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A Tip from Rahm? (Got Gov. Rod Blagojevich)

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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:45 PM
Original message
A Tip from Rahm? (Got Gov. Rod Blagojevich)
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 02:52 PM by Botany
Source: Politico.com

Jack Connaty, of Chicago's Fox affiliate, reported this morning:

We did receive a tip this morning that perhaps all of this came together so quickly because the Governor may
have reached out to Rahm Emanuel, the president-elect’s chief of staff, in attempting to leverage filling the
Senate seat. And it may have been Rahm Emanuel who tipped the scale and made this move as quickly as it did.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1208/A_tip_from_Rahm_.html



Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich has to be stupid.

1) He tried to strong arm the Obama people.
2) They got him on tape.
3) Does he know where the old Illinois Gov. is right now and who put him there?
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Worse, he tried to strong-arm Rahm...
Not bright... at all.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. A Tough Jewish Lawyer from Chicago ... LOL
From Wiki

Emanuel is known for his "take-no-prisoners attitude" that has earned him the nickname "Rahm-bo." Emanuel is said to have "mailed a rotten fish to a former coworker after the two parted ways." On the night after the 1996 election, "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name." However, by 2007 his close friends were saying that he has "mellowed out." Stories of his personal style have entered the popular culture, inspiring articles and websites that chronicle these and other quotes and incidents.

And this is the guy he tried to mucle?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. Bad Karma here-- Remember tough guy Spitzer
Or Plaxico "No one can cover me" Burris
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. guess he didn't see that SNL skit
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. that is so cool. thanks. lol
Cause that's EXACTLY how I think he should handle the Chief of Staff position.
Hope Rahm was taking notes.
Obama can be the 'good cop', and Rahm can be one 'very bad ass cop'.

Loving it.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Corruption is bad.
I think this is not, they messed with Rahm and so got slammed. It is Rahm is not going to be messed with, so when someone breaks the law in front of him, he will call the authorities.

See the difference.

Its not, go get um Justice, that will show them.

Its, phifft, we don't do corruption, let me make a call and show how we treat this stuff.

Just my way of looking at it.
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Randomthought Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. O/T
Interesting screen name. Skinner's software should have prevented it.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wisconsin (prisons) must really treat Governors well. We just can't keep IL govs out
of them.

This is what happens when the truly good people of Illinois decide not to run for office. Dear friends of the Land of Lincoln, aka THE Prairie State, aka the Sucker State, please press some of your GOOD people to run for Governor.

When good folks don't step up, Wisconsin, puts Corrections Officers to work.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. OK, I was no Rahm fan, DLC etc, but he has me on this one.
Good!
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Please.
He's probably USED TO going to Rahm...

No. 1) I don't believe this "story";
No. 2) If he DID go to Rahm, do you
imagine it was for the FIRST
TIME?

"Hello, Mr. Emanuel, you don't know me,
but I'm the governor of Illinois...."

:crazy:
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. You don't make sense. He wanted something from Obama. Rahmn works for Obama.
Be gone.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Rahm is the Congressman from Chicago's 5th District...
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 05:21 PM by PassingFair
It's not like they didn't "deal" with each other.

I remain...
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Roy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. You remain what? other than stupid???
To get to Obama you (anyone has to go thru Rahm)

This is why the CoS was chosen first, AND TO BE A TOUGH ENOUGH PERSON TO KEEP THE DOGS AT BAY!!!

Good job Barack.... Let the right wingers stew and hope.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Exactly. Thanks.
Couldn't have said it better.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
47. This just in.
Nice going, Flash.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. One report I read stated that this was an ongoing investigation
and that Blagojevich was being wiretapped even before the election. There may be more to this than the appointment of the senator.

It could be that Blagojevich was being wiretapped along with a lot of other prominent and not so prominent Americans including lots of Democrats.

The effort that snagged Eliot Spitzer still baffles me. Spitzer was a wealthy man who must have transferred large amounts of money on a regular basis for all kinds of reasons. Why would specific transactions that really weren't that large and, to my knowledge, not that regular, have caught the government's eye. There is more going on here than meets the eye.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Would you please enlighten this idiot on the Spitzer/Rahm thing, please?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sorry, I've posted on other threads about this and mentioned
the fact that this appears to be part of an effort to focus mostly on Democrats when this kind of crime is even more prevalent among Republicans.

As presented, the evidence against Blagojevich is pretty devastating. But we are only getting one side and we are not getting the direct quotes or the context of the quotes.

