Handover too much for battered forces: US

[DoYouEverWonder]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/16/1076779908853.html

February 17, 2004

Iraqi security forces will be unable to guarantee safety after the planned transfer of sovereignty to a home-based government on June 30, some Iraqi and Western specialists have concluded. The analysis follows an daring raid in Falluja at the weekend in which at least 27 people died.

"The Iraqi security forces, brave as they are, and beaten and attacked as they are, are not going to be ready by July 1," the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, Paul Bremer, told CNN on Sunday. "So there will have to be an international presence here after the sovereign government comes into power."

<snip>

"It is so evident that they are nowhere close to being able to handle their own security," an occupation official said on condition of anonymity. "Everyone has rushed to prepare them for July 1 . . . they're trying to put a Band-Aid on something, rather than doing the surgery."

<snip>

"This was something put together by people with knowledge of small-unit tactics," a US official said. "It was a complex, well co-ordinated attack. This would not be the same tactics that al-Qaeda would employ. These are military tactics." This suggests former members of the Iraqi military might have participated.



Someone in Iraq just upped the anti with this attack in Fallujah. It seems that the powers that be are just a little freaked out by this one. Too bad none of them wanted to listen to us last year before Bu$h dragged us into this mess. How many more kids are going to have to die just so Bu$h could prove to the world how powerful he thought he was?

[Aidoneus]

1. a predictable excuse for what was openly planned all along

They had hoped to change the name that the US occupation was referred to in that time and turn the visible aspect over to puppet agents, as the British Empire had previously in their occupation and colonization of Iraq, but are apparently finding out how badly that will work out..

[Tom Kitten]

6. Looks like we're in there for the long haul...

Thanks, ex-governor Bush! This little adventure had nothing to do with the "war on terror" and now we're going to be there for the next 5-10 years! Only today they admitted the attacks come not from "foreign agents" (never said where, hell they don't know) but from Iraqi nationals...So, great! We get the envious role of keeping a three-sided civil war from happening (or escalating, who knows? Our intelligence seems to not know who is doing what here)...

We have such bloody bone-headed stooges in power pursuing their own insane agenda for...what, exactly? Ridding the world of terra?

Incompetent bastards, all of them...I'm so disgusted...Not as many Americans might die as in Vietnam, but this is going to be much worse, I'm afraid... Bush gambled on deceit, outright lies, and "patriotic" jingoism to put us there in the first place...Without having a clue as to what the possible outcome might entail... Our resources and manpower are being taxed to the limit by this maladministration in support of their agenda for a "New American Century" and there is no end in sight...

Sooner or later something's gotta give...Everyday people are talking wherever I go or listen...Openly or under muttered breath...This gives me hope that we can avoid what our current crop of leaders have in store for us.

[Aidoneus]

8. Re: the "foreign agents" line..

There were two contradicting versions of the story put to the media. One faction of occupation and puppet agents claimed that Iranians were found among the dead, and that police heard Persian spoken during the raid. Another faction claimed to the press that Lebanese fighters were found among the dead.

As usual, no proof was offered to support either variation of the suggestion, and Bremer's people are apparently not even trying to be plausible anymore. Military officials serving under Bremer's occupation authority contradict this and instead suggest the obvious, that it was fighters from local groups that fought to free the prisoners being held.

Interestingly, some local residents seem to think it was people from outside the city that were responsible, one such suggestion they had in mind was the Badr Corps (SAIRI's armed wing, which serves on the puppet governing council). Apparently, those claiming to represent local resistance groups have been distributing leaflets calling for a halt to attacks on collaborators in the police and army.

[Tom Kitten]

10. stupid (or merely ignorant) question I ask here...

If rebels attack and run off, uncaptured...or if they blow themselves, and many others, up...How are we to distinguish whether or not they are Iraqi, or Syrian, or Lebanese, or Jordanian, or Saudi, or Egyptian? I'm thinking they don't carry passports or visas with them...Can anybody please figure out this mess and explain it to me in a plausible manner?

[Aidoneus]

11. There isn't a plausible answer

I suppose on a rare occasion there may be a passport, but otherwise it is based on whatever the propaganda needs require.

[jmcgowanjm]

14. occam's razor-the most simple arguement is the best one

There are 50000 Special Republican Guards trained by the
Russian SpezNaz Commandos in Asymetric/4th
Generation Warfare.

