50% chance of depression in US

[JCMach1]

Source: Bloomberg per Gulf News

Bloomberg
Published: December 20, 2008, 22:40

San Francisco: The US economy has a 50 per cent chance of falling into a depression during the next three years, said Roger Farmer, a member of the National Bureau of Economic Research's economic fluctuations and growth programme."There's a significant probability things will get worse," Farmer, 53, said during a phone interview Friday. "We're certainly not at the end of the recession and things are getting worse."

A drop in the Conference Board's index of leading indicators, released Thursday, underscores econo-mists' expectations that the recession will be the longest in the postwar era as banks restrict credit, home and stock values plunge, and job losses mount. Farmer said he is predicting the US recession will last at least another year. "Everything depends on business confidence, and what I see is declining confidence," said Farmer, who is also graduate vice-chair of the Economics Department of the University of California at Los Angeles.

The loss of confidence is leading households and companies to undervalue assets, which is hurting consumer spending and investment, he said. A government fiscal stimulus programme will have a "questionable" immediate effect on consumption and financial markets, Farmer said.

Instead, he said he supports the idea of letting the Federal Reserve or government step into the stock market by buying indexed securities such as those linked to the Standard & Poor's 500 Index...

Read more: http://gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10268818.html

[XemaSab]

1. Hell, I'm depressed just reading this

:(

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. Me too.

Let's drink. :beer:

[BadGimp]

12. way ahead of ya

[Pirate Smile]

2. F@#$!

"So how can we tell the difference between a recession and a depression? A good rule of thumb for determining the difference between a recession and a depression is to look at the changes in GNP. A depression is any economic downturn where real GDP declines by more than 10 percent. A recession is an economic downturn that is less severe."

http://economics.about.com/cs/businesscycles/a/depressions_2.htm

[Ex Lurker]

11. A recession is when your neighbor loses his job

a depression is when you lose yours.

[PassingFair]

68. And a REAL CRISIS is when...

your WIFE loses HERS.

[SOS]

73. Darn tootin'!

My wife lost her fantastic job at an ad agency. The bosses wanted to "streamline operations to maximize upside potential of equity shares".

The only thing we have left now is a touch of schadenfreude.
Since she was "downsized" their stinking stock price fell by 60%.

Too bad schadenfruede doesn't replace our retirement fund, health insurance and savings, all of which are gone.

[PassingFair]

78. My husband and I ran our own small agency for over 15 years...

it started going south about 8 years ago...

I had to get a "real job" in the corpo world
to pay the rent and the health insurance.

Now THAT is looking shaky, and my husband
has remained under-employed as a freelance
artist...

[progressoid]

86. It's always a bad sign when advertising starts to wane.

I too work within the ad/marking field and it's been getting worse every year.

When I went solo 9 years ago, I had no idea how badly these thugs could f*&# it up.

[Selatius]

3. The NBER is a very sober organization. They are not known for alarming pronouncements.

The Fed is already approaching the situation where it will drop interest rates to 0% in a last bid to jumpstart an economy that's in a vicious downward spiral. People cut back spending on worries, and employers respond by laying off workers and cutting production. When news of the lay-offs comes out, people cut back even further, and then another round of lay-offs begins.

It becomes a vicious cycle, an epic race to the bottom. It took a visionary president, the New Deal, and ultimately massive nationwide military mobilization during World War 2 to end the last Great Depression 60 years ago.

[JCMach1]

5. Dr. Farmer also is not a tinfoil hat economist...

He does happen to be an expert on Keynes and the Great Depression... Search his name on Youtube... He posts some lectures there.

[pattmarty]

40. Well, have you been listening to the right wing bullshit lately?

They are trying to now re-write history on the whole FDR era saying that he actually extended the Depression by his policies. I guess it's the old thing of if you can't beat them, tear down their great leaders. At least we still have the great genius St Ronnie we can "pray" to when we lose our homes and run out of food.

[JCMach1]

59. It's Reagan/Thatcher/Friedman who have been proven dead wrong

not FDR...

