Evangelicals warn against Romney on ticket

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Washington Times

Prominent evangelical leaders are warning Sen. John McCain against picking former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney as his running mate, saying their troops will abandon the Republican ticket on Election Day if that happens.

They say Mr. Romney lacks trust on issues such as outlawing abortion and opposing same-sex marriage and because he is a Mormon. Opposition is particularly powerful among those who supported former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in the Republican presidential primaries earlier this year.

"McCain and Romney would be like oil and water," said evangelical novelist Tim LaHaye, who supported Mr. Huckabee. "We aren't against Mormonism, but Romney is not a thoroughgoing evangelical and his flip-flopping on issues is understandable in a liberal state like Massachusetts, but our people won't understand that."

The Rev. Rob McCoy, pastor of Calvary Chapel in Thousand Oaks, Calif., who speaks at evangelical events across the country, told The Washington Times, "I will vote for McCain unless he does one thing. You know what that is? If he puts Romney on the ticket as veep.

"It will alienate the entire evangelical community - 62 million self-professing evangelicals in this country, half of them registered to vote, are going to be deeply saddened," Mr. McCoy added.



Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/29/evangelicals-warn-against-mccain-romney-ticket/

[The Stranger]

1. You gotta love it.

LaHaye is such a bigot, and that damned fool Romney, having to suck up to a bigot and still get thrown under the bus. Let them take each other down.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[IndianaGreen]

39. This intolerance among bigots is shocking, shocking!

What will they do next, re-start the Inquisition against those less "Christian" than themselves?

[TechBear_Seattle]

44. What do you mean restart?

Or has it become moribund in the US? My understanding is that the American Inquisition started back in the Reagan Era.

[BadgerKid]

2. That means 20% of US is evangelical.

Didn't know it was so high. Who's the other 10% of die-hard Republics?

[corkhead]

30. I think you will find your answer here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3698175&mesg_id=3698175

[jaysunb]

3. 20 % of the country is an Evangelical ???

62 million seems to be an awfully high number. :shrug:

[BadgerKid]

6. .

62 million / 304.7 million = 0.20

I'm just using the quoted number :shrug:

Edit: typo

[ArbustoBuster]

33. The number which that Evangelical priest quotes has recently been debunked.

There were several threads on DU about a researcher who looked into the claimed number of Evangelicals in the United States, and she determined that Evangelicals will claim people who have moved on to other churches (and who are therefore counted twice - once by the old church and once by the new one), and will count people who don't go to services any more, and will count people who have gone on to other faiths. The number is bogus. There are a lot fewer Evangelicals than the Evangelicals would like the rest of us to believe. They count on that inflated number to prop up what influence they have on politics.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

61. The twenty percent figure is consistent with others

including the http://www.isreligion.org/research/surveysofreligion/surveysofreligion.pdf">Baylor Religion Survey.

Where the pastor is probably incorrect is his assumption that half of these individuals are registered voters (how does he know?) and most assuredly incorrect is in the assumption that all of these voters will vote Republican (they won't -- Kerry got nearly a quarter of these voters). The total number of voters in play here is probably something on the order of 15 million. A sizeable number, but they're concentrated in the most heavily Red States -- which is pretty much what makes them Red States to begin with.

And given the racist, backwood country fuck nature of this constituency, they'll vote for an African American right after the winged monkeys fly out my butt.

[madeline_con]

40. That figure probably includes whole families, not just voters. n/t

[Politicalboi]

4. Well the Evangelical

Community is alienated from the rest of us. At least here at DU they are. I hope they eat each other alive. And I hope MaGoo picks Clark Griswald (Romney) for his VP.

[DUlover2909]

5. Extra! Extra! Loonies reject fellow loonie because he's not loonie enough!

:silly:

[ryanmuegge]

18. He's even more loonie.

[krabigirl]

47. I think they're about the same.

[ryanmuegge]

48. They're similar in some ways, but traditional Mormons have strange views about black people

Having somebody who believes Christ used to party with the Indians and black people weren't valiant warriors against Lucifer as VP is much more worrisome to me than the Rev. Wright stuff. Even if he doesn't believe these things, he hangs out with people who do or did. His religion should be used against him. I think the American public would be interested to know this stuff.

[FreeState]

58. Some minor corrections

Having somebody who believes Christ used to party with the Indians

The LDS church actually believes Christ visited every group of civilization on Earth between the time of his death and his return to heaven 40 days later.

and black people weren't valiant warriors against Lucifer

Thats actually not what use to be taught. The belief, which is no longer taught and was technically never viewed as official doctrine, was that in the pre-existence we all existed. We all had to choose wither Lucifer's plan or Christ's plan. Lucifer's plan was that we all would be forced to follow the gospel and all the glory would go to Lucifer. Christ's plan was that we would have free agency to follow the gospel and all the glory would go to God the Father. There was a vote and Jesus' plan won and all those that chose Jesus get to come down to earth to get a body and be tested, those that chose Lucifer's plan were cast out never to gain a body or hope of exaltation. <start no longer taught part> There was a group of spirits that could not make up their minds to chose one plan over the other, these are the ones that were placed on this earth without white skin </stop no longer taught part>.