These forces control 85% of Iraq. They only acquire
the insurgents (US or quislings) when outcome is
reasonably certain.

The attack in Fallujah followed the "touching" of Abizaid.
It was a professional military operation. People
were warned not to open their shops that day. One 4 man unit
held back reinforcements as the POWs were released (by
another 4 man unit), then gave them cover as they exfiltrated.

Oh, and the roadside bombings are
"underneath road in culvert"
bombings. No amount of armour can protect. Radio
controlled from 3 miles away so counterinsurgency
forces are not compromised.

It's worse than Vietnam and because we have to have the
oil we can't leave, yet by the end of March we won't be
able to pay to stay.

So look for major distraction by then.

[Dhalgren]

20. This is very interesting.

The idea that most of the country is in the hands of the former army and that is why the attacks seem so concentrated - the attacks aren't concentrated, the US forces are concentrated. The attacks come to where the US forces are. The broad hinderland is under the control of "other" forces, so what does "elections" of any stripe have to do with anything? The quislings can't control security, because they can't control the country. Very interesting line of inquiry.

[Just Me]

2. Dubya,...you are screwed!!!!

And so is your whole arrogant, greedy, power-grabbin' cabal!!!

And, I am going to tell you ALL one thing: NONE OF YOU ARE GETTIN' YOUR GREEDY LITTLE PAWS ON THE IRAQI'S OIL!!! You freakin' stingy, crappy bullies!!!

I am gonna spend the rest of my life pissing on your arrogance, not because I am mean or cruel or stingy; but,...because YOU DESERVE IT!!!

How's THAT for justice!!!

This administration STINKS!!!

[JPace]

5. There now.....

didn't that feel good?
A little venting here and there is so therapeutic.

[Just Me]

15. Yup,...venting anger at the neocon cabal from time to time is positively

REFRESHING :D

[reprobate]

22. And good for your mental health

[KeepItReal]

3. The "handover" is a token gesture. We ain't leavin'...

"U.S. troops will remain in Iraq long after Iraqis have taken over day-to-day operations of their country, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Thursday. However, he refused to estimate how long and how many that would be.
"While it is our intention to withdraw relatively rapidly from Iraqi political life and day-to-day decisions, we will remain in Iraq as an essential security force for as long as it takes," Wolfowitz said.

"The problem is it's very difficult to predict that," he said, in a tense exchange with Delaware Democrat Sen. Joseph Biden.

Biden opened the hearing with a contentious challenge: that the peacekeeping deployment in Iraq is going to be longer and the reconstruction more costly than any other overseas commitment the United States has.

"When are you going to tell the American people that?" Biden asked Wolfowitz, who was one of the main champions inside the administration of the war.

"I don't know how many forces are going to be needed two years from now," Wolfowitz said, refusing to be pinned down. "

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/22/204250.shtml

[daleo]

4. Looks like Viet Nam, if Bush has his way

It seems as if the U.S. military will not leave unless they are forced to, at least if the BFEE remains in power. Should Kerry win, I hope he remembers how he felt about the futility of Viet Nam shortly after he returned, and doesn't get caught up in some "Peace with Honor" fantasy, that will just drag out the pain for everyone.

[Tom Kitten]

9. Unfortunately

We caused this big mess, it is our moral obligation to remain until some type of order is restored. We were the catylyst that caused this...The thing is we were very ill-prepared for the follow-up once we got rid of Sadaam...The repercussions of pulling out are too big. Think of the break-up of Yugoslavia...Well, maybe Sadaam was kind of like Tito, keeping a diverse nation in line through oppression...In absolutely NO way do I defend the tyrant, but we should have known this shit would happen once the tyrant was gone...Only this time we plunged head-first into a situation we are almost totally ignorant about...Can anybody tell me the difference between a sunni and a shia? Who is bombing whom? Are the people of Iraq happy now? These are just a few questions I have...

[Dhalgren]

21. We have to get out!

We can pay all the reparations the World Court thinks we owe, but we have to get our troops out of the Iraqi's country! Everyone here knows that sooner or later we will tuck tail and run - there'll be people hangin' off of the helicopters and the quislings will be rounded up. We all know this! Let's do this sooner, rather than later! Turn this mess over to the UN and the Arab League and anyone the hell else who wants to help and get the US out! Each day we stay makes the situation worse, not better - not ever better!