I had a professor who was also a judge. She used to remind us all the time. There are two sides to the pancake. When it comes to drawing conclusions about guilt and innocence, you have to go slow, be skeptical. If you ever look at files in a court and read the written arguments, you will find that when you read the Plaintiff's allegations, you will absolutely be convinced. "Wow. This stuff is devastating. The Defendants are real jerks." Then you read the Defendant's response, and you think. "Whew. This lawsuit has no merit whatsoever." And then you read the law and you apply it and sometimes who is right and who is wrong is easy to determine, and sometimes it's a struggle and sometimes you decide that both sides are jerks.

News reports stated that Rahm Emmanuel had blown the whistle on Blagojevich. But other reports I read suggested that the investigation of Blagojevich began long before Obama was elected. I do not know exactly when the investigation began, but the investigations of Democratic politicians in Illinois have been ongoing for years now. I wonder how it is possible with all the accusations and indictments that have already been brought down, the current governor could have been so stupid as to do or say anything that could be labeled corruption. He had to have known that he was being investigated. No way he could not have known. The reference to Emmanuel in my view is intended to relate to Blagojevich's investigation to Obama -- in a very subtle way. And my first question was whether Obama's communications have also been wiretapped. Remember how Republicans used investigations of the Clintons to disable Clinton's administration? Could that be the tactic of choice once again?

As for Spitzer, I do not condone his alleged paying for the services of a prostitute or alleged violations of banking regulations, but I think it is quite amazing considering all the phone numbers on Palfrey's telephone list, that so few D.C. types were at least embarrassed in that matter. Did they pay for the illegal services that they received in cash? or from the bank accounts they held jointly with their wives? Or from secret accounts? or from business accounts?
Somehow Spitzer's payment plan caught the eye of the feds. Did the feds never look at the canceled checks in Palfrey's case? Why would the feds have paid attention to Spitzer's bank transfers. He is a very, very rich man who probably makes weird bank transfers for all sorts of reasons -- or at least transfers that would seem weird to us.

Meanwhile, Nixon's cohorts, Cheney and the Bush family, Rumsfeld, et al. and the Reagan crooks continue to serve themselves at the public trough with impunity. Cunningham was caught, but then he was really a nobody in the world of top Republicans. And he was encroaching on the territory of more established Party loyalists. I am disgusted by the double standard here. I am disgusted that Fitzgerald did not properly investigate the Plame matter and call the real culprits who put our national security at risk before the grand jury.

I have utterly no tie to Blagojevich, no affection for him. He may be the most corrupt jerk in the country. But considering the corruption at the top of the Republican Party, I seriously doubt it. He is just a bit less sophisticated than the Republican thieves.

Trading an appointment for jobs after leaving office. Hmmm. I just have this funny feeling that you could find a lot more of that in the Republican household than in the Democratic one. Yet, the percentage of indictments for this crime (and it is a crime) seems to me to be higher among Democrats than Republicans. There is something very rotten in Illinois, but only some of it is in Chicago politics.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think it's interesting that both were brought down right after threatening
to take on the financial industry.

:tinfoilhat:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Good point.
And of course it is possible that one of Spitzer's banks turned him in or questioned his transactions.
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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. D) All of the Above
The investigation against Blago has been ongoing since before the election. It appears that he's been involved in lots of pay-to-play stuff.

Most likely, Blago did contact Rahm (or someone on the Obama team) and offer a quid-pro-quo deal for Obama's replacement preference. Either the Obama team got wind of the investigation into Blago, or they didn't want to play ball with him (or both), and pulled Obama's preference from the list, to distance Obama from the scandal.

Some on the right will most likely argue that Obama's team didn't like Blago's terms, so they pulled their preference and notified the feds of Blago's attempt to sell the senate seat. The feds in turn, then had to wrap up their investigation and come down on Blago before he could appoint Obama's replacement. Once Blago is out of the picture, this will enable Obama's team to put their preference back on the table for Senate seat.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Your post just about nailed it.
I don't agree that the Obama candidate will get the seat.

I don't think the Obama camp will get involved in any way at this point, that they will steer clear of the chicago politics for some time.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. I would like to hear about the evidence re deals he actually completed.
Sounds like he was not very successful with regard to trading favors for the Senate seat. He sounded like an amateur. Terribly naive. Those who succeed at this kind of thing are far more subtle. You don't even realize what they are asking. It's the more subtle forms of bribery that really undermine our system. And it goes on all the time at every level. Politics is about knowing people and helping them out. That is what it is. It's disgusting, but that is the way it works.