[Xipe Totec]

7. We aren't against Mormonism, but Romney is not a thoroughgoing evangelical...

Ow, my brain...

[elocs]

8. I posted about this a number of time during the primaries

about how Romney would not be acceptable to evangelicals, but it seemed that most here blew off that notion. I've actually been there, done that so I know how they think and what it is all about. Like it or not, believe it or not, it is my experience that most evangelicals consider Mormonism to be a cult. The irony is that they would probably have less problem with somebody who is a Jew because at least they would not consider it to be a cult and a corruption of Christianity.

Evangelicals as a whole will not vote for a ticket with a Mormon on it. That does not mean they would vote for Obama, they just won't vote for McCain if Romney is on the ticket.

[gateley]

10. What do you think the evangelicals would do on election day if Romney does

get the VP nod?

[elocs]

11. A very good many of them would simply not vote for McCain.

They would not vote for Obama and not necessarily stay home, but they would not vote for McCain. In their eyes, Obama may be less than a perfect Christian, but he is a Christian and not a member of a cult.

[gateley]

12. So if they actually went to the polls, would they write someone in?

(I realize this is conjecture on your part, but I'm interested because of your bona fides :7)

[elocs]

16. Some might, but overall I don't think many people bother to write in a name.

You see, evangelicals look at Mormons as a cult, even is spite of their lifestyle because of scriptures like Galations 1:6-8

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ever see those tv commercials where the woman claims they have another gospel of Jesus Christ, The Book of Mormon? According to the above scripture preaching any other gospel is a big, big no-no to evangelicals and they take their scriptures very seriously. The majority will not vote for a Mormon.

[gateley]

24. Soooo...

If it was Obama/? vs McCain/Romney, they just wouldn't vote for President?

I'm trying to figure out how Romney on the ticket would help our cause.

[elocs]

28. It would help because many evangelicals would simply not vote for president,

or not vote for McCain and the next president will either be Obama or McCain. Every person who would have ordinarily have voted for the Republican candidate for president and does not, help the Democratic candidate.

This is a big deal for us because the overwhelming majority of evangelicals who vote would be inclined to vote for McCain. If McCain even lost only 25% of the evangelical vote, that would be huge.

(Oh, and if you wonder about evangelicals viewing Mormonism as a cult, just Google "Mormonism as a cult" and you will get 1.78 million hits.)

[gateley]

29. No - I don't question your claim at all

(re: evangelicals viewing Mormonism as a cult). I worked with a rabid convert to Catholicism and I found reams of PROOF on the printer that the Mormons were indeed a cult. I think that everyone who is SO invested in their belief system views every other belief system as a threat.

Okay - so they just wouldn't vote for Prez. I like the sound of that! Thanks for answering all my questions. :hi:

[elocs]

31. Certainly not all of them will refuse to vote for McCain, but every one who does not helps Obama. nt

[gateley]

34. Yep! Here's hoping for a McCain/Romney ticket!! nt

[louis-t]

17. They'd write in Pat Robertson.

[djp2]

9. Watch out for the VP

Whoever is the VP candidate will eventually be the Presidential candidate..McCain will drop out "for health reasons" just before the election, sometime in October...mark my words!

[nookiemonster]

25. It's funny.

I feel the same way.

Then again, these fuckers never fail to amaze me with their asshat hijinx.

:silly:

[Q3JR4]

37. ....

What with the cancer trying to claim him again and all.¹

:tinfoilhat:

Q3JR4.

[roody]

13. There are a lot of Baptists in this country.

They do consider Mormonism a cult. But the fundies and the Mormons share the same fears: gays, reproductive rights, social justice, outside ideas. They should support each other. I am glad that they are not!

[Critters2]

42. Not all Baptists are Fundies. Jimmy Carter is a Baptist.

So was Martin Luther King, Jr.

[roody]

54. Lucias Walker, founder of Pastors for Peace,

is a Baptist. Unfortunately, I think the social justice types are a minority in the Baptist church, the white one anyway.

[Critters2]

55. Depends on which Baptist church you're talking about.

The American Baptist Churches and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship do a lot of social justice work. My mentor, S. Mark Heim, is a Baptist and a strong proponent of Christian pacifism. Stereotypes are not necessarily the truth.