But yes, the media is framing the crisis to the right's advantage... Any surprise there?

[pattmarty]

61. NONE!!!

[FirstLight]

4. meanwhile, there is no relief for the people, just the banks...

hell, if they gave us all the cash they had given to the banks, wouldn't we all be better off? then people could make payments on their debt, and keep in their houses for the next year or two, etc...duh! it seems so simple, but it is better for the corps to just slide the fake electronic money around from one hand to the next (shell game anyone?) and the little guy is the one out on the street...
:mad:
My friend & husband just ended up having to put their house on the market to avoid forclosure, they have till april to sell it. the bank would NOT negotiate a better payment even temporarily until the job market improved for them... and they have 5 star credit and have never been late on a payment in years - but she lost her job and he is in an industry that is really cutting back... so where do they go now? they are also in their 50's...have not a scrap of anything saved and whatever they had invested is gone too...

ya - it ain't a coincidence that a depression in the economy feels the same as in your psyche!

[antimatter98]

9. This is a financial Katrina, and the working class of US will be flattened.

Obama's stimulus package will be similar to how the government
dealt with Katrina (I'm leaving out Iraq): give huge contracts
to the private sector, and the results were: contracting companies
made huge sums, while doing very little on the ground for the
Katrina victims.

Similarly, we will see, for example in the case of 'broadband'
stimulus projects, contractors and major companies like Cisco,
Verizon, and others making most of the money, while the
people who need help will be left out, or paid so little by these
companies, that nothing will change. (There have already been
articles that say the telecoms are 'rubbing their hands together
with glee' at the thought of a 'broadband simulus' aspect to the
Obama plan.

"What you see is what you get" is the rule: The stimulus package
will take a year or more to generate any jobs other than for
the already in business corporate sector, and the jobs created will
be at minimum wage or slightly higher.

I believe many Americans are about to discover that working 20 or 30
years or more entitles them to so little help. It's like paying for
a fire insurance policy for 30 years, you have a fire the burns up
everything, and you discover that your policy has loopholes that allow
the carrier to avoid paying a dime.

Congress is in on this effort to kill off the working class.

[aquart]

16. So you know all there is to know about the stimulus package, do you?

Your statements are both outrageous and unhelpful.

But thank you for your concern.

[Donnachaidh]

32. so it's ourageous and unhelpful to speak the truth?

Jumping on a poster who is looking at the situation without rose-colored glasses is both outrageous and unhelpful, but thank you for your concern. :eyes:

[FreakinDJ]

23. That is "IF" they are allowed to break the Unions

and that is why the UAW / Big 3 loan package is so important

With the credit tightening he Big 3 can not sell cars unless they finance the loans as well. Banks are in no position or are simply not willing to make auto loans at this time.

None of the problems that exist with the Big 3 automakers is the fault of the workers nor the pension programs they were given as part of their "compensation"

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boomerbust]

37. Congress was to late

Awol finished the job Trickle Down Ronnie started.

[pattmarty]

43. I know what you're feeling, and I really, really hope you are wrong.

We'll all know soon enough. My belief is that by 6 months we will know Obama's true colors. I think ALL Liberals/Progressives are in a "wondering" phase on Obama.

[Lorien]

25. I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's troubles

and it makes me so angry! It's her tax dollars, and yours and mine that bailed out the banks, and they can't work with her to save her home??? Bullshit! There IS a class war being waged; by the mega wealthy against US, and they're winning. :grr:

[DUlover2909]

7. And the Cowboys just lost. I don't know which is worse.

Thanks.

[Hardrada]

8. A recession is when many people have to sell apples to make money.

A Depression is when you can't afford to buy them.

[Cronopio]

10. What definition of depression is he using?

Among economists, the term "depression" doesn't have a set quantifiable meaning beyond a "severe recession". A recession, on the other hand, has a quantifiable meaning. So the comment in the article that Farmer differs from Roubini in that Roubini is predicting "only" a severe recession while Farmer is predicting a depression doesn't mean much.