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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's my understanding from reading some of the DoJ reports
that Spitzer was being investigated in one of the partisan witch hunts that has oft occurred (illegally) with the * DoJ. Specifically, Sptizer was about to publish a rather damning piece on how the sub-prime mess was going to blow up, how the OCC changed rules re the banks with no notice, how the states had been petitioning the rep congress (2002) re banking crisis but no one would hear them. In response, OCC suddenly changed the laws re regulating/overseeing banks. No longer fell to the states, but now to the feds. And, of course, no one was watching.

So Spitzer was brought down to discredit his findings. He was arrested prior to the release of his article -- I believe it was days before.

Now, with all of that money at stake, and the corrupt DoJ being used for partisan purposes (Fineman found), it's quite difficult to come to the conclusion that this wasn't a witch hunt.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Umm Spitzer sent people to jail
for doing exactly what he was doing.

End of story for me.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. that's fine, but it isn't the end of the story
I never said what he was doing was no problem.

the question was, how did they find out? the small amount of money used...were they watching him for some reason? and the answer is yes.

It's been my experience that things are not usually simple black and white issues. Frankly, if they hadn't done what they did to him, there's a good chance attention would have been paid to the sub-prime mess earlier than it was. It was already too late to FIX things, but god knows, it didn't help.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Spitzer was also kind of a jerk
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 04:46 PM by Jake3463
Half his investigations as AG of NY were crap. Market Timing was the biggest load of nonsense ever and there was no clear law or regulation about it.

The compliance cost after he was done cost more than any cost that was happening in the markets.

He was a bully and a shake down artist and rarely found the real crooks on Wall st.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. I'm looking for the truth.
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:24 PM by CitizenPatriot
the OCC takeover combined with the politicization of the Justice Dept are the two most damaging, hidden things the * admin did in many people's opinions...because the ramifications are far reaching and these changes deconstructed our govt processes (checks and balances) as designed by the founding fathers. *note I said HIDDEN.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. We all foolishly cheered when the Special Prosecuter law
went away because of how it was used against Clinton. How stupid we look now.
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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Re: Spitzer's transactions
Supposedly, Spitzer's transactions were found from in IRS audit of "suspicious" bank transactions: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/nyregion/11inquire.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=spitzer%20bank%20audit&st=cse . I seem to recall another story how at least one transaction was flagged by a bank teller, but I could be wrong. The initial target of the investigation was suspected corruption crimes (i.e. suspected bribery), and investigators were surprised to find the funds going to a prostitution ring.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Interesting...
I hope you get a chance to read the Spitzer article - he was getting ready to blow the lid off the sub-prime disaster...It's an important read, and you can follow the facts up by googling the OCC, states, and sub-prime loans. I think Mother Jones also did an article about this -- but it was a while ago!
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Sptizer got nailed because he was blowing 10,000 a night on a hooker
If you understand Anti-Money Laundering laws you'd understand that transactions of that size are automatically flagged for review.

Spitzer was moving too large of amounts of money around to avoid being noticed.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. so you are saying that is how he was busted?
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:34 PM by CitizenPatriot
because I read in NY times that it was his phone that was wire-tapped and they caught him talking to the call girl.

from there, they realized he transported her over state lines, and paid her 1,000 an hour and shuffled his money around so it didn't look like he was paying for sex.

Why was his phone tapped prior to this?

His reputation as an aggressive pursuer of wrongdoing on Wall Street sends up a flag to me.

I never read anything about his money transactions being flagged prior to the call girl phone call...if you have, please link, as I'd like to read them.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. His phone was tapped because he was moving the money around
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:53 PM by Jake3463
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8211

I used to work for the Anti-Money Laundering Compliance Officer of a fortune 500 financial company. I was involved in helping to set up our system for SARs reporting in a small way (I sat on for learning and to help the compliance officer understand the system because I knew computers better than her). As a Govenor his transactions would be extra flagged as are all high ranking public servants (judges, senators, congressman etc)

Spitzer was so fucking dumb. He knew about the system yet his own arrogance got him caught. If he hadn't been playing games with wire transfers we would have never known about the hookers.

Incidently I could give a shit less about him seeing a hooker as long as the hooker wasn't a trafficed person. It's only the fact that he deprived people of liberty for doing something he obviously had no problem doing himself.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. very interesting -- thank you
I personally couldn't care less if a politician wants to see a prostitute -- but the hypocrisy is a problem and in general, it doesn't speak well of their character because out of necessity, they're lying about it.