[diamond14]

16. for Vietnam, Congress finally decided to CHOKE OFF the money

it was a hell of a fight between the pentagoon and Congress...and finally, with lots of pressure from voters...the pentagoon lost....


it is VERY IMPORTANT that YOU write/call/email/fax YOUR congressional representatives TODAY, and let them know that you want them to STOP FUNDING THE PENTAGOON'S WAR....

because the more money the pentagoon gets...the more WAR you will get...WAR is their only product....


look here to see the "cost of the WAR on Iraq" compared to pre-school, kid's health, public education, college scholarships, and public housing....this is a reality check...contact your congressional rep TODAY....
http://www.costofwar.com/

[kskiska]

7. From last week's Time (2/16)

(snip)

The stakes are only growing as the situation in Iraq worsens. On Tuesday U.N. Secretary-General Annan was at the White House, being fed a venison chop and fruit-tart soufflé, when he was asked ever so politely whether he could just take the whole Iraq mess off the U.S.'s hands. Bush is sticking to his July 1 deadline for transferring power to the Iraqis through a complex scheme of 18 regional caucuses—a plan hatched in November without the U.N. in the room. But Shi'ites are holding out for direct elections, and the Iraqi Governing Council suggests that it expand from 25 to 125 members so it could stay around a while longer, though the likelihood of the Council suddenly being able to agree on anything would probably not be enhanced by inflating it fivefold.

(Archived material – must be subscriber)
http://www.time.com/time/subscriber/covers/1101040216/story3.html

[nolabels]

12. We all live in this world, and it has many different colors and flavors.

This story really makes me wonder what's going on over there. Something is fishy, would be my guess.

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=3006
Laughing at Occupation
by Leilah Nadir
February 11th, 2004
(snip)
"Let me tell you something about the soldiers. When they first came to Baghdad, they were eating very boring bad food, rice that they would just throw away. But then they start to discover how delicious is our Iraqi food. They start eating at the kebab stands and drinking our lovely Iraqi tea. We don't make it with teabags you know. So they come here to save us, and they start by eating all our food." He laughs uproariously again. "And they use all our Internet cafes. The one I go to is always full of soldiers writing to America, so it is difficult for us to get a chance."

He felt sorry for the soldiers in the summer as it was so hot in Baghdad, 50 -55 degrees Celsius. "Their faces were so red like tomatoes and they had these small tanks on their backs and a little tube coming out and they were drinking water from it all day. Just drinking water all the time, but I don' t think it helped them. They were still hot."

"All the old Iraqi women cannot believe their eyes when they see a hummer full of American soldiers and some of them are women. They think it is so strange to see a woman holding a weapon, a woman soldier. They are thinking, where do these women sleep? Wash? Eat? They just don't understand how the soldiers live so close together."

"It is still like a strange dream when I see the American soldiers at a checkpoint. They don't understand Iraqi culture, the Muslim culture. Even though our family is Christian, we respect Islam because it is a Muslim country. I mean, even my daughter respects Ramadan. She won't eat her sandwich while her classmates are not eating anything all day." He points out that the Americans search women at the checkpoints and this is against the culture. No Iraqi man would let another man so near his wife. "Now they are starting to have women soldiers checking our wives at the checkpoints which is much better."
(snip)

Peace breaking out even with people they want to make war with, what could be better :hi:

[PsychoDad]

18. Governments wage war....

Most people would rather live in peace with their neighbor. Muslim, Christian, American, Iraqi, Just terms... human beings have so much more in common than they have differances.
Love of family, laughter, food, warmth and curiosity are some of the things that remind us that we are all part of a human family.

Peace comes when we learn to embrace our neighbor, try to understand them, and respect the differances. :hi:

Asalaam alikum..Peace be upon you.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. And with you too.

But why is this concept so hard for our leaders to figure out? Especially the ones that like to proclaim their christianity so publicly and continuely try to shove their version of it down our throats?

[Crunchy Frog]

13. Gosh, and who could possibly

have predicted this?

[Jacobin]

17. Ah yes, the Iraqization of Iraq.....

somehow this exit ploy sounds familiar and will be the death knell of the occupation.

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Right, the US handing over control Iraq (oil)

Forget it.
Iraq, the 51st state. When are they going to grant the good people of Iraq full US citizenship?