doors are going to get opened in the next few weeks with all kinds of secrets spilling out of them
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
47. More of this will be exposed in the coming days, weeks & years
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
48. add another charge to the list
is this really news? does it surprise anyone to learn that their spying was much less about terrorism and much more about politics?
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
49. So far,
the MSM is just letting this lie there. I did a quick Google search and I saw none but online sources carrying this. The longer the MSM ignores vital news the more irrelevant they become.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
50. Wow -- Republicon Homelanders spying wholesale on Americans
How low can republicon homelanders go? Wait, forget that I asked...
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Maybe this is why the head of the NSA (Hayden)
went to lead the CIA
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
52. As if we didn't already know this.
I always assumed journalists and Democratic politicians were the number one targets. They were the Bush administration's number one enemies.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
53. Nixon did the same thing
I think the coming days will be full of a lot of these revelations.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
54. Why Olbermann is breaking this story and not the NYT?
On Wiki it says that Tice was a source for the NYT article about illegal wiretaping.

"Media reports on January 10, 2006, indicated Tice was a source of the Times leak, which revealed that, under the direction of the White House and without requisite court orders, the NSA has been intercepting international communications to and from points within the US."

If Tice was a source for the NYT story did he also tell them at that time that journalists were being targeted? If he did why didn't they report it in their original story? If Tice didn't tell them back then why did he choose to tell Olbermann now and not go through the NYT again? Did Tice go to the NYT before he spoke with Olbermann? If not, why not? If he did why didn't they report it?



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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #54
74. January 05, 2006
Christiane Amanpour Of CNN Spied Upon?


Mitchell: Do you have any information about reporters being swept up in this net?

Risen: No, I don't. It's not clear to me. That's one of the questions we'll have to look into the future. Were there abuses of this program or not? I don't know the answer to that

Mitchell: You don't have any information, for instance, that a very prominent journalist, Christiane Amanpour, might have been eavesdropped upon?

Risen: No, no I hadn't heard that.


http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/01/christian...



check this too.

http://www.americablog.com/2006/01/nbc-confirms-its-inv...

NBC has acknowledged that they have information to suggest that Bush may have spied (be spying) on CNN's Christiane Amanpour and that NBC is currently investigating that very possibility. This isn't just conjecture anymore, NBC has confirmed it.


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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
80. Because the NYT covered up the story until after the election ???
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
56. Didn't we already know this?
It's Echelon, listening in on *all* phone calls. They tapped the wire for *all* Internet communications. There's probably a NSA copy of this very post. *waves to Agent Mike* They'd use data mining to focus on the people they really wanted to spy on.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
59. But wasn't this about stopping terrorism?
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 10:12 AM by Botany
Guarnateed they spied on Kerry in 2004.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Im sure they have spied on any Dem that has ran in the primaries in 2004 and 2008
I'm sure they have spied on all of congress.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. I worked for Kerry in Ohio 2004
We had really good I.T. people and 6 firewalls on some of our computers .....
and still they were breached like nothing ...... a trace on where the breach
was comiong from went to an Island in the Pacific and then it went bye bye

I think the NSA was behind that.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #65
71. That island didn't happen to be Saipan... or maybe Guam?
In Bush-land, all paths lead to Jack Abramoff.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #65
73. Very suspicious.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #65
83. Do you remember which island that was? nt
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #65
88. wow.. your IT people should put together a documentary with other IT and OH election officials
and release an hour long video about the evidence and how it strongly appears J Kenneth Blackwell, sec of state, and the repuke hierarchy did all they could to steal the election for b*sh.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
62. Who's shocked? Anyone?
:(
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
64. In 2003-04, a friend was visiting India. He made a call to a friend back in the U.S.
and very early in the conversation one of them jokingly said:
"Aren't you worried about Bush listening in on our conversation?"
The line immediately went dead.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
66. Oh my goodness... we had NO idea!
:eyes:
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
67. If the members of Bush's administration don't go to jail..
..for this and many other crimes, then Obama has a lot for which he'll answer.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
75. Civil Lawsuits
Take Bush Gang to the cleaners and leave them in debt forever.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
76. Nice to know Mark Klein wasn't some crazy conspiracy theorist
and the bastard hid it all behind the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surve...

In gwb's world, we are ALL CITIZEN TERRORISTS!

Then gwb does whatever he can to ensure that the telecoms are protected.