Farmer's suggestion of moving the Fed further out on a limb and having it buy stocks doesn't make a lot of sense. There seems to be a spreading meme going around that the Fed can singlehandedly keep the economy afloat buy throwing money at any industry that asks for it. The Fed can't do that - only the entire government can help the economy produce its way out of a recession.

It sounds to me like Farmer's getting in on the free money bandwagon.

[tama]

14. There is no "quantifiable meaning"

because economists just don't want to use the word "depression". It's too depressing for them.

But once there is depression and not just a recession, don't worry, you know it when you feel it. I've lived through one depression, the one in Nordic countries 1989-1993/94/95/etc/until now. Here in Finland the bread lines never went away, all the time they have been slowly growing until lately when they started growing fast. People que for hours only to find out that Salvation Army has run out of food.

So I guess you know and everybody else knows - feels - that US is in depression, has been for a while. I'd say since 2000. And now the rest of the world is joining. The latest consumer boom between the collapses was not just depression, it was desparation, last attempt of desparate denial. From know on it's deep downhill back to Reality. Somewhere at the bottom. Or below. Don't know where excactly, but to gain back our humanity and to find our lost souls, we must search Deep Down.

[dipsydoodle]

17. Are you saying

it's still like that in Finland even now ?

[tama]

80. Yup

What did you suppose schock therapy and then neoliberalism are all about?

[Odin2005]

72. I though a depression was defined as a 10% or ore drop in GDP.

By that measure we are damn close to being in a depression. If one goes by the real numbers (not the fake government numbers) the economy started contracting slowly in 2005 and the contraction has slowly sped up since then, with the rate of contraction suddenly accelerating about a year ago (when we "officially" went into recession).

[Cronopio]

88. That's one definition, and the one I was taught in macro class.

But some economists say that that's a severe recession and draw the line separating a recession and a depression lower. Others don't acknowledge the "depression" as a valid economic term at all. Pretty typical for economics - half of what goes on in the field is redefining definitions, often for non-scientific, propagandistic reasons.

And agreed, we are very close to a classic depression by the 10% definition.

[Cronopio]

89. "... economists just don't want to use the word "depression".'

Yep, and it's also bad for business. The placebo effect runs economies to a large extent.

"... US is in depression, has been for a while. I'd say since 2000."

Agreed again. I'd say that the US economy has effectively been in a wage recession for about that long, after a 20 year wage stagnation. The difficulty in defining a recession even in those terms is that an economy has a very complex and dynamic architecture, and different wage groups will always be experiencing entirely different economic effects. Most people know this experientially, but most economic theories don't and can't take into account the complexity in the real thing, so all you'll hear from most economists are thumbnail estimates of what's going on at any given time.

That's the biggest lesson I learned in getting my economics degree. That, despite pretenses, economics is barely a science.

[tama]

90. Neoclassical theory

certainly has nothing to do with science.

[truthisfreedom]

15. Tell me something. What's the Fed, exactly? The FRB? What's the Treasury, by comparison?

Where exactly are our tax dollars included in these schemes?

[dipsydoodle]

18. I think in a nutshell

that your government borrows money from the Fed and uses your tax money to pay the interest on the loans. Anyone agree with that ?

[BumRushDaShow]

53. The U.S. deposits your tax money into the FRB

making the FRB the govt's "bank". Incoming funds (tax revenue, $$$ from those taking out Treasury bonds, Treasury bills, etc.) and outgoing funds (tax returns, loans, payments for services provided to the gov't and to employees of the gov't, interest payments on bonds, bills, etc) transact through the FRB. Member bank institutions allocate some portion of their funds into the FRB for lending to other banks.

In every case, your tax dollars provide for the loans to others and pays interest on loans to the gov't. Interestingly, the interest rates payable to those providing loans to the gov't via the treasuries are down to almost nothing - to the point where I have read that institutions were continuing to take out short terms at almost 0% interest just to park their money into something with supposed "safety". http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/domestic-finance/debt-management/interest-rate/yield.shtml :crazy:

[dipsydoodle]

58. My tax money ?

In your dreams - I'm English. :rofl: :hi:

I thought the Fed was privately owned and so presumably you mean the bank the government uses ? http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm

[Window]

13. Gloomy forecast.

Arrrgggghhhh!