Interesting job you have:-)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I left Financial Services
I deal with Health Care fraud now...but yes it was interesting work.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
49. If you believe the Bush Admin version of how and why Spitzer got caught as he was about to expose
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 08:23 AM by No Elephants
Bushco's role in the approaching financial disaster, fine.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. I'm sorry I have experience in this sort of thing
and understand how money laundering monitoring works and am unwilling to jump on your conspiracy theory over this.

A conspiracy makes no sense. The problem was already occuring when Spitzer got busted. There was no way to stop it at that point in time. The only thing Spitzer would have accomplished would have been to speed up the stock market crash to April instead of September/October.
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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
57. Wire-tapped because of transactions
According to the article to which I linked above, the wiretap was obtained after his transactions had been flagged and found. The investigators were suspecting the transactions were from bribery/money laundering. They were quite surprised to discover the prostitution and interstate transport.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. The article was February 14th...
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. me, too.
His article was most illuminating-- yes, that is the one. I found it when I was studying up on the highly suspect goings on at the OCC. This was no coincidence from what I've read about the DoJ investigations as well. Thanks for the link:-)

I'd love to read a book by him.

Thanks! :hi: :hi: :hi:

here's a snip from Spitzer's article for anyone who is interested -- a must read if you really want to understand what's been going on in the last 8 years, who profited, and just how long they knew about the looming disaster:

.....

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York's, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices...

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge? As Americans are now painfully aware, with hundreds of thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure and our markets reeling, the answer is a resounding no.

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

Let me explain: The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Sorry
Spitzer prosecuted people for the activity he engaged in. He sent people to jail for something he himself was doing. It's not his action itself its the punishing others for doing something he himself was involved in. He deprived people of liberty for an activity he had no problem engaging in himself. The arrogance and hypocrisy involved in that makes me believe he got off light. If he hadn't prosecuted prostitution cases I'd be for him still being Govenor.

As for Blago. They have tapes. Unless the tapes are proven to be forgeries than I'm going to have to side with the government.

While Bush may be using the justice dept to go after some democrats...if the democrats kept their noses a little more clean we'd be better able to call him out on that. In these two cases...the people investigated did not belong in high office.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. There is corruption.....
and then there is corruption. There is the corporate/government crime like the Enron's and the Justice System that is loathe to punish corporate crime, and then there are Spitzer's/Jim McGreevey's, and then the likes of Blagojevich somewhere in the middle.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783.html
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. It's relatively easy to bring charges against a guy like Blagojevich
He thinks and talks in brutal language. It will be probably be easy to get a jury to convict him.

Then you take a guy like Bush who was probably the most corrupt president ever giving no-bid contracts to Halliburton. The list is so long you just can't even count all the wrongs. Going to war without any real reason. It's unbelievable.


But he gets on TV and offers preposterous explanations for his conduct -- speaks in relatively polite language -- and is allowed to get by with having raped the country -- having overseen the theft of the treasury -- and having finished it off with the bail-out of his pals in the banks who were, with the help of Paulson, able to make away with the money without oversight in spite of the attempts of Congress to control the hand-outs.

Blagojevich may be a horrible guy, but more important he is a wonderful distraction from the real criminal conduct of the Bush administration some of which is going on right now.

Blagojevich talked about getting something for appointing someone of his choice to the Senate. He did not yet do it. This is a conspiracy to commit an unlawful act. He did not actually receive anything in exchange for an appointment to the Senate. There is probably more, but the attempt to extort favors for the Senate appointment did not go very far.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Bush getting away with what he got away with is the House and Senate's fault
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 07:23 PM by Jake3463
He controls Justice and there is no longer a Special Prosecuter law thanks to Kenneth Star's witch hunt.

If we want to blame someone for Bush...we need to look no further than our congress because they let him get away with it..
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. It's everyone's fault.....
..especially since 'we the people' abdicate control to so few. We elect them and then expect them to do the 'right thing'. But it's like leaving an open cash register in a dark ally and expecting no one to take from the till. It is 'business as usual', and I can't imagine how it will change without some kind of a populace movement. Can you?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Yeah..our criminal justice system..
is amazing...and how 'we the people' look at crime is too. Corporations get fined for polluting our air, water and making millions doing it, and are actually a major contributor to street crime... while possession of drugs can get you 10 years. From time to time I pull out "The Rich and the Super-rich" by Ferdinand Lundberg. It is available for free down-load here because of it's copyright expiration. I hope no one minds my posting some of it, it is so appropriate..