July 7th, 2008
Bush: Telecom Immunity More Important Than Surveillance Powers
Deeplink by Kurt Opsahl

Today the Bush Administration released a letter threatening to veto the upcoming FISA legislation if it included the Bingaman Amendment, which puts both telecom immunity and the court cases on hold until after the Inspector General reports about the warrantless wiretapping program. If given the choice between new surveillance powers without immunity for telcos on the one hand, or surveillance under the existing law on the other, the Bush Administration said its choice was clear: keep with the existing law.

Even though the White House "strongly support(s)" the FISA bill, and contends it is necessary to provide "our intelligence professionals the tools they need to keep our Nation safe," and urges the Senate "to act as soon as it returns from its recess," the Bush Administration is willing to veto the legislation and forgo these tools unless the telecom immunity is given effect immediately.

The Administration has said "hat the failure to enact long-term FISA modernization legislation is costly and dangerous is beyond any serious dispute," contending that "t's vital that our intelligence community has the ability to learn who the terrorists are talking to, what they're saying, and what they are planning."

However, according to today's veto threat, none of this is as important as immediate immunity for the telecommunications carriers. Even if the President gets an unprecedented expansion of government surveillance power, and the bill merely delays telecom immunity until Congress has more information, this, Bush contends, is not better than continued surveillance under the current version of FISA.



And remember the FISA secret sessions? What were they really discussing? What really went on behind the closed doors?




In February 2008, the Senate passed the version of the new FISA that would allow telecom companies immunity. On March 13, 2008, the U.S. House of Representatives held a secret session to discuss related information. On March 14, the House voted 213-197 to approve a bill that would not grant telecom immunity far short of the 2/3 majority required to override a Presidential veto.<49> The Senate and House bills are compared and contrasted in a June 12, 2008 report from the Congressional Research Service.<50>

On the evening of November 11, 2008, the House of Representatives held a secret, closed door meeting to debate changes to the FISA bill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Ixpapbd7M <---Kucinich asking :wtf:


We need more sunlight and after all the dark hidey holes are exposed, what will President Obama do about it?

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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. Selective story coverage highlights media problems.
The MSM has pretty much self-destructed as far as credibility and thus newsworthiness to an audience that is increasingly repelled by its spin and lies.

Or is that a foreseen consequence of of bad information services: that there would be no widely creditable news source left eventually, and the public would have a difficult time finding out true information?

In such a truth-confused condition, don't business advertising and government propaganda thrive?
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. I believe a depression would be more likely to follow
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 05:12 PM by Uncle Joe
"In such a truth-confused condition, don't business advertising and government propaganda thrive?"

As the people lose faith in their institutions, nothing will be spared. I suspect those at the very top of corporate media totem pole, simply don't care and would rather have a greater degree of separation from their fellow human beings.

One gauge to watch, see how much play this story gets on corporate media prime time news broadcasts. I suspect, individual murders in a nation of 300 million people will garner more precious air time.


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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
87. I guess this would be news to many, but everyone on DU knew it & therefore I'm glad KO
had this whistleblower come on, and apparently will have him on again tonight according to what Keith said in the broadcast.

I want justice for the nation who was spied upon for no reason, and I want justice for the 'war' innocent who were tortured or killed.
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Sheltiemama Donating Member (892 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
89. Oh, I assume I'm on some list somewhere.
Along with many of my newsroom co-workers.
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PuppyBismark Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
92. Technically, the only way to monitor many people is to monitor everyone
When one thinks about the national communication network and all its parts, it becomes clear that all traffic has to be available to the government for them to look at the parts they want to see. Networking companies such as AT&T, Sprint, etc. cannot make the investment in equipment and systems to just give the government what they think they may want, so it dumps everything to NSA and they get to look at what they want.

Thus it is no surprise that they have everything. If you listened to Tice he mentioned "meta data." I suspect what that is is the call detail of every call and the routing of data traffic. It may also include the actual data traffic itself, but I suspect not, because the volume of data that passes across the networks would fill more disks than anyone including the government could afford. He kept talking about looking at patterns, and again that is consistent with collecting the routing information.

NSA agents can then search this "meta data" for patterns and then get selected traffic which would be more manageable. In the case of monitoring reporters, they would take the data about who talked to who and look for leaks, calls to known targets, etc. As Keith said today, in the case of reporters, this was more of a method to make sure whistle blowers are detected or detoured from "talking." Pretty effective method to have folks keep quiet.

The next question is how long do they keep the data on line, and what do they do with "old" data. For a government whose White House can't keep track of email, perhaps they should use NSA to archive all White House mail and messages, but then.........

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