[No Elephants]

19. What a joke. That's like saying there's a 50% chance

that it snowed in Boston yesterday.

[fasttense]

20. And he still does not get it.

He sees the train coming but he doesn't know enough to get off the tracks.

The problem is demand. There is no demand for houses, large appliances, furniture, cars, vacations, stocks and anything but necessities. Now why is that?

Could it be that productivity rose but the number of people to buy the great amounts being produced has declined significantly? When credit was cheap and your house was worth something, you could compensate for your very low wages by borrowing. But as we have all found out, easy credit has gone with the last item of value a middle class family had - their home. Since homes are declining in value, who is going to lend cash strap families anything? The middle class has no more collateral to borrow on.

The solution is so simple but so out of reach to blind ideologues who have made their fortunes by justifying the greed of the uber wealthy. Putting more tax dollars into stocks and ponzi schemes will never, ever, get us out of this republicon created disastrous economy.

YOU MUST RAISE WAGES AND IN THAT WAY INCREASE DEMAND. Poor and middle class people, who have just enough money to get by, will spend any extra cash they get. Rich, uber wealthy stock holder have all the things they can possibly need. They will not buy enough more stuff to increase demand. The uber wealthy will save their money.

But this all knowing friend to the uber wealthy, Roger Farmer, wants to use the money the government takes from the poor and middle class and buy up stocks so the uber wealthy majority stock holders will be holding something of value instead of worthless paper. I guess he is hoping that the uber wealthy holding the stock will start building factories and put people to work, when they feel more secure. But we tried trickle down economics and look what we have to show for it.

Why doesn't government intervene directly and increase salaries. They should raise the minimum wage, increase government salaries and create jobs directly instead of hoping the uber rich will feel secure enough, eventually, to start creating some more crappy, low paying, jobs in China. China has just raised all the government employees (and in a communist country that is a lot of damn employees) salaries by 10%. Because they know wages drive demand.

Until the poor and middle class have enough high paying regular jobs, this economy will continue to spiral into disaster.

I wonder how long it will take Obama to realize this?

Instead our blind economists are saying take the poor and middle class's tax money and buy stock. Maybe, eventually, when the uber wealthy are feeling good again, they will trickle down on all of us - yet again.

[sendero]

44. "I wonder how long it will take Obama to realize this?"

Well, he's putting together an $800 billion stimulus package with an emphasis on creating jobs building infrastructure.

I think he gets it.

[47of74]

67. It's Bush and his band of greedy oily perverts who do not get this.

And we need to unseat as many of the GOP as possible in 2010.

[Odin2005]

74. When the rich have too much extra cash it results in economic bubble-blowing.

Which is a good reason to raise corporate and capital gains taxes by a lot nd pump that money back into the economy, fueling the demand side of the equation.

[pokercat999]

91. They could have a "two fer" raise the minimum wage to a

living wage and set a MAXIMUM wage. Pick a number anyone? ten times the living wage, a hundred times?

[Zhade]

93. I'd settle for indexing wages to inflation!

Hasn't been the case since '68...

[madrchsod]

21. there`s a 50% there won`t be a depression

let the government buy stocks instead of investing in the public good?

he sees a declining confidence so he`ll predict there will be a depression in three years...no he`ll predict it`s a 50/50 chance of a depression but next year there will be a recession.

so that 700+billions we gave to the banks to free up credit.....


another cheerleader for a wall street bail out.....

[WyoHiker]

87. But what, exactly, is in that OTHER 50?

It can't be all that great.

[nuxvomica]

22. I think the elephant in the living room is the Bush presidency

All this talk about "loss of confidence" at a time when we have the most incompetent administration in history indicates there might be a connection. If Obama can articulate some pragmatic, non-ideological policies to address this crisis, some level of confidence may return, helped by the fact that the Bushies are no longer calling the shots.