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/0303socialcriticism.html


White collar crime, as Sutherland makes clear, is far more costly than crimes customarily regarded as constituting the "crime problem." 28 The crimes committed mostly by the propertied and wealthy in the course of managing their property include embezzlement; most big fraud; restraint of trade; misrepresentation in advertising and in the sale of securities; infringements of patents, trademarks and copyrights; industrial espionage; illegal labor practices; violations of war regulations; violation of trust; secret rebates and kickbacks; commercial and political bribery; wash sales; misleading balance sheets; false claims; dilution of products; prohibited forms of monopoly; income-tax falsification; adulteration of food and drugs; padding of expense accounts; use of substandard materials; rigging markets; price-fixing; mislabeling; false weights and measurements; internal corporate manipulation, etc., etc. Except for tax fraud the ordinary man is never in a position to commit these crimes.

A distinction between most white collar crime and most ordinary crime is that the white collar criminal does not usually make use of violence; he depends chiefly on stealth, deceit or conspiracy. In the case of illegal labor practices, however, he does often through agents employ violence leading to death of workers. And there may be violent, even fatal, reactions to some of its nonviolent forms, such as the consequence of adulteration or improper preparation of foods and drugs.

The "white collar criminals, however, are by far the most dangerous to society of any type of criminals from the point of view of effects on private property and social institutions." 29 For their predations gradually tend to undermine public morale and spread social disorganization. 30 Large-scale stock swindles, bank manipulations and food and drug adulteration administer particularly convulsive shocks to broad segments of the populace. The volume of total violations, much of it officially unchallenged, leads to a spreading mood of public cynicism and more and more rank-and-file lawbreaking. It is finally echoed in the statement: "There's one law for the rich and another law for the poor." Government itself stands impugned. The stage is set for anarchy, sometimes emerging in riots.

An equally grave consequence, which Sutherland does not notice but upon which I shall later touch, is that the attempt to gloss over, conceal, minimize and apologize for white collar crime in general and in specific cases trammels the channels of public communication, undermines the terms of public debate and clouds the critical faculties even of many scholars.

The laws relating to white collar crime, as Sutherland remarks, tend to "conceal the criminality of the behavior" and thus do not reinforce the public mores as do other laws. 31

Sutherland surveyed the laws and took note of those instances in which white collar crime is explicitly stated to be crime and those where it is only implicitly indicated. White collar crimes are committed by individuals and by corporations, mostly the latter as the transmission mechanisms of widespread illegal planning. They are committed against a small number of persons in a particular occupation or against the general public; it is rarely a case of individual versus individual. Individuals only commit such white collar crimes as embezzlement and fraud, and when they do they come under statutes clearly labeled criminal.
---------------------------------------------------

He took the seventy largest nonfinancial corporations as given on two lists, that of Berle and Means in The Modern Corporation and Private Property (1933) and that of the Senate Temporary National Economic Committee (1938). He then excluded from these lists public utility corporations (he examined fifteen power and light companies separately) and the corporations in one other industry. Left with sixty-eight corporations, he added two that appeared on the list of 1938 and not on the list of 1929. It was a list representative of the cream of corporate society, the elite. 35

The average life of these corporations was forty-five years. Their criminal histories were traced through official records, which Sutherland names.

He found a total of 980 decisions against these corporations, with a maximum of 50 for one and an average per corporation of 14.0. No fewer than 60 (or almost all) had decisions against them for restraining trade, 53 for infringements, 44 for unfair labor practices, 43 for a variety of offenses, 28 for misrepresentation in advertising and 26 for rebates. In all there were 307 adverse decisions on restraining trade, 97 on misrepresentation, 222 on infringement, 158 on unfair labor practices, 66 on rebates and 130 on other cases.

One hundred and fifty-eight of these decisions were entered in criminal court, 296 were in civil court, 129 were in equity court, 361 were by commission order, 25 were by commission confiscation and 11 were by commission settlement.

Even if the analysis had been limited to explicit criminal jurisdiction, 60 per cent of the corporations (or 42), with an average of four convictions each, had experienced that particularly stigmatic jurisdiction. As Sutherland points out, in many states persons with four convictions are defined as habitual criminals or "repeaters." Applying this concept to corporations, on the average at least 60 per cent of the leading corporations are habitual criminals.