[roody]

57. I was raised in them, even being the preacher's kid.

I don't like them. I never saw a Baptist church that gave a damn about social justice. I do know they exist.

[djp2]

59. Raised Strong American Baptist

I was raised as American Baptist. Father was a Minister. I'm about as liberal as they come.

[SidneyCarton]

50. Not all Mormons are fascists either.

[LeftyMom]

56. Science. You forgot a fear of science.

Mormons fear it because DNA proves their nonsense about Native Americans being a lost tribe of Israel is bunk, and the Baptists fear it because it proves the world wasn't poofed into being 6,000 years ago by a bored deity.

[TommyO]

14. I hope that every one of Tim LaHaye's readers, and his wife's too

remember this, "but our people won't understand that."

I love how he so casually dismisses his "people" as ones who can't understand even basic concepts. I want to thank him for proving, once again, that they are condescending freaks.

[B3Nut]

49. And hypocritical as hell, too

Tim and Beverly LaHaye are apparently cozy with Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who has claimed that Jesus failed in his mission and that Moon is the new messiah and true parent yadda yadda blah blah. Beverly's "Concerned Women of America" has gotten Moon funding according to articles I've read, and Tim LaHaye has been partially bankrolled by Moon from what I've been able to find. Refusing to vote for a Mormon when you're supposedly getting cash from the Moonies is not only hypocritical, but absolutely heretical according to their own doctrines and batshit insane to boot.

[olddad56]

15. Evangelicals... talk like Christians, act like Nazis

why not just call them Christain Nazis?

[LeftyMom]

19. Fundie fight!

:woohoo:

So now McCain's cornered. He either pisses off one huge Republican constituency or the other. Either way, he is, to indulge in the technical term, fucked. Piss off the Mormons, and he loses the mountain west, where he's already looking surprisingly weak. Piss off the fundies, keeping in mind that they hate his guts and they only reason he can count on them now is that they're racist fucks, and he loses most of the rumor mill, the right wing blogosphere, the funding, and enough voters that it probably costs him a few purple states. The Morg would stay home in droves, the fundies would probably split between staying home and voting third party. In either case, he's SCREWN.

[bulloney]

26. Yeah, and the media gerbils keep hammering at how the DEMOCRATS are divided.

[longship]

20. Nutcase LaHaye needs to read Article VI of the US Constitution.

Actually it would be better if all the Republicans--nutcases all--would read the entire US Constitution.

[yurbud]

21. McCain is screwed either way: either he picks someone who alienates their base or he picks someone

who scares the shit out of undecided voters.

[jaysunb]

22. Throw a few bucks Bob Barrs way...

He's our friend these days. :rofl:

[stlsaxman]

32. He sure is- if Obama weren't the... ah hell- there's no way.....

:rofl:

[jaysunb]

36. Strategic planning, Baby....

Now, Ornithology on 2. :rofl:

[bullwinkle428]

23. Because the Mormon hierarchy has always led the fight on civil/women's rights issues?

:shrug:

[SidneyCarton]

51. Funny you should mention this

Women had the vote in Utah as early as Brigham Young's tenure as Territorial Governor. That's over 70 years before the passage of the 19th Amendment.

We are not at the forefront of progressivism, but we are also not fundie throwbacks.

[UTUSN]

27. BwahaHaHAH!1 Even KKKarl couldn't dream this up for Opposition Research!1 n/t

[Hugabear]

35. Fred Phelps for McCain's VP

They'd love him. You'd be hard pressed to find many evangelicals who hate homosexuals as much as he does.

Perhaps Michael Savage.

[lonestarnot]

41. Perfect match for old Lumpy McSame!

[Zynx]

38. Romney is a wretched candidate for McCain. Those who fear him are mistaken.

He merely looks the part, but people throughout the primaries saw through that and grew to hate him, left and right.

[bluestateguy]

43. Southern Baptists do not like Mormons

The Catholics seem to tolerate it, but the Christian conservative movement is dominated by Southern Baptists.

[bdamomma]

45. hey mc same pick romney

[krabigirl]

46. Love how it's ok for them to have issues with him being Mormon.

But if people have issues with Evangelicals in office, watch out!

[noonwitch]

52. Picking Romney would make Obama spend more money in MI and MA

Two states he might otherwise take for granted.

[Robbins]

53. Romney

He would be helpful In Mi and maybe Nevada.In MA he could have lost If he ran for reelection and he moved to the right since his 2002 election as Governor.

[noonwitch]

60. I don't see McCain winning Michigan, under any circumstances...

Except maybe if a nuke hit Detroit right before the election.

Detroit is going to get out the vote this time-voting in the city has increased each election since 2000 (the last time I voted in the city).

But Romeny on the ticket makes it a little more competitive, so Obama would have to spend more money on Michigan than he originally planned.