[humbled_opinion]

26. Yes, but

It appears that the media are gearing up to let Bush escape without blame for the coming Depression. No one held accountable to date. If that happens future failures will be blamed on Obama by the right wing media.

[nuxvomica]

28. If there is an uptick in the economy soon after 1/20/09...

...we'll need to push the media to be honest about it. They'll be all "historically, this always happens with an administration change" or "this is the typical honeymoon period". They'll ignore the fact that people and markets may have more confidence once this regime is out of power.

[Lorien]

27. No one in the mainstream media will ever call them out

Bush is one of the most successful thieves in history, if not THE most successful. He and his cronies stole the presidency twice, then stole a Nation (Iraq), and looted 10 Trillion dollars from the American taxpayers. Yet NO ONE in the mainstream press has anything to say about it?? Unreal.

[Baby Snooks]

41. Bubba of Arabia hasn't done too badly...

[JCMach1]

29. This is the endgame of Friedmanism, unless Obama departs from that template

his efforts will be doomed from the beginning. Time to dust off Keynes and bring in the experts like Farmer.

[nuxvomica]

50. I think Friedmanism died the day Greenspan testified

In which he expressed surprise that banks wouldn't be careful with their investors money. If it didn't die then, it should have.

[natrat]

39. dont kid yourself-people like schumer,frank,dodd,pelosi made all this possible

[nuxvomica]

49. Regardless of who's responsible...

I think the loss of confidence in the economy owes much to the loss of confidence in this regime to govern competently. Yes, there are real problems and many need to answer for them but I think the situation is worse for lack of confidence in our leadership.

[Mari333]

30. another stimulus package : end both wars n/t

[JCMach1]

34. We will not end either... Obama will keep significant troops on base in Iraq and shift

troops to Afghanistan... You think we can't win in Iraq? That chance is far less in Afghanistan.

[Mari333]

46. yes, we have to keep our defense contractors happy

and corporate america happy. the dlc cannot let them down.

[Baby Snooks]

31. Translation:

Translated this really means we have a 50% chance of surviving the depression. Even the "haves and have mores" don't have what they had.

And Congress continues to bail out the crooks and shoot the bird at their victims.

[marmar]

33. Gulp!

:beer: :scared:

[JCMach1]

35. Seriously, seriously thinking extreme measures here...

buying a safe... Saving in gold. The whole ugly scenario.

[Career Prole]

55. "Buying a safe" and "saving in gold" is the "ugly scenario"?

My friend, with all due respect, and in consideration of the genuine tales of woe heard throughout DU during these hard times...you don't know ugly.

[JCMach1]

62. It's all relative to the situation... as a kid I endured every recession

with dread... It meant my dad would get paid little or nothing for months. He worked in Custom auto restoration (original parts, show and museum level restoration). That is a luxury and money always dried up in recessions. People were happy to let their show cars sit in their storage until things improved again. In all seriousness those were the days of crock pot beans and biscuits and whatever we could grow or hunt. We would have to eat the beans until they were all gone (usually two or three days)... then, repeat the process. IT was awful and I absolutely hated beans. But, we had no choice.

I do know ugly.

I just am thankful I work in a position that is about as shielded as possible from decline.

I do worry about family and friends back home, my parents retirement (Florida is in bad shape) and much more...

[Career Prole]

71. Okay, man. You're right. I'm just sayin'...

We made out compared to you, I guess. My mom used to cut up a pack of hot dogs in the beans...and there was the tuna-rice casserole, with which it was possible to spread a small can of tuna among seven people. I have a feeling this one's going to be much worse though. I hope your folks make out okay...mine have long-since passed, for which I'm semi-grateful. This world we live in now would have been a troubling puzzle to them.

[shanti]

76. many of the people

who lived thru the the first depression as children, are now living to see another. now THAT sucks!

[Career Prole]

77. Hugely.

Some burdens are too big to be borne more than once.

[Pale Blue Dot]

36. I'd say it's close to 100%.

But why quibble?

[booksenkatz]

38. Or, as those of us in Michigan would say,

"...a depression in the rest of the US." Hell, we've had a depression here for virtually all of Bush's time in office. If the rest of you want to see your future, come to Michigan.

[Fire1]

99. Amen, to that!

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

42. 50-50 = Great Money-Making Opportunity

GREAT PROFIT OPPORTUNITY! DON'T MISS OUT!

Capitalize on the fact that the assholes still don't want you to realize how badly they've screwed you...

50% means it's an even-money bet -- Take all the stuff you can't bring with you when you're forced to move anyway, and bet "YES" -- that we will have that depression....

[lovuian]

45. I think this is a joke we are in a Depression and its

because Americans have been screwed out of their jobs
money and future

if they think they feel the anger right now wait till a year from now

[Mari333]

47. and now for something completely different

to ease the depression of the depression a wee bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8BH4M9V1N8

[outofbounds]

94. Beautiful

The roof only showing in a field of white along with many more captivating photos. Nicely done, Thank You.

[earth mom]

48. How many people in this country know the depression is already here?

:yoiks:

[sarcasmo]

51. Really going out on a limb MR. Farmer. We have been in one for at least a year here in Michigan.

Near ten percent unemployment on the books, more like twenty percent in reality.

[n2doc]

52. Ted Rail is a prophet

[JCMach1]

60. Time to throw economists under the bus... send them back to count beans

Since it is human beings who decide what an economy is anyway, let's act on humanistic principles...

[Odin2005]

75. LOL! funny yet sad. The MSM is so fucking predictable... n/t.

[ohio2007]

54. The China Syndrome

The Chinese own more than $500 billion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds, and billons more in the debt of other U.S. entities such as those held by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. And a general sense of mutually assured financial destruction keeps them from wielding that debt like a weapon: if the Chinese dumped U.S. debt on the global market, their own holdings of U.S. debt would decline in value, the U.S. economy would be damaged, ultimately harming the Chinese economy by reducing American ability to buy more Chinese goods.

[TroubleMan]

56. When they say we're in a recession it's really a depression.

We started a recession when they said "we might have recession." They just fudge the numbers to make it seem not as bad as it is.

The question really is are we going to have a depression or a great depression.

[olddad56]

57. we are in the early stages of a depression and it doesn't feel great.

[jwirr]

63. I think that he is partially right in that it will get worse because we do not

know the whole story. I am certain that *ss is holding back much of the bad news so it can be blamed on PE Obama. When reality begins to come out we not only will be worse off in real terms but also we will be more scared.

As a follower of JH Kuntsler I have been wondering if we are already suffering the effects of oil peak and global warming, not to mention overpopulation. *ss & co would be the last to tell us the truth about that since they have done nothing to prepare us - actually they have done exactly the opposite. I just reread "Lone Emergency" and I was amazed that he was telling us in 2005 so many of the things that are happening right now. If we are walking blindly into this and this depression is just the first effects SOMEONE had better tell us.

As to his solution it is no different than Paulson's.

[Eurobabe]

64. It's hitting Europe too

We know people whose companies are cutting hours. :mad: Oh, and my daughter, who works for a privately-held US toymaker was told last week that her firm will NOT be giving any raises or COLA for 2009.

[JCMach1]

65. And what about those comments from the center-right guy in Berlin," let them catch rats!"

They should probably start with him!

[bdamomma]

95. yes, whatever happens in the US does have domino effect

throughout the world. no thanks to that stupid man bush.

[JCMach1]

66. This was on the Bloomberg wire-- I am curious did any US Sunday paper pick this story up?

Or, did they deep six it...? Recently, we tend to get all the US economic news in an unfiltered way... mostly bad...

I am curious as to how the US media is trending these days... vis a vis the coverage of the economic meltdown.

[lligrd]

69. 50% Chance The Feds Will Admit We Are In A Depression

is more like it.