Few cases initiated after 1944 are included in the Sutherland study, and the author warns that his work does not include all violations that have taken place because not all administrations were vigorous in enforcing the law and not all cases were systematically recorded. In general, there was lax enforcement under Republican Administrations--only 40 per cent of the cases from 1900 to 1944 date from prior to 1934--and more alert enforcement under Democratic Administrations. The most serious attempts at enforcement occurred under the New Deal, although the bulk of the laws had been on the books for many decades. One gets some insight here into reasons for the pre-Johnsonian enthusiasm of the corporate world for the foot-dragging Republican Party as well as some understanding of the quid pro quo for heavy national campaign contributions.

Of these seventy corporations, Sutherland found, thirty were either illegitimate in origin or began illegal activities immediately thereafter. Eight others, he found, were "probably" illegal in origin or in beginning policies. The finding of original illegitimacy was made with respect to twenty-one corporations in formal court decisions, by "other historical evidence" in the other cases.
-----------------------------------------

In the case of white collar crimes of corporations, if any individual is punished (usually none is) it is only one or a very few. The authorities do not dig pertinaciously with a view to ferreting out every last person who had anything to do with the case. But, as Sutherland points out, it is different with crimes of the lower classes. In kidnapping, for example, the FBI, in addition to seizing the kidnappers, flushes to the surface anyone who (1) rented them quarters to conceal the kidnapped person or to hide out in; (2) acted as unwitting agents for them in conveying messages or collecting ransom; (3) transported them; (4) in any way innocently gave them aid and assistance; or (5) was a witness to any of these separate acts. The government men do such a splendid job that almost everyone except the obstetricians who brought the various parties into the world are brought before the bar, where the aroused judge "breaks the book over their heads" in the course of sentencing. Sovereignty, it turns out after all, is not to be trifled with.
It may be argued that kidnapping, which resorts to violence, is a more serious crime than bribing a judge. With this I would disagree. Gravely serious though kidnapping is, its commission strikes directly at only a few, and in most cases involves comparatively small sums--even though they seem large to the ordinary man. But bribing a judge--and in the Manton case far more than any known kidnap ransom was at stake--strikes at a very broad public and, indeed, at the foundations of social institutions in general. It is subversive in the deepest and truest sense.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. I don't believe that he tried to shake down Rahm.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
54. this has been an ongoing investigation- the senate stuff just fell into their laps.
blago has only had a senate seat to sell for a little over a month...the investigation is more like 3 years old.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Rahm Source: Story That He Tipped Off Feds To Blago Is False
By Greg Sargent - December 9, 2008, 5:11PM

A source close to Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel is denying reports that Rahm tipped off the Feds to Blagojevich's alleged efforts to sell Obama's Senate seat.

The rumors to this effect have been flying all afternoon, kicked off by a local Fox reporter in Chicago who claimed that he'd received a "tip" that Blago had reached out to Rahm to "leverage" filling Obama's Senate seat.

"It may have been Rahm Emanuel who tipped the scale and made this move as quickly as it did," the reporter said.

But a source close to Rahm emails us that "it's not true," adding that the story is the "result of some overzealous reporting" ...

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/rahm_source_story_that_he_tipp.php

Seems to be the usual rightwing huff-n-puff. Why would anybody believe Politico?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Of course it's not true. rahm's used to welcoming corruption.
He is a DLCer, after all.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. That the claim is based on an anonymous tip to a Fox reporter provides a good cause for doubt
GOP links Obama to Blagojevich; Emanuel rumored to be whistleblower
By Paul Schmelzer 12/9/08 1:09 PM
... A reporter at a Fox affiliate in Chicago says he received a tip that Rahm Emanuel .. blew the whistle on the Democratic governor. Video of reporter Jack Conaty .. after the jump ... http://minnesotaindependent.com/category/blog
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ryanmuegge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. Rahm and Blagojevich are both disgusting thugs who are sorry excueses for Democrats.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
48. Well, that confirms it.
It's been speculated about the state of the mental health of Gov. Blagojevich, vis a vis delusions of grandeur. Thinking he could take on Rahm Emanuel and win pretty much seals that diagnosis.

Wow. Just wow. The more I hear about this guy...just. wow.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
50. Blago tried to shake down the President Elect of the United States for a
Cabinet position while knowing he was under investigation? And he announced in public that everyone was free to tap his calls? AFAI can tell, these are good grounds for an insanity defense.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
55.  I'm having a hard time with what this has become.
He ran as a reformer and I had high hopes for him. He just has to resign and he better hope he doesn't go to jail.
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BanTheGOP Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. If the source is FOX...
...then consider the report just as if Karl Rove wrote the copy himself.
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