[Odin2005]

70. The dreaded deflationary spiral is starting.

This is gonna get really bad really fast. Congress needs to shove through the mother of all stimulus packages (I'm taking TRILLIONS of dollars) ASAP, otherwise were are gonna be like Japan in the 90s, only worse.

[dysfunctional press]

81. i fully expect there to be a multi-$$trillion "stimulus"...nothing short of it will work.

we'll be re-building and adding infrastructure coast-to-coast.

but unless we get some kind of permanent manufacturing base back- it won't mean squat.

and, oh yeah- there's probably a billion or so too many people on the planet- they're gonna have to go.

it should be fairly smooth sailing after that...at least until the environment collapses.

but it should be one helluva show for those that get to see it.

[roamer65]

79. It will be either Great Recession I or Great Depression II.

It all depends on monetary policy within the next few months.

I expect it will be halfway in-between the 1982 recession and the Great Depression. This recession/depression will probably run well into 2010 and become hyperinflationary as central banks run the printing presses to try to stop it.

[Psephos]

82. In related news, there's a 50% chance I'll get tails if I flip this penny

Did Roger Farmer predict $38 oil? Dow 8000? Lehman go bye-bye? Any one of those predictions could have made him millions.

Guess not.

This is a Black Swan event. Trying to hang numbers on it now only underscores the ignorance.

[ozone_man]

83. So he wants us to buy stocks?

Instead, he said he supports the idea of letting the Federal Reserve or government step into the stock market by buying indexed securities such as those linked to the Standard & Poor's 500 Index...

What a nit wit. Doesn't he get that the reason for the present situation was a stock market bubble in the first place? Irrational exuberance fueled by speculation under Clinton?

Pop the bubble already. Don't burden the taxpayer with more bailouts of Wall Street. Let prices reach their fair market value, which is a lot lower than they are. I remember when the Dow was 800 and it was there for a long, long time. We have to get beyond the bubble thinking, and the re-inflation of them. If the Dow was 3200 when Clinton took office, that is probably where it will go before all is done.

[glitch]

84. Wow, that's encouraging -- I actually thought the odds on Depression were higher. nt

[KakistocracyHater]

85. we're in the red-spend on jobs here, not on Chinese factories

either way we're already in debt, my primary worry is that they will continue to spend our last good dollars on rich men. We need to look at all the stuff we've imported & begin again to produce our own necessities. Home Depot-made in China, the stuff to repair our homes, our tools, our computers, possibly our health technology. X-ray machines: where are they made? Acetaminofen-made in China, the last factory outside of China I read was in France, in the city Lyon, they said they were going to close it & let China make it, "it makes sense"-to them, to me=madness.

Tear up all those houses built on floodplains & put farms there, break up mega-farms-too much potential for plant diseases, same with animal farms. Create local smoke-houses, reinstall textile factories here. Prioritize-what is most essential: medicines MUST BE SAFE, not Chinese. Same with food. A nation is only as good as its capacity to move goods around its land; restart railroads, know that for a while we'll have to operate in the red but it won't last forever. The biggest challenge is knowing what is wise & what will only accelerate our self-destruction.

[amandabeech]

97. I agree. The stimulus package would work better if those getting jobs

were to spend their disposable income on U.S. made products.

While people do buy food made in the U.S., products or portions of products are made abroad, and a good deal of the money used to purchase them goes to work overseas and not here.

Not only will we pay not only for the folly of bad mortgages and Wall Street investment "products," but for the folly of sending seemingly all of our manufacturing jobs overseas.

[Zhade]

92. Um, it's not lack of confidence, IT'S LACK OF MONEY YOU FUCKING MORONS!

We can't afford *necessities*, you dicks.

[bdamomma]

96. exactly, and the Congress is talking about raises for themselves

for what? they have not done crap.

[defendandprotect]

102. Where was that mentioned ...? Or, who "talking" ...????

[superconnected]

98. Are they kidding? The working poor can't find jobs.

[sarcasmo]

100. Working poor checking in, no jobs in Michigan.

[defendandprotect]

101. Notice ... no comments about need to RE-REGULATE capitalism ....